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[A Grizzly Bear]

Of course. They've had a week to put this together, though. This just sets a bad precedent for how Massive is going to communicate with the community.

I'm not sure this is an indication of anything. This is marketing and nothing more. They signed a deal with IGN, had to fulfill their side of the deal and did so in the most meaningless way possible. The people involved aren't even from the community team who have actually been answering whatever they can over Twitter.

 

[Kane1345]

If you are like me and you have played 20+ hours of the closed/open beta (I ended up at 21 for closed and 12 for open) then I am pretty sure you will get your money's worth out of the Division.

Playing something for 30 hours is NOT bad value.

This is basically how I feel. If I get a good 20 plus hours out of this, Im fine shelving it till more content comes out. I'll play other games in between.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Really? I played maybe 40 hours of closed Alpha/Beta and open Betas and it was a very, very small portion of what we should expect from the game. It only answered questions regarding basic gameplay and some character progression etc.

We know very little when it comes to end-game and DZ gameplay (besides what we experienced). Nothing about events, raids, PvP (other than what we saw). Yes we have an idea of what we can expect but it's not a good idea.

Don't buy then (talking generally not at you) or get a refund and wait. Because it doesn't seem we are getting anything worth much information so close to release.

Regardless what we got was a enough good idea for the base game and the end game is end game. Rather it's there or not is not my concern until I get there. I got 24 hours more or less from both betas combined it's doing something right.

 

[lt519]

Playing something for 30 hours is NOT bad value.

Yeah, people have some seriously warped perceptions of what these games should provide. If you can get hundreds of hours out of it that's great, but to expect that is bananas. I'd have paid $20 for the beta and would pay for $60 for 3x more of the same with some variation.

 

[Tecnniqe]

This is basically how I feel. If I get a good 20 plus hours out of this, Im fine shelving it till more content comes out. I'll play other games in between.

Spoiler

casual

 

[Calcium]

I'm not sure this is an indication of anything. This is marketing and nothing more. They signed a deal with IGN, had to fulfill their side of the deal and did so in the most meaningless way possible. The people involved aren't even from the community team who have actually been answering whatever they can over Twitter.

That is something we should be fine with? Fair enough, man. The game is coming out next week, this should have been handled better. The questions were answered by the game director, he should know more than "we made changes to the Darkzone".

 

[lt519]

Sad to see no companion app or way to view a players gear/stats. That was a lot of fun in Destiny and being able to view your character and play with your build online a la Diablo III or Destiny was fantastic.

 

[Cabbagehead]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

 

[Calcium]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

I agree. I've never been overly concerned with "End game". It's about the journey, not the destination.

 

[Klyka]

Sad to see no companion app or way to view a players gear/stats. That was a lot of fun in Destiny and being able to view your character and play with your build online a la Diablo III or Destiny was fantastic.

I actually think it would have been fun to have a friend as a drone from a tablet XD

 

[Mutagenic]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

Ehhh, no point in gathering cool loot if I don't have anything awesome to use it on. People are allowed to want good end game content. It really isn't as outlandish as you make it sound.

 

[erawsd]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there.

Its a loot game, in loot games you generally spend 95% of your time at the "end game", thats not a bonus that pretty much is the game. So it makes total sense that people would care about whats there (or whats not there).

 

[The1Ski]

Haven't been following this too closely, but doesn't this imply that there is an end-game of some sort that is a distinct thing, rather than the end-game being to collect high-end gear after the end of the game.

But yeah, that was weak.

EDIT: Changed 'mean' to 'imply', because obviously it doesn't 'mean' jack-shit.

In my mind, "end game" just means what you do at max level and after the story arc.

Could be anything from raids, dungeons, and daily quests to running around a city closing doors.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

It's a longevity issue more than anything else. Especially when the devs are the ones doing the touting. If there is no endgame then it will be very easy to become "burnt out".

 

[Pandy]

The new Trials of Osiris mode is for real. 3v3 with only revives, no respawn. First to five wins (eliminating the other team entirely) wins the match. Basically a tournament where you are eliminated after three match losses. Try and get 8 match wins for the top gear and 9 in a row for elite gear. They match you based on number of wins so if you have 8 match wins you are likely to face another 8 win team. To sweaty for me.

It's actually really cool and a good way to get end game gear. I suck at it, but oh well. Iron Banner has end game gear drops too so there's that. If anything after the House of Wolves expansion was so lackluster the bulk of Destiny was PvP focused for a while.

They also just did Crimson Days where it was 2v2 and if your teammate got died you got stronger. So they throw some new modes in there now and then. I expect this is really what Division events will be, few day long events to do stuff for gear. I don't think they'll have missions in the Dark Zone but I do think they'll increase the AI encounter rate.

I left before Osiris was added, but frankly, if Destiny hadn't had gear at all I'd probably still be playing PvP just for that Bungie shoot-bang goodness.

As others have said above, the problem with DZ is that its best feature is also its curse.
It revolves entirely around the process of getting gear, so unless there is another mode to play once you've 'maxed out' your gear, then DZ play is going to lose interest very quickly. Also, because gear is tied to level, there's no real incentive to play in the DZ until you're at max level as presumably the PvE will keep you sufficiently stocked until then.

So DZ will become a short-term finale to the game once you're finished with the PvE content, just as it was in the Beta.

(I'm sure you'll have to transit the DZ a few times to get to all the PvE missions, but once you get to a fast-travel point on the far side that won't mean much.)

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

For me, though, it's all about the carrot on a stick. The carrot is loot and I need ALLLL the damn carrots.

edit: actually, the carrots are scarfs. I need all the fucking scarfs.

 

[Tecnniqe]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

Its an RPG looter.
End game is literally the meat of the game, see Diablo.

Do high end content > get loot > repeat until more loot > higher end content > even more loot > perfect loot drops > expansion > level > get loot > high end loot > blabla

For me, though, it's all about the carrot on a stick. The carrot is loot and I need ALLLL the damn carrots.

edit: actually, the carrots are scarfs. I need all the fucking scarfs.

pom poms.

 

[Calcium]

edit: actually, the carrots are scarfs. I need all the fucking scarfs.

This.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Its a loot game, in loot games you generally spend 95% of you time at the "end game", thats not a bonus that pretty much is the game. So it makes total sense that people would care about whats there (or whats not there).

Yeah loot is loot and it's awesome to have more explored and discovered. But let's not kid ourselves in saying that end game is end game. Because it's it's just another cycle of end game after end game. What people what is a longer game with more high level drops and kits.

 

[deoee]

I'm kinda unhyped for the day now after that shitty ama :/

 

[Xamtheking]

I'm kinda unhyped for the day now after that shitty ama :/

Ignore that shitty IGN AMA

 

[A Grizzly Bear]

That is something we should be fine with? Fair enough, man. The game is coming out next week, this should have been handled better. The questions were answered by the game director, he should know more than "we made changes to the Darkzone".

We shouldn't be fine with it, but you also shouldn't be surprised by this shit anymore. They're running a business that relies heavily on large sales numbers and this "AMA" is just part of the marketing machines lead up to launch. This isn't for people heavily invested in the game, it's for the majority of people who hopped into the open beta and knows nothing about the game otherwise.

Also, you don't honestly believe that the Game Director didn't know what they changed, do you?

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

As others have said above, the problem with DZ is that its best feature is also its curse.
It revolves entirely around the process of getting gear, so unless there is another mode to play once you've 'maxed out' your gear, then DZ play is going to lose interest very quickly. Also, because gear is tied to level, there's no real incentive to play in the DZ until you're at max level as presumably the PvE will keep you sufficiently stocked until then.

So DZ will become a short-term finale to the game once you're finished with the PvE content, just as it was in the Beta.

(I'm sure you'll have to transit the DZ a few times to get to all the PvE missions, but once you get to a fast-travel point on the far side that won't mean much.)

I completely disagree. Yes, the main objective of the DZ is acquiring loot, but saying that it will become boring? We must have been playing different games. I had a ton of fun just running around with my friends and PvPing, whether there was loot involved or not. Honestly it was some of the most fun I've had in any multiplayer game ever, and that includes Destiny and it's raids.

 

[Granadier]

Really hope they sell season pass seperate.

Don't want to buy it until I get some hours in the full game

Feel the same way. As much as part of me wants to just go all in, I don't want to get burned over again like Destiny.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I'm kinda unhyped for the day now after that shitty ama :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPHHDtrxbc

 

[deoee]

Ignore that shitty IGN AMA

Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting the game etc.

But dodging questions and not answering anything is kinda lame

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Yeah loot is loot and it's awesome to have more explored and discovered. But let's not kid ourselves in saying that end game is end game. Because it's it's just another cycle of end game after end game. What people what is a longer game with more high level drops and kits.

Most of these types of games really get moving when the player gets to end-game. Thats when everyone's leveled, has good loot, and is ready to "begin" playing what will sustain the community for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mutagenic]

Most of these types of games really get moving when the player gets to end-game. Thats when everyone's leveled, has good loot, and is ready to "begin" playing what will sustain the community for the foreseeable future.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[Granadier]

Either end-game doesn't exists a-la raids, or they want it to be a surprise.

I'm leaning towards the former.

 

[Calcium]

We shouldn't be fine with it, but you also shouldn't be surprised by this shit anymore. They're running a business that relies heavily on large sales numbers and this "AMA" is just part of the marketing machines lead up to launch. This isn't for people heavily invested in the game, it's for the majority of people who hopped into the open beta and knows nothing about the game otherwise.

Also, you don't honestly believe that the Game Director didn't know what they changed, do you?

I haven't been following the game long enough to form an opinion about Massive so this AMA absolutely surprised me. It's lazy non-communication a week out from their release date.

No, of course the game director knows what was changed. That is my point. He should have elaborated. They are being frustratingly vague at a time when they are getting ready to release. The time for dodging questions should be over.

 

[Pandy]

To me the whole end game obsession. Tells me a game can't stand on its own feet without something at the end. End game should be bonus not something that has to be there. Gaming communities have this wrapped sense building.

I think the game can stand on it's own, and I'm buying it with that in mind.

But if the game's best mechanic revolves around a thing which has an end point (unlike a round-based PvP mode which can be played infinitely until you get bored) then people will want that end-point to be moved as far back as possible so that they can continue enjoying the game at it's best for as long as they can.

Wanting an enjoyable thing to go on for as long as is possible isn't a strange concept.

 

[LifEndz]

Either end-game doesn't exists a-la raids, or they want it to be a surprise.

I'm leaning towards the former.

Please be excited for the dark zone?

 

[EL CUCO]

Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting the game etc.

But dodging questions and not answering anything is kinda lame

Its a bad showing for being a week away from launch. We've learned more about the game up until yesterday than from anything that was actually answered today.

 

[Granadier]

Please be excited for the dark zone?

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm pumped as hell for the DZ. Most of my time will be spent there.
Just saying that the PvE endgame will probably not be WoW/Destiny style raids.

 

[The1Ski]

Its an RPG looter.
End game is literally the meat of the game, see Diablo.

Do high end content > get loot > repeat until more loot > higher end content > even more loot > perfect loot drops > expansion > level > get loot > high end loot > blabla

Seems like this banana isn't going to be curved enough for ya.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Either end-game doesn't exists a-la raids, or they want it to be a surprise.

I'm leaning towards the former.

This is what i'm thinking as well. (cant decide which though 50/50 likely in my mind)

If they had some badass raid and or endgame strategy you'd think they have been hyping it up though don you? No reason at all for keeping marketable stuff like that hidden is there?

 

[The_Hitcher89]

AMAs, huh

Do them properly, or don't fucking do them. That goes to IGN and Massive tbh.

 

[keltickennedy]

Really hope they sell season pass seperate.

Don't want to buy it until I get some hours in the full game

Wait, what? Has a game ever forced people to buy the season pass?

 

[Calcium]

If they had some badass raid and or endgame strategy you'd think they have been hyping it up though don you? No reason at all for keeping marketable stuff like that hidden is there?

They are probably hoping the Dark Zone and challenge modes will keep people occupied until they can finish the raid.

AMAs, huh

Do them properly, or don't fucking do them. That goes to IGN and Massive tbh.

Exactly. This didn't do either of them any favors.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Its a bad showing for being a week away from launch. We've learned more about the game up until yesterday than from anything that was actually answered today.

For future reference don't expect IGN AMA's to do anything but pick vague questions.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Seems like this banana isn't going to be curved enough for ya.

AMAs, huh

Do them properly, or don't fucking do them. That goes to IGN and Massive tbh.

 

[M.W.]

What a massive disappointment. There's obviously a clear division between what players want and what they gonna get.

 

[Mutagenic]

This is what i'm thinking as well. (cant decide which though 50/50 likely in my mind)

If they had some badass raid and or endgame strategy you'd think they have been hyping it up though don you? No reason at all for keeping marketable stuff like that hidden is there?

They're is zero chance they're hiding something like a raid when the mention of it would be rewarded with more pre-orders. Not a chance.

 

[Granadier]

Think more Diablo than WoW/Destiny

 

[Tainted]

For future reference don't expect IGN AMA's to do anything but pick vague questions.

Yeh exactly, the questions were heavily vetted...you were never going to get any juicy information from a AMA. I can't blame them for not wanting to leave alot to surprise once it is released #glasshalffull

 

[Calcium]

What a massive disappointment. There's obviously a clear division between what players want and what they gonna get.

You're a clever one.

 

[Gryph]

Its a loot game, in loot games you generally spend 95% of your time at the "end game", thats not a bonus that pretty much is the game. So it makes total sense that people would care about whats there (or whats not there).

I don't want to invalidate people who want an end game experience. It's totally fine to want that in this game and to be turned off if it's not there.

But I don't really agree with the idea that a loot game is all about the end game. Borderlands and Diablo are both great loot game RPGs that aren't about the end game.

Additionally, even though their sequels had enhanced loot treadmill systems that extended the game experience only a small percentage of players ever got to the "endgame" systems in those games. In fact I'd say that these games don't add much additional content if any beyond the idea of replaying the game experience on a higher difficulty...

So I feel like it's unfair to say that loot games are end game focused. They're loot focused and The Division seems to do loot really well.

Even the Beta made me excited and interested in the colored drops and what I could do to get better gear.

 

[gbpackers25]

What a massive disappointment. There's obviously a clear division between what players want and what they gonna get.

I see what you did there

 

[erawsd]

Yeah loot is loot and it's awesome to have more explored and discovered. But let's not kid ourselves in saying that end game is end game. Because it's it's just another cycle of end game after end game. What people what is a longer game with more high level drops and kits.

Of course "end game" isn't the end of the game, that's my point. The developers have created a game where there is an expectation that players are going to grind the same content for better rewards. There's absolutely"obsessive" about players wanting that content to have a satisfying loop.

It would be unreasonable for anyone to expect them to provide hundreds of hours worth of content but I don't see anyone here suggesting that.

 

[komplanen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_efRUrmjSc

EDIT: Wrong thread