Support NeoGAF

[adj_noun]

I use a console for modern stuff and my laptop for GOG type stuff that pretty much works on anything nowadays. I'm pretty happy with that arrangement.

 

[Hiko]

This is me, sitting comfortably on my couch 12 ft away, controlling my computer one handed with a wii remote.

Ok, your point? You think current console buyers would rather spend more money tweaking a PC to "emulate" a console setup...instead of just buying a console? No of course not. You also conveniently ignored his second point. Most people aren't buying desktop computers anymore. Cheap laptops and tablets dominate the computing field. And that trend isn't going to somehow reverse for no reason.

You guys talk about "the PC" like it's this magical new thing, when in reality people have been using PC's and even gaming on them long before consoles existed. If PC couldn't kill off consoles before, it sure as hell isn't going to now.

 

[Gipsy Danger]

True. But these are just time consuming and usually fail-safe. The PC steps are more of a minefield.

No. They aren't. I'll happily admit that a console is more convenient than a PC but your list is mostly nonsense. Which shop to buy it from? Really?

It's still hilarious that the main reason people don't like PCs is because they happily admit themselves they are not smart enough and too ignorant to learn anything about them when they are incredibly easy to build and maintain.

 

[NZOO]

It's honestly hard for me to invest in console gaming. I rather fork out the $100+ in upgrades and pay the low cost on the sales which makes up for everything.

 

[Bjomesphat]

Ok, your point? You think current console buyers would rather spend more money tweaking a PC to "emulate" a console setup...instead of just buying a console? No of course not. You also conveniently ignored his second point. Most people aren't buying desktop computers anymore. Cheap laptops and tablets dominate the computing field.

You guys talk about "the PC" like it's this magical new thing, when in reality people have been using PC's and even gaming on them long before consoles existed. If PC couldn't kill off consoles before, it sure as hell isn't going to now.

My point is he said some BS about couch gaming and PCs.

And I do what I do because I can and I enjoy it. If you just want to launch Steam big picture mode and never see Windows, that's as simple as a click of a button. And there's your console experience on a couch.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

This is me, sitting comfortably on my couch 12 ft away, controlling my computer one handed with a wii remote.

You certainly must recognize yourself as an extreme minority. You even acknowledge that you required the know-how to make a Wii Remote work with your computer.

Just because YOU can do it doesn't mean the average computer can or will. Your setup is also not well suited for word processing, nor is it suitable for extensive reading.

If you had to choose between reading something right in front of you or reading something across the room, would you really argue that the text across the room is better than the text right in front of you?

A television+PC set up is not a preferential work station for most consumers. I am not going to sit on the living room floor staring up at a 60" television when I'm browsing GAF. I am not going to write a fourteen page paper from the couch twelve feet from the document.

That is not a set up most people would ever prefer and it's not a set up possible out of the box.

My point is he said some BS about couch gaming and PCs.

And I do what I do because I can and I enjoy it. If you just want to launch Steam big picture mode and never see Windows, that's as simple as a click of a button. And there's your console experience on a couch.

I'm not sure what I said that you took so personally. I never said you couldn't do exactly what you do. I said the common consumer would not. I never said that a PC is not a console experience.

 

[Nzyme32]

This is me, sitting comfortably on my couch 12 ft away, controlling my computer one handed with a wii remote.

The UI and DPI scaling issue is one that really needs to be sorted (although this looks shopped ). With PCs making a move towards the living room, over the time that is set to be rectified

To be fair, those things are either much simpler on console or not mandatory to play the base game (Downloading DLC)

For people who actually know about file directories etc on a PC they should be fine to get a game running for the most part but many people don’t ever deal with that stuff on PC and so even though it’s a simple task for some it becomes much more complicated and a hassle. Im no computer expert but amongst my family I am the go to PC guy and yet I can’t stand the extra hurdles there are when it comes to PC gaming, imagine what its like for someone who just browses the internet on their computer!

Definitely wasn't the case for me - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904934

There's no doubt that PCs are still with their weird eccentricities, yet this has been an ever improving situation, to the point where there is a push by many for more convenient and easy use functionality and UI. From my group of friends at least, there are more and more people from the "internet / word processor only" group of laptop users that have picked up games like Football Manager and Civ V, that have acted as a gateway to them buying other games. If they have no issue doing it, I'm certain there are plenty that will have a similar experience - even though issues related to gaming on a PC are some what a risk with such a platform

 

[Tetranet]

Sony just knows to be more quiet about their plans. After all, they're the ones who patented this:

Horrific.

This is something you'd read about in a dystopic sci-fi book.

 

[Spineker]

This is all assuming that games are going to remain the primary focus of consoles. But I thinik it's been pretty clear that Microsoft and Sony view their machines as long term investments in a war for being the prime middle men of all media consumption in the living room. If everyone watches TV and buys movies and whatnot through their own online services, that's a pretty damn lucrative position to be in getting a cut from all the ad revenue and licenses and whatnot. I don't see how it even makes sense to bleed so much money into their console divisions otherwise.

I am pretty sure this was the reason for Microsoft's initial TV-focused strategy for the Xbox One. They've seen how the core gaming industry has been shrinking and they did not expect this to be enough to drive sales of their console in the long term. It was too premature from a PR standpoint though so they ended up in an awkward position and had to flipflop their image.

Sony just knows to be more quiet about their plans. After all, they're the ones who patented this:

Please tell me this isn't a real thing.

 

[NIGHT-]

The mass market is never gonna rush out to put Pcs in their living room. Get real

 

[SmokedMeat]

But we can sure prioritise talking about it a lot haha!

That's free

Plus smartphones make it too easy

 

[Nzyme32]

The mass market is never gonna rush out to put Pcs in their living room. Get real

Until it's user friendly and in a small form factor, while also having an infinitesimally small chance of running into any issues/errors and is priced reasonably for it's performance and features. This is actually ever improving, so yes, it is an eventual possibility.

That's free

Plus smartphones make it too easy

Indeed it does!

 

[Tony Iommi]

Sorry, but I can see a future where the Xbox and maybe, but just maybe, the PS follow your prediction.

But Nintendo will always Nintendo.

 

[nasos_333]

There wont be piracy in 2016 PCs ?

And what about exlusives ?

Zelda, Bloodborne etc etc wont be on PC

And a PC will never be as comfrotable to use in the living room as a console, the only way for that to happen is to become a console, which defeats the purpose

 

[Tony Iommi]

This is me, sitting comfortably on my couch 12 ft away, controlling my computer one handed with a wii remote.

You kinda look like a dog.

 

[Bjomesphat]

You certainly must recognize yourself as an extreme minority. You even acknowledge that you required the know-how to make a Wii Remote work with your computer.

Just because YOU can do it doesn't mean the average computer can or will. Your setup is also not well suited for word processing, nor is it suitable for extensive reading.

If you had to choose between reading something right in front of you or reading something across the room, would you really argue that the text across the room is better than the text right in front of you?

A television+PC set up is not a preferential work station for most consumers. I am not going to sit on the living room floor staring up at a 60" television when I'm browsing GAF. I am not going to write a fourteen page paper from the couch twelve feet from the document.

That is not a set up most people would ever prefer and it's not a set up possible out of the box.

Oh of course. I wouldn't expect anyone to have their setup emulate mine. But I think you're proving a valuable point, and that is a gaming PC can give you the console experience AND a traditional desktop experience. Sure it's not ideal for a lot of desktop functions, but it's there if you want to give it a shot. And I do browse GAF all the time from my TV just because using a wii remote is really easy and intuitive and how I have it setup is easier than using a mouse. Granted, I don't post anything while using it like this, but just browsing the web is great. And that's something that consoles have always failed at.

I'm not sure what I said that you took so personally. I never said you couldn't do exactly what you do. I said the common consumer would not. I never said that a PC is not a console experience.

Sorry if it came across that way. I thought it was another ignorant post about not being able to use PCs on a TV. Sorry if I was a bit hostile.

 

[NIGHT-]

Until it's user friendly and in a small form factor, while also having an infinitesimally small chance of running into any issues/errors and is priced reasonably for it's performance and features. This is actually ever improving, so yes, it is an eventual possibility.



Indeed it does!

It will never happen.

 

[nasos_333]

along with pc yes

How can PC be dead ?

 

[Moon_frogger]

You just don't get it. For all your effort you don't have a clue.

 

[Bjomesphat]

The UI and DPI scaling issue is one that really needs to be sorted (although this looks shopped ). With PCs making a move towards the living room, over the time that is set to be rectified

Yeah, scaling is my biggest complaint. I've got my PC to a manageable place, and all of my applications are perfectly suited for the living room, but anything I do in explorer or any high level stuff, I sit closer and use a keyboard mouse.

And that picture is "technically" shopped (good eye!), but that was only because I couldn't get the brightness of the room, and the brightness of the screen to give me an equal exposure. So I took one shot with the room properly exposed and another with only my screen exposed, and photoshopped them together. But the scale and everything about the UI is completely accurate.

 

[Flavius]

What's it going to be replaced by?

SaaS...isn't it obvious?

The only reason people give two fucks about hardware are services provided and performance.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It's still hilarious that the main reason people don't like PCs is because they happily admit themselves they are not smart enough and too ignorant to learn anything about them when they are incredibly easy to build and maintain.

Convenience and simplicity are the names of the game, and people will pay for that. It's why tablets will bury desktops. Nobody outside of enthusiasts want to maintain a pain in the ass PC.

 

[njean777]

Oh of course. I wouldn't expect anyone to have their setup emulate mine. But I think you're proving a valuable point, and that is a gaming PC can give you the console experience AND a traditional desktop experience. Sure it's not ideal for a lot of desktop functions, but it's there if you want to give it a shot. And I do browse GAF all the time from my TV just because using a wii remote is really easy and intuitive and how I have it setup is easier than using a mouse. Granted, I don't post anything while using it like this, but just browsing the web is great. And that's something that consoles have always failed at.




Sorry if it came across that way. I thought it was another ignorant post about not being able to use PCs on a TV. Sorry if I was a bit hostile.

The bigger problem with your set up is that it isn't easier then somebody picking up a phone or tablet and just using that to browse the Internet. With your set up you had to make the wii mote work, lug a pc to the living room, make sure the TV displays the picture correctly (some still have a problem with this), have a wireless keyboard if you want to type (or use window's terrible on screen key board). All of that can be skipped by just using a phone or tablet. The consoles also provide all of this functionality if you want to use it. Now as for writing essays and any work capabilities the consoles do not offer that, but I will go out on a limb and say if you are in work mode you won't be playing games or messing around in the living room at all.

Yes you can play games on a TV and use a pc, but it is more convient for most people to just place a ps4/wii u/ Xbox one under the TV and hit the power button on the controller or system itself and use their phone if they ever need to look something up.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

No. They aren't. I'll happily admit that a console is more convenient than a PC but your list is mostly nonsense. Which shop to buy it from? Really?

It's still hilarious that the main reason people don't like PCs is because they happily admit themselves they are not smart enough and too ignorant to learn anything about them when they are incredibly easy to build and maintain.

Whats truly hilarious is people putting themselves up on a pedestal and looking down on others because the simpler option is good enough for them.
Many gamers feel the hassle of researching/learning to build a pc just isnt worth the advantages that pc gaming brings over console gaming currently. Its just complexity that people dont want to deal with when there is a simpler option available.
I'm one of them. I upgraded the cpu/gpu/hard drive/ram on my pc last year and after a month of gaming on it I found myself gaming almost exclusively on my ps4 again. It just wasnt worth it to me in the end and I regret spending the money now.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Is this a game console?

nope, it just tries to look like a console

why try to make a very simple thing confusing? Its ridiculous

When someone says console, you know what they mean. Don't try and say you don't. Just because finally PC's are starting to be able to emulate a consoles look and design doesn't automatically push them into the same category.

The lines are getting blurred no doubt, slowly, but not quite there yet. I'm thinking a Steam Machine with its own custom controller and whatnot could realistically be called a console PC, since its built from the ground up as a dedicated gaming first machine with a gaming centric OS and a gaming controller built in. Everything up to then though is just a PC in a console sized box imitating that design.

 

[njean777]

No. They aren't. I'll happily admit that a console is more convenient than a PC but your list is mostly nonsense. Which shop to buy it from? Really?

It's still hilarious that the main reason people don't like PCs is because they happily admit themselves they are not smart enough and too ignorant to learn anything about them when they are incredibly easy to build and maintain.

I know how to build and maintain them, just don't care to do it. The problem in the first place is you have to maintain them, I shouldn't have to at this point.

 

[Pestilence11]

I think one of the biggest problems with some of these kinds of predictions is the people making them think that people on hardcore gaming message boards make up a large proportion of the gaming public.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

The OP reads to me as:

"next years components will far outperform last years consoles, making them irrelevant"

Which has been true forever, and didn't result in any kind of console death. There doesn't seem to be anything else to support the opinions.

 

[Seanspeed]

You certainly must recognize yourself as an extreme minority. You even acknowledge that you required the know-how to make a Wii Remote work with your computer.

Just because YOU can do it doesn't mean the average computer can or will. Your setup is also not well suited for word processing, nor is it suitable for extensive reading.

If you had to choose between reading something right in front of you or reading something across the room, would you really argue that the text across the room is better than the text right in front of you?

A television+PC set up is not a preferential work station for most consumers. I am not going to sit on the living room floor staring up at a 60" television when I'm browsing GAF. I am not going to write a fourteen page paper from the couch twelve feet from the document.

That is not a set up most people would ever prefer and it's not a set up possible out of the box.

But what about having a living room PC in a console-sized form factor that you use just for games? And work is being done to further improve ease-of-use in living room situations.

You seem to want to lock us in time and act like how it is now is how it will always be, but we've already moved forward a long ways in the past 5 years alone and that will continue. I'm not personally sold on having a living room PC just yet myself, but I can definitely see a day in the near future where it will be very appealing.

 

[Nzyme32]

It will never happen.

Ah I love the word "never". We'll see about that!

 

[petran79]

I am sure that Sony and Microsoft could release a desktop console as small, thin and light as the 3ds, vita or any other tablet pc with the same performance as current PS4 and XB1 or even better and tons of features. Then there would be no need for Vita at all!
The reason they abstain though is prestige. True men dont mind thin cellphones but they mind thin consoles and pcs. Waste of space and energy really.

 

[Seanspeed]

nope, it just tries to look like a console

why try to make a very simple thing confusing? Its ridiculous

When someone says console, you know what they mean. Don't try and say you don't. Just because finally PC's are starting to be able to emulate a consoles look and design doesn't automatically push them into the same category.

The lines are getting blurred no doubt, slowly, but not quite there yet. I'm thinking a Steam Machine with its own custom controller and whatnot could realistically be called a console PC, since its built from the ground up as a dedicated gaming first machine with a gaming centric OS and a gaming controller built in. Everything up to then though is just a PC in a console sized box imitating that design.

So an OS built for living room situations and a built-in controller is all we need to call a PC a console from where we are now?

I think you're just proving my point that the distinction is not nearly as clear as you're making it. Yes, I know what you talk about when you say 'console', but I think that perception should change and we should stop seeing this massive difference between what people think of with these assocations between PC's and consoles.

 

[Flappy]

But what about having a living room PC in a console-sized form factor that you use just for games?

Then when the game crashes to desktop, I have to get my lazy arse up and go to the keyboard and mouse.

 

[jimi_dini]

You forgot a few steps for buying a console game though:

3. Install it

4. Buy DLC

5. Download patch

6. Download another patch

Not really my typical experience on Wii U.

For example Captain Toad went like this:

1. insert disc into Wii U

2. play

no installation. no patch. no nothing. And I even get rock stable 60 fps.

 

[SmokedMeat]

But what about having a living room PC in a console-sized form factor that you use just for games? And work is being done to further improve ease-of-use in living room situations.

We already have those. They're called laptops and tablets. Nobody really needs a small PC console for their TV.

 

[Canis lupus]

How some come to the ridiculous idea that the entire world will mass adopt living room pc's instead of consoles in the near future is beyond me. Home theater PCs(HTPC) have been around for nearly a decade, without posing a threat to consoles. PCs will never replace consoles in the living room, what a foolish thought.

PC is a shrinking market itself, with mobiles taking over many of the computing tasks of desk and laptops.

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ill-shrinking-with-smaller-firms-squeezed-out

http://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...-market-will-continue-to-shrink-through-2015/

 

[Tony Iommi]

Not really my typical experience on Wii U.

For example Captain Toad went like this:

1. insert disc into Wii U

2. play

no installation. no patch. no nothing. And I even get rock stable 60 fps.

Yeap. Love the Wii U.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Game Consoles currently exist for a number of reasons that will not be a factor with mid-performance 2016 PCs.

Piracy: Piracy required embedded encryption keys and encrypted OS and Memory images. This is why they are called embedded platforms which is a required feature for Playready DRM support. All modern Windows 8.1 OEM platforms and newer require a Trusted boot module and embedded Codec keys as well as protected codec/player and in the near future all IO. This is done in AMD APUs and dGPUs using ARM Trustzone.

Performance envelope allowing a quiet Livingroom console: This is self explanatory and the limiting factor in AMD APUs is memory bandwidth. The PS4 used GDDR5 and the XB1 used a 32meg cache with a soon to be used DX12 that supports tiling allowing the 32meg cache to more efficiently process a video frame.

AMD is counting on HBM to solve their bandwidth problems with dGPUs and APUs. They are moving the Southbridge into the APU, adding more CUs and following their roadmap to bring more ARM Cadence IP (Xtensa DPUs and more) into the SoC. Power efficiency is a big part of this with HBM a major factor. It is easily possible to have a 2016 AMD SoC with performance exceeding a PS4 using much less power.

Game Features not found in a PC: Kinect, Eyetoy...etc. Not yet truly mainstream in game consoles with Microsoft and Sony allowing their hardware to be used on PCs. AMD's Kaveri already includes the same Xtensa DPUs that are in the PS4 and XB1. The XB1 contains more Xtensa processors due to the need to support Kinect and because it's GPU is smaller than the PS4 or a mid range PC should have.

Gaming Ecosystem: This is the only way Microsoft and Sony can stay relevant and they will offer their ecosystem to the PCs of the near future. Windows 10 is rumored to be free with a charge for extra services and there is a Xbox APP that allows access to the Xbox game ecosystem.

To the Metal Perfomance: The APPs for the XB1 Windows 10 are all WebGL with OpenGL support same as the PS4. The major difference for games in the near future, Windows is Direct X and Sony will be supporting a more modern efficient OpenGL with a POSIX OS (FreeBSD or Linux). Both DirectX and OpenGL are being optimized for games. This is possible due to new hardware features like QOS and Trusted boot/embedded with Trustzone. In the past the GPU drivers were used as a choke point for DRM video and driver development was all in house for security. This is now opening up to third parties with OpenGL on Linux now a threat to Microsoft's DirectX which put a fire under them.

Predictions: Wild first, Sony will enable Other OS Linux support on the PS4. The future for Sony games is Linux running on X-86 PCs while the future for Microsoft is Windows. Sony will encourage Linux development and Android, which is a virtual engine running on a OpenGL Linux kernel. The only other choices are to change to Windows Direct X or Microsoft drops Direct X for OpenGL which I doubt will happen.

My belief is that Sony and Microsoft chose X-86 because they see this also. This will also be true for a new Nintendo console. The only other contender for Game Consoles is ARM and there are several being released in the next six months. Some have performance near last generation game consoles and are only viable because of the Vidipath (DLNA CVP2) ecosystem and game streaming (Gaikai like).

PCs are not dead and will move to the living room. The choice will be Windows X86 with the Xbox ecosystem and/or Android running on a X86 Linux kernel with games either ARM or Linux OpenGL which can run future AAA games from Sony with the Playstation ecosystem.

Apps/programs will be Web based with OpenCL.. HSAIL and OpenCL allow native performance to programs as APPS.

There is no longer a need for a future Game Console provided there is no new feature that won't be found in future AMD SoCs. 4K TVs, Vidipath (DLNA CVP2), HTML5 with WebGL and VR make a PC in the living room more valuable. It will offer the same features the XB1 and PS4 will offer to other platforms in the home. In the short term Kaveri, PS4 and XB1 support HEVC as does Windows 10 and they can sideload and transcode to AVCHD (h.264) which is the current Vidipath DLNA standard.

By 2017 every TV will be a smart TV or have a Vidipath STB connected to it. There will be a need for at least one media hub with hard disk (read PC), the other TVs can use ARM STBs or HDMI sticks.

Isn't AMD getting their asses kicked right now? If consoles are dead, isn't AMD fucked?

 

[SmokedMeat]

You forgot a few steps for buying a console game though:

3. Install it

4. Buy DLC

5. Download patch

6. Download another patch

Sometimes there might be a patch that is all done automatically with no work required on my part. Same goes for any hardware updates.

Buying DLC is not a required step to play a game. Are we that desperate to try and make the console experience more complicated then it really is?

 

[Bjomesphat]

The bigger problem with your set up is that it isn't easier then somebody picking up a phone or tablet and just using that to browse the Internet. With your set up you had to make the wii mote work, lug a pc to the living room, make sure the TV displays the picture correctly (some still have a problem with this), have a wireless keyboard if you want to type (or use window's terrible on screen key board). All of that can be skipped by just using a phone or tablet. The consoles also provide all of this functionality if you want to use it. Now as for writing essays and any work capabilities the consoles do not offer that, but I will go out on a limb and say if you are in work mode you won't be playing games or messing around in the living room at all.

Yes you can play games on a TV and use a pc, but it is more convient for most people to just place a ps4/wii u/ Xbox one under the TV and hit the power button on the controller or system itself and use their phone if they ever need to look something up.

Well, my PC stays connected to my TV permanently and once everything is setup you're good to go. But I never claimed my setup is easier than just using a tablet (in fact, I only posted the picture to show you can use your PC on a TV). It's just nice doing everything on one machine rather than going from device to device depending on it's functionality. And I have my PC setup to more or less accommodate every situation I need.

And my PC is my home media hub. Everything is either funneled to the PC through my network, or the PC streams everything out to any other device on my network. If I want to watch a blu ray on my phone, I'll just pull it up and start watching. If I want to play a game on my laptop in bed, I'll just use Steam home streaming.

 

[Seanspeed]

Sometimes there might be a patch that is all done automatically with no work required on my part. Same goes for any hardware updates.

Buying DLC is not a required step to play a game. Are we that desperate to try and make the console experience more complicated then it really is?

When the same comments and exaggerations are made about PC gaming, do you have a problem with it? Of course you don't.

We already have those. They're called laptops and tablets. Nobody really needs a small PC console for their TV.

Laptops and tablets don't run modern games and you know it.

Well, some laptops will, but mostly larger, expensive gaming laptops.

 

[outunderthestars]

This is me, sitting comfortably on my couch 12 ft away, controlling my computer one handed with a wii remote.

Alienware has a rather elegant solution. You press the shoulder buttons and click in the left analog stick, and it goes into a mouse/pointer mode where you can control the cursor with the left analog stick. I find that it works incredibly well!

Also, don't see why you'd post a desktop image when machines exist that will boot right into Big Picture Mode:

 

[Tidus_Great]

consoles will never die as long as they price themselves accordingly. ps4 launched at 399 like a boss and you couldn't buy a PC that will last you this whole gen for anything close to that. Even building one yourself = nope at the time. Based on what we've seen it seems like 300-400 is the range console should launch in. For people who just want to play all the latest games with ease consoles will always be an attractive choice. The bells and whistles of the PC versions don't seem to matter to the vast majority of people.

 

[Loofy]

PC for when I'm playing with m/kb on a desk. Console for when I'm playing in the living room on a couch. Why do they have to replace each other? What's next 'Death of tvs, Hello tablets'

 

[TheHall]

I always enjoy how the PC mindset is: I am a 25+ year old with an above average interest in technology, console gaming is obsolete because of reason A,B,C.

However, the mainstream market mindset is: I am a parent, and my kid wants to play videogames. How much is one of those Nintendo Gamestations nowadays?

 

[Chezzymann]

Mobile will definitley replace handheld consoles (Arguably it already has), and is slowly eating away at the marketshare of normal consoles. I don't think Game Consoles will die, the market will just shrink and be more and more focused on enthusiasts.

 

[zero shift]

Like with handhelds, consoles will go through a tipping point. However it likely won't be due to PCs but more so set top boxes like the Roku and smart TVs. That said while the boxes may die the services will not. Xbox Live and Playstation Plus will still exist in somr form. Nintendo is too unpredictable of a company to know what they will be doibg in the future.

 

[Soulscribe]

Game consoles will continue to thrive and exist as long as they don't become redundant platforms. PC gaming is too high-brow for mainstream and mobile games, while on a huge upward trend, aren't really biting marketshare off of our consoles. There is still a demand for high caliber blockbusters, and if PCs can't provide them in an accessible way then home consoles will continue to have demand. When set-top boxes begin bleeding into that platform, then we can talk.

Not to mention that the PS4 has been performing at a pretty impressive pace, even when comparing it to its predecessor 8 years ago.

 

[IAmRandom31]

So an OS built for living room situations and a built-in controller is all we need to call a PC a console from where we are now?

I think you're just proving my point that the distinction is not nearly as clear as you're making it. Yes, I know what you talk about when you say 'console', but I think that perception should change and we should stop seeing this massive difference between what people think of with these assocations between PC's and consoles.

And you admit there is a pretty large difference still currently. Even when people boot up a current " console sized " PC you will simply be booting Windows 8 and navigating that horrible OS and dealing with usual PC stuff to get to your games.

PC's are getting to be able to be put into a console sized box these days, as I said before, but that doesn't automatically put them into the console category in my view. But yes, Valve building a gaming centric OS and packaging a Steam Box with a gaming controller and building a gaming first console with pure PC components is where I wouldn't mind starting to call the box a true console.

But at this point, only people trying to make a point would call these current living room made PC's a regular gaming console ala the PS4 or Xbox One or Wii U. Just too large of differences for them to be lumped together.

And hell no I wouldn't call an AppleTV or FireTV or GoogleTV a console lol. Thats ridiculous and an insult to consoles. Ouya? Sure, its an Android console system for gaming.

 

[Bjomesphat]

Alienware has a rather elegant solution. You press the shoulder buttons and click in the left analog stick, and it goes into a mouse/pointer mode where you can control the cursor with the left analog stick. I find that it works incredibly well!

Also, don't see why you'd post a desktop image when machines exist that will boot right into Big Picture Mode:

If I wanted to only boot into BPM I could, but my PC is probably used 30% for gaming and 70% for everything else. It makes sense to boot straight to Windows.