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[Meus Renaissance]

Its called self hate sweetheart. Being told you are ugly for decades does that to you. Why do they call black women bitches but not white women bitches? come on, now..

This perception of beauty exists in some black societies as well. But it's not exclusive to this point about facial features. A few months ago I read an article where women in India where being shunned for modelling roles in favour for lighter skinned women. This can't be tagged for cultural influences because, at least in that example, lighter skin has been equated to femininity for quite a while. I wonder if it relates to some women having a preference for darker skin men. Does darker skin colour suggest masculinity to us?

Interesting topic as a whole

 

[kodecraft]

Black women hate their hair, let's just be honest folks. If someone created a product that made black women's hair like that of white or East Asian women, that guy would be richer than Bill Gates.

+1

Have you seen the movie "Good Hair" by Chris Rock....that movie confirms this.

 

[Londa]

This perception of beauty exists in some black societies as well. But it's not exclusive to this point about facial features. A few months ago I read an article where women in India where being shunned for modelling roles in favour for lighter skinned women. This can't be tagged for cultural influences because, at least in that example, lighter skin has been equated to femininity for quite a while. I wonder if it relates to some women having a preference for darker skin men. Does darker skin colour suggest masculinity to us?

Interesting topic as a whole

We are talking about what black men like, not what the whole world likes. This is a black culture thread. So I'm not being closed minded by only focusing on the topic at hand. Infact, I believe you are being off topic with every new comment. But then again, you are trying to make people believe that it isn't self hate or the fact that blacks have been told that their natural features are ugly. Its just a fact that they are ugly and shouldn't be mad that no one finds them attractive. Give me a break.

 

[Measley]

Its called self hate sweetheart. Being told you are ugly for decades does that to you. Why do they call black women bitches but not white women bitches? come on, now..

Pretty much this.

Thing is, its still going on. I see little black girls with white baby dolls. Its subtle brainwashing.

 

[SmokyDave]

Black. Natural. Beautiful*.

Grace Jones > Preconceptions.

*as in, this woman was a benchmark for all female beauty when I was a child. Most striking model ever?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

all black americans are mixed with something. This isn't news. lol



What is funny is, a white celebrity also has fake hair in her head. But no one will question it because their white. But I don't know any celebrity that doesn't put fake extentions in their hair. But it's such a big deal with a black woman does it. However, I believe I rather see their natural hair, than a weave or wig. But it isn't true that all beautiful black women have straight noses and are wearing fake hair.

Because it isn't so much about whether the hair is fake or not in this context, but rather if it's straight or "nappy". The fact that so many black women wear these weaves adds more poignancy to what it is that is under these wigs. It's a shame because the afro on women is quite nice actually.

I'd be genuinely interested if you could find me some photographs of attractive black women who do not have - what I think - universally appealing traits of beauty in regards to facial feature.

 

[kodecraft]

all black americans are mixed with something. This isn't news. lol

Not news...just a reminder since it was brought up by you to make a point...since its not news.

 

[Boombloxer]

Black women hate their hair, let's just be honest folks. If someone created a product that made black women's hair like that of white or East Asian women, that guy would be richer than Bill Gates.

This is a dumb statement.

They hate doing their hair themselves in some cases because the style they want isn't easy, but hate their hair? Nah. That's one of the best parts about being black, it's easy to change.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that white women don't get extensions, etc, or have other issues. Platinum blond hair is usually dyed, and that takes a toll as well.

I'd be genuinely interested if you could find me some photographs of attractive black women who do not have - what I think - universally appealing traits of beauty in regards to facial feature.

Joke post? Google Ethiopian women, come back and apologize.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The hair point is a complaint black mothers have. Interestingly, it seems more common to see a black man with a white wife than a white man with a black wife. But black men don't care what hairstyle their kids are going to have. If you have an equally attractive black women (compared to a white girl), then how rational is it to say that they'll choose the white girl simply because she has white skin? You're indirectly accusing these black men of some hardcore racism. Shit, even racists have their views because they class behaviour with skin colour but in this case you're suggesting black men don't like black women simply because their skin colour is X and not Y. That makes -20 sense.

it doesn't make sense. i agree. to some black men and women, it makes all the sense in the world.

So really, the Pacific Islander is the ideal of beauty? Works for me.

Middle Eastern Female is higher.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

We are talking about what black men like, not what the whole world likes. This is a black culture thread. So I'm not being closed minded by only focusing on the topic at hand. Infact, I believe you are being off topic with every new comment. But then again, you are trying to make people believe that it isn't self hate or the fact that blacks have been told that their natural features are ugly. Its just a fact that they are ugly and shouldn't be mad that no one finds them attractive. Give me a break.

'What black men like' turned into a discussion of beauty in general. My argument is that this position of self-hatred, presumably because of the influences of a white-majority society, does not hold water when you take into account these perceptions also exist in black societies. So although there can be examples of simple self-hate, I don't believe you can generalise it across the board. But it's an opinion and I have no problem with others disagreeing.

 

[kodecraft]

This is a dumb statement.

They hate doing their hair themselves in some cases because the style they want isn't easy, but hate their hair? Nah. That's one of the best parts about being black, it's easy to change.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that white women don't get extensions, etc, or have other issues. Platinum blond hair is usually dyed, and that takes a toll as well.

Watch the movie Good Hair, it might be an ignorant statement but its said a few times by black women in that documentary.

 

[Londa]

Because it isn't so much about whether the hair is fake or not in this context, but rather if it's straight or "nappy". The fact that so many black women wear these weaves adds more poignancy to what it is that is under these wigs. It's a shame because the afro on women is quite nice actually.

I'd be genuinely interested if you could find me some photographs of attractive black women who do not have - what I think - universally appealing traits of beauty in regards to facial feature.

I'm sure you can search for yourself. I don't have to do it for you.

The fact that so many black women wear these weaves adds more poignancy to what it is that is under these wigs.

So why don't you think the same when a white woman does it? lol Even kim kardashian wears weaves. All those pop singers? They wear weave and wigs. But when a black woman does it, you sit there and think about the hair hidden underneath. smh

'What black men like' turned into a discussion of beauty in general. My argument is that this position of self-hatred, presumably because of the influences of a white-majority society, does not hold water when you take into account these perceptions also exist in black societies. So although there can be examples of simple self-hate, I don't believe you can generalise it across the board. But it's an opinion and I have no problem with others disagreeing.

Which you started in a black culture thread and continue to harp on with every post. But you can easily go into the thread that is focused on international beauty instead. It's still on the first page, mind you. But no, you want to come in here and continue to slip into every comment that its just that black women really are ugly. So they should just accept their fate in the world.

 

[kodecraft]

So why don't you think the same when a white woman does it? lol Even kim kardashian wears weaves. All those pop singers? They wear weave and wigs. But when a black woman does it, you sit there and think about the hair hidden underneath. smh

I think that comes from the fact that one week she can have a Halle Berry short hair style and the very next week her hair is on some Beyonce ish. Changing that drastically draws attention...plus its known in the black community.

When white/pop sensations do it....i believe it comes off as "hidden"...weave on white women doesn't stand out like weave on black women.



You know this ish!!

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Joke post? Google Ethiopian women, come back and apologize.

I think you misunderstood my remark. Londa and I were discussing this point of facial features; nappy hair, straight noses etc. I said all beautiful women, irrespective of their colour, share similar facial features. Londa countered that there are beautiful women who do not fit that description. East African women tend to fit that description, which is probably why some cultures in East Africa perceive the opposite as unattractive.

 

[Dead Man]

it doesn't make sense. i agree. to some black men and women, it makes all the sense in the world.



Middle Eastern Female is higher.

So it is, I fail. Still happy with that though, those Persian women, so fine.

 

[Londa]

I think that comes from the fact that one week she can have a Halle Berry short hair style and the very next week her hair is on some Beyonce ish. Changing that drastically draws attention...plus its known in the black community.
When white/pop sensations do it....i believe it comes off as "hidden"...weave on white women doesn't stand out like weave on black women.



You know this ish!!

Britney did this very thing and no one told her to take off her wig. lol

 

[Measley]

This is a dumb statement.

They hate doing their hair themselves in some cases because the style they want isn't easy, but hate their hair? Nah. That's one of the best parts about being black, it's easy to change.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that white women don't get extensions, etc, or have other issues. Platinum blond hair is usually dyed, and that takes a toll as well.

I have a black sister, and I'm married to a white woman. I see the difference man, and its night and day. Yeah, white women get hair extensions, but its nothing compared to the personal hell that black women deal with every day to look "presentable" to society at large.

 

[Boombloxer]

Watch the movie Good Hair, it might be an ignorant statement but its said a few times by black women in that documentary.

I've seen the movie, however, I have also have more reference to pull from than a film.

I have sisters. Know other black women that do hair. Not to mention my wife.

The doing of the hair sucks, and depending on what you want, can take a while. That's the hassle.

Perhaps you should go investigate more instead using one movie as your only reference.

My argument is that this position of self-hatred, presumably because of the influences of a white-majority society, does not hold water when you take into account these perceptions also exist in black societies.

This opinion ignores the fact that it took centuries of slavery, colonization and consistent reinforcement through both general society and media through every age telling you that your particular features are ugly, 3/5ths human, more like a beast/monkey/gorilla/ape/savage, and that the ideal beauty and the one you should aspire to, is that of your enslavers/oppressors. Even thought slavery is over and has been for a long time, the media continues to reinforce that ideal.

You can have an opinion, but you're ignoring facts here.

I see the difference man, and its night and day. Yeah, white women get hair extensions, but its nothing compared to the personal hell that black women deal with every day to look "presentable" to society at large.

Presentable, not really--style difference, sure, it can take more effort, but whenever my wife and I head out, she doesn't take any longer than the other ethnicities I've dated. That's women more or less.

 

[MWS Natural]

The European standard of beauty leading to attraction has something to do with it but that's not the whole story. Tim Wise and a few other others have a theory that "whiteness" is seen as something of value or property. That's why statistically a minority has to make so much more than his white male counterpart to attract a white woman. Or the reason white people consistently vote against the economic interests. They can be just as poor as their black counterparts but are somehow still immune to class politics. When comparing an equally matched white and black women the white woman wins out because her "whiteness" is seen as something of value. If you don't agree with me just turn on the news the next time a white woman is killed/goes missing. A black woman of the same social class goes missing and I might not even see her on the back of a milk carton.

 

[kodecraft]

I've seen the movie, however, I have also have more reference to pull from than a film.

Perhaps you should go investigate more instead using one movie as your only referernce.

Nah I think I have made my point....I have real world experience with this train of thought also not just a movie.

 

[kodecraft]

The European standard of beauty leading to attraction has something to do with it but that's not the whole story. Tim Wise and a few other others have a theory that "whiteness" is seen as something of value or property. That's why statistically a minority has to make so much more than his white male counterpart to attract a white woman. Or the reason white people consistently vote against the economic interests. They can be just as poor as their black counterparts but are somehow still immune to class politics. When comparing an equally matched white and black women the white woman wins out because her "whiteness" is seen as something of value. If you don't agree with me just turn on the news the next time a white woman is killed/goes missing. A black woman of the same social class goes missing and I might not even see her on the back of a milk carton.

I was waiting on someone to "break it down" like this.


+1

 

[Measley]

Presentable, not really--style difference, sure, it can take more effort, but whenever my wife and I head out, she doesn't take any longer than the other ethnicities I've dated. That's women more or less.

My wife jumps in the shower, washes her hair and lets it dry. You're telling me that the average black woman can do the same thing?

 

[kodecraft]

My wife jumps in the shower, washes her hair and lets it dry. You're telling me that the average black woman can do the same thing?

Ha...oh shi#...

 

[Meus Renaissance]

I'm sure you can search for yourself. I don't have to do it for you.

You made the remark so it'd be helpful if you want it support your opinion. If you

So why don't you think the same when a white woman does it? lol Even kim kardashian wears weaves. All those pop singers? They wear weave and wigs. But when a black woman does it, you sit there and think about the hair hidden underneath. smh

Not sure what your point is. You can find a video (I'll even link it to you if you want to see it rather than telling you find it yourself) of Malcolm X giving a speech to a gathering of black women talking to them about this very subject, referring to hair and nose etc - telling them not to hate their identities, that they are beautiful as they look. Many black women do have curly, or nappy hair, and they resort to get it consistently straightened with sometimes dangerous chemicals - spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars and even applying the same treatments to daughters at a very young age. This isn't comparable to a woman with naturally straight hair waking up in the morning with messy hair and thus needing to comb it. This issue, because of its intensive and extensive use, is unique within our black communities to the point it was being spoken of 50 years ago amidst the civil rights debates.

But you're suggesting otherwise? I don't care whether they straighten their hair or dye it pink - the point is there is this strong belief that nappy hair is not attractive/as attractive as straight hair and thus try to change it. I don't know why you need to become so defensive about it. If you disagree, then you disagree.

Which you started in a black culture thread and continue to harp on with every post. But you can easily go into the thread that is focused on international beauty instead. It's still on the first page, mind you. But no, you want to come in here and continue to slip into every comment that its just that black women really are ugly. So they should just accept their fate in the world.

How can you say this without 1) asking me whether I think black women are attractive or not, and 2) not knowing me at all? What gives you the audacity to make that type of judgement of when I haven't said anything new or controversial? I asked a question of why black sportsmen rarely are with black women. It quickly then became a discussion of beauty and i've since then been responding directly to your posts. I'm not entrenched here posting articles saying black women are ugly, which is what you make it seem to be. The isn't of how many posts I've made, but rather the content of my comments and so if you disagree with them and hence someone that posts a series of comments that you disagree becomes 'harping', then I suppose by the same logic, I could accuse you of harping on about something?

Look, you can have your personal opinions of me. But keep them held within the privacy of your mind. If you have a question you'd like to ask me, to ya know confirm or support your opinions, ask. No, I don't think black women are ugly [my mother is black, my fiance was black] so are you going to be an adult and apologise for claiming otherwise?

 

[Boombloxer]

My wife jumps in the shower, washes her hair and lets it dry. You're telling me that a black woman can do the same thing?

This sounds pretty ignorant, but yes, my wife does this whenever we go somewhere. My sister doesn't, because she likes her hair curled.

Other women I've dated have been pretty much the same--if they wanted their hair done a certain way, they always took extra time.

Getting it done properly and take care of it is the hard part.

I asked a question of why black sportsmen rarely are with black women.

You got an answer already. Partly status, but partly because the athletes that are married to a black women don't get publicized as much.

It's not really a question of beauty, its more status and many years of being told to value one ideal over another. The beauty/self-hate/etc discussion is where you lost me because it didn't seem like you actually did some research to back up the opinion.

 

[Londa]

My wife jumps in the shower, washes her hair and lets it dry. You're telling me that a black woman can do the same thing?

To the government I am considered african american and I wash my hair everyday and let it air dry in its style. That only takes me five minutes to do.

 

[kodecraft]

You made the remark so it'd be helpful if you want it support your opinion. If you


Not sure what your point is. You can find a video (I'll even link it to you if you want to see it rather than telling you find it yourself) of Malcolm X giving a speech to a gathering of black women talking to them about this very subject, referring to hair and nose etc - telling them not to hate their identities, that they are beautiful as they look. Many black women do have curly, or nappy hair, and they resort to get it consistently straightened with sometimes dangerous chemicals - spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars and even applying the same treatments to daughters at a very young age. This isn't comparable to a woman with naturally straight hair waking up in the morning with messy hair and thus needing to comb it. This issue, because of its intensive and extensive use, is unique within our black communities to the point it was being spoken of 50 years ago amidst the civil rights debates.

But you're suggesting otherwise? I don't care whether they straighten their hair or dye it pink - the point is there is this strong belief that nappy hair is not attractive/as attractive as straight hair and thus try to change it. I don't know why you need to become so defensive about it. If you disagree, then you disagree.



How can you say this without 1) asking me whether I think black women are attractive or not, and 2) not knowing me at all? What gives you the audacity to make that type of judgement of when I haven't said anything new or controversial? I asked a question of why black sportsmen rarely are with black women. It quickly then became a discussion of beauty and i've since then been responding directly to your posts. I'm not entrenched here posting articles saying black women are ugly, which is what you make it seem to be. The isn't of how many posts I've made, but rather the content of my comments and so if you disagree with them and hence someone that posts a series of comments that you disagree becomes 'harping', then I suppose by the same logic, I could accuse you of harping on about something?

Look, you can have your personal opinions of me. But keep them held within the privacy of your mind. If you have a question you'd like to ask me, to ya know confirm or support your opinions, ask. No, I don't think black women are ugly [my mother is black, my fiance was black] so are you going to be an adult and apologise for claiming otherwise?

Good points.

 

[Londa]

You made the remark so it'd be helpful if you want it support your opinion. If you


Not sure what your point is. You can find a video (I'll even link it to you if you want to see it rather than telling you find it yourself) of Malcolm X giving a speech to a gathering of black women talking to them about this very subject, referring to hair and nose etc - telling them not to hate their identities, that they are beautiful as they look. Many black women do have curly, or nappy hair, and they resort to get it consistently straightened with sometimes dangerous chemicals - spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars and even applying the same treatments to daughters at a very young age. This isn't comparable to a woman with naturally straight hair waking up in the morning with messy hair and thus needing to comb it. This issue, because of its intensive and extensive use, is unique within our black communities to the point it was being spoken of 50 years ago amidst the civil rights debates.

But you're suggesting otherwise? I don't care whether they straighten their hair or dye it pink - the point is there is this strong belief that nappy hair is not attractive/as attractive as straight hair and thus try to change it. I don't know why you need to become so defensive about it. If you disagree, then you disagree.



How can you say this without 1) asking me whether I think black women are attractive or not, and 2) not knowing me at all? What gives you the audacity to make that type of judgement of when I haven't said anything new or controversial? I asked a question of why black sportsmen rarely are with black women. It quickly then became a discussion of beauty and i've since then been responding directly to your posts. I'm not entrenched here posting articles saying black women are ugly, which is what you make it seem to be. The isn't of how many posts I've made, but rather the content of my comments and so if you disagree with them and hence someone that posts a series of comments that you disagree becomes 'harping', then I suppose by the same logic, I could accuse you of harping on about something?

Look, you can have your personal opinions of me. But keep them held within the privacy of your mind. If you have a question you'd like to ask me, to ya know confirm or support your opinions, ask. No, I don't think black women are ugly [my mother is black, my fiance was black] so are you going to be an adult and apologise for claiming otherwise?

Everything I have said is pointing out what you have said and or do while in this thread. You, making it a personal attack on your personality or what makes you, you, is of your own doing. Stop complaining and getting upset is my suggestion. Either way, it is true that this is a black culture thread, not international beauty thread. I believe it is still active discussion going on in it. If you want to compare black women's beauty to the rest.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

You got an answer already. Partly status, but partly because the athletes that are married to a black women don't get publicized as much.

It's not really a question of beauty, its more status and many years of being told to value one ideal over another. The beauty/self-hate/etc discussion is where you lost me because it didn't seem like you actually did some research to back up the opinion.

I did, yes, but a quick search on the Internet shows a multitude of 'answers' on this question. I was also confused by this idea that a trophy wife in this context isn't about beauty, as trophy wives are known for, but rather not seeing black women as marriage material (but are somehow good enough to sleep with). These black men had a black father and a black mother, and now with many black families being raised by a single woman, it makes even less sense that any black men would actually hold a black wife as lesser in anyway. But what isn't as well known, I feel, is that these type of questions are also asked in other societies (examples I gave previously) where they are not the minority and therefore suggests, at least in some cases, it's not a status on the basis of cultural influence from a white society. That was and has remained my follow up point in this discussion thread. Nothing wrong with that.

After that I was responding to Londa

Everything I have said is pointing out what you have said and or do while in this thread. You, making it a personal attack on your personality or what makes you, you, is of your own doing. Stop complaining and getting upset is my suggestion. Either way, it is true that this is a black culture thread, not international beauty thread. I believe it is still active discussion going on in it. If you want to compare black women's beauty to the rest.

You said I considered black women ugly. I find that offensive not to mention absolute BS. Are you going to admit you were wrong, or at least wrong to attack me in that way or are you going to behave this immaturely or just act this proud? I don't think anything I have said to upset you can justify your comment which was unacceptable.

I don't want to make a thread for this so posted it in the only black thread here. Nothing unreasonable about that. If you don't like this, then ignore my comments by clicking here.

 

[Measley]

This sounds pretty ignorant, but yes, my wife does this whenever we go somewhere. My sister doesn't, because she likes her hair curled.

Other women I've dated have been pretty much the same--if they wanted their hair done a certain way, they always took extra time.

Getting it done properly and take care of it is the hard part.

That's what I'm saying. My wife takes care of her hair ONLY by washing it at home. She might curl it with an iron, but that's it.

Its pretty obvious we're talking about two very different things here. Unless your wife is walking around with a natural hair style. If she is, that's all fine and dandy, but the vast majority of black women are NOT doing that.

To the government I am considered african american and I wash my hair everyday and let it air dry in its style. That only takes me five minutes to do.

What do you mean "to the government"?

 

[Lionheart1337]

'What black men like' turned into a discussion of beauty in general. My argument is that this position of self-hatred, presumably because of the influences of a white-majority society, does not hold water when you take into account these perceptions also exist in black societies. So although there can be examples of simple self-hate, I don't believe you can generalise it across the board. But it's an opinion and I have no problem with others disagreeing.

So you're basically saying that the almighty Western standards of beauty hold no water in say, a majority black nation, so the the argument is only applicable to places where blacks are the minority (if at all)?

 

[Londa]

That's what I'm saying. My wife takes care of her hair ONLY by washing it at home. She might curl it with an iron, but that's it.

Its pretty obvious we're talking about to very different things here. Unless your wife is walking around with a natural hair style. If she is, that's all fine and dandy, but the vast majority of black women are NOT doing that.



What do you mean "to the government"?

Census Bureau and birth certificate.

My hair is in a natural style and simi wet atm. I also know other african americans who do the same. Now if you are talking about wetting your hair and letting it air dry to get a straight look. No that is not possible with my hair. My hair is naturally curly. I love it curly.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

So you're basically saying that the almighty Western standards of beauty hold no water in say, a majority black nation, so the the argument is only applicable to places where blacks are the minority (if at all)?

Not sure if I understand that but I'll clarify the post you quoted. Londa and a few others have said that there is a belief that perceptions of beauty, or a wife, are centered around a white woman because this is largely a white society in terms of population, so its only reasonable that ideas of beauty will transmit to the minority. I agreed with this until a few months ago, however, when I discovered that descriptions of beauty on e.g. lighter skin, straighter hair etc also exist in societies with no white population (much less majority) to influence others. This means that culture came to these ideas of beauty on their own and that the favouring of lighter skin and straighter hair is not exclusive to Western society. That's not to say, of course, black communities in Western society cannot/have not been influenced by white ideas of beauty but it does negate the belief - IMO - that it is a blanket explanation.

 

[Measley]

Census Bureau and birth certificate.

My hair is in a natural style and simi wet atm. I also know other african americans who do the same. Now if you are talking about wetting your hair and letting it air dry to get a straight look. No that is not possible with my hair. My hair is naturally curly. I love it curly.

You don't consider yourself African-American?

I'm just curious because you make it sound like the government is labeling you, and you consider yourself something else.

 

[Boombloxer]

That's what I'm saying. My wife takes care of her hair ONLY by washing it at home. She might curl it with an iron, but that's it.

Its pretty obvious we're talking about two very different things here. Unless your wife is walking around with a natural hair style. If she is, that's all fine and dandy, but the vast majority of black women are NOT doing that.



What do you mean "to the government"?

My wife gets her hair done fairly often, and again, same thing, she washes it. I've seen and know enough examples to know that this is pretty common. We can just agree to disagree, because we're going in circles.

But what isn't as well known, I feel, is that these type of questions are also asked in other societies (examples I gave previously) where they are not the minority and therefore suggests, at least in some cases, it's not a status on the basis of cultural influence from a white society.

And that's where the misconception lies. It is. The most influential media is either US or Euorpean, period. Their concept of beauty is naturally, their own race. And older concepts of racism are more masked today, but still there. We're talking centuries of of being told you aren't attractive by entire countries, publications, etc. Even if you have a great family that empowers you to overcome this bullshit, it's still out there and continually perpetuated.

Hence, why I said you should look into it more. Goes a bit deeper than having a great family.

That's not to say, of course, black communities in Western society cannot/have not been influenced by white ideas of beauty but it does negate the belief - IMO - that it is a blanket explanation.

Here's the thing, if those societies are still interacting with the greater media, then they are still being influenced by that ideal. So that would affect their perception of beauty.

 

[Lionheart1337]

Not sure if I understand that but I'll clarify the post you quoted. Londa and a few others have said that there is a belief that perceptions of beauty, or a wife, are centered around a white woman because this is largely a white society in terms of population, so its only reasonable that ideas of beauty will transmit to the minority. I agreed with this until a few months ago, however, when I discovered that descriptions of beauty on e.g. lighter skin, straighter hair etc also exist in societies with no white population (much less majority) to influence others. This means that culture came to these ideas of beauty on their own and that the favouring of lighter skin and straighter hair is not exclusive to Western society. That's not to say, of course, black communities in Western society cannot/have not been influenced by white ideas of beauty but it does negate the belief - IMO - that it is a blanket explanation.

Alright, I think I got you.

To clarify my question I was basically just asking you if you thought that the standards of beauty in a country like the US could not apply to say, a country in Africa where the majority is black, because the standards of beauty in the US (where the majority is white) do not hold weight in a place where the majority is black.

If that's what you think I can understand why you would feel that there is really no universally dictated standard of beauty and we all have this inherent idea of beauty which tends to be similar in many of its facets (straight hair, etc.)

 

[Lionheart1337]

To add to this, I personally feel that beauty is subjective, and as such, people will tend to favor the opinion that is popular, rather than creating their own idea, their own standard. Whites have most of the power in the world. The victor takes the spoils...the media, writes history, and all that jazz, so I feel that whatever standards are held by those that run shit...internationally, are going to be the ones that have value to the general population of the world.

 

[Londa]

You don't consider yourself African-American?

I'm just curious because you make it sound like the government is labeling you, and you consider yourself something else.

Smh, you are the only one getting that out of what I said. I used the goverment reference because on gaf I would not be viewed as african american (if you take in consideration the black women thread). I would be viewed as mixed because I do not have 100% african blood in me. But then have african americans ever said they are 100% african? Gaf is silly.

 

[Master Z]

"When your hair is relaxed, they're relaxed,...when it's nappy, they're not happy." - Paul Mooney

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Alright, I think I got you.

To clarify my question I was basically just asking you if you thought that the standards of beauty in a country like the US could not apply to say, a country in Africa where the majority is black, because the standards of beauty in the US (where the majority is white) do not hold weight in a place where the majority is black.

If that's what you think I can understand why you would feel that there is really no universally dictated standard of beauty and we all have this inherent idea of beauty which tends to be similar in many of its facets (straight hair, etc.)

I think 'universal' and 'inherent' are interchangeable in this context. In my personal opinion (curious as to whether agree), I would go as far as to generalise that what is termed as the 'symmetrical' female face and straight hair is deemed attracted by all men. Aside from physique, I think those two aspects are the most crucial in measuring the beauty of a woman. I don't like to class this as American or 'White' because it implies that non-White cultures disagree with it (although as others above have argued, its difficult to judge after so much media influence). As Londa herself said earlier, these characteristics are not dependant on your skin colour - you can be dark skinned and have more beautiful features than the whitest girl.

 

[Measley]

Alright, I think I got you.

To clarify my question I was basically just asking you if you thought that the standards of beauty in a country like the US could not apply to say, a country in Africa where the majority is black, because the standards of beauty in the US (where the majority is white) do not hold weight in a place where the majority is black.

If that's what you think I can understand why you would feel that there is really no universally dictated standard of beauty and we all have this inherent idea of beauty which tends to be similar in many of its facets (straight hair, etc.)

I honestly think the standard of beauty is shifting more towards the "mixed-race" look. Which is why you're seeing women like Rashida Jones, Kim Kardashian and Paula Paxton rise to prominence on the back of Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, and Eva Langoria.

 

[SmokyDave]

Smh, you are the only one getting that out of what I said. I used the goverment reference because on gaf I would not viewed as african american (if you take in consideration the black women thread). I would or am viewed as mixed because I do not have 100% african blood in me. But then have african americans ever said they are 100% african? Gaf is silly.

'African American' is a stupid term unless you're using it to refer to a very, very specific set of people. I don't get why it seems to be a catch all term for 'black & American'.

This isn't the first time you've said something like this. I don't know why you're letting GAF* define your ethnic identity. I'm English, not British, but I don't expect most of GAF to know or care about the difference and why that difference matters to me.

*Let's be honest, you don't mean 'GAF', you probably mean one or two posters in one or two topics.

 

[Londa]

'African American' is a stupid term unless you're using it to refer to a very, very specific set of people. I don't get why it seems to be a catch all term for 'black & American'.

This isn't the first time you've said something like this. I don't know why you're letting GAF* define your ethnic identity. I'm English, not British, but I don't expect most of GAF to know or care about the difference and why that difference matters to me.

*Let's be honest, you don't mean 'GAF', you probably mean one or two posters in one or two topics.

I can see why you think its a stupid term because you aren't living in america. In american anyone black born on american soil is african american by government standards.

I don't let them define my ethnic identity by saying what I said. I was saying in hope of getting less ignorant replies, but then again...

 

[Measley]

Smh, you are the only one getting that out of what I said. I used the goverment reference because on gaf I would not be viewed as african american (if you take in consideration the black women thread). I would be viewed as mixed because I do not have 100% african blood in me. But then have african americans ever said they are 100% african? Gaf is silly.

I've always felt that people who are mixed-race yet consider themselves African-American cause all sorts of havoc in the black community. Why? Because their experience can be quite different than that of African Americans. If one guy looks like Don Cheadle, and the other looks like Michael Ealy, the latter is more likely to get a job, catch a cab, and not get pulled over.

 

[Measley]

In american anyone black born on american soil is african american by government standards.

That's not true. A lot of government forms have a "multiracial" or "other" box. So in the end, its largely your choice.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

I've always felt that people who are mixed-race yet consider themselves African-American cause all sorts of havoc in the black community. Why? Because their experience can be quite different than that of African Americans. If one guy looks like Don Cheadle, and the other looks like Michael Ealy, the latter is more likely to get a job, catch a cab, and not get pulled over.

I'm sure it'd cause problems as well in other corners if they identified themselves as white

 

[Dead Man]

Smh, you are the only one getting that out of what I said. I used the goverment reference because on gaf I would not be viewed as african american (if you take in consideration the black women thread). I would be viewed as mixed because I do not have 100% african blood in me. But then have african americans ever said they are 100% african? Gaf is silly.

No, I thouht that maybe you did not consider yourself African American the way you worded it. I don't really care what you consider yourself, but it was easy to take that meaning from the way you worded that statement.

 

[Londa]

That's not true. A lot of government forms have a "multiracial" or "other" box. So in the end, its largely your choice.

What? That was not what I was talking about. You need to read what smokey dave said. Also what about a birth certificate? Lol

 

[Londa]

No, I thouht that maybe you did not consider yourself African American the way you worded it. I don't really care what you consider yourself, but it was easy to take that meaning from the way you worded that statement.

Which isn't a shock considering your history.

 

[Dead Man]

Which isn't a shock considering your history.

What history would that be? And what isn't a shock? That you wrote a phrase that was open to several ways of being interpreted, and someone misinterpreted it?