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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
Even when Manny isn't feeling right he still punishes better than anyone else on GAF
Nah, I think Drunk Kenny (I'm calling you this from now on. You can thank Aris!
) has the edge on me there. Except for the part where he punishes the launch punishable with jab punishes. Dammit, Kenny!GGs guys.
Hey Ricko Manny taught me this about dealing with Chistie's b+1 nonsense sense you kept letting me mix you up with them:
Every time Christie does her b+1,4 if you block both of those hits and keep holding back, the 3+4 slippery kicks will never juggle you, you'll just get hit by the first low and just get staggered slightly. And if Chrisite doe the mid extension which is b+1,4,3 that's like -12 so punish it. If she does the complete string which is b+1,4,3,3+4 I think that's even more negative so you can punish that more.
But the cool thing Manny discovered is that you can option select by by SSR after the b+1,4 and holidng block. If it's the slippery kicks you'll just eat the first low only and you won't be launched, but if it's the mid extension, your sidestep will evade them all and you float them for a juggle. And since you were playing a character like Bruce, you can deal massive damage from that!
Hey Ricko Manny taught me this about dealing with Chistie's b+1 nonsense sense you kept letting me mix you up with them:
Every time Christie does her b+1,4 if you block both of those hits and keep holding back, the 3+4 slippery kicks will never juggle you, you'll just get hit by the first low and just get staggered slightly. And if Chrisite doe the mid extension which is b+1,4,3 that's like -12 so punish it. If she does the complete string which is b+1,4,3,3+4 I think that's even more negative so you can punish that more.
But the cool thing Manny discovered is that you can option select by by SSR after the b+1,4 and holidng block. If it's the slippery kicks you'll just eat the first low only and you won't be launched, but if it's the mid extension, your sidestep will evade them all and you float them for a juggle. And since you were playing a character like Bruce, you can deal massive damage from that!
Ricko Suave
Member
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Fucken Aris, that hairy basturd!Nah, I think Drunk Kenny (I'm calling you this from now on. You can thank Aris!
I tend to do that a lot. My frame knowledge is ok at best. Sometimes I just panic and jab. I'd rather be safe. BTW Manny, what do u use to whiff punish with Marduk? I cant seem to find anything quick and mid, except for ff+2, which is high. Paul has Iron Mountain, Bruce has uf+3+4, and Feng has b+1+2. Marduk seems to lack a quick hard hitting mid. I tend to use db+2, but that's i15 frames.
BTW That 1,d+2 ssr d+2,4 hit me a few times on counter for meaty damage. I'm gunna "borrow" that. *wink*
No fucken shit? All this time I just sit there eating the mixup. So this works with everyone? That mixup scares me because it does so much damage. So the only reason I should be getting hit by this is on CH. Thanx for the heads up. Its SSR right against capos? Is it both Eddy and Christie? There seems to be some kinda disparity between Eddy and Christie's legs. I know Tiger doesnt have that string though. Can I do this against both Christie and Eddy?
Also, Bruce's CD 2 is -14. Everybody gets a free throw attempt. I doubt Marduk can get a launch. His best bet is df+4,2 or ff+2 against the wall.. Hwo can get a df+2 if I'm not mistaken. Julia can get that 2~b or whatever that move is. The one where she changes sides and then ass bumps you. His df+4, MTS 2 is duck-able on block and hit. I can either go into MTS 4 which is the low spin kick, or MTS f+1 which is the spinning elbow bind move which KND's on regular hit. He also has MTS 3(-12 to -13 depending on the spacing), which is a flying knee that is mid, easily see-able, and MTS 1,4(MTS 1 being -21on block without the 4 extension, and the 4 being -11 on block which is a h,m string and is guaranteed on CH and KND's. So on hit and block It's best to wait for the mixup, which is fairly slow. df+4,2 combos on CH.
I'm pretty sure that I got this correct. I was checking my frame data and testing this stuff before I posted. Yes, I know, I'm a nerd. But I'm ok with that.
Thanx anyway Kadey. I appreciate it very much. Thank you for always thinking about US Tekken cats. I had a lot of fun playing everyone tonight. Thanx for the knowledge.
Because knowing is half the battle....
Sadly, Marduk is lacking in that department. Both d/b+2 and d/f+1 are i16, so those are your best bets. You want to be hanging around range 1. Overall, Marduk is not as good of a whiff punisher as most of the cast. :\
Also, that 1,d+2 on block into SSR d+2,4 was me getting a little crazy. If you had attacked right after the 1,d+2 was blocked with something fast, I wouldn't have been able to sidestep it, because 1,d+2 is like -8 on block. I like to try to sneak it in every once in a while due to people hesitating with their attacking though.
Ricko Suave
Member
Thats what I I thought. I was thinking that I had the advantage. But that d+2,4 hit. I just reset. It was kinda confusing. I got hit, and I had to reset for a few seconds. That was a nice peace of gear. Although it seems very risky, its a another good tool for Marduk.
I got some I'll shit for Marduk, But damn dog. I've just been stealing your shit for a minute. Sorry Manny, but its not ur Drag that scares me. its your Duke.
I would hope so. Marduk is the one I've been playing since 5.0. I have a lot more limited experience with Drag. I just get away with a lot of d+2 spam.
Ricko Suave
Member
Good games gentlemen. I really appreciate u guys playing me and showing what I'm lacking in Tekken. I always have so much fun playing you guys.
I can defend myself against Sayah now. Your Williams... I kinda get them.
AAK... Your Hwo... Is the most annoying Korean this side of the of the pond. I cant figure him out. I just gotta be patient.
Manny, the fact that I play Marduk, the fact that when u tag him in, I am intimidated, fucks my shit up. Fuck you Manny, I hate being Intimidated.
I hope that doesnt sound mean, but like I've said. Every time I play u guys I expect to win, I expect to win every single game, but when I lose, I fucken yell like a chick.
But I appreciate u guys. Thanx for making this game fun as fuck.
I can defend myself against Sayah now. Your Williams... I kinda get them.
AAK... Your Hwo... Is the most annoying Korean this side of the of the pond. I cant figure him out. I just gotta be patient.
Manny, the fact that I play Marduk, the fact that when u tag him in, I am intimidated, fucks my shit up. Fuck you Manny, I hate being Intimidated.
I hope that doesnt sound mean, but like I've said. Every time I play u guys I expect to win, I expect to win every single game, but when I lose, I fucken yell like a chick.
But I appreciate u guys. Thanx for making this game fun as fuck.
As I posted in the other threads...
Dilly , a great tekken player/mentor really needs help financially... To be screwed by doing good stuff hurts, but at least we could help him...
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127387&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
He only needs 375 dollars as I post this. And his payment is due in the end of monday... please pray, donate, or spread the word.
Edit: I never thought of it, AAK, is it ok to post this on Avoiding the Puddle?
PS Kadey, what dimensions/resolution is your stream? I wanna try to experiment with it...
Dilly , a great tekken player/mentor really needs help financially... To be screwed by doing good stuff hurts, but at least we could help him...
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127387&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
He only needs 375 dollars as I post this. And his payment is due in the end of monday... please pray, donate, or spread the word.
Edit: I never thought of it, AAK, is it ok to post this on Avoiding the Puddle?
PS Kadey, what dimensions/resolution is your stream? I wanna try to experiment with it...
I'm not sure, I'll bring this to Aris's attention but I don't want to put it in his site. When he first approached me he did say that I was given free reigns to post news/info about Tekken on the site whenever I please. He trusted me with the keys to the website and I'd rather not betray that trust. He did delete a couple of posts I made before on the website because it wasn't relevant to Tekken news. I don't think he posted an article about when MYK needed the money to pay hospital bills or the Japan earthquake relief either so I don't know if he'll accept this.
Man, these ranks make no sense at all.
I have several green ranked dudes go against me that don't even know how to do combos. I demolish them.
Then I have a master level Lei haha stepping and dodging everything I do as Lili... and the dude's just master rank. And it isn't like the dude didn't have matches under that account either.
I have several green ranked dudes go against me that don't even know how to do combos. I demolish them.
Then I have a master level Lei haha stepping and dodging everything I do as Lili... and the dude's just master rank. And it isn't like the dude didn't have matches under that account either.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Woo had a nice fights today.
Learned few things watching Korean player Geese Howard on youtube. I always thought Pauls qcf+3+4 flying knee was useless. I mean it's Paul doing flying knee. Go for shoryuken next Paul, lol. But here I watch this player doing the knee whenever he wants without being punished, and almost no death fists. Wow. Paul flying with the knee may look hilarious but this move is actually great. Meaty damage, great hitbox that seem to stretch from down all the way up- I hit people low on the ground as well as jumping. Shit hits everywhere. Even crushes some highs. Great wall carry in tag combos, recovers fast so allows for easy demo man at the wall. Seems pretty safe too. Looks like a move thats easily punishable but it isn't. Great high wall splat move, so high,lol. Mad move, mad.
I'm flying with Pauls knee all over online looking like a total nutjob - so good XD.
Learned few things watching Korean player Geese Howard on youtube. I always thought Pauls qcf+3+4 flying knee was useless. I mean it's Paul doing flying knee. Go for shoryuken next Paul, lol. But here I watch this player doing the knee whenever he wants without being punished, and almost no death fists. Wow. Paul flying with the knee may look hilarious but this move is actually great. Meaty damage, great hitbox that seem to stretch from down all the way up- I hit people low on the ground as well as jumping. Shit hits everywhere. Even crushes some highs. Great wall carry in tag combos, recovers fast so allows for easy demo man at the wall. Seems pretty safe too. Looks like a move thats easily punishable but it isn't. Great high wall splat move, so high,lol. Mad move, mad.
I'm flying with Pauls knee all over online looking like a total nutjob - so good XD.
1280x720p.
Twitch's new page blows it up and upscales it improperly. But since it's a dual lobby, it isn't so bad from the norm since each lobby is almost it's proper scale. Of course it will look better on the old page.
I'm going to throw up some lobbies in a little while.
Twitch's new page blows it up and upscales it improperly. But since it's a dual lobby, it isn't so bad from the norm since each lobby is almost it's proper scale. Of course it will look better on the old page.
I'm going to throw up some lobbies in a little while.
I believe it's -9 on block.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Nice! Thanks!
FormallyFamicom
Member
Yeah, ranked can be pretty tough to deal with because so many good players use alt accounts or characters they haven't ranked up yet. A lot of great players don't even play ranked at all. I've run into a few Beginner ranked people in player matches that clearly had a lot of experience. I like the challenge, but it always takes me by surprise.
I'm really liking Asuka right now, especially f+2 cancel into ws1,4. Such a great tool. Not to mention her d/b+2 invincible in TR, which is great to play chicken against people with since it seems so buffed compared to TTT2. The only problem right now is I haven't put a new stick or buttons into my brawl stick, so hitting that diagonal is much tougher than I'm used to.
GGs Famicom, Like I said in the chat, great backdashing, great patience, and overall great defence. Keep that stuff up, it's a rare skill you have... BUT you weren't reaping the reward for your great defense. With great defense means that you will force your opponent to either whiff or do something unsafe. I did both of those things a million times during our matches to bait something out of you or to try and open you up and I always got away with them.
I suppose it can't hurt during our player matches to try and always go for the punish and if you screw up to string ender then try to remember which move that string ender came from. And about punishing on block, it will take a while to familiarize yourself with all the intricate frame data immediately but the rule of thumb is that when you you block an opponent's string that ends with a mid it's usually unsafe. there are exceptions like Julia's b+1,1+2; Feng's d/f+2,2; Bryan's 1,2,1; among others. But if they're safe it for surely will be negative enough to apply a free mixup on your end. and hence you should attack after them if not punish. Assuming you're playing Armor King for now you can always start punishing something you feel that's negative with jabs 1,2 or 2,1. That way in case you're wrong you're still safe. If your opponent did something you now is for surely unsafe but unsure if it's launch or not then just go with b+1,2. Very solid damage. And for super unsafe moves and whiffs just go for the Dark Upper or hopkick. Compartmentalize your punishes based on feels for now until you can quantify the exact punishes by the frame. Think of similar things with Miguel too. Hope that helps!
Also, Sayah, this is for you
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2013/6/23/ttt2-nina-bread-and-butter-combo-tutorial.html
I suppose it can't hurt during our player matches to try and always go for the punish and if you screw up to string ender then try to remember which move that string ender came from. And about punishing on block, it will take a while to familiarize yourself with all the intricate frame data immediately but the rule of thumb is that when you you block an opponent's string that ends with a mid it's usually unsafe. there are exceptions like Julia's b+1,1+2; Feng's d/f+2,2; Bryan's 1,2,1; among others. But if they're safe it for surely will be negative enough to apply a free mixup on your end. and hence you should attack after them if not punish. Assuming you're playing Armor King for now you can always start punishing something you feel that's negative with jabs 1,2 or 2,1. That way in case you're wrong you're still safe. If your opponent did something you now is for surely unsafe but unsure if it's launch or not then just go with b+1,2. Very solid damage. And for super unsafe moves and whiffs just go for the Dark Upper or hopkick. Compartmentalize your punishes based on feels for now until you can quantify the exact punishes by the frame. Think of similar things with Miguel too. Hope that helps!
Also, Sayah, this is for you
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2013/6/23/ttt2-nina-bread-and-butter-combo-tutorial.html
Ricko Suave
Member
Wrong choice of words. I didn't mean expect as in I'm better than you guys. I meant to say that I play my hardest to win every match. You guys have considerably helped me improve my game. I didn't really play online much. Never liked the randomness of the match making. I picked up some bad habits playing random people.
I know I sounded like a douche in the earlier post, sorry about that, that wasn't what I meant.
I gotta stop posting when I'm drunk...
Ricko Suave
Member
I know. I'm going to be in Vegas in a couple of weeks. My neice is having a dance competition. I gotta go and cheer for her.
I wanna make it out to EVO this year. I havent hit EVO in years. I wanna make it out, just to play you cats in real life.
I wanna make it out to EVO this year. I havent hit EVO in years. I wanna make it out, just to play you cats in real life.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Ricko Suave
Member
Gray... I scared the shit outta some lady while she was taking pictures of her kids. It wasnt my intention, but nothing is going to get in the way of my little girl hearing me and her cousin yell that she is the most awesome middle school-er on the face of the planet.
I am very loud and obnoxious, but I could give a flying fuck.
BTW, Paul's Knee is -9. I think some one mentioned that earlier. You can combo on hit with a DF, or a ff+2, 1 etc. I know you can get a f+1 into a f+1+2 for a bind, but it is ridiculously hard. The dash jab is fucken hard to hit. I've only hit it once out of 30 attempts. Actually, I've only hit it once....
GrayFoxPL
Member
Haha awesome! High five!
Oh yeah I saw those tricks in combo videos. When I tried I couldn't even combo with ff+2. I wanna follow up with deathfist one day. In like 2 months of training, lol.
What does everyone think about EVO Tekken being run only on Friday?
Great to know that he reached his goal.
Gonna head to practice soon and try this out. Never knew (never thought) I could press d/b to d/f to u/f for the WS commands.
Thanks.
DEATH;65708016 said:
Great to know that he reached his goal.
Also, Sayah, this is for you
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2013/6/23/ttt2-nina-bread-and-butter-combo-tutorial.html
Gonna head to practice soon and try this out. Never knew (never thought) I could press d/b to d/f to u/f for the WS commands.
Thanks.
FormallyFamicom
Member
If the rumored 145 (so far) entrants is to be believed then it's fair. 8th lowest entrants of the 9 games is not encouraging.
What does everyone think about EVO Tekken being run only on Friday?
Great to know that he reached his goal.
Gonna head to practice soon and try this out. Never knew (never thought) I could press d/b to d/f to u/f for the WS commands.
Thanks.
That everybody's gonna go to TFC, Filthie Cup, Kumite in Tenesee and FR. Australia's not gonna go to EVO anymore, and expect us to separate ourselves to Capcom FGC... Jaxel's ranting also might cause us, since everybody knows Tekken people don't prereg on EVO... Tekken's on anime status and this tweet is nothing but moot
I don't care if we are a small community overall anymore. All the darn drama happening around FGC made me want to puke at times... I'll rather have a small but awesome community that makes others outside want to look in...
I will be missing out on it. That's for sure. Got work on Friday. I'm not a big spectator anyway but I was hoping to catch this considering it's EVO. Definitely not going to be looking through archives later on, though.
DEATH;66091941 said:
It would make sense for more Tekken players to be focusing on Tekken specific events. I don't think it means that we're a small community. Master Cup from Japan and Final Round from here says otherwise. But yeah, EVO isn't the best platform for Tekken seeing as it's a 2D-centric tournament. Tekken was the only 3D game being represented anyway out of the nine games. And we had four 3D fighters release just last year.
I'm looking forward to more details on the Filthie Cup.
EVO has always been good to the Tekken scene. Tekken was given a lot of recognition back in EVO2K4, EVO2K5. Don't remember much from 2K6, but I know at EVO 2K7 (or I think EVO2k8) is when Wizard started calling out the Tekken community for poor attendance I believe. He was especially angry since it was the only game he had to invest a bunch of PS3's in.
But for some reason Tekken just never got popular to the level of Tekken 5 again. And then after the resurgence of Street Fighter with SF4 the popularity kept diminishing.
Oh well, It's safe to say that Tekken won't be at EVO2014.
But for some reason Tekken just never got popular to the level of Tekken 5 again. And then after the resurgence of Street Fighter with SF4 the popularity kept diminishing.
Oh well, It's safe to say that Tekken won't be at EVO2014.
Not really popularity, its more like SF4 and Marvel shouts louder... and FGC is being broadbrushed as the community that includes all fighting games don't help (since they aren't really the fighting game community, they are CAPCOM fighting game community)...
TBH Smash community not being assimilated to the "FGC" is a good thing for them. They stand out on themselves, and establish their own culture and social attitudes. Their games don't get left out.
P.S. interesting tidbit, it's said Socal at least have 20~25 people going, and if it really is 28 people like Mr. Wizard said, then only 3~8 people registered on other places? That's fishy. Either people don't preregister or there's some Illuminati stuff going on...
Tekken had and was given its fair chance to be as popular as any other game at the market. Simple fact is, people don't like the game as much or don't want to compete in it. We need to stop accusing tournament organizers or this "illuminati" nonsense. There is no conspiracy. Tekken was the 3rd announced game for EVO and was expected to be the 3rd highest game competitor wise.
I know that, but at the same time, they knew better... Look, many people surely gonna go to EVO... Looking at the word around is Injustice prereg is just around the same/just a few more, and MK also the same... Tekken should and would have better numbers than that especially EVO where many are already confirmed to come...
I think this is more to TTT2 being a "nightmare" to organize and Namco didn't give monetary support to be worth it... But at the same time other games are given the same treatment so it's more leaning to them just focusing on Capcom games more... which is understandable...
This move just made Final Round = EVO status for 3D for sure...
P.S. It could be reasoned too that TTT2 will always be hated stream wise in a Capcom-centric tourney... No matter how good the matches are, stream monsters are gonna scream "MAHVEL!!!!". Look, it happened in Final Round, which should be our EVO, and no matter how unreasonable it is, minions gonna be minions...
EVO has always had more entrants for Tekken compared to Final Round, this is the first year this didn't happen.
Please, stop blaming Namco's sponsorship, stream monsters, tournament logistics/execution, etc. The majority of the world outside places with an arcade scene don't want to compete in Tekken anymore. But the few that do (myself included), will continue to do so.
If Tekken got the number of entrants that was expeced of it; it would have been spread thoughout more days.
Please, stop blaming Namco's sponsorship, stream monsters, tournament logistics/execution, etc. The majority of the world outside places with an arcade scene don't want to compete in Tekken anymore. But the few that do (myself included), will continue to do so.
If Tekken got the number of entrants that was expeced of it; it would have been spread thoughout more days.
^^^^^
Kind of agree with both of you. Tekken had it's fair chance to shine considering we didn't have to invest in any sort of campaign to be in the tourney like Skullgirls and Melee community did. In fact, I remember someone had brought up the question earlier if Tekken had only been chosen due to its prestige as one of the longest running fighting game franchises.
But it's also hard to ignore that this has always been a Capcom/2D-centric tourney even well before Capcom reinvigorated its own scene with SFIV and MvC3. We all know SFXTK got chosen just for being a Capcom game. If this was a fighter by any other company and sustained the same levels of failure, then I highly doubt it would have been included.
It is a shame that there aren't more entrants for Tekken but I guess we can just hope that number increases more dramatically with those late/on-the-site registrations. It is the biggest fighting game tournament in the world so it's sad to see the numbers so low.
But then again, the skip over SCV says numbers may not be everything. SCV had more entrants than MK last year but MK still got preferential treatment this year. In fact, Netherreallm got both their games on main stage (Injustice and MK9). So this is one of those things that are not so black and white and I can't really tell what's right or wrong.
Kind of agree with both of you. Tekken had it's fair chance to shine considering we didn't have to invest in any sort of campaign to be in the tourney like Skullgirls and Melee community did. In fact, I remember someone had brought up the question earlier if Tekken had only been chosen due to its prestige as one of the longest running fighting game franchises.
But it's also hard to ignore that this has always been a Capcom/2D-centric tourney even well before Capcom reinvigorated its own scene with SFIV and MvC3. We all know SFXTK got chosen just for being a Capcom game. If this was a fighter by any other company and sustained the same levels of failure, then I highly doubt it would have been included.
It is a shame that there aren't more entrants for Tekken but I guess we can just hope that number increases more dramatically with those late/on-the-site registrations. It is the biggest fighting game tournament in the world so it's sad to see the numbers so low.
But then again, the skip over SCV says numbers may not be everything. SCV had more entrants than MK last year but MK still got preferential treatment this year. In fact, Netherreallm got both their games on main stage (Injustice and MK9). So this is one of those things that are not so black and white and I can't really tell what's right or wrong.
Cosmic Forge
Member
It saddens me to see Tag2 didn't revitalize the Tekken scene like I hoped.
I used to be a hard core Tekken Lifer back in 99/00/01 when Tekken was in its Golden Age (IMO). Every single major city had a crew that represented at tournaments, and it created a great community.
Now, that's all shriveled up pretty much everywhere (I'm speaking for TX here). I've tried to contact all my buds from back then. Even then, Austin's crew was never more than 6-8 regulars, but at least we were in the scene. Now, everyone's moved on, real life, etc.
Even at my cripple old age I'd love to see the game revive again and go back to having weekly/bi weekly get togethers, but the interest isn't there. Hell I can't even locate 75% of the old crew anymore.
Here's to hoping that future Tekken games have a built in tourney/streaming feature that can help generate interest again. I hope the PS4 can follow the X1's lead and tie in with twitch and other stream sites so we can generate some Tekken hype once more.
Edit-- wait, super smash bros is bigger than tekken(anything)? ............. shoot me now. He's dead, Jim
I used to be a hard core Tekken Lifer back in 99/00/01 when Tekken was in its Golden Age (IMO). Every single major city had a crew that represented at tournaments, and it created a great community.
Now, that's all shriveled up pretty much everywhere (I'm speaking for TX here). I've tried to contact all my buds from back then. Even then, Austin's crew was never more than 6-8 regulars, but at least we were in the scene. Now, everyone's moved on, real life, etc.
Even at my cripple old age I'd love to see the game revive again and go back to having weekly/bi weekly get togethers, but the interest isn't there. Hell I can't even locate 75% of the old crew anymore.
Here's to hoping that future Tekken games have a built in tourney/streaming feature that can help generate interest again. I hope the PS4 can follow the X1's lead and tie in with twitch and other stream sites so we can generate some Tekken hype once more.
Edit-- wait, super smash bros is bigger than tekken(anything)? ............. shoot me now. He's dead, Jim
The problem is you're being too pessimistic about it... Trust me when it would be more than what they expecting before, especially when Harada announcing his presence. I can understand when people don't preregister (in any given game) due to planning purposes. People don't want to commit a vacation leave (especially a almost-week long event), airfare and time coming on a tourney that doesn't give you a great experience in your game. In general, not every people got a dispensable income to keep a tourney-going lifestyle, and it's not advisable to do so. Look, Dilly got money troubles right now and needed help, do you expect him to go to tourneys immeadiately because we gotta match Marvel/SF4 numbers? That would be silly. (and don't doubt his passion on the game) and trust me when I say many people also experience that, though not as worse or could be worse but we don't hear about it...
This is why I partly want to separate ourselves with Capcom FGC, since we don't fit with them, our playerbase don't fit on a model where there's a bunch of majors regularly everywhere and relies on income and stream numbers and $$$ to be a success. We are not that..
To finish... I agree to what Dilly, and the others said...
And I seriously want to go to Final Round...
The whole MK vs SCV thing happened because after EVO in every major the MK numbers VASTLY outnumbered the Soul Calibur entrants. Along with the fact that MLG picked up MK and it got great numbers at those tournaments was all the inclination the EVO staff needed to reward the MK community for continuously travelling for their game. MLG also picked up Soul Calibur and MK was always the game with the higher turnout.
The only reason EVO is 2D-centric is because the 2D players show up for it. Aside from Netherrealms moneyhatting an injustice tournament in there I don't see ANY favoritism from the EVO staff for any game. Feel free to prove me wrong. Had the 3D community showed up in equivalent magnitude they would have gotten the same treatment any 2D game gets. Smash getting 550+ entrants and hence getting the Sunday finals card is evidence of this.
The world has changed. Tekken would have thrived in 99-00 era of arcades but the playing field and consumer mentality is also different. A technical game like Tekken will never get the numbers to garner a sunday EVO main event. Just accept it and enjoy TTT2 since I doubt we'll ever get a game like it ever again.
EDIT:
Looking at your post above Death, situations like Dilly's isn't unique to just the Tekken community. People from the Capcom community also have similar situations and people like them had to skip out on EVO. But like you said, looking at the demographic of the Tekken community they can't travel and they won't travel.
And looking at the excuse about only travelling to one tournament... very few people showed up to ECT, Texas SHowdown, Toryuken 2, NCR, SCR, UFGT, Civil War, GUTS, and what looks like is also happening to CEO. Everybody used the excuse about saving up to go to another tournament and now we're pulling the same excuse for the biggest tournament of all which is EVO. EVO gets the most mainstream exposure to spread the word out about your game and so many communities fight hard to get in there to showcase to the world. Case in point at the ST vs Smash vs Skull Girls donation battle for the 8th spot. If that isn't enough for the Tekken community to choose EVO as the major to travel to then it does speak volumes about how many players honestly really want to travel and compete.
The only reason EVO is 2D-centric is because the 2D players show up for it. Aside from Netherrealms moneyhatting an injustice tournament in there I don't see ANY favoritism from the EVO staff for any game. Feel free to prove me wrong. Had the 3D community showed up in equivalent magnitude they would have gotten the same treatment any 2D game gets. Smash getting 550+ entrants and hence getting the Sunday finals card is evidence of this.
The world has changed. Tekken would have thrived in 99-00 era of arcades but the playing field and consumer mentality is also different. A technical game like Tekken will never get the numbers to garner a sunday EVO main event. Just accept it and enjoy TTT2 since I doubt we'll ever get a game like it ever again.
EDIT:
Looking at your post above Death, situations like Dilly's isn't unique to just the Tekken community. People from the Capcom community also have similar situations and people like them had to skip out on EVO. But like you said, looking at the demographic of the Tekken community they can't travel and they won't travel.
And looking at the excuse about only travelling to one tournament... very few people showed up to ECT, Texas SHowdown, Toryuken 2, NCR, SCR, UFGT, Civil War, GUTS, and what looks like is also happening to CEO. Everybody used the excuse about saving up to go to another tournament and now we're pulling the same excuse for the biggest tournament of all which is EVO. EVO gets the most mainstream exposure to spread the word out about your game and so many communities fight hard to get in there to showcase to the world. Case in point at the ST vs Smash vs Skull Girls donation battle for the 8th spot. If that isn't enough for the Tekken community to choose EVO as the major to travel to then it does speak volumes about how many players honestly really want to travel and compete.
Tekken Tag 2 is so perfect too. Like one of the most near perfection fighting games I've ever played. This is the best Tekken has ever been and the sales, in comparison, are abysmal to previous entries.
I also hope Tekken goes back to being a Sony exclusive franchise on PS4. They already tried expanding the franchise in other territories (3DS/Wii U/360) and provided other people the opportunity to get a taste of the franchise. Even though I'm glad a lot of people got their hands on the franchise that otherwise wouldn't have, it was an unsuccessful attempt at large (imo). It would have done better if it had just stayed on PS3 since that's still where its largest install base is. Exclusivity sells anyway. Tekken used to be a console seller. People got PS2's because of Tekken. Going multi-platform sort of made it irrelevant. Lower review scores for Tekken 6 and TTT2 may also play a huge part in dwindling sales.
Also, one thing about the Filthy Cup, while I do expect it to do better numbers than something like CEO or ECT... it's still not going to touch EVO numbers.
Remember, Filthy Cup is taking place in a Bar Basement in Philadelphia. It's not taking place in a ballroom or dedicated rented center. Don't expect it to be the next Strong Style.
EDIT: About Tekken being multiplatform. Fun fact, if you look at the credits for the games from Tekken 1 to Tekken 3, the credits for those games always give a special thanks to Ken Kutaragi (architect and at the time SCE president of the PS1/PS2/PS3.) He played a huge roll in making Sony partner and invest in Namco's polygon technology for softoware. That is something that led to Tekken's exclusivity to Sony over the years. Now that Kutaragi is gone form Sony, that link isn't necessarily there anymore. And looking at the success of other titles of Namco that went multiplat like Dark Souls series and such, I don't see them returning to exclusivity anytime soon.
Remember, Filthy Cup is taking place in a Bar Basement in Philadelphia. It's not taking place in a ballroom or dedicated rented center. Don't expect it to be the next Strong Style.
EDIT: About Tekken being multiplatform. Fun fact, if you look at the credits for the games from Tekken 1 to Tekken 3, the credits for those games always give a special thanks to Ken Kutaragi (architect and at the time SCE president of the PS1/PS2/PS3.) He played a huge roll in making Sony partner and invest in Namco's polygon technology for softoware. That is something that led to Tekken's exclusivity to Sony over the years. Now that Kutaragi is gone form Sony, that link isn't necessarily there anymore. And looking at the success of other titles of Namco that went multiplat like Dark Souls series and such, I don't see them returning to exclusivity anytime soon.
@2nd paragraph, part of it too is because of possible bad publicity if they don't do it as Smash community not being pushovers.
@3rd nah, just like Kadey said before, there's always room in the market for Tekken and others... If it wasn't the case, FF13 would be regarded well and Dark Souls would be considered crap. Its just right now, the "FGC" thinks that success of a fighting game is due to a game being easier due to SF4's success, and if that's the case SFxT should be a great success even with all the crap happened. SF4's success is based on nostalgia alone, Marvel's (and Injustice's) success is due to having iconic chars that all people knew, and MK's success are also due to nostalgia and single player content. Conpared to TTT2, what you gonna show? snoop? lol... Trust me, Tekken just needs a single player mode and better marketing (like advertise the game as the toughest one out there, and people who love challenges would pick it up, just like people would)...
This is the time I want to be developing along with Namco... A SFAlpha3 World Tour + Urban Reign + Scenario Campaign + Fight Lab + MK Minigames mode all crammed in one campaign would be the most epic of them all...
EDIT @ Sayah I do want Tekken to go back to PS too due to piracy issues... I went to a young dude I knew and he's arguing with me about xbox being a better choice due to being able to "download" games... That speaks alot... The game ain't dying, we just need to make other people aware of things like supporting the developers, the competitive scene and such...
I didn't follow SCV vs. MK9 numbers in the followup tournaments so I can't comment on that. I don't have the hard data on hand to really make any sort of comparisons either.
I don't agree with the other stuff, though. Smash JUST got a chance to be at EVO. What happened to including Smash in all the past EVO's? We all know Smash is a huge community and demonstrated significant turnouts at their own tournaments. So why exactly did EVO just decided to include Melee and not give it a chance in the past decade? There is definitely favoritism and bias present. If there wasn't money-hatting and favoritism going on, Melee community wouldn't have had to raise thousands of dollars just to get a spot for the first time ever. Mr. Wizard also himself had said that SFXTK wouldn't get a spot at EVO 2013 largely due to the gem fiasco. How did the game get a spot anyway then? I didn't follow SFXTK's tournament scene in 2012 but I'd imagine it wasn't great considering how much hate there was for this game.
This is actually pretty interesting. I didn't know that.
AnkiRendan
Member
But by that logic, shouldn't TTT2 bring nostalgia from TTT?
I also feel like the whole "Tekken players are too old and have lives" thing is pretty silly. Street Fighter just did a better job of bringing new people in. And Street Fighter 2 predates Tekken 3 (which is when it became extremely popular, right?) Becoming older and having to move on is not a Tekken only thing. It's ridiculous to use it as a main argument. =/
I also feel like the whole "Tekken players are too old and have lives" thing is pretty silly. Street Fighter just did a better job of bringing new people in. And Street Fighter 2 predates Tekken 3 (which is when it became extremely popular, right?) Becoming older and having to move on is not a Tekken only thing. It's ridiculous to use it as a main argument. =/
It should be TTT2 is nostalgia to Tag1... but DOA is riding that train too... and MK... and SF, and by them, people got tired. Again, we eat each other...
And yeah, I could argue with it easily, because the people who are confident to be good enough to compete in Tekken fits in that. The game's nature is that when you suck, the game shouts it at you, making the young guns discouraged to go just yet, since nobody wants to go there and get creamed, and when they wanna go, they don't know which tourney to go since there are too many out there and we as a smaller numbered community are spread too thin...
Again, this is why I'm saying the current state in Tekken don't fit with what Capcom games are doing. This game needs fewer but higher-quality tourneys. Make the new people feel like they will have a blast going to tourneys, better exposure stream wise, and it won't happen when the Tekken community are trying to fit in to capcom FGC...
About Smash, Melee was included in EVO 2K7 and EVO 2K8. I don't know the details but apparently something really bad happened during that tournament which led to the EVO staff removing smash the next year. The game is back now though. (EDIT and about SFxT, Wizard made those comments before Capcom announced the 2013 patch which a lot more people accepted)
@ Death If you feel it's a conspiracy for that EVO is grudgingly putting Smash for a Sunday final out of fear of community backlash instead of it deserving then there isn't anything I can say to change your mind.
About the FFXIII vs Dark Souls comparison. Yes, as a game where people can sit at home, enjoy and dissect it will succeed and it already is. But I'm strictly talking about a game that forces people to get together and battle one another offline in a competitive environment. A game like TTT2 isn't going to survive in that front. I wouldn't have believed it a year ago, but looking at 90% of all the tournaments being run now, I have to stop kidding myself.
@ Death If you feel it's a conspiracy for that EVO is grudgingly putting Smash for a Sunday final out of fear of community backlash instead of it deserving then there isn't anything I can say to change your mind.
About the FFXIII vs Dark Souls comparison. Yes, as a game where people can sit at home, enjoy and dissect it will succeed and it already is. But I'm strictly talking about a game that forces people to get together and battle one another offline in a competitive environment. A game like TTT2 isn't going to survive in that front. I wouldn't have believed it a year ago, but looking at 90% of all the tournaments being run now, I have to stop kidding myself.
Naaah.
SF was being resurrected after being dead for so long. Tekken has always been there in one way or another. It's never been a dead franchise. Tekken players weren't going from TTT1 to TTT2. Most of them had already played the other Tekken titles in between (T4, T5, T5DR, T6). There isn't going to be significant amounts of nostalgia. Plus, TTT1 was running off of the hugely successful Tekken 3 which introduced many newcomers to the franchise (and had 96 on metacritic). TTT2 is running off of what many consider to be a failure (Tekken 6, 79 on metacritic). I personally found Tekken 6 immensely enjoyable so yeah.
DEATH™;66125431 said:
Also true. TTT2 had like over a million illegal downloads.
I clearly forgot that. Still, I have a point.
Edit: Actually, it was Brawl in 2008. And if I can remember correctly, the Smash community was forced to use items in matches (something they didn't want). There probably was some sort of fallout. Memory is fuzzy.
I'm not saying there's a conspiracy, I'm saying two things, 1. They are underestimating TTT2 and 2. They don't think TTT2 is worth two days... which is gonna bite their butts later on...
and yes that's why TEKKEN NEEDS A MORE COMPREHENSIVE SINGLE PLAYER MODE. That's the only real thing Tekken needs... Fight Lab is one good direction, but it can be better... You just need people to show how deep the game is, and they will love it just as much as we do. We can a campaign that has SF4 style trials, 1 vs 3 survival stages, tag stages, stages with stipulations, tekken force style stages, a tekken royal rumble, minigames, and throw in a tekken ball and bowl stages when you're at it. Add goals thoughout too where they need to make 10 punishes using getup kicks. Make a stage where they look for CH stuff only, stuff like that. give people something to grind to, something Wings of Liberty did very very well... They made single-player mode epicly...
P.S. The lesson Scenario Campaign taught us is something repetitive in a campaign is bad... you want to give something for people to grind on and give them challenges, but not become too repetitive that it becomes a chore.
There's only a few days left to register for EVO, there are no day of or emergency registrations. The chances of Tekken's numbers drastically rising are slim, but let's see. Like Wizard said, Tekken's entrants barely rose over MK's. And both games are finishing on Friday. Games with the same entrants got the same treatment. It's not about whether a game deserves one or 2 days. It's not for the game to decide.
And about the rest, we're discussing things about "what ifs". Maybe you're right and single player content will improve the tournament turnout, but unfortunately TTT2 doesn't have that luxury (except for a fricking AMAZING training mode). Doesn't change the state of this game we all love and play.
And one last thing, let's stop this notion of Tekken community "separating ourselves from the Capcom community". Ever since the very beginning Tekken has co existed with Capcom. From the days of the arcade you'd see people hop on to the CvS2 cabinet or 3rd strike cabinet and then move over to the TTT1 or SC2 machine for more games. Evolution, Final Round, Ultimate fighting Game Tournament, etc. all came about including all fighting games, not just Capcom games. Sometimes Tekken had the highest numbers, sometimes (like now) street fighter gets the highest numbers. It's always been about fighting games and the skills needed to get good at them.
And about the rest, we're discussing things about "what ifs". Maybe you're right and single player content will improve the tournament turnout, but unfortunately TTT2 doesn't have that luxury (except for a fricking AMAZING training mode). Doesn't change the state of this game we all love and play.
And one last thing, let's stop this notion of Tekken community "separating ourselves from the Capcom community". Ever since the very beginning Tekken has co existed with Capcom. From the days of the arcade you'd see people hop on to the CvS2 cabinet or 3rd strike cabinet and then move over to the TTT1 or SC2 machine for more games. Evolution, Final Round, Ultimate fighting Game Tournament, etc. all came about including all fighting games, not just Capcom games. Sometimes Tekken had the highest numbers, sometimes (like now) street fighter gets the highest numbers. It's always been about fighting games and the skills needed to get good at them.