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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"

M

Manbig

Member
GrayFoxPL said:
Very cool for a second match. I loved the double side sways with Marduk.
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That's actually a carry over from when I used to play T5DR. Same with my Cornered Beast abuse. I've stopped doing both things because d/b1+2 is super punishable now and Cornered Beast is booty butt cheeks.
 
S

Sayah

Member
I usually don't thank Verizon but thank you Verizon.

3662856404.png

Manbig said:
You're looking at it through the lens of Tag 2. Outside of Tag 2, those throws are really in line with Giant Swing damage and are WAAAAAY easier to break.

Also, no, everyone should not have the same benefits from throws. Like with anything else, some characters should be better at it than others. The ones that aren't better of it should be better at other things. This actually kind of already exists now. Giant Swing, Tomestone Pildrivers, juggle starting throws (minus possible wall combo enders), and throws that wall splat all lead to similar damage.

On another note, I actually found some random footage of my second ever match of Tekken 6.0 at CF. The bound system was initially almost as awkward as the TA system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4ijjyS-XQ
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Yeah, but giant swings can be tech'd. I'm not saying it needs to be equivalently offered across the board. More so that the option should be there for each character if they are going to offer it and there should definitely be more risk/reward associated with it.

I know 1+2 throws are easier to see coming but there's always the time when you get grabbed anyway.

And I'm talking specifically about one of my gripes with TTT2 so of course I'm going to look at it through a Tag 2 lens. A tag bufferable grab that can lead to massive combo damage? Yeah, I find that overpowered and wish there was more risk/reward associated with that. Marduk leaves you 20 feet in the air and Waning Moon gets your back all exposed.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
So I've decided to DL Revolution again.....

Dude the reward for breaking those throws is the fact that you don't get to take all that damage...

I don't see how they're overpowered at all especially since this is a tag game with TWO lifebars.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
I usually don't thank Verizon but thank you Verizon.

3662856404.png



Yeah, but giant swings can be tech'd. I'm not saying it needs to be equivalently offered across the board. More so that the option should be there for each character if they are going to offer it and there should definitely be more risk/reward associated with it.

I know 1+2 throws are easier to see coming but there's always the time when you get grabbed anyway.

And I'm talking specifically about one of my gripes with TTT2 so of course I'm going to look at it through a Tag 2 lens. A tag bufferable grab that can lead to massive combo damage? Yeah, I find that overpowered and wish there was more risk/reward associated with that. Marduk leaves you 20 feet in the air and Waning Moon gets your back all exposed.
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Complaining about something that you think is overpowered in Tag 2 that has to do specifically with the tag system is pretty pointless at this point though.

Of course f,f1+2 is going to catch you regardless of how good your throw breaking is. I said these kinds of grabs work as keep out moves because when you get grabbed out of a move, you're committed to whatever input you did as the throw break. So if you try to do something like Jay Cee f,f1 and I manage to grab you dashing in, you will not be able to break it since you already have a 1 input committed.

Also, Marduk's f,f1+2 is incomparable to Waning Moon. Waning Moon nets you a full backturned launcher (minus a few exceptions) while Marduk f,f1+2 is a very low damage juggle starter that leads to low damage juggles due to the angle. If you tag buffer it, you're lucky to get 60 points. Anyone that can score higher damage in this situation is an outlier.

Lastly, Giant Swing + tech is still high damage. Tombstones are more damage than teched Giant Swing, but less damage than unteched and wall splat Giant Swing. Across the board, it's similar damage to all juggle starting throws that aren't named Waning Moon.
 
S

Sayah

Member
MikeBreezy92 said:
So I've decided to DL Revolution again.....

Dude the reward for breaking those throws is the fact that you don't get to take all that damage...

I don't see how they're overpowered at all especially since this is a tag game with TWO lifebars.
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What type of argument is that? lol.

Some heavy frame launchers don't take as much damage as these grab combo followups. And I can punish launchers with larger number of frames reasonably well. Should the reward for blocking these launchers also be that you don't get any damage resulting from that launcher?
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
Complaining about something that you think is overpowered in Tag 2 that has to do specifically with the tag system is pretty pointless at this point though.

Of course f,f1+2 is going to catch you regardless of how good your throw breaking is. I said these kinds of grabs work as keep out moves because when you get grabbed out of a move, you're committed to whatever input you did as the throw break. So if you try to do something like Jay Cee f,f1 and I manage to grab you dashing in, you will not be able to break it since you already have a 1 input committed.

Also, Marduk's f,f1+2 is incomparable to Waning Moon. Waning Moon nets you a full backturned launcher (minus a few exceptions) while Marduk f,f1+2 is a very low damage juggle starter that leads to low damage juggles due to the angle. If you tag buffer it, you're lucky to get 60 points. Anyone that can score higher damage in this situation is an outlier.

Lastly, Giant Swing + tech is still high damage. Tombstones are more damage than teched Giant Swing, but less damage than unteched and wall splat Giant Swing. Across the board, it's similar damage to all juggle starting throws that aren't named Waning Moon.
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I'm only mentioning this in reference to having certain gripes about TTT2 and me still loving the game regardless. It was an example of a gripe in contrast to certain individuals saying the characters in TTT2 are all the same (which I felt was a misappopriated gripe).

TTT2 is out now and there's nothing that can be changed about it now. Doesn't mean all discussion of gameplay mechanics should cease. It's just an example.

Edit: Tested Marduk's ff,1+2 with Nina. With tag buffer, I can take 68 easily. No TAs, walls, balcony/floor breaks. Giant swing takes like 65 damage? Now with tag assault, damage from f,f1+2 can easily increase to 89 damage points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jcwoUcRgQ#t=3m6s
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
I'm only mentioning this in reference to having certain gripes about TTT2 and me still loving the game regardless. It was an example of a gripe in contrast to certain individuals saying the characters in TTT2 are all the same (which I felt was a misappopriated gripe).

TTT2 is out now and there's nothing that can be changed about it now. Doesn't mean all discussion of gameplay mechanics should cease. It's just an example.
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Thing is, even in the context of Tag 2, I disagree with your notion. If throws were punishable on break, then an already weak system would truly become useless. Throw breaks already give you + frames. It shouldn't go any farther than that, regardless of the damage.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
Thing is, even in the context of Tag 2, I disagree with your notion. If throws were punishable on break, then an already weak system would truly become useless. Throw breaks already give you + frames. It shouldn't go any farther than that, regardless of the damage.
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You already have an example of a successful grab evasion punish in the game, though. Paul can only get combo damage from f,f1+2 when the opponent is against the wall but successfully evading the grab puts paul in a wall splat and you get rewarded for the successful read. And the combo damage resulting from that is not even significant as Paul is face first into the wall and not back first into the wall.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
You already have an example of a successful grab evasion punish in the game, though. Paul can only get combo damage from f,f1+2 when the opponent is against the wall but successfully evading the grab puts paul in a wall splat and you get rewarded for the successful read. And the combo damage resulting from that is not even significant as Paul is face first into the wall and not back first into the wall.
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That is one outlier in a game that has hundreds of throws. That one instance shouldn't mean that everyone else should get the same treatment. Paul already has a scary 50/50 both with and without the wall, so maybe they felt that they should throw in a little something like that to compensate?
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
That is one outlier in a game that has hundreds of throws. That one instance shouldn't mean that everyone else should get the same treatment. Paul already has a scary 50/50 both with and without the wall, so maybe they felt that they should throw in a little something like that to compensate?
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Not talking about all throws. :p
Just specifically about throws that can lead to combo damage. I am not at all putting forth the position that every single throw should be punishable in some way. That would be pretty insane, haha.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
Not talking about all throws. :p
Just specifically about throws that can lead to combo damage. I am not at all putting forth the position that every single throw should be punishable in some way. That would be pretty insane, haha.
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Even then, it is still an outlier. Paul also has a just frame grab that can wall splat that doesn't cause him to wall splat when broken. This tells me one of two things. They made that shoulder throw with Paul the outlier because, as I said earlier, they felt that he already has a lot of strong tools outside of grabs and he needed some sort of trade off for this one, or they just added it to play up to his dumb character (like the incomplete moonsault).

I still don't think it should be the standard bearer for similar throws.

EDIT: Jack also has a wall splat throw that's super punishable. The one that you can just frame block.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
Even then, it is still an outlier. Paul also has a just frame grab that can wall splat that doesn't cause him to wall splat when broken. This tells me one of two things. They made that shoulder throw with Paul the outlier because, as I said earlier, they felt that he already has a lot of strong tools outside of grabs and he needed some sort of trade off for this one, or they just added it to play up to his dumb character (like the incomplete moonsault).

I still don't think it should be the standard bearer for similar throws.
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I think damage output from grabs like Waning Moon and Jun/Asuka WS grab is way too insane and needs to either toned down, made more risky, or removed all together (talking specifically in terms of Tag 2). Just one of my few gripes with the game.

I understand you want stronger grabs but I disagree that it should be 100+ damage points strong with no risks associated with it. And you know that type of damage is possible with the aforementioned grabs.

We'll agree to disagree then.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
I think damage output from grabs like Waning Moon and Jun/Asuka WS grab is way too insane and needs to either toned down, made more risky, or removed all together (talking specifically in terms of Tag 2). Just one of my few gripes with the game.

I understand you want stronger grabs but I disagree that it should be 100+ damage points strong with no risks associated with it. And you know that type of damage is possible with the aforementioned grabs.

We'll agree to disagree then.
Click to expand...

Outside of a couple of the throws that wall splat and Waning Moon, none of these throws are netting 100+ damage outside of MAYBE full wall carry into full wall combo. The Jun/Asuka one does pretty much 0 damage in of itself and the follow up combo is hit with damage scaling. It's pretty much like scoring a low parry that allows an extra bound. You're throwing hyperbole into this.

We will agree to disagree. I'll leave it at that.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
Outside of a couple of the throws that wall splat and Waning Moon, none of these throws are netting 100+ damage outside of MAYBE full wall carry into full wall combo. The Jun/Asuka one does pretty much 0 damage in of itself and the follow up combo is hit with damage scaling. It's pretty much like scoring a low parry that allows an extra bound. You're throwing hyperbole into this.

We will agree to disagree. I'll leave it at that.
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Pretty much zero damage?!?!? Look at this shit man. I'm not exaggerating. haha. Add in tag assault and you're nearing mid-high 80s. Add in wall and you're over 100 easily..........from a single grab.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:

Pretty much zero damage?!?!? Look at this shit man. I'm not exaggerating. haha. Add in tag assault and you're nearing mid-high 80s. Add in wall and you're over 100 easily..........from a single grab.
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The problem with citing a combo video as an example is that nearly everything in them is incredibly situational. Kind of like how the only time they got anywhere near 100 damage (and surpassed it one time) was with the addition of a wall+ sandwich combo + wall break.

With TA, you're gonna get around 80-85 points on average across the whole cast.

EDIT: I assumed that this was obvious, but let me make it clear that I'm only referencing the damage off of Falling Leaf in this post.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Manbig said:
The problem with citing a combo video as an example is that nearly everything in them is incredibly situational. Kind of like how the only time they got anywhere near 100 damage (and surpassed it one time) was with the addition of a wall+ sandwich combo + wall break.

With TA, you're gonna get around 80-85 points on average across the whole cast.
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You only had to watch the first 20-30 seconds. I was referring to their WS grab. 72 damage alone without tag assault or wall. That's significant. And those WS grab combos in that video were not situational (they're performed on an infinite stage) nor do they take insignificant or zero damage. For perspective. Asuka f+2 tag buffer with Jun leads to 73 damage without wall/tag assault. And their f+2 is easily punishable with a d/f+2 launcher.

I also posted a Marduk video earlier with 89 damage with tag assault/no wall.

High 90s, 100+ is definitely feasible with wall alone. You don't need balcony or floor breaks.

Let's just end. I don't want to argue anymore. lol.
 
M

Manbig

Member
Sayah said:
You only had to watch the first 20-30 seconds. I was referring to their WS grab. 72 damage alone without tag assault or wall. That's significant. And those WS grab combos in that video were not situational (they're performed on an infinite stage) nor do they take insignificant or zero damage. For perspective. Asuka f+2 tag buffer with Jun leads to 73 damage without wall/tag assault. And their f+2 is easily punishable with a d/f+2 launcher.

I also posted a Marduk video earlier with 89 damage with tag assault/no wall.

High 90s, 100+ is definitely feasible with wall alone. You don't need balcony or floor breaks.

Let's just end. I don't want to argue anymore. lol.
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I would, but I keep having counter points to everything you keep bringing up, including the ones you brought up in this post, but I will drop it. :p

CcrooK said:
Guys, just go play some games. Go play TitS. It's awesome.
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Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky? I've actually been playing a bit of that on my VIta after buying it years ago. It's refreshing to see a JRPG that's both light hearted and isn't about the world ending. Well, at least it isn't about that so far...
 
N

NinthPixel

Member
I am happy to see throws have purpose in Tag 2. Spending 8 hours straight one day throw breaking made me near unthrowable for years in Tekken. It is nice to have to be on my toes to break them now.

Throw breaking is the easiest defensive skill to learn, though. Pick Baek as an opponent since success or failure doesn't leave you too far from the next throw. Set it all up and challenge yourself. I can break around 13 in a row when I get warmed up. I forget what my record is, but I always break in-game. The trainers are cool and all, but I never see my progress in games from them.
 
M

Manbig

Member
MikeBreezy92 said:
Can't think of any way they could be implemented well.
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I've had several discussions in here about this mechanic explaining my thoughts, so I won't go all wall of text here, but I definitely wouldn't mind seeing them give this mechanic a shot in a proper Tekken. It would be nice to have them in a proper training mode to actually break down how they work frame by frame, but after playing thousands of matches of TR, here's what I can tell you.

- They are not invincible on the first frame. From my experiences, I suspect that they need somewhere around 5 frames before they become invincible.

- You cannot do them from a forced crouch situation.

- They are like - 100 on block.

- They are quite linear. Just some inconsistent tracking versus step to one side here and there, but they always lose to sidewalk. I've done this several times on my stream and shared links, but Twitch purged that archive.

- They do fairly low damage. Especially when you consider certain class 1 launchers that go under both highs and mids, or some of the ridiculous backswing blows that are currently in the game and are less punishable.

- It is an easymode anti-gimmick tool that does not surprass the reward for learning the "proper" punishments for gimmicks, but serves as a great placeholder while you are learning the match ups.

That's the short and sweet of it.
 
GrayFoxPL

GrayFoxPL

Member
What do you guys think about motion blur?

It was really intensive in T6 and they turned it down in Tag2.

Whenever I turn it off the game feels faster to me and I can see singular frames of the moves.

But people say it's easier to block moves thanks to the smudge.

Hope they don't go overboard with it in T7, lol.
 
LowParry

LowParry

Member
GrayFoxPL said:
What do you guys think about motion blur?

It was really intensive in T6 and they turned it down in Tag2.

Whenever I turn it off the game feels faster to me and I can see singular frames of the moves.

But people say it's easier to block moves thanks to the smudge.

Hope they don't go overboard with it in T7, lol.
Click to expand...

Honestly it can do without this go around. I'm expecting some crazy looking effects with the UE4.
 
D

Doomshine

Member
I think the blur looks great, maybe it might be a bit clearer and easier to see certain things without but I think it's a neat effect.
 
S

Sayah

Member
mr_boo said:
Sick...just saw Sayah beat Speedkicks and whomever he was teamed with on stream. Was rooting for Sayah all the way :)
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Thanks. I got destroyed right afterwards, though, haha.

Edit: Also, it's Anakin and Speedkicks. I faced them earlier in a set.
 
A

AAK

Member
GG's today boutdown, that Lee thing I was trying to test was confirming this video

Also, the conversation between Sayah and Many was fascinating, lots of points I never considered.

Also, hopefully I'll have some new internet within the next couple of weeks hopefully I can play Ninth Pixel again. I'm noticing Mike on that Tekken Revolution. I've still got a bunch of tickets I need to get rid of considering the game probably isn't getting anymore updates (Where is my Julia's hit sparks!) Any of you guys up for some games there soon?

Also sorry Manny, I was doing labour work from the past 4 days and I pulled my back muscle. I can't even bend forward now without writhing in pain. Your lever is getting delayed (again). Sorry for making you wait!
 
D

Dereck

Member
AAK said:
I've still got a bunch of tickets I need to get rid of considering the game probably isn't getting anymore updates (Where is my Julia's hit sparks!) Any of you guys up for some games there soon?
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I'm down whenever, I've never played it outside ranked so it will be a good change
 
M

Manbig

Member
AAK said:
GG's today boutdown, that Lee thing I was trying to test was confirming this video

Also, the conversation between Sayah and Many was fascinating, lots of points I never considered.

Also, hopefully I'll have some new internet within the next couple of weeks hopefully I can play Ninth Pixel again. I'm noticing Mike on that Tekken Revolution. I've still got a bunch of tickets I need to get rid of considering the game probably isn't getting anymore updates (Where is my Julia's hit sparks!) Any of you guys up for some games there soon?

Also sorry Manny, I was doing labour work from the past 4 days and I pulled my back muscle. I can't even bend forward now without writhing in pain. Your lever is getting delayed (again). Sorry for making you wait!
Click to expand...

It's all good man, no rush. I just hope everything is okay with you.
 
S

Sayah

Member
I'm trying to run alternate teams of Jinpachi/Anna and Dragunov/Nina since those are the next two characters I enjoy playing with a lot......but not very successful so far. Ran with Jinpachi/Anna in ranked and got squashed. lol.

I might grind it out with a Dragunov/Jinpachi team so I can learn those two better individually.

Dragunov is mad, creative fun to play with, though.

Good news for me is I think I'm getting the hang of flapping butterfly repetitions in actual matches. Bad news is I might need a new dualshock.

Edit: If you want to watch SpeedKicks give a beating. Watch from 3:14. I had stream on mute but a lot of great commentary and observation.
http://www.twitch.tv/hoaluu629/b/554206743
 
TomcatTheLion

TomcatTheLion

Member
Looking to get back into the game but it's been quite a long time since I played. I'm sure the rust is very strong in me which will require major practice time.
 
A

AZUMIKE

Member
I wonder what system mechanics and character specific moves will transfer over to T7...

Also, the game recently froze on me in practice mode...right after a Lars d/b 21 the screen froze, and controller was stuck viberating. A second afterwards, the console shut off (I think as a response to the freeze/viberation). Anyone else experience anything like this?
 
GrayFoxPL

GrayFoxPL

Member
UltWarrior1 said:
I wonder what system mechanics and character specific moves will transfer over to T7...

Also, the game recently froze on me in practice mode...right after a Lars d/b 21 the screen froze, and controller was stuck viberating. A second afterwards, the console shut off (I think as a response to the freeze/viberation). Anyone else experience anything like this?
Click to expand...

Console ragequit.
 
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