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The Black Culture Thread |OT12| Days of Future Bans

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Crocodile

Member
You're missing the point. They took a metric ton of abuse. From the moment they engaged that particular base with their hand out for help, they got it good from those that had an axe to grind for the depiction of their characters, and those that felt entitled to content for a game that they had already bought. Both groups had open dialogue and avenues to express needs beyond reason. A certain sense of leverage (if not ownership) of their product became the common narrative, and you can see it in every single place that they engage the userbase. Often down to design decisions and needing fan approval (see the current protag debacle for a glimpse at that shit show). It really doesn't matter if you don't like the way I say it, or if you even agree. The reality is that they are in the same jam that they were in two years ago because they didn't take care of business. And as a result two year old beef is a factor in their desperation game not getting funded.

A) What is this group that had either bought Skullgirls or donated to the IGG but had such issues with the characters as to be trouble makers?
B) How have people expressed undue ownage of that IP?
C) What design decisions were made to the detriment of the game due to fan pressure?
D) What protagonist debacle? The biggest issue has been some publishers showing how little shit they are by getting cold feet over dark skinned protags.
E) What business did they not take care of? How is this affecting this campaign in a noticeable way?

A big part of crowdfunding is community interaction. Part of what that entails is the development of a community and frequent interaction with the developers. Hell I post over at the official Bloodstained forums and frequently talk with the Fangamer staff who are holding down the fort until the true community manger comes on board. I'm certainly not everywhere on the internet but I have been following Lab Zero since Skullgirls, I've talked with some of their members several times, I watched their streams, etc. I've been "in the trenches" so to speak and I have no idea what you're talking about - I could count the number of people I've encountered that might fit one of your boxes on probably one hand over the years and any community salt that may have existed dissipated years ago. Furthermore, the only thing I can figure out you think they should have done differently is not interact with people? Because that's contrary to how crowdfunding projects work in general. As such, I'm just left really confused by all your posts. I hope I'm not coming off as rude, again I'm just really confused.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Man. I remember when Skullgirls first came out and I dismissed it as being some western attempt at a waifu fighting game. Then I saw it being played in person and gave it a second look, eventually buying it on both PSN and Steam. So now we're back to it being a waifu game?
 

double jump

you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
I brought 2nd encore day 1 and haven't played it seriously yet.
I only made it halfway threw the tutorial. I personally love the art and characters.
Just been playing the hell out of mkx and haven't given SG my time yet.
If someone wants to practice sometime I'm down.
 

D i Z

Member
A) What is this group that had either bought Skullgirls or donated to the IGG but had such issues with the characters as to be trouble makers?
B) How have people expressed undue ownage of that IP?
C) What design decisions were made to the detriment of the game due to fan pressure?
D) What protagonist debacle? The biggest issue has been some publishers showing how little shit they are by getting cold feet over dark skinned protags.
E) What business did they not take care of? How is this affecting this campaign in a noticeable way?

A big part of crowdfunding is community interaction. Part of what that entails is the development of a community and frequent interaction with the developers. Hell I post over at the official Bloodstained forums and frequently talk with the Fangamer staff who are holding down the fort until the true community manger comes on board. I'm certainly not everywhere on the internet but I have been following Lab Zero since Skullgirls, I've talked with some of their members several times, I watched their streams, etc. I've been "in the trenches" so to speak and I have no idea what you're talking about - I could count the number of people I've encountered that might fit one of your boxes on probably one hand over the years and any community salt that may have existed dissipated years ago. Furthermore, the only thing I can figure out you think they should have done differently is not interact with people? Because that's contrary to how crowdfunding projects work in general. As such, I'm just left really confused by all your posts. I hope I'm not coming off as rude, again I'm just really confused.

I'm not blowing you off, but there is a 38 page thread on this very site already covering all of this and the links that I used previously also cover how this all jumped off to begin with. I think I've provided more than enough historical context, all really simple to understand if you're not catching feeling about it. It's Friday night, and I don't come to BCT to bang my head against a wall. Got OT for that.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
I just thought it looked like a cool game with an awesome protagonist so I donated in hopes it would get funded.

Crowd funding is always drama.
 

Crocodile

Member
Didn't like the look of it..I'll have to try it out sometime.

Aesthetics aren't for everybody but game is legit. If you try it out I hope you have fun.

I'm not blowing you off, but there is a 38 page thread on this very site already covering all of this and the links that I used previously also cover how this all jumped off to begin with. I think I've provided more than enough historical context, all really simple to understand if you're not catching feeling about it.

I already told you I was there from day one. There isn't anything you can tell me about how this has all played out that I don't already know. The only signs that their might be some audience problem all boil down to some anecdotal evidence and we all know the issue with using that right? My experiences with interacting with people who actually enjoyed and played the game tell me differently. Anecdotal evidence cancels out anecdotal evidence which is always the issue. I reject the notion that there is a significant number (obviously there is a non-zero number) of people who backed Skullgrils but wouldn't Indivisible due solely to character design. Furthermore, I can't at all parse from your posts what they should have done differently or what they did that was widely different from how most crowdfunding campaigns work for you to say "brought it on themselves". It also feels like you are saying things happened that didn't actually happen (What design decisions explicitly are you talking about? What instances did they seek fan approval that was an issue?). The situation isn't confusing to me, I'm just not sure what explicitly you're talking about/what you're suggesting they should've dome is the issue.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
People were just happy that Reagan was gone. Bush was like a breath of fresh moderate Republican air. Air that wasn't blessed by the Christian Coalition.

He's got bodies buried somewhere too.

Shhhhiiittt for sure, he came from those old school republicans that made doing dirty an science.

Word?

Only things I knew about him was his beef with the simpsons and vomiting over some emperor.
and of course being head of the cia when the war on drugs and crack epidemic was taking place
.

Also:

12193481_1090734540939169_457327215322652935_n.jpg
 
I brought 2nd encore day 1 and haven't played it seriously yet.
I only made it halfway threw the tutorial. I personally love the art and characters.
Just been playing the hell out of mkx and haven't given SG my time yet.
If someone wants to practice sometime I'm down.

If you got it on Steam, I'll be down.

Pls no PSN download speeds.
 

D i Z

Member
Aesthetics aren't for everybody but game is legit. If you try it out I hope you have fun.



I already told you I was there from day one. There isn't anything you can tell me about how this has all played out that I don't already know. The only signs that their might be some audience problem all boil down to some anecdotal evidence and we all know the issue with using that right? My experiences with interacting with people who actually enjoyed and played the game tell me differently. Anecdotal evidence cancels out anecdotal evidence which is always the issue. I reject the notion that there is a significant number (obviously there is a non-zero number) of people who backed Skullgrils but wouldn't Indivisible due solely to character design. Furthermore, I can't at all parse from your posts what they should have done differently or what they did that was widely different from how most crowdfunding campaigns work for you to say "brought it on themselves". It also feels like you are saying things happened that didn't actually happen (What design decisions explicitly are you talking about? What instances did they seek fan approval that was an issue?). The situation isn't confusing to me, I'm just not sure what explicitly you're talking about/what you're suggesting they should've dome is the issue.

You keep telling me there is nothing that I can tell you that you don't already know and that you aren't trying to be rude. Yet you keep asking me to tell you ...something.
So here's something.
What I believe they did wrong and should stop doing if they ever want to progress past being broke and on the brink of collapse but still have their dreams. Excuse my grammar while I multitask for a second...

1) Putting up design concepts every step of the way for approve from the fans that they have, rather than working designs for a larger base that can sustain them.
Example: SG is a great game, but for a massive chunk of potential audience it looks like ass. That's a problem. And one that could have been resolved.
As a designer myself, I'm not a fan of letting the fanbase in on design in progress.
The yes's will far out weigh the no's because you've got the wrong eyeballs on the project.
What makes them happy is almost always narrow and limited and ain't going to help the project grow.

2) Opening a dialogue about design changes (red cross, panties, etc) to the fanbase gives them more leverage to whine about it than they need, and entirely too much room to be feeling some kind of way.
Of course any change needs to be explained or addressed. But leave it at that.
All of these small pockets of discontent in high traffic web areas that you'd rather reduce to anecdotal evidence eventually add up. Web searches can be the death of a project that has been under fire.

3) Even participating in discussions with the community about funding troubles & speculation about conflicts with prospective publishers that might or might not have issue with certain ethnic designs is dumb. It just doesn't fly.
Not if a team is actually looking to ever get any publisher support in the future. Certainly not when they're looking for a lifeline to keep the doors open.


4) Itemizing their development costs for the dlc to appease fan outrage and setting a bad precedent and baseline for themselves by cutting labor deals in the process.
It sets a minimum expectation for themselves, and a maximum in the minds of the end user.
Essentially stating how little the job can be done for and being so close to the fanbase, what they can expect from you. Worse still, what they can expect from others.

There are reasons why that's just not done. It's bad business for anyone when they need to go back to the well with rising costs and new projects.
People remember the troubles. People lose trust in them being competent.
Nobody new is giving money to a team that they remember getting bullied into releasing their financial situation to a bunch of angry keyboard jockeys.
It made them look like desperate junkies begging for cash for the next fix.
And the last thing a team needs in the middle of their first campaign is to have backs against the wall, and being strong-armed publicly by the masses into explaining costs.

5) It's also bad for everyone else in the same position that might be trying to attract the attention of that userbase coming in under these set preconceptions of cost and labor.
The only people that can get away with selling a product as the parts and labor that compose it are car dealers. They dictate the price, and have all the power to negotiate.

All of these things signify to me a reliance upon a limited but loyal pool to sustain them, and a comfort zone that is too small for growth.
They're first crowdfunded project was a nightmare, so of course they do it all over again with the same userbase. Makes total sense.
If they spent more time addressing the issues of why people aren't picking up the last good game, and less on the folks that already have, they might have had a shot with a new campaign.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see them succeed. Indivisible was fun to play, even if just for a little while. But they haven't done themselves any favors.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ry-for-halloween-blackface-costume/?tid=sm_tw

Native American leader who wants R*dskins removed wears an ironic Halloween costume. Is it that fucking tempting?


It's like raaaaaaaiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnn

loooooooool

“Natives out here trying to fight cultural appropriation and stereotypes but then our chairman is doing this?” one man commented on Facebook on Sunday morning. “It’s 2015 get out of here with that #blackface. SMH” (shake my head).
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Thanks dude! Look forward to playing this.



I feel bad for laughing.
Man, that dude from the Farmer's commercial really makes the game. Click all the buttons to hear him speak. And they really improved the mechanics. That jell and the lightbeams are a great improvement. Hope to see another. All these games, and I keep going back to old ones.
 

zeemumu

Member
You can't blame everything on her.

I can, though.
Seriously though, why are people going nuts over trailers? It's not like watching the trailer is going to make the game come out any faster.

With the way that Kingdom Hearts is, we go after every little scrap of information. Hell, a lot of people are pissed that they haven't even announced a release date for a mobile game. A MOBILE GAME. The only one who's got any amount of info on it is Malyse and look what he became. He's corrupted by Kingdom Hearts.
 

Slayven

Member
What about these guys The Next Men, people with special powers in a world that hates and fears them

nextmen-1294357943.jpg


They are lead by a guy that needs to wear special glasses, that is some next level shit
 
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