Great, more lame reaching for not publishing them. UK bottled it so not a surprise.
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Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.
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Thanks all, I was hoping there is more information from the French televisions as the live feeds are quite slow in updating now. It seems that they managed to get away somehow.
The people were called by name and executed for those cartoons. No matter how nuanced and complex is the situation in general and what the possible effects of this act, the reasons are very clear.
The people were called by name and executed for those cartoons. No matter how nuanced and complex is the situation in general and what the possible effects of this act, the reasons are very clear.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Front page of Valeurs Actuelles (conservative, weekly):
"France in Fear"
Islam: What if Houellebecq was Right?
"France in Fear"
Islam: What if Houellebecq was Right?
Psychotext
Member
Can't win either way though.
Miles Quaritch
Member
This is a reference to his book Submission?
I mean, it's a stupid thing to say. The social dynamics and numbers simply aren't there support such an idea.
It's a work of fiction, stupid to make such a reference.
ComputerMKII
Banned
This is a stupid cover. And inappropriate considering the last number of Charlie Hebdo was mocking his book.
For people who don't know who Houellebecq is: he's a french writer whose last novel depicts France in 2022 after an islamist political leader becomes president.
It's more Polygon Mario Kart pie graphs.Apologies if already posted, but I thought this graphic from The Economist was pretty interesting.
WTF does the gray part in the pie chart represent?
Palette Swap
Member
"Conservative" is putting it mildly TBH.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Has there been any word on the second shooting that happened? Was the guy connected to this?
The point of my posting the article isn't what the motivations are for committing these atrocities, but that Europeans as collective victims don't resort to pushing out and "blame them. Persecute them. Burn their book, attack their mosques, threaten them in the street, demand their expulsion from Western societies. Actions that, in turn, scare Western Muslims, isolate them, alienate them. And thus drive some of them to support – and even become – terrorists."
It's important we keep that in mind in our collective response. I.e. don't vote for Front National and the like in our countries.
Miles Quaritch
Member
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/01/daily-chart-2
I don't subscribe and can't set up an account right now, so hopefully someone who has an account can check to see if there's any more info for that graphic.
It's actually pretty straight forward.
Dark red what part of the population is actually Muslim.
Lighter read is what percentage the public thinks is Muslim.
Grey is the part of the population that is not Muslim.
zer0blivion
Member
I'm not familiar with his work, but I'm guessing it's referring to his 2001 book Platform and an interview he did with Lire magazine.
From wikipedia:
Google translation of the interview:
https://translate.google.com/transl...vre/michel-houellebecq_804761.html&edit-text=
He calls Islam a dangerous religion.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Michel Houellebecq's publisher says he is suspending the promotion of his new book because of the events.
haha that's not how pie charts work. grey can't be the non-muslim population because the whole circle includes a slice that represents imaginary muslims.
I'm pretty sure I didn't say that in my one sentence.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Ah, I just noticed the guide on the side. I initially thought it was a reference to terrorist attacks.
Ah, thanks for that. I thought it might be in reference to Submission, which didn't strike me as making much sense. That reference however, does make a lot more sense.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Palette Swap
Member
Good.
I love his works and writing and I'd hate for him to be viewed as somehow trying to profit from this.
Edit: ugh, Valeurs Actuelles visual overload.
Sickboy007
Member
That's just lazy.
I was showing you how publishing " 'offensive' Mohammed cartoons everyday from now on, until the butthurt subsides and a thicker skin is grown." might not be the best course of action for the regular, everyday Muslim Europeans who just want to live a normal life in Europe. As is the main argument of the article that I posted.
Well, I guess technically grey is "others/neither real nor imaginary Muslims".
I still think the intent is pretty clear. It's nowhere near the Polygon pie chart, which was very much indecipherable.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Edit: nevermind
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Grey + orange = non-Muslims (out of which the orange is imaginary Muslims). Doesn't make sense otherwise.
It'd still let them live a normal life. In fact the same life that every other religious person in Europe has to lead.
The gray part represents the percentage of population of non-Muslims that live in those countries based on what the citizens (on average) believe the Muslim population percentage is.
For example, those polled think that 31% of the population in France is Muslim, meaning that the remaining 69% (in gray) are non-Muslim. In actuality, the population of France is about 8% Muslim meaning that the remaining 92% is non-Muslim.
Do you realize that there is a lot of fear and anger and sadness that would be much better to be directed in cartoons rather than in votes? (linking this with your previous post and how you have the impression that this thread is about elections)
That publishing the cartoons is more about re-affirming that the liberty of expression can't be killed and a protest rather than a revenge?
Yeah, that's what I mean though. Dark red: Real Muslims. Light red: Imaginary, not actually Muslims. Grey: Neither imaginary nor actual Muslims. Therefore obviously: Non-Muslims: Light red + grey.
I'd argue the only real problem of that chart is that the orange part is actually the difference between imaginary and real Muslim population, so the imaginary Muslim number would be red + orange.
But everyone's doing that in their heads implicitly, probably.
Then that falls apart because they include a slice representing the true muslim population.
It's a shit pie chart. The whole circle would have to represent the actual population plus mythical muslims.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
By far the most dangerous branch of Islam
dude are you drunk or something?
It's quite fuckin straight foward
Whole circle is 100% of the population
Red is the muslim pupulation percentage
Orange is the difference between what people thought the muslim population was and the actual number
how about we go back to the subject of the thread now ?
See, in Germany, those visuals are independent of political affiliation:
Spiegel is a bit left-wing, Focus is right-wing, Stern likes tits.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Le Monde has published an article on the English-speaking media's hesitations in censoring or not censoring the Muhammad cartoons: http://www.lemonde.fr/actualite-med...ste-des-medias-anglo-saxons_4552134_3236.html
It makes perfect sense
Ignore the grey. Its merely a background to illustrate that a full circle would be 100% of the population. The red, relative to a whole circle, represents how many actual muslims there are. The lighter colour represents how many muslims the surveyed public BELIEVE there to be. The general conclusion you can draw would appear to be that sensitivity to muslim news, the media and general xenophobia have led to people across the whole of Europe believing there are more muslim people than there actually are in reality.
I agree that it can be difficult for some to interpret. For what it's worth (using the France pie chart example), the 8% actual Muslim population slice isn't next to the 31% mythical Muslim population slice. It's a part of it.
The 31% slice is made up of 8% actual Muslims and 23% mythical Muslims. In any case, the gray portion isn't meant to represent a specific group. It's meant to illustrate a general comparison of Muslim population (both real and imagined) vs the rest of the population. That's why that section is gray and unlabeled.
ComputerMKII
Banned
That's excellent, passing by on my way home to see it in person.
To explain why it's shown several times and slightly overlapping: Usually, images of the newscast's topics are shown at the beginning, with the same effect.German Tagesschau (8pm news, biggest in germany)
Stereogatari
Banned
Looking at those magazine covers makes me think that not even your average Muslim is this obsessed about Islam lol.
See, in Germany, those visuals are independent of political affiliation:
Spiegel is a bit left-wing, Focus is right-wing, Stern likes tits.
It's sad that there are many people in the world who think of all that imagery when they think of Muslims and the Muslim World.
Also the bottom right cover confuses me. A woman who is not Turkish looking at all, holding up a Turkish flag. Not to mention these are all German magazines, where Turks have their largest presence outside of Turkey, and yet none of these covers has a Turk on them.
Here's the videoGerman Tagesschau (8pm news, biggest in germany)
The Lamonster
Member
Facebook saying one of the three gunmen turned himself in? Can't find a news story...
That would be pretty bad too, as then the whole pie would do more than 100%.
Other way to look at it: the normal pie is just the red + grey.
The light red part was put on top of it (and is covered by the red, as red> light red) to show what people think.
It's the best way to represent that survey.
If you mean the gunmen from yesterday, there are only two.
The alledged third one, whose name was also put out by autorities, turned himself in yesterday (Wednesday) evening (GMT+1 time), and was apparently at school during the shooting.
maquiladora
Member
No I don't think that was one of the attackers, a suspected associate or someone connected to the men in some way, who's name was mentioned in the media, turned himself in to police this morning.
That was yesterday. It's the 18 years old one and from all accounts wasn't a gunman nor among them, he's "just" (for now) a family member.
Well, that cover is from 1997, but I really don't know what the cover is trying to show. It's definitely supposed to be Turkish, though.
As to your other argument: Well, yeah, but not each of these covers are talking about Islam within Germany. Doesn't make them better, but just FYI.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Scary, very scary times in Europe.
And I'm not talking only about terrorism, the rise of the far-right is real and this only fuels it.
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