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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
MikeBreezy92
Member
You're from Euorpe right? Pal Tekken 3 was 30fps
GrayFoxPL
Member
50fps because every game run at 50hz so games were 25fps or 50 like Tekken series.
Amazing. Happy with the title change.
I'm glad the meme exists. It was pretty funny back then.
Yeah, I definitely prefer English for those characters
I think we should make a consolidated list and send it his way.
Nice! Anna figure finally being made.
DEATH™;121937071 said:
I'm glad the meme exists. It was pretty funny back then.
Yeah, I definitely prefer English for those characters
I agree with all the above. You should tweet that to Harada
Also:
1) A PROPER Team battle mode that doesn't have loading in between battles.
2) VF5FS's Frame Data display during replays and practice mode. see example.
3) Get rid of all the auras and ki's and butterfly wings and all the distracting nonsense as customization outfits.
I think we should make a consolidated list and send it his way.
DEATH™;121951858 said:
Nice! Anna figure finally being made.
How about everyone post their wishlist for Tekken 7 and we can compile that before tweeting that out to Harada.
... I don't believe you!
*off to check T5.0 combo vids*
EDIT: I'm not seeing it.... maybe WS+2 was breakable back in T5.0?
EDIT2: Yeah... brutal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJn8oxRwn4
... I don't believe you!
*off to check T5.0 combo vids*
EDIT: I'm not seeing it.... maybe WS+2 was breakable back in T5.0?
EDIT2: Yeah... brutal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJn8oxRwn4
Tekken 4 was an interesting game that I logged quite a few hours into
fun stuff:
Kazuya:
1.) ws+2 is next to impossible to land in a high level tekken 4 battle though because everything was high priority jabs
2.) kazuya with ws+1,2 (safe but ch required) was difficult to land as well thanks to how powerful jabs were
3.) Just frame 11:2 was fun, ugh.
4.) Overrall, horrible horrile character
jin: (steve/lee/nina/jin was top tier)
1.) ch (1)2, gave a free jab follow up, so you can land ch, (1)2, 2,1 or 2,4
2.) final meta jfls gameplay was jumping u/b when getting hit by first two hits of laser cannon, I personally enjoyed (ch)b,f+2,1 (stun), into another b,f+2,1:d+2 into f+2,1,2,3, d+4
3.)his parry was fun as hell yet broken
Kuma:
had a full unblockable combo off of wall push (wall push, hopkick wall splat, just frame salmon hunter) and that's not even considered op.
Steve:
spamming 121 left everyone paralyzed, you can't ws or even outjab his jabs because of his reversal. His 121 would beat d+1 (this was before crush system) I considered him strongest character in Tekken 4.
Hwoarang:
I once performed his arena infinite infront of wcmaxi to which he replied "great game.."
Hwoarang had a cool glitch where you can go back turn when it says "round 1" and do d/b~b, d/b~b, d/b~b, d/b~b, d/b~b, d/b~b d/b~b d/b~b, d/b~b to which he teleports to the other side of the screen
lee:
ss+2,~f,1,2,4:4 was considered a anti-steve strat.
Heihachi:
had a charged electric and an awesome d+1 (which acts like bob's current d+1 except faster and hit more often on the ground, you can get up to 3x d+1s at times)
The better "mishima"
overrall, it was a interesting game with great ideas but horrible balance issues.
Honestly, the real reason that the recent Tekken games have been more balanced than the early games is really because it has been iterations since 5.0 and because of the "beta" arcade versions.
- We get the broken as shit 5.0 that gets a rush release on console (The one and only time they made that mistake).
- We get 5.1 which is much more balanced, but very boring.
- We get DR which is slightly more balanced, but more fun than 5.1 was.
- We get 6.0 which is not as unbalanced as 5.0, but still has some issues due to the early stages of the bound mechanic. Kazuya especially had some nasty stuff at the wall.
- 6.0 goes through a few minor patches, but not too much is changed.
- We get BR which ends up being the defacto version of T6 and the one that gets the console release, but it took them way too long to get there this time. The lengthened arcade version helped them get to this point, but it took them WAY too long to get there and the console release really lost steam because of it.
- TTT2 releases in arcades with the introduction of the new Tag Assault system. Lots of dumb shit gets discovered (like Knee abusing TA into Hwo Hunting Hawk) and the game gets an update fairly quickly.
- TTT2: Unlimited hangs around arcades for a bit and becomes the defacto console version for us.
- Console version comes with exclusive characters that turn out to have huge bugs, further giving credence to the importance of the arcade beta testing that they've been doing.
So, while I'm definitely looking forward to the possibility of a new direction for Tekken, I'm also looking forward to the potential for batshit insane balancing issues that usually come with the territory.
- We get the broken as shit 5.0 that gets a rush release on console (The one and only time they made that mistake).
- We get 5.1 which is much more balanced, but very boring.
- We get DR which is slightly more balanced, but more fun than 5.1 was.
- We get 6.0 which is not as unbalanced as 5.0, but still has some issues due to the early stages of the bound mechanic. Kazuya especially had some nasty stuff at the wall.
- 6.0 goes through a few minor patches, but not too much is changed.
- We get BR which ends up being the defacto version of T6 and the one that gets the console release, but it took them way too long to get there this time. The lengthened arcade version helped them get to this point, but it took them WAY too long to get there and the console release really lost steam because of it.
- TTT2 releases in arcades with the introduction of the new Tag Assault system. Lots of dumb shit gets discovered (like Knee abusing TA into Hwo Hunting Hawk) and the game gets an update fairly quickly.
- TTT2: Unlimited hangs around arcades for a bit and becomes the defacto console version for us.
- Console version comes with exclusive characters that turn out to have huge bugs, further giving credence to the importance of the arcade beta testing that they've been doing.
So, while I'm definitely looking forward to the possibility of a new direction for Tekken, I'm also looking forward to the potential for batshit insane balancing issues that usually come with the territory.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Is WD-40 safe for sticks, because my down/right direction is hella squeaky now lol.
Why do that if you can buy a new replacement stick instead? It's way cheaper and easier to buy a replacement stick than maintain it...
Either way, just be careful to apply it carefully and not go on the copper wires/pcbs. I haven't tried it but looking at specs that it somehow protects corrosion so that won't be a problem (hopefully). Just get a paper towel and be careful lol.
EDIT: read some stuff, WD40 attracts dirt. so it may be not a good idea in the long run...
FormallyFamicom
Member
DEATH;122097505 said:
It's not so annoying that I'd feel driven to replace it, but I damn sure don't feel like breaking in another Crown stick anytime soon.
Oh Crown? Yeah I feel yah... Had mine pretty bad too, at least it forced me to actually mod my stick to have a myounshin. also AFAIK you can just replace the rubber inside the crown... Haven't tried using the myoushin rubber for it but it's pretty cheap so it's a nice option...
http://etokki.com/Misc/Myoungshin Fanta rubber medium
EDIT: Should we turn on the Markman Signal now?
DEATH;122089333 said:
Something readable, if we send him an essay it's unreasonable for him being a non-native speaker to comprehend the entire thing. For the purpose of discussion there's nothing wrong with making a long write-up, but for the compilation I think it's best to keep it simple and to the point bullet form.
Man that Kuni vid is hilarious haha with King going on about orphans and long walks in the beach.
I think post T6BR the Tekken team is extremely proficient at balancing. I believe the TTT2 fiasco happened because of how magnanimous of an addition tag assault was. With T7 going back to 1v1 I don't think it's possible to have something as drastically balance damning as tag assault. But of course they might indeed have a brand new system that's gonna force the Tekken team to start from scratch... then I too will be getting ready for the things going bananas!
Hmm... I guess we could wait till after Comic-con in the very unlikely scenario we get some information of the gameplay.
Thank you for posting this, I love hearing these retrospectives. FAB was streaming earlier and commentating the EVO2K5 T5.0 finals and he was having so much fun talking about the way the game played back then.
Hours Left
Member
Huh? What a strange post.DEATH;121953856 said:
I think it goes without saying that I disagree with you, but you might want to broaden your horizons a bit. The human form, both male and female, are extremely beautiful. One is not "better" than the other.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Mah Kazuya was so awful?! Bu bu buuu but electric!
Me too. There should be characters with long combo speciality but not all.
Is it just me or Bryan having huge long combos and insane wall carries doesn't really fit the character?
Only Kaz seems to not give a shit about juggles: "Ima electric, maybe two, the other guy does some shit while I check my fan page then I end with my No Momentum Required Rocket Kick Of Doom."
Mah Kazuya was so awful?! Bu bu buuu but electric!
Me too. There should be characters with long combo speciality but not all.
Is it just me or Bryan having huge long combos and insane wall carries doesn't really fit the character?
Only Kaz seems to not give a shit about juggles: "Ima electric, maybe two, the other guy does some shit while I check my fan page then I end with my No Momentum Required Rocket Kick Of Doom."
ewgf required CH to launch lol, otherwise, you just get one strong hit into oki. >_<
Favorite tekken 4 video of all time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxDjSxLwE8Q (you can't tech side wall hits)
How?
GrayFoxPL
Member
Eh. Ever since T3 I looked at him as a power character with strong single hits, mixup and oki game. Later he received more and longer combos that now rival or surpass eg. Leo's. I dunno I've never looked at him as a combo character.
MikeBreezy92
Member
That's because everyone became a combo character. Like Tekken pretty much makes every character have the same general stuff for the most part.
I personally like juggling but I think a lot of players (particularly ones that get juggled) are not a fan of just watching their health dwindle while they can't do anything for 5-10 seconds and want to get back into the action as quickly as possible.
Either way is fine with me.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Because when someone launches me in Tag2 I start thinking about meaning of life, what I'm doing with it or should I have let her leave those 13 years ago?
Then I wake up for a sec: "I can tech?" No. Floor break... "I should get a cat."
No I like juggles but:
1. They are too long in Tag 2.
2. They are too slow in Tag 2.
You can literally eat a sandwich by the time someone executes a perfect tag combo including tag buffer launcher, tag assault, wall carry, wall combo, wall break, floor break and end with an air throw.
You can add it to wish list of Tekken 7 but juggle combos should be:
Quick. Dynamic. Short. Difficult in proportion to reward: Damage, frame advantage, okizeme situation/advantageous position.
Thankfully T7 is one on one game so combos must be shorter no matter what but still...
Bang, bang, bang, bang! And both players are back in the game.
I'm not saying male figure can't be beautiful. It's that relying on the male figure alone isn't the most flexible way in character design, and hence it will not attract majority compared to females in terms of catching the eye.
When trying to make a male character, relying on looks only doesn't cut it. They need to be cool/badass/have a legit reputation and history just to get people's attention.
Females on the other hand have a luxury of having a figure that is just pleasing to the eye, that just screams "look at me!", whether they are athletic/muscular, full/chubby or skinny. And you can add the same things like badassery and you get a instant classic even without the history (e.g. Juri)
P.S. I want to draw freaking King and AK, why do I have to be a scrub at drawing????
But really, the fact that they lose control and literally seeing themselves lose is a torture, at the same time the guy who juggles (like us) delight on it, while sipping your opponent's tears. So it goes both ways...
And it's actually designed to be that... It just comes back to the fact that when you try to make people play proper Tekken, you are kinda setting themselves up to be competitive, and some people do not want to be competitive and just want to have fun, while some people want to be competitive without putting the effort because it's no fun...
Double post again, and this might be old, but I think this is a important Harada interview...
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/creators/9/2
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/creators/9/2
GrayFoxPL
Member
It's not about the damage it's about how long it takes. Ever heard of the term "slow torture"?
Last time I played against this Paul and he did df+2 into deathfist and quick damaging wall combo and I was like "Thank you!" just because he kept it short, even if I was about to die.
Last time I played against this Paul and he did df+2 into deathfist and quick damaging wall combo and I was like "Thank you!" just because he kept it short, even if I was about to die.
That's exactly what they are saying... You get juggled, you get the most frustrating feeling while we go and drink your tears... Honestly, that's fighting game in its purest form where it's the most unpredictable roller coaster of emotions...
And hey don't single out Paul's Deathfist man, you know people are just as equally frustrated with that move...
Personally, I think the most annoying part of juggles is when you get hit with a launcher in one of those "I should have known better" or "I was fucking holding back goddamit!" situations. Then you sit there for this whole combo eating a ton of damage and just getting super salty over anything.
Simply put, it takes long enough to potentially get you super salty and throw you off your game.
EDIT: Question. I'm looking to replace the stick on my PS3 TE stick. Anyone have a link to a decent guide that explains the process of swapping them out?
Simply put, it takes long enough to potentially get you super salty and throw you off your game.
EDIT: Question. I'm looking to replace the stick on my PS3 TE stick. Anyone have a link to a decent guide that explains the process of swapping them out?
GrayFoxPL
Member
DEATH™;122191198 said:
No, that's not the same. Noobs are frustrated because they are losing to juggles I'm just tired of waiting for them to end. You understand the difference.
And it's funny when people say it's been always like that. Juggles? Sure. Short, ones, making for quick dynamic matches. But someone who says Tekken has to have and always had 10+ second long ass juggles adds fuel to the fire of trolls who keep mocking: "Tekken is only about juggles".
Watch this TTT1 matches of old timers: www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7PYvljJAFU
Notice the blazing speed the match is played. The incredible sidestep and whiff-punish game. Crazy evasive movement. This is Tekken.
Tell me guys doesn't Tag2 look incredibly slow in comparison? Maybe because 2 good Tag2 opponents grow gray hair watching each other 5 to 12 second juggles after each launch? Just maybe.
Even in juggle heavy TTT1 match like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GyAU8vjeds
How long players take to juggle or be juggled ? A second, two? And the match resumes at full speed again.
This is what's missing. The tempo, the dynamic of Tekken battles had been slowed down by making longer and longer juggles for just sake of being fancy. Tekken needs to go back to that speed, movement and quick decision making. The speed, again the speed for Christ's sake!
I can do long combos in Tag2 but if I'm starting getting bored while juggling then you know shit is getting backwards.
When there isn't any juggling going on in Tag 2, it looks close to that video you posted.
Tekken 6 BR seems even faster than Tag 2. You mentioned Tag 2 many times, which obviously has the longest combos in the series, but you haven't talked about Tekken 6 BR. Are you throwing that game in the same boat? Tekken 6 BR combos (most of them), non wall-carry combos with bound, are not long.
I'll post an example, this is BR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCCmaiYVqo
There are juggles, but they don't last that long at all, even the wall carry combos go by fairly quickly. Are these combos still too long? I guess I'm confused, because to me Tag 2 combos are undeniably long, and maybe that makes BR combos seem short in comparison.
Tekken 6 BR seems even faster than Tag 2. You mentioned Tag 2 many times, which obviously has the longest combos in the series, but you haven't talked about Tekken 6 BR. Are you throwing that game in the same boat? Tekken 6 BR combos (most of them), non wall-carry combos with bound, are not long.
I'll post an example, this is BR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCCmaiYVqo
There are juggles, but they don't last that long at all, even the wall carry combos go by fairly quickly. Are these combos still too long? I guess I'm confused, because to me Tag 2 combos are undeniably long, and maybe that makes BR combos seem short in comparison.
Master Thespian
Member
I was, which is why I linked my opinion of from the T6(BR) thread. Compare T6BR juggles to T5DR juggles and the difference is plain as day. What frustrates me about this topic is that people ask what our problem is with juggles and instead of listening to the answer, we're told that we're mad about something else ("it's really because you're losing"). It's been the same answer for the past 5-6 years.
The problem with juggles that are long is that the pace of the game is ruined because one person is literally not playing for 5+ seconds.
Sorry I was referring to GrayFox.
The "I was holding back darnnit" part I completely understand. It's just that I think some inconsistencies in Tag 2 can easily be fixed by a minor patch that I wish we have a chance of having...
Also, about your stick, You don't have to have a guide for it as long as you are replacing the same JLF stick. It's really simple once you get rid of the fear of opening your arcade box. the harness will be in the same position, and you just need a hex and a phillips.
Don't blame the slowing of tempo on the juggles, cause you can do the same long juggles in TTT1 (Changs say hi), not to mention the damage scaling is bad. You know why those things look fast? THERE IS 8 FRAME JABS, AND THERE IS NO CRUSH SYSTEM so people can freely pitbull all they want without hesitation. I'm not blaming the crush system on anything because it's badly needed (crouchjabs yo), but blaming the juggles alone because we want to get on the action and press some more buttons is not something that's justifiable. Do the same way you play Tag 1 with brainless poking with the same jabs over and over again will get you hopkicked in Tag 2, and right deservingly so.
Besides, that game on this day and age will be ridiculed way more. How ugly that game will be...
I honestly want to make a comparison, because characters like Steve have pretty comparable long juggles, and that's on the top of my head. Steve in particular is a character where actual combo video style combos are used in matches since he's so good at maximizing damage in juggles... It shudders me too that aside from taking 3/4ths of damage, most combos he does end up in walls where he can reset you to another combo again...
Hrrrrr...
GrayFoxPL
Member
Tekken 6 seems faster because you get shorter stages, most with no breakable tech and one health bar so you can't even survive many long combos in a round. Tag2's 2 healthbars, recovering life, additional moves that upped the combo count, almost every stage having breakable walls and floor, makes for way dragging on showcase per round that's why it's such a pain.
So yeah T6 combos are short but only in comparison because IMO in T6 it's where it started being already too long with the effect of slowing down the pace of matches.
If Tekken 7 had T6 long combos I wouldn't be mad, not after Tag2. I can live with those. What I'm actually afraid is them taking Tag2 long combos as a new standard thinking players wouldn't want to go back to anything shorter. This is what I'm really afraid off.
Double bound.
It obviously is the bound system that made combos long.
In Tekken 5 it was: launch, combo, ground game
In Tekken 6 it was: launch, combo, bound, 1-3 hits after bound, ground game
In TTT2 it's: launch, combo, bound, tag assault filler, combo ender, ground game
And that makes combos so long. If they want to make T7 combos faster they will have to get rid of the bound system, and I don't want that to be honest.
If I made any mistakes you're free to correct me.
In Tekken 5 it was: launch, combo, ground game
In Tekken 6 it was: launch, combo, bound, 1-3 hits after bound, ground game
In TTT2 it's: launch, combo, bound, tag assault filler, combo ender, ground game
And that makes combos so long. If they want to make T7 combos faster they will have to get rid of the bound system, and I don't want that to be honest.
If I made any mistakes you're free to correct me.
GrayFoxPL
Member
DEATH™;122222806 said:
Drink some cool aid because you started shouting on the internet.
How long juggles can't be blamed in slowing down the pace of match? It's a long period of time where one player is totally passive while other rolls his lengthy pattern of moves.
Show me those same long combos you can do in TTT1 as in Tag2. That would be a sight to behold. Or is your proof that Changs can do multiple elbows? This is your Tag2 long combo in Tag1?
Not only jabs were faster, every movement was faster, dashes and back dashes were faster/longer, evasiveness of sidesteps were incomparably better("Because there's no homing durr") that actually made for far more exciting dance of death. Maybe the "brainless" jabs were something better then "brainless" hopkicks leading to slow ass juggles.
This is the thing though, that 3 hits after bound is the usual number of hits in a TA, not to mention aside from wall carry chars that T6 also have, the pre bound filler is shorter too due TTT2 brings chars farther each hit.
The thing that really frustrates people is not how long the juggle lasts, because they are just really comparable by hindsight. It's the fact that the game revolves around punishing that you can possibly be launched in every single thing that you do, from block punishing, whiff punishing, oki and crush system, so in a match there is alot more times you will get launched compared to the previous games, and that adds on the perception that grayfox for one has, especially when there is less time to poke... Add the salt in that moment and tadah! You just want to get the juggle done with...
DEATH;122227003 said:
lol
Tekken is perfect. Even if Tekken 7 implements changes some are clamoring for, you'll still think it's perfect.
Thanks
I'm actually pessimistic about T7. And darn I won't want to be Harada right now...
Cmon now let's drink it together lol.
1. Again, it's not the juggles themselves, it's the fact that everything is rewarded by a launch. Wallsplats get a launch, bad wakeup leads to a launch, CHs gets a launch, crushes get a launch, punishing, both whiff and block gets a launch. Even some mixups lead to a launch. Even if you go back to remove bound, it will not change the fact that everything leads to a launch now and add that frustration.
And if that stays the same, forget trying to attract newbs because Tekken veterans will still launch them for stupid things and they will still end up discouraged/frustrated.
2. That same combos in the vid you gave is the same length as the regular open BnBs for characters aside wall carry chars, same 3-5 seconds. Walls are a different issue because there are no walls in TTT1. It's a wiser comparison for DR and BR/Tag 2, which they do not differ as much, and as most only differ by 1-2 secs and that's generous.
The thing is there are anomalies in this game, which I will totally understand your point. The only anomalies in TTT2 are the likes of Lars and Leo because they literally break the rules in juggles lol. If there are no chars who can bend the rules this way, we won't have this talk. Don't blame the juggles, blame the chars lol.
All I have to say is that Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the perfect game catered to my tastes. But I respect if other people aren't as keen on it as I am. Very rarely can I tell myself that I'm not having fun. But I can respect that it may not be for everyone else. I suppose the tournament popularity is a testament to that.
Honestly ever since I found out that Harada said the character count was gonna be 35-38 characters, I'm relatively confident it won't be much different. I would find it an INSANE feat if they make a 35+ roster game where the gameplay was completely brand new. T7 I believe will be the final refinement of the T6 system. Hence I also predict some system wide feature like bound will still be there as well since the system thus far depends on it so much for functioning the way it is. But alas I could also be completely wrong. TGS should be here in < 2 months so we can hopefully have a clearer picture then
EDIT: Just for empirical evidence, here are the rosters for games that go through reboots:
(Get rid of top row that had Cammy/Fei/Rose/Dan since they weren't in the arcade version)
If Tekken 7 were a complete overhaul of the system like the above games along with having more than 35 would be unprecedented.
DEATH™;122231251 said:
Honestly ever since I found out that Harada said the character count was gonna be 35-38 characters, I'm relatively confident it won't be much different. I would find it an INSANE feat if they make a 35+ roster game where the gameplay was completely brand new. T7 I believe will be the final refinement of the T6 system. Hence I also predict some system wide feature like bound will still be there as well since the system thus far depends on it so much for functioning the way it is. But alas I could also be completely wrong. TGS should be here in < 2 months so we can hopefully have a clearer picture then
EDIT: Just for empirical evidence, here are the rosters for games that go through reboots:
(Get rid of top row that had Cammy/Fei/Rose/Dan since they weren't in the arcade version)
If Tekken 7 were a complete overhaul of the system like the above games along with having more than 35 would be unprecedented.
Hours Left
Member
Sorry, I still don't agree. A guy doesn't have to be badass in order to be appealing, and female characters need a lot more than just looks to be a good character. Of course good looks a do a heck of a lot to make a strong first impression, but this is true for both male and female characters, despite your claim.DEATH;122183632 said:
I feel you're thinking about this in a very self focused way. Obviously straight men are still the core demographic of most gaming related content, but there are a lot gamers out there that prefer to see content geared towards them that don't fall so neatly into the majority.
I think the one thing that could "solve" juggling would be a way to get out of it if you're on the receiving end. We already have the ability to throw-cancel via various button inputs, so why not introduce something similar to juggles?
Not in a singular "Press down to cancel" fashion, but have various juggling moves require a specific reaction-button/s to break out of them. That way there's still some learned skills for pro-players to memorise which action needs to be used to cancel specific moves, whilst still providing an avenue for low-level button mashers to sometimes chance upon hitting the right thing and break free.
Not in a singular "Press down to cancel" fashion, but have various juggling moves require a specific reaction-button/s to break out of them. That way there's still some learned skills for pro-players to memorise which action needs to be used to cancel specific moves, whilst still providing an avenue for low-level button mashers to sometimes chance upon hitting the right thing and break free.