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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
Only available on Chrome. Very clever, Google
Oh wow, very nice controller. Perfect for claw style since R1 and R2 are placed next to the 4 buttons. Buuut it's very hard to get in Germany, the only shops that got them are in UK and they're out of stock. Even if they had them, they cost more than 22€ (problems with toll).
I'm from Germany, so connection could be a problem, but we can try. I'll send you my friend code later.
Do you play Tekken on PSN?
Gaming is expensive :/
I'd get a Wii U if it wasn't for the PS4. So many good games.
Why would you underestimate Bandai Namco like this? Your concern is reasonable, but I think your concern may be misplaced. I think they know what they're doing, we don't know how long Tekken 7 has been in development [citation needed], and if the game doesn't come out on console until next year, then the arcade release, releasing too quickly will be mostly inconsequential.
MikeBreezy92
Member
If they haven't spent too long in developing T7(imo the announcement was pretty soon compared to other games) them releasing it early in the Arcades is a good thing for console players. Sooner its out in Arcades the sooner its available for us.
Via Purifico
Banned
I can see the game coming in late 2015 while a streach not impossible or a direct year like TTT2 and we get it in feb.
GrayFoxPL
Member
It's nothing about Namco Bandai, every first release of fg is broken and rushed release is even more broken. This may not be rushed, though I don't see enough of new stuff to justify some hidden long time development.
I still think both rage arts and crush moves weren't meant for T7 but for TxSF where it'd fit from logical standpoint.
There are "few" potential "broken" things in rage arts as of right now (aka first and probably only loctest) and some of them come from mimicking SF4 without taking account Tekken way things work.
First thing is super simple activation.
1+2, 3+4, d+1+2 etc. Ask yourself how quick are to react on opponents animation with such simple command? I guess quick, very quick, and the execution will take you 1, 2 frames at most. Now take SF4 Ultra commands. The simpliest is qcf,qcf ppp/kkk but there are crazy like Guile's Flash Kick Ultra, Zangief's 720 or Guy's and Ibuki's double half circle back. These are not motions you can fire up in 1 or 2 frames on reaction, you can only buffer the motions by doing another move, jump, or on block stun . You can fire up Rage arts on reaction in T7. Jabs are 10 frames not 3-4 like on SF4 and moves generally are 14-20 frames and those are the faster ones.
Second thing is Super freeze. In loc test vids nothing recovered fast enough for opponent to block before rageart hit. Literally hitting any button or even be in late part of animation meant death, real death against Steve that did 85% with his Rage art. Connect this with above reaction and execution time and you have receipt for disaster.
Some people say Rage Arts are slow. They only look slow if you are blocking or out of range. That's the only time. Claudio side stepped Kaz's f+3 and fired up Rage art while the move was already recovering and still punished him for 70% of damage. That isn't slow.
Plus the armor, the damage moves do on opponent during Rage art is some percentage, not full damage from what I saw. King's Rolling Sobat f+4 did some pitiful damage on rageart that I said: "wtf is this shit?". Jab type moves did sliver of danni. Only if opponent had very tiny bit of rage health left the trades killed them but when the rage was almost max the moves could not take even half of that. I can't think of a move fast and damaging enough other then deathfist that could take out opponent having close to full rage +armor on Rage art. You can't count on very telegraphed moves also. Deathfist or highway.
This can have potentially stupid outcomes, like everyone picking Paul to have the biggest chance of killing off opponent who did rageart against deathfist. Or the winning player being on actual disadvantage to losing player having a good chunk of rage health.
Like winning player who can't do shit because everything he throws out will potentially kill him since Rageart works like super reversal.
At this point the Tekken logic of exchanging moves doesn't apply. You can't think: "I'll do a move that is safe on block or better, plus on block." It doesn't matter. You twitch with anything, opponent hits 1+2 and the rest is history. On the other hand opponent can do literally every stupid shit. The general rule of: you do move, blocked, you are minus, opponent has chance to attack. Is fucked. Now guy with rage can be minus 9 on block and just fire up Rageart and poor opponent that just tried doing 1,2 after correctly blocking to gain anything, is just destroyed.
Is this something that is a fair punishment for correctly blocking, being at frame advantage and trying to do shitty damage with jabs but in exchange for that getting 40-50-60% of punishment in return for free? Very fair and not frustrating.
What else is left? Blocking at infinitum, side stepping, running away and whiffing jabs from afar to make opponent fire up rage art from distance so it doesn't hit you, if he's that stupid? Finally waiting to get rage yourself.
This is only tip of the iceberg of problems as of right now. It's gonna be awesome if they turn at very least down rage art damage to 25-30% max and fix the armor damage but I wouldn't be too sure they want to that since it's supposed to be the flashy star feature.
Seeing Lili Player taking down Steve to rage then Steve doing df+1,2~1 on block then rageart and killing of 80% of Lili's health because she dared to push a button after blocking is the most retarded thing I've seen in Tekken game ever and that's including everything from T4.
So yeah, Bout, Sorry that I'm little bit of skeptic but I doubt they'll fix all these issues in 3 months. I'm sure they'll finally make everything right in second or third revision of Tekken 7, but right of the bat? No way. Sorry.
They need to adjust tons TONS of little things with rage arts and crush arts to not make the gameplay retarded at some point or another. Little hidden things that come out when player skill rises, not just obvious: "nerf the damage".
It can be done, but it's definitely not going to work if left as it was in loctest, no fucking way. That shit was beyond dumb.
One thing that can break and frustrate new Tekken 7 players with rage art triggers are...
Tekken 6 seasoned players. They'll do what they did in T6, stop combos before rage status to make sure next combo will kill them. But this: "not making too much damage" caution play is just ass imo.
Off-topic rant: Just submitted a paper a minute before its due. Started a section, wrote a sentence for it, and forgot to delete it since I didn't have time to complete it. Now the professor will see it and be like "what is this?" -10 points. The rest of the paper is pretty good, though. Just wished I had given myself ample time.
I really need to stop procrastinating in the free time I have.
This game so beautiful. Look at that off-screen footage. Can't wait to see it on my TV screen when it releases on consoles. And people are calling it ugly. smh.
Yeah, to me it seems like both Tekken 7 and Tekken Revolution are test beds for the future Tekken X Street Fighter game.
I mean they put Eliza in Tekken Revolution, a character heavily focused on projectile moves. Now we have Claudio in Tekken 7 who also seems to play unconventionally and has some power hand mechanic.
My theory: They were testing all these characters and diversions for TKXSF and didn't think the system was refined enough for introducing SF characters into the Tekken system yet.
With the changes we're seeing in Tekken 7, I'm sure it'll make things easier for them.
Though, I can see the difficulty in establishing TKXSF. Street Fighter characters have a very limited set of moves/animations. The new moves/animations they provide them have to make sense or Ryu might not feel like Ryu. They pretty much have the task of creating brand new moves for these characters that they don't have in the Street Fighter universe. In contrast, SFXTK only had to trim down the move list of the Tekken characters and take the select few essential moves.
I really need to stop procrastinating in the free time I have.
This game so beautiful. Look at that off-screen footage. Can't wait to see it on my TV screen when it releases on consoles. And people are calling it ugly. smh.
Yeah, to me it seems like both Tekken 7 and Tekken Revolution are test beds for the future Tekken X Street Fighter game.
I mean they put Eliza in Tekken Revolution, a character heavily focused on projectile moves. Now we have Claudio in Tekken 7 who also seems to play unconventionally and has some power hand mechanic.
My theory: They were testing all these characters and diversions for TKXSF and didn't think the system was refined enough for introducing SF characters into the Tekken system yet.
With the changes we're seeing in Tekken 7, I'm sure it'll make things easier for them.
Though, I can see the difficulty in establishing TKXSF. Street Fighter characters have a very limited set of moves/animations. The new moves/animations they provide them have to make sense or Ryu might not feel like Ryu. They pretty much have the task of creating brand new moves for these characters that they don't have in the Street Fighter universe. In contrast, SFXTK only had to trim down the move list of the Tekken characters and take the select few essential moves.
MikeBreezy92
Member
A lot of the time people were hit by rage arts due them still being in active frames.
I don't see anything wrong with them
I don't see anything wrong with them
LowParry
Member
My only problem with this theory is, what if say famale version Paul was the popular vote?
Passive Assassin
Member
master cup about to start in 15 minutes.
Passive Assassin
Member
goddamn that tekken opening track... so hype.
There's a thread Wonkey made.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=923521
Female Paul?
Ehhhh
lol
MikeBreezy92
Member
Nah a lot of what I've heard about TTT2 as to why people didn't buy it and this was from fans of Tekken, was that "Its the same game" so no, it was the game's fault.
The ayys originated from Japan if I remember correctly
Thank you
FormallyFamicom
Member
Character data for Mastercup 7. Lars >>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>> everyone else :/
I just want to stop by to say that same mentality will also screw up T7...
GrayFoxPL
Member
DEATH;137007292 said:
Obviously very different gameplay but in terms of just copy pasting movesets since T6 it's kinda justified. That's what truly disappointed me about T7 loctest. Copy paste Tag2 move and animation data, remove one move, add new one or old from other character, done.
No, it wasn't the game's fault.
They brought back every single character in Tekken history.
I'm still amazed how they managed to balance out the tag assault mechanic. This mechanic alone makes TTT2 way different than any previous Tekken game.
Every character still had new CG cutscene endings (except Tiger I guess).
Netcode that is miles better than Tekken 6.
Separate Fight Lab/Story mode. Almost EVERYONE hated Scenario Campaign in Tekken 6. I don't see that much hate for Fight Lab.
This game did almost everything right. What are you faulting the game over? Its huge roster? Its exuberant soundtrack? Its extremely balanced gameplay? Its tendency to introduce new features that previous fighting games have lacked? Tekken Tunes? Tekken Federation? Not sell exorbitant amounts of paid costume and character DLC?
I remember there was a point where people were not expecting ANYTHING from the console port of TTT2 and just were expecting it to be a straight port of the arcade version. They they blew everyone's mind with the new character reveals and modes.
Terareflection
Member
Just watched Mastercup finals, Capos a shit.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I'm not faulting the game for that stuff. I'm saying other people did. Tekken 6 left a bad taste in people's mouths and a lot of the casual and non-competitive fans were wavering at that point. Nothing TTT2 did really attracted anyone and people dropped off. Even the forum I modded at completely died because no one was talking about the game. And this was at a non-competitive level. The Tekken fanbase as a whole is pretty much dormant at this point.
TTT2 is treated as a sidegame by the fans of the non-competitive aspects aka the people who actually get most of the sales. Good online, Fight Lab, etc. Doesn't matter. Most of the endings will be Non-canon so they don't matter much. The consensus I've seen is "Yeah all this stuff is nice but it just seems like T6 with a Tag Mechanic." Which is minimalist but that's what I seem to hear about.
Nobody really liked Scenario Campaign as a mode but it gave those Storyline fans something to write fics about, discuss that didn't have anything to do with the core gameplay. When TTT2 is seen and talked about as a side game, its a step back to pre-Tekken 4 pretty much and I don't think they received that well.
It's a spin off game but it provides a lot of quality features.
TTT2 is pretty much a fan service game. It's for the fans. It's a culmination of everything. If you're a Tekken fan, then you have enough reason to buy it. And unlike Tekken 6, the wait for TTT2 console release was much shorter so it's not like interest would have waned off.
People can have legit reasons for not liking a game. And that's fine. If you have no interest in TTT2, then that's on you. And that's fine too. But do not fault the game for not delivering what you hoped for. It did almost everything right.
If all you care about is story or pretty costumes, then I can see TTT2 is not the game for you. But, again, do not fault the game for lacking those features when it does so many other things right. It's non-canon so it's not expected to have a story and they clearly had to make a cutback on customs due to 4 characters on screen or what not. It's reasonable to not expect TTT2 to have extensive story modes or customizations. You go back to TTT1 and it offered far less than TTT2 and was far more popular. Times are just changing.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I think people can fault the game for not having what they wanted, that's the whole point of criticism. Of course not everything is for everybody and yeah this was the fanservice Tekken game but if the fans don't care for the fanservice...there's an issue there. Even if it is a fanservice game doesn't hurt to be inclusive either. Simply saying "its for the fans" is never a good excuse especially when the fans are meh on the product you're putting out and your projections aren't met.
Via Purifico
Banned
Tekken needs a real tutorial not Fight Lab which was fun in its own way.
It's like instead of making a proper tutorial he creates Katarina who can do fancy stuff with one button.
It's like instead of making a proper tutorial he creates Katarina who can do fancy stuff with one button.
To be honest, relatively few characters in Tekken have hard to do important moves to begin with. Mishimas, Kings, Baek, Nina, maybe Lee and that's pretty much it. Katarina will probably land with Lars, Lili and Alisa but I don't see her being too stupid from what I saw in the loctests. It's really the movement and the sheer volume of knowledge you need to have to be any good at the game that's a problem.
Having some the training mode teach you how to punish certain moves would be nice; TTT2 already detects which moves are punishes and which aren't, so it shouldn't be impossible to come up with a mode where there's a guided system to do that. Detecting proper movement... maybe that's a bit harder but it's also a very integral part of the game.
Now, making this all interesting and not just a dojo style thing is a lot harder and I really have fewer ideas how to work that into a story mode but I think that would be required if you really wanted players to learn your game before hopping online.
That's the point.
It's a non-canon spin off. Having high expectations of it incorporating a big story is just not going to happen. I mean it could but very likely not. Be reasonable and keep expectations in check instead of faulting the game, which did quite the spectacular job of including many, many features.
MikeBreezy92
Member
None of those characters other than Mishimas and Nina are really hard.
Lars isn't exactly easy either, he just tools for....everything.
I see nothing wrong with Katarina since she plays more like VF character than a Tekken character.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's nothing for the casual fan to actually care about. So why would they go out and purchase a game that does not cater to them? People outside Tekken? Looks the same as the Tekken game before it(it does don't bullshit there). The game is clearly at fault here because it has to cater to people, its a product first and foremost. There were no grandiose expectations here.
The hard characters:
Based on sheer abundance of data to take in:
Hwoarang (reason: a lot of stances. Blue sparks/just frame sky rocket)
Nina (reason: a very heavy command list with a lot to learn. Flapping butterfly execution)
Lei (reason: a lot of stances)
Based on less data/more execution:
Mishimas are considered hard due to execution based on one to two moves (i.e. EWGF). But proper implementation and mastering of that one single move can be pivotal for playing these characters.
I mean I don't use Mishimas that much but I went through the command lists for Kazuya and Heihachi. Outside of EWGF, the rest is easy to learn. Unless you're trying to do something like EWGF after Kazuya's WS2 attack, then yes, it can get further complicated but hardly anyone is able to do that combo and you will rarely (if ever) see it in a match so I don't factor that into character difficulty.
Character bias aside, I consider Nina to be the hardest character to learn. She has A LOT of options and knowing how and when to use what can take some time. I mean I still suck with this character despite using her for so long. Agree? Disagree?
Based on sheer abundance of data to take in:
Hwoarang (reason: a lot of stances. Blue sparks/just frame sky rocket)
Nina (reason: a very heavy command list with a lot to learn. Flapping butterfly execution)
Lei (reason: a lot of stances)
Based on less data/more execution:
Mishimas are considered hard due to execution based on one to two moves (i.e. EWGF). But proper implementation and mastering of that one single move can be pivotal for playing these characters.
I mean I don't use Mishimas that much but I went through the command lists for Kazuya and Heihachi. Outside of EWGF, the rest is easy to learn. Unless you're trying to do something like EWGF after Kazuya's WS2 attack, then yes, it can get further complicated but hardly anyone is able to do that combo and you will rarely (if ever) see it in a match so I don't factor that into character difficulty.
Character bias aside, I consider Nina to be the hardest character to learn. She has A LOT of options and knowing how and when to use what can take some time. I mean I still suck with this character despite using her for so long. Agree? Disagree?
By that logic, TTT1 also didn't do shit. It's just Tekken 3 with tag mechanics. Yet, everyone ate that game up.
You're focusing too much on casual fans not buying and not enough on the various other factors that have led to a decline for Tekken in general. Fighting games are no longer the system-selling genre that it used to be. Plus, TTT2 is releasing at the end of the console generation and had hefty competition (DoA5, SCV, SFXTK, BlazBlue, Skullgirls, VF5FS all in the same year).
How are you telling me casual fans didn't care about it? The game sold close to or over 2 million copies. That's not all hardcore Tekken fans. A big chunk of that is casual fans.
TTT2 is catering to people. There's a minority of people that don't like it. There's a majority that does like it. Not the game's fault if the minority isn't catered to because they had expectations of story + beautiful customs from a non-canon game with four players on screen at once. They did what they could with the time and funding they had. If you go back and look at the previous Tekken thread AAK made, pretty much no one expected TTT2 console version to end up having what it ended up having. It surpassed expectations in my book.
Sorry man, but I do think Tekken Nation is a dying forum either way.
Also, the biggest draw TTT2 has among "Tekken Nation" players are Michelle, Kuni, and Jun... I do think you know what I'm talking about... If those people are still complaining about not having what they wanted, maybe these fanbase really do not know what they want, coz AFAIK everyone is on the TTT2 bandwagon when it's still close on release day...
I don't think people are going to appreciate TTT2 until the next Tekken releases with half the roster and they have to pay up for characters.
I mean if you look at the shit Capcom is doing and the general trends the video game business is going towards, I'm happy with what TTT2 did. It'll be a mark of video gaming excellence in my book. And 10 years later, I'll probably be nostalgic for this game and what it did and brought to the table.
TTT2 was a fan service game, plain and simple. Enjoy it while it lasts because I'm doubting you'll be getting the same level of content and features in future games. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm leaning towards paid DLC in Tekken 7. Probably for customizations at least.
I mean if you look at the shit Capcom is doing and the general trends the video game business is going towards, I'm happy with what TTT2 did. It'll be a mark of video gaming excellence in my book. And 10 years later, I'll probably be nostalgic for this game and what it did and brought to the table.
TTT2 was a fan service game, plain and simple. Enjoy it while it lasts because I'm doubting you'll be getting the same level of content and features in future games. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm leaning towards paid DLC in Tekken 7. Probably for customizations at least.
LowParry
Member
I don't think they can dish out the free stuff anymore. If it were all costumes as DLC, damn right I'd pay. Characters however? Oiy.
This is what I'm heavily leaning on. I might be echoing what Sayah said, but when people get their chars cut, and they get hit by "yolo ragearts", and when everything gets discovered quick, people will bash the game like they bashed the older games. Even the legendary T5DR is also full of complainers, and lucky for that game, the complaints ain't as loud because social media isn't as prominent as now.
So unless the complaining culture of the fanbase stays (both on casual and competitive standpoint), don't expect T7 to be the savior of the franchise...
DEATH™;137099029 said:
Tekken 7 has the potential. I think it can get a large PC fanbase. But with all the negativity and pessimism people are throwing at Tekken 7's way based on a FU***** location test, I don't know.
In the recent ATP Live with Bronson (three weeks ago?), I think Bronson is 100% right. Tekken is already losing steam. If you have nothing good to say or have no interest in the game, then that's fine. But stop ruining it for everyone else that's excited. The negativity potentially turns away people that may be interested in the franchise. You see community members (MarkMan, Bronson, Aris, FlyingWonkey, others) making A LOT of effort to get Tekken to gain traction because they love the franchise and they want it to be popular. And then you have others that have nothing better to do than complain. Bronson was literally saying STFU to these people.
It's one thing to constructively criticize. It's another thing to already make purchase decision on a game based on a location test (which people did in the thread on the gaming side) or call it ugly when the developer explicitly said game is at 50%-60%....or say other silly things.
If Tekken 7 ends up sucking, which it could, then reserve your judgment until you actually play the final copy in your hands.
Yeah, I'm thinking characters won't be paid but I expect costumes to be.
I was just giving an example.
DEATH™;137099626 said:
Yeah, my post from the MasterCup thread yesterday.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136944334&postcount=24