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Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.

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G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
The twist and turns of this manhunt are kind of shocking to me. It seems like every time I check the news the attackers are up to something new and seem a step ahead of the authorities.

What kind of training did they have? :/
 
L

Lime

Member
ComputerMKII said:
To quote Michel Houellebecq in a recent interview, criticizing Islam or even mocking Muhammad isn't racist.
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Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, but you are misunderstanding the point. We are not talking about criticizing Islam in general. We are talking about the specific expressions that are racist or racially stereotypical, like some of the drawings we've seen. I.e. It's possible to be both devastated by the murders of the men at Charlie Hebdo and appalled by the racist content of some of their "satire"

Also Houellebecq is incorrect in saying that all criticism of Islam cannot be racist. Islam is constructed in especially media (which is why people think that Muslims are Middle-Eastern people). This is also why an irrational fear of Muslims gets any brown person (hindu, sikh, etc.) attacked not just muslims.

But perhaps this is something for another thread.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
marc^o^ said:
Looks like they killed 2 more policemen and wounded 20 other persons in a gunfight.
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Please don't be true and another case of journalists using shitty sources.

Lime said:
Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, but you are misunderstanding the point. We are not talking about criticizing Islam in general. We are talking about the specific expressions that are racist or racially stereotypical, like some of the drawings we've seen.
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Overall, I think Houellebecq is on point there. But yes, the trend exists where religion is used as a proxy to race and some far right parties definitely do Islam based dog whistling. As a liberal, it is infuriating as I detest racism but do think religion, and Islam above all, is a regressive force. That's why I hate the term "Islamophobia" as it uses real minority issues to shield assholes. That's also why every left leaning party in France has an ambiguous discourse on these issues, which paved the way for FN.
 
D

dreamlock

The hero Los Santos deserves
UPDATE EDIT3: False information. Any casualties have been denied by public prosecutors:
Prosecutors deny reports of casualties in hunt for Paris massacre suspects
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https://twitter.com/afp

Fuck. It's true. http://www.leparisien.fr/

Two dead, 20 wounded.

EDIT: Please be the suspects that got killed...though other news agencies are reporting about a possible hostage situation now.

EDIT2: translation from leparisien -- unconfirmed as of yet. I haven't seen any credible news sources yet.

The hunt intensifies this Friday in the southern departments of Aisne and Oise to find the Kouachi brothers French jihadists suspected of carrying out the killing Wednesday Charlie Hebdo. Shots were fired Dammartin-en-Goële (Seine-et-Marne) killing two and 20 wounded. The two suspects are holed up in a company where they hold several people.
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G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sky News just said the police and 'hostages' were exchanging fire... misspoken, or were the hostages being forced to fire at the police from the car?

Terrible stuff anyway.
 
S

Slaythe

Member
Just to clear things up :

- It IS the brothers

- There is only one hostage confirmed

- They are 30 minutes away from the place the police was sent to yesterday

- nothing has happened yet, they want to try negotiation, no fire.

As for Charlie Hebdo, they were not hitting on minorities, they were hitting on every single class, religion, and politician. And the leader was dating a woman with mixed origins so yeah they were hardly racist. They just refused to play the games of terrorists. They got bombed because of the mahomet drawing before but in no way was this the only thing they did.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
Jb said:
As long as it isn't hate speech or holocaust denial (both of which are illegal here), it's actually fairly simple: if you're offended, angered or just distraught because somebody wrote something that upset you, you're at liberty to respond to it however you like as long as it doesn't involve violence, which is the state's monopoly.

If you can't deal with it you're free to find another society in the world that shields you from intellectual harm.

Also, the cartoons weren't about a minority in France, they were about a radical section of a 1.25B strong religion. There's a fucking difference.
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Don't know where that last part came from, but my main issue is how, ironically, people are using this situation to shield the company from criticism about their product. Feeling horror for the events and criticizing problematic cartoons from the publication are not, and should not, be mutually exclusive.

Slaythe said:
As for Charlie Hebdo, they were not hitting on minorities, they were hitting on every single class, religion, and politician. And the leader was dating a woman with mixed origins so yeah they were hardly racist. They just refused to play the games of terrorists. They got bombed because of the mahomet drawing before but in no way was this the only thing they did.
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So... you can't be racist if you're dating a minority? And I don't quite buy the "we make fun of everybody, therefore our individual mockeries are exempt from criticism".


Regardless of all that I've said before, now's probably not the time of have this sort of discussion. I seriously hope the hostages come out okay. It's way too early in the year for this shit, seriously, can we get a good, clean result here?
 
M

Mimosa97

Member
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G

GasProblem

Member
Yeah, also reading that 2 people got killes and 20 hurt during a firefight, and that the suspects entered a office building and that there are multiple hostages. Wonder how many :/
 
C

ComputerMKII

Banned
Slaythe said:
Just to clear things up :

- It IS the brothers

- There is only one hostage confirmed

- They are 30 minutes away from the place the police was sent to yesterday

- nothing has happened yet, they want to try negotiation, no fire.

As for Charlie Hebdo, they were not hitting on minorities, they were hitting on every single class, religion, and politician. And the leader was dating a woman with mixed origins so yeah they were hardly racist. They just refused to play the games of terrorists. They got bombed because of the mahomet drawing before but in no way was this the only thing they did.
Click to expand...

I wish those situations were as easy as video games where one or two well-placed sniper shots would have solved the situation :/
 
J

Joni

Member
Jumplion said:
Don't know where that last part came from, but my main issue is how, ironically, people are using this situation to shield the company from criticism about their product. Feeling horror for the events and criticizing problematic cartoons from the publication are not, and should not, be mutually exclusive.
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The averse reaction to shield the company is coming from the fact many people worldwide are saying they somehow deserved it because of the cartoons.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
Joni said:
The averse reaction to shield the company is coming from the fact many people worldwide are saying they somehow deserved it because of the cartoons.
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I haven't seen any reaction like that. But now's not the time to have that discussion so I'll shut up now, things are seriously too volatile right now to have any good come from it with tensions this high.
 
K

keuja

Member
All the kids of the town are now locked up in their school for security...

Some schools are apparently located just a few hundreds meter from there.
 
S

SuicidalSteve

Member
BBC saying that there is no confirmation of any hostage taking at the moment....

EDIT: oh and now saying reports are coming in about it ...damn :(
 
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