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[Mael]

Scary, very scary times in Europe.

And I'm not talking only about terrorism, the rise of the far-right is real and this only fuels it.

Seriously if the only reaction to this shooting is people tiptoeing over how the far right will rise and how horrible this whole thing is, they kinda deserve to win.

 

[Mimosa97]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bjbUg9d64g

This song is trending on Facebook and Twitter. Great lyrics, very heartwarming. Vive la France !

If someone wants a translation, feel free to ask.

 

[spekkeh]

Looking at those magazine covers makes me think that not even your average Muslim is this obsessed about Islam lol.



It's sad that there are many people in the world who think of all that imagery when they think of Muslims and the Muslim World.

Also the bottom right cover confuses me. A woman who is not Turkish looking at all, holding up a Turkish flag. Not to mention these are all German magazines, where Turks have their largest presence outside of Turkey, and yet none of these covers has a Turk on them.

Why couldn't she be Turkish?

 

[DrForester]

Any stories with followups on the status of the 11 injured? Any chances the death count will rise, or is everyone expected to be OK?

 

[devilhawk]

I agree that it can be difficult for some to interpret. For what it's worth (using the France pie chart example), the 8% actual Muslim population slice isn't next to the 31% mythical Muslim population slice. It's a part of it.

The 31% slice is made up of 8% actual Muslims and 23% mythical Muslims. In any case, the gray portion isn't meant to represent a specific group. It's meant to illustrate a general comparison of Muslim population (both real and imagined) vs the rest of the population. That's why that section is gray and unlabeled.

It isn't difficult to interpret. It is obvious what it means. It is just an atrocious way to represent data.

 

[gutter_trash]

Seriously if the only reaction to this shooting is people tiptoeing over how the far right will rise and how horrible this whole thing is, they kinda deserve to win.

not gonna happen. Madrid bombing, 1 week before the election did not tip toe Spain to the Far Right.
The London bus bombing also did not tip toe the UK to the Far Right.

The Far Right is loud but they are not the majority.

Places like Greece and Hungary, yeah okay they might slip in and get in. But not France, not UK, not Spain, not Germany

 

[ComputerMKII]

Guardian Media Group has pledged £100k donation to Charlie Hebdo to help ensure it's not silenced. Google giving $300k

----------

The national library of France is paying homage to the cartoonists:

 

[Iku-Turso]

The international support is pretty touching, I'd never have thought it would be of this magnitude. There was a sort of gloomy mood in the subway today, people are not angry, just sad.

Thanks for everyone's support !

 

[SkylineRKR]

Scary, very scary times in Europe.

And I'm not talking only about terrorism, the rise of the far-right is real and this only fuels it.

Europe has been fed up with immigrants for quite a long time already. Far Right wings are strong and outspoken ever since 9/11. And since the economical crisis. Crimes like these just add to it.

But when it comes to it, common sense does seem to take over. It never won in Holland til this very day. I don't think they will in the future either.

 

[Tangeroo]

It isn't difficult to interpret. It is obvious what it means. It is just an atrocious way to represent data.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said this:

WTF does the gray part in the pie chart represent?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Seriously if the only reaction to this shooting is people tiptoeing over how the far right will rise and how horrible this whole thing is, they kinda deserve to win.

This is an horrific terrorist attack, there's no doubt about it and something society should condemn and react. But in the midst of the social turmoil here on Europe and with politicians on the rise saying "we're living with the enemy" is something to be worried about, is echoeing very dark parts of our history....

 

[Guileless]

This is a reference to his book Submission?

I mean, it's a stupid thing to say. The social dynamics and numbers simply aren't there support such an idea.

It's a work of fiction, stupid to make such a reference.

I haven't read the novel and don't even know if it has been translated, but from descriptions I've read it sounds quite plausible after reading these threads the last two days. The premise being that somehow in the first round of voting, the two mainstream parties get knocked out, which leads to a runoff between the National Front and a new ostensibly moderate Islamist party. If faced with those choices, I bet a majority of Gaf could not bring themselves to vote for the National Front type party.

 

[Jisgsaw]

It isn't difficult to interpret. It is obvious what it means. It is just an atrocious way to represent data.

It's the best way there is (and honestly pretty obvious), without loosing/distorting some data anyway.

It was tongue in cheek. The grey by itself can't represent anything because it isn't anything, hence why it is unlabeled. Which is also why it is an atrocious pie chart.

Not to sound offensive, but your suggestion (that the grey would be the non-muslims + imaginary muslims) is even worse, as then the proportion of actual and believed muslims wouldn't mean anything, as it would be compared to a non existent sum including imaginary things.

Again, it's the best representation (as pire charts at least; histograms would have been better), and IMO not confusing at all: it's just two pies put into one.

 

[devilhawk]

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said this:

It was tongue in cheek. The grey by itself can't represent anything because it isn't anything, hence why it is unlabeled. Which is also why it is an atrocious pie chart.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Stay Safe France GAF

 

[Stereogatari]

Well, that cover is from 1997, but I really don't know what the cover is trying to show. It's definitely supposed to be Turkish, though.

As to your other argument: Well, yeah, but not each of these covers are talking about Islam within Germany. Doesn't make them better, but just FYI.

Yes I guess they don't have to show Turks in particular, but even so all that imagery is so sensational and removed from the actual reality of what your average Muslim dresses and looks like. It's like a made up boogeyman picture of Muslims, has no basis in reality.

Why couldn't she be Turkish?

I dunno she just seems a bit exotic for Turkish standards. Might just be a bad angle. Or maybe she's an Eastern Turk/Kurd.

 

[Mael]

not gonna happen. Madrid bombing, 1 week before the election did not tip toe Spain to the Far Right.
The London bus bombing also did not tip toe the UK to the Far Right.

The Far Right is loud but they are not the majority.

Places like Greece and Hungary, yeah okay they might slip in and get in. But not France, not UK, not Spain, not Germany

the situation in France is much more complicated than that.
My point is not that the Far Right is more competent there, it's that the rest are more clearly visibly incompetent fools that will get booed out of office.

This is an horrific terrorist attack, there's no doubt about it and something society should condemn and react. But in the midst of the social turmoil here on Europe and with politicians on the rise saying "we're living with the enemy" is something to be worried about, is echoeing very dark parts of our history....

No that's not what I meant,
I mean if the only message politics have for us is :
"OMG WHAT WILL WE DO AGAINST THE FAR RIGHT"
And
"This is horrible, #JESUISCHARLIE"
After this, then really they've lost the plot.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Don't know if this has been posted yet...

‘NBC Nightly News’ Expected To Address Erroneous Charlie Hebdo Report

 

[LostCaress]

not gonna happen. Madrid bombing, 1 week before the election did not tip toe Spain to the Far Right.
The London bus bombing also did not tip toe the UK to the Far Right.

The Far Right is loud but they are not the majority.

Places like Greece and Hungary, yeah okay they might slip in and get in. But not France, not UK, not Spain, not Germany

The Madrid bombing had very special circumstances that drove the voters away from the right wing government.

 

[ComputerMKII]

NBC says the two gunmen brothers had been on their list of people suspected of terrorism and therefore banned from entry on the US territory.

Edit: Police told AFP that the search would continue tonight, with helicopters equipped with thermal cameras.

 

[Palette Swap]

the situation in France is much more complicated than that.
My point is not that the Far Right is more competent there, it's that the rest are more clearly visibly incompetent fools that will get booed out of office.

No that's not what I meant,
I mean if the only message politics have for us is :
"OMG WHAT WILL WE DO AGAINST THE FAR RIGHT"
And
"This is horrible, #JESUISCHARLIE"
After this, then really they've lost the plot.

Sadly, we were politically bankrupt two days ago and there's little reason to believe we won't be whenever the dust settles.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Don't know if this has been posted yet...

‘NBC Nightly News’ Expected To Address Erroneous Charlie Hebdo Report

Can't wait to hear this.

 

[Grizzo]

EDIT: I liked some of the thing they did on Canal+ today

Yeah, Le Petit Journal was especially great tonight.

 

[entremet]

NYTimes is reporting suspect in killings trained with Al Qaeda in Yemen.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Not sure if old, but the New York Times won't republish the cartoons either. I thought they were one of America's most respectable newspapers...?

 

[entremet]

Not sure if old, but the New York Times won't republish the cartoons either. I thought they were one of America's most respectable newspapers...?

They are.

Washington Post also denied publication.

Did they state why?

 

[ComputerMKII]

They are.

Did they state why?

I'm trying to find an official statement but all I could find was secondary sources.

I'm not sure how big the Boston Globe is, but here's their official stance on the issue:

 

[ComputerMKII]

Louis C.K. wrote Charlie Hebdo on his shirt for his Madison Square Garden show tonight.

Another cartoon:

"They've already drawn dicks everywhere."

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

They are.

Washington Post also denied publication.

Did they state why?

Last night the WaPo said they would publish it on Page 4, for "journalistic and explicative reasons." I hope they didn't walk back.

 

[Mael]

Sadly, we were politically bankrupt two days ago and there's little reason to believe we won't be whenever the dust settles.

Exactly.
I mean if the less politically and morally bankrupt politicians we have right now are literally people who are in party that had the support of former actual nazi supporters you know you're in some deep shit.
We wish the situation was as good as the UK or Spain when they suffered their tragic events.

 

[Zaph]

Another cartoon:

"They've already drawn dicks everywhere."

That's fantastic.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Explanation from the New York Times:

He said he had spent “about half of my day” on the question, seeking out the views of senior editors and reaching out to reporters and editors in some of The Times’s international bureaus. They told him they would not feel endangered if The Times reproduced the images, he told me, but he remained concerned about staff safety.

“I sought out a lot of views, and I changed my mind twice,” he said. “It had to be my decision alone.”

Ultimately, he decided against it, he said, because he had to consider foremost the sensibilities of Times readers, especially its Muslim readers. To many of them, he said, depictions of the prophet Muhammad are sacrilegious; those that are meant to mock even more so. “We have a standard that is long held and that serves us well: that there is a line between gratuitous insult and satire. Most of these are gratuitous insult.”

“At what point does news value override our standards?” Mr. Baquet asked. “You would have to show the most incendiary images” from the newspaper; and that was something he deemed unacceptable.

I asked Mr. Baquet about a different approach — something much more moderate, along the lines of what the Post’s Op-Ed page did in print.

“Something like that is probably so compromised as to become meaningless,” he responded, though he was speaking generally, not of The Post’s decision.

The Times undoubtedly made a careful and conscientious decision in keeping with its standards. However, given these events — and an overarching story that is far from over — a review and reconsideration of those standards may be in order in the days ahead.

Full article at: http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/charlie-hebdo-cartoon-publication-debate/

 

[chugen]

 

[ComputerMKII]

The MI5 (British intelligence) is warning against possible attacks in the west by Syrian members of Al-Qaida.

 

[Mael]

So let me get this straight :
Image showing the brutal murder in cold blood of a policeman
AOK
Image making fun of some prophet
KO Good gracious you wouldn't want to shock our readers, would you?

 

[lefantome]

The Young Turks rant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzO0Ob9lSzo

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Le Monde reports that ISIS's radio station called the attackers 'heroes'. -_-

Aren't ISIS and Al Qaeda enemies? (These attackers claimed to be from "Al Qaeda in Yemen".)

 

[BrassDragon]

Karma in action: now it's their turn to be afraid of the people with guns and masks.

 

[ComputerMKII]

jeuxvideo.com (France's biggest videogame website) has changed its logo:

Edit: Someone has made a small videogame as a homage to Charlie Hebdo: http://www.lescanardsvoleronttoujoursplushaut.fr/

 

[Guy.brush]

Cenk Uygur speaking DAT truth. What a great rant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzO0Ob9lSzo

 

[Stereogatari]

While in the Bill Maher thread I realised something.

If the religious texts of Islam and Islam itself are at fault for the Islamist terrorism we are seeing worldwide, then why wasn't it a problem a few decades ago? The texts were the same then as they are now, yet it seems more widespread of a problem in modern times. I'll pose the same question as I did in that thread, how can be explain why Islamist terrorism has become a modern phenomenon?

Cenk Uygur speaking DAT truth. What a great rant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzO0Ob9lSzo

Nah man, he's a secret Islamist in disguise!

 

[fierrotlepou]

Loving the world's reaction to this a lot.

 

[Skinpop]

It's actually pretty straight forward.

Dark red what part of the population is actually Muslim.

Lighter read is what percentage the public thinks is Muslim.

Grey is the part of the population that is not Muslim.

it is a bit misleading though. Depending on where you live in your country the muslim % will obviously change a lot.

 

[SgtCobra]

Karma in action: now it's their turn to be afraid of the people with guns and masks.

IF they ever find them.
They look baddass af though.

 

[Xando]

ISIS apparently hacked some websites of french towns.
http://www.ezanville.fr/

 

[Guy.brush]

While in the Bill Maher thread I realised something.

If the religious texts of Islam and Islam itself are at fault for the Islamist terrorism we are seeing worldwide, then why wasn't it a problem a few decades ago? The texts were the same then as they are now, yet it seems more widespread of a problem in modern times. I'll pose the same question as I did in that thread, how can be explain why Islamist terrorism has become a modern phenomenon?



Nah man, he's a secret Islamist in disguise!

Answer is complex:
A) Lots of Western meddling in Islamic core territories lit up an age old "victim complex" (probably brewing since the Crusades) and lots of poor muslim immigrants in Western countries, not wanting to integrate or believing in those countries values.
I wouldn't blame it on Western policy only though.
B) Lots of inner Islamic turmoil due to the rise of oil kings, lots of scheichs that were basically "desert dwellers" became uber powerful and uber rich very quick. And those people started sponsoring their pet terrorist or "freedom" uprisings in puppet or failed states.
C) Lots of poverty in Islamic nations, no democratic tradition paving the way for more radical interpretations of Quoran.
It seems a mix of blowback of mostly US and British Empire's foreign policy, mass immigration of people unwilling to accept their host country's values, shedding their archaic believes and poverty/inequality leading to extremism.
EDIT: Probably also
D) Different streaks and leanings within Islam, different ethnic groups trying to get the upper hand building their version of a Caliphate using past Western aggression as a common scapegoat to rally around.

 

[Mimosa97]

While in the Bill Maher thread I realised something.

If the religious texts of Islam and Islam itself are at fault for the Islamist terrorism we are seeing worldwide, then why wasn't it a problem a few decades ago? The texts were the same then as they are now, yet it seems more widespread of a problem in modern times. I'll pose the same question as I did in that thread, how can be explain why Islamist terrorism has become a modern phenomenon?



Nah man, he's a secret Islamist in disguise!

Why are some americans calling him a jihadist apologist in the comments ?

Everytime i see a video of him where he criticizes fox news, and you know the whole fucking world makes fun of Fox News, he gets called names and that he's pro-al qaeda, a communist etc... Some of the dumbest comments i've ever read.

 

[Skinpop]

Explanation from the New York Times:



Full article at: http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/charlie-hebdo-cartoon-publication-debate/

this angers me so much. this is exactly what islam(as most other religions) has to go through to get into the 21st century. If we're afraid about pushing the boundaries even now I feel, sadly, that things will never progress.
Offending the muslim population is the point. you want to offend them until it doesn't offend then anymore and at that point we've made some real progress. It's a good thing.

edit: obviously by offending I strictly mean it limited to the context of islam itself.

 

[Frodo]

I can't believe that they are still on the loose.

Will sleep tonight in hope I wake up in a world where those two were captured. Alive preferably.

 

[Darren870]

While in the Bill Maher thread I realised something.

If the religious texts of Islam and Islam itself are at fault for the Islamist terrorism we are seeing worldwide, then why wasn't it a problem a few decades ago? The texts were the same then as they are now, yet it seems more widespread of a problem in modern times. I'll pose the same question as I did in that thread, how can be explain why Islamist terrorism has become a modern phenomenon?

Nah man, he's a secret Islamist in disguise!

This is pretty obvious isn't it?

Immigration has spread
New and Media is real time

Problems were isolated to the areas and between the "holy land". Now things are spread and an image published today is spread around the world in seconds. Hate is fueled instantly and people can act locally on things they don't like due to the way migrants have spread across the world.