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Texas Republican Party Drafts New Platform Advocating For 'Ex-Gay Therapy'
- Thread starter Protein
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Unfortunately, they stand a good chance of taking the Senate this year
How the hell does this happen?
OK. But being a member of a party that had repeatedly been on the wrong side of history and a long proud tradition of discrimination, seems only to empower that problem.
There really is no reason for anyone who isn't a rich white straight Christian male to be republican.
How the hell does this happen?
Money.
Lots and lots of money.
I've been seeing ads about voting my democratic senator out for MONTHS already. He is as good as gone with the millions of dollars pouring into the state for ads.
Blackage
Member
How the hell does this happen?
Money and taking advantage of the Obama administration's more public blunders over the past 2 years.
Hold on a sec. I don't believe for one second that there are gay folk out there that have some internal hang up to being gay. So what's the difference between the availability of gender reassignment surgery, and something like this? What if someone wants to not be gay? Give them no option?
Seems hypocritical to champion the rights of gays to be free to be who they are, whether they suffer from gender dysmorphia or not; and not make available some option for the opposite.
Just a thought. I mean, it doesn't sound like they are forcing gays into de-homosexualization camps or something.
Seems hypocritical to champion the rights of gays to be free to be who they are, whether they suffer from gender dysmorphia or not; and not make available some option for the opposite.
Just a thought. I mean, it doesn't sound like they are forcing gays into de-homosexualization camps or something.
That's a broad generalization, tho. Certainly you can't think that that's the one blanket statement that actually is accurate.
Monocle
Member
You don't think being shamed and marginalized every day might take a toll on people? You think brainwashing under the guise of therapy is the solution to pervasive homophobia in society? Maybe we should encourage racial minorities to get skin bleaching treatments. That would definitely solve the problem of racism.
What?
You are arguing for something that doesn't exist. You can't reassign someone's sexuality, and attempts to do so have been psychologically damaging. Especially as it usually involves someone's kid being sent somewhere to pray the gay away.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
Ex-gay therapy is an ineffective and damaging pseudoscience that has been rejected by every reputable medical association in the country.
for what other reason would queer people want to not be queer anymore? why else would we be so afraid to come out and be ourselves? why are some of us filled with self-loathing over the thought of deviating from the norm?
honestly i think crumpet's post is about as accurate as it gets.
Supermanisdead
Member
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
mario kart 8 will never cease to impressbye. i prayed away my gay
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Is this serious? Am I reading this right?
Look, I was just looking at in in a devils advocate capacity. If it doesn't work that's fine. I was just suggesting that if there WAS a way, it probably shouldn't be dismissed outright, given the lengths to which people can go to help them in the opposite way.
But I agree, if the therapy was damaging then its probably not worth doing.
Supermanisdead
Member
Monocle
Member
There aren't always two sides to an issue. Homosexuality isn't a problem that needs to be solved. That whole line of thinking is toxic.
Next thing you'll say is that we should lobotomize the mentally ill. Also homosexually is not a disease...why are approaching it from this angle???
I'm not suggesting that there is anything abnormal about being gay. At all. But if the lead singer of Against Me! can feel like he should have been a woman to the point where he had gender reassignment surgery, then its not impossible that someone could feel that way about being gay. Like Julian in The Shield(yes I know that's a tv show)
kitchenmotors
Banned
If there was a way to turn people straight, do you realize how dangerous something like that could be? I don't feel like I need to be changed, because I'm happy with being gay. I don't want to be straight even if there was a way to do so.
Monocle
Member
You have it twisted. A trans person transitioning is the equivalent of a gay person embracing life out of the closet. Different steps toward the same goal of accepting one's identity.
DemurOnion
Banned
I obviously don't/can't speak for the entire LBGTQ community, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the way that trans people feel about their gender (feeling like their body is wrong, or missing things, etc), isn't comparable to the way some queer folks feel self-loathing and wish that they could be straight instead.
One of those is about correcting the way you look and feel to soothe your mind and soul, and the other is about correcting the way you act or think in order to make other people more comfortable around you.
fake edit: Monocle nailed it.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I can understand what you're saying, but the American Medical Association considers gender reassignment surgery a necessary medical procedure. It's different than feeling the pressures and vilification of anti-gay sentiment.
representative government
I'm not suggesting any such thing.
Nor should you. I'm glad we live in a time that's way more accepting to gays as a society(its nowhere near perfect, but there has been great strides).
But we live in a world where a man can decide to become a woman, a woman can become a man,a white dude can turn himself "Korean", a woman can become a Barbie doll, and a man can turn himself into a leopard. But if for whatever reason a gay person wants to be straight, that's the line we can't cross?
Seems kinda hypocritical.
makingmusic476
Member
I'm trying to imagine how it would be possible.
A transgendered individual is one whose mental perception of themselves differs from their biological sex. It's an issue of biology wherein the mind develops inconsistently with the rest of the body. SRS is intended to make the body match the brain.
How would a person attracted to the same sex have some independent perception of themselves wherein they shouldn't be attracted to the same sex? It's seem like an incongruency residing solely within their own brain, and it seems like an incongruency that would only develop from external force (ie, society repeatedly telling them they should be straight), which is exactly the sort of thing that leads to depression and suicide.
Edit:
Monocle's post was much better.
A trans woman is not a man who becomes a woman, you don't understand what being trans means.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
At this point, how can anyone be Republican by definition? Even if you believe in the values of Republican, we are way waaaaay past those traditional ideals. What the Republican was, is dead now. I'm just so sick of this discrimination.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Ugh, what is this? You have a lot of reading to do on gender reassignment surgery and trans experiences.
the reasons someone would want to be straight are a hell of a lot more damaging than the reasons for wanting your physical sex to match your gender, and again, are not comparable.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Seriously, holy shit.
Monocle
Member
It's pretty insulting to conflate serious identity issues with recreational body modification. There's a clear difference that's worth learning about, because whether you realize it or not, this subject affects someone close to you. Everyone knows an LGBT person. Is it any wonder so many of us stay hidden when we have to deal with such misguided attitudes?
Circle Jerk
Member
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but I sure as hell won't stop! Devils advocate!
Also you are a legitimate scumbag, and no amount of "I don't believe what I'm saying, but I'm just going to keep tripling down on it" will save you from that.
You are confusing a whole load of different things, and you risk offending people if you keep at it.
Angry Fork
Member
On accepting neoliberalism as the final and best system for whatever they think is best.
Nobody doubts they're different on social issues. Dems are still pussies on things like prostitution though.
Puppet Shadow
Member
I'm going to ask this in here as it's something I've always wondered (and it's not worth creating just a thread for it).
If I'm born a man yet feel I should have been a women, and I go through the surgery required to align my body with my mind... does this mean I will most likely be attracted to men? In other words, do men do this to become women, then see themselves as lesbians and date other women? (and vice versa for women who have this surgery).
I guess I'm asking if there are people who are both trans and gay.
Sorry for the OT, but it's a sincere question I've always been curious about.
If I'm born a man yet feel I should have been a women, and I go through the surgery required to align my body with my mind... does this mean I will most likely be attracted to men? In other words, do men do this to become women, then see themselves as lesbians and date other women? (and vice versa for women who have this surgery).
I guess I'm asking if there are people who are both trans and gay.
Sorry for the OT, but it's a sincere question I've always been curious about.
First of all, thanks to everyone for having a calm discussion about this. I know I may have came in here looking not so genuine but I really do appreciate the level headed discussion.
I understand the the trans phenomena as described above, and i realize my "turn into" statement came off weird, i was just looking for brevity.
Perhaps it is impossible, but I don't assume to know the limits to how people can think. Just keeping an open mind is all.
I understand the the trans phenomena as described above, and i realize my "turn into" statement came off weird, i was just looking for brevity.
Perhaps it is impossible, but I don't assume to know the limits to how people can think. Just keeping an open mind is all.
There absolutely are, but gender and sexuality are different, so who you see yourself as, and what you're attracted to are not really related at all.
Circle Jerk
Member
You aren't keeping an open mind, you're supporting a dangerous, extraordinary, closed minded system that follows rigid gender roles and abuses their patients so they too will fit into a very small minded view of how people should be.
To be clear, I'm not supporting any sort of harmful "treatments" suggested by political parties. I really kinda went off topic to discuss the possibilities of other things. My apologies if anyone thought I was supporting a dangerous treatment for the wrong reasons.
CornBurrito
Member
Being ugly also isn't a problem that needs to be solved. But I still think we should be free to pursue plastic surgery to improve our physical appearance.
That said, ex-gay therapy has been shown to be ineffective and harmful. For that reason I wouldn't find my own devil's advocate comparison to plastic surgery valid.
Also, jond has been fairly reasonable. Having read his posts, he isn't advocating for this sort of therapy. He just felt that it should be available to people who wanted it. Which I think would be a perfectly valid stance if it wasn't shown to be psychologically damaging.
rocketknight
Member
I get the feeling that people's pushback to jond76's posts have more to do with his backwards (or at the very least ignorant) views about trans people, and the way those are the foundation for his stance on conversion therapy. I don't think comparing trans people to leopard men (?) and deliberate misgendering are going to be part of any kind of productive discussion about the fairly specific topic of the thread. There was certainly more in his posts to object to than a simple wrong opinion on pray-away-the-gay practices.
Circle Jerk
Member
What an absurd thing to say.
This was your first mistake.
When has devil's advocacy ever done any conversation any favors? So can people stop engaging in it?! Someone who ACTUALLY has that question in earnest will ask it, you don't need to do them the favor.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think the leopard man and race changing comment showed that wasn't as "devil's advocate" as we may have hoped.
CornBurrito
Member
Sorry. But if there were a way to change sexual orientation that didn't cause physical or psychological damage I would see no reason to restrict someone's personal freedom to make such a choice.
My point was, barring the damaging nature of ex-gay therapy, people should be able to choose what to do for themselves. But people in this thread are telling me that it's impossible for someone who is gay to wish they weren't gay. And to declare that one person can think to know how everyone else in a group thinks, is as strange to me as someone's stating that they know for a fact that there is no other life in the universe.
That's all I ever meant.
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