Support NeoGAF

[ReiGun]

It's literally insane that they won't tell Iris, yet they write her character so badly that you still dislike her.

It's an amazing talent the teams on these shows have. The ability to have female characters go through harrowing experiences or just generally be treated poorly and still manage to engender no sympathy from the audience.

Iris has everyone in her life constantly lying to her. Everyone now including her boyfriend, who is suddenly acting very strange and won't talk to her. Her best friend's love for her means that he frequently shows no respect for her relationship. She's generally treated like an idiot and a child by her friends, family, and co workers. Everyone hates her.

Laurel sinks into a deep depression following the death of her boyfriend (which she is somewhat responsible for) that has her becoming an alcoholic and nearly killing herself. This plotline includes a fun scene where the show's main character, the hero, basically mocks her alcoholism cause she made him angry.

Spoiler

Pulls herself out of that, gets to a good place, only to find her sister dead in an alleyway. Is left to mostly grieve alone because she's locked out of the investigation by Oliver and is afraid to tell her father because of his failing health. So she finds a new outlet in boxing, eventually trains to take her sister's mantle and becomes the new Black Canary. Helps save Starling City from Brick and works to help Team Arrow from both within the legal system and on the streets.

Everyone hates her.

Felicity is

Spoiler

rejected by the man she loves because reasons, and then watches him make every stupid, selfish decision possible showing no real concern for everyone else. Such decisions include him going off to fight the head of an assassin organization to the death, being "killed," then going to get a rematch cause his ego was bruised, then considering joining said assassin organization. She finally starts to tell his stupid ass off,

and everyone turns on her. Immediately.

Like, how do you fumble this shit this badly? How do you write these characters in such a way that your audience simply cannot see things from their perspective and notice when their reactions are justified? Obviously, I left details out and those details are the things that answer my question. lol Things like

Spoiler

dragging out Laurel telling Capt Lance,

or giving Iris pretty much nothing to do for the first third or so of the season besides be Barry's unrequited love are sorts of decisions that get in the way with these characters.

Still, as many of us say in this here thread, at least they aren't Barbara from Gotham.

Edit: added spoiler tags for those of y'all who haven't seen Season 3 of Arrow.

she's not going to magically become chill once she knows Barry is Flash.

From what we know about Iris, she's going to flip out on everyone for lying to her and treating her like a child. Which is totally justified from her perspective, but is also going to cement the fact that the fanbase will hate her forever.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Oh my god the bee puns, and then having the computer equivalent of a wizard duel, and the awkward date. How many awkward dates are we gonna have on this show?

It's an amazing talent the teams on these shows have. The ability to have female characters go through harrowing experiences or just generally be treated poorly and still manage to engender no sympathy from the audience.

Iris has everyone in her life constantly lying to her. Everyone now including her boyfriend, who is suddenly acting very strange and won't talk to her. Her best friend's love for her means that he frequently shows no respect for her relationship. She's generally treated like an idiot and a child by her friends, family, and co workers. Everyone hates her.

Laurel sinks into a deep depression following the death of her boyfriend (which she is somewhat responsible for) that has her becoming an alcoholic and nearly killing herself. This plotline includes a fun scene where the show's main character, the hero, basically mocks her alcoholism cause she made him angry. Pulls herself out of that, gets to a good place, only to find her sister dead in an alleyway. Is left to mostly grieve alone because she's locked out of the investigation by Oliver and is afraid to tell her father because of his failing health. So she finds a new outlet in boxing, eventually trains to take her sister's mantle and becomes the new Black Canary. Helps save Starling City from Brick and works to help Team Arrow from both within the legal system and on the streets. Everyone hates her.

Felicity is rejected by the man she loves because reasons, and then watches him make every stupid, selfish decision possible showing no real concern for everyone else. Such decisions include him going off to fight the head of an assassin organization to the death, being "killed," then going to get a rewatch cause his ego was bruised, then considering joining said assassin organization. She finally starts to tell his stupid ass off, and everyone turns on her. Immediately.

Like, how do you fumble this shit this badly? How do you write these characters in such a way that your audience simply cannot see things from their perspective and notice when their reactions are justified? Obviously, I left details out and those details are the things that answer my question. lol Things like dragging out Laurel telling Capt Lance, or giving Iris pretty much nothing to do for the first third or so of the season besides be Barry's unrequited love are sorts of decisions that get in the way with these characters.

Still, as many of us say in this here thread, at least they aren't Barbara from Gotham.


From what we know about Iris, she's going to flip out on everyone for lying to her and treating her like a child. Which is totally justified from her perspective, but is also going to cement the fact that the fanbase will hate her forever.

A++ Fucking posting right here. Fucking S ranked. Getting that pure platinum.

 

[Volimar]

Laurel should tell Barry how well it works out when you lie to people you care about.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Laurel should tell Barry how well it works out when you lie to people you care about.

That's not actually a bad idea. Especially considering how much Laurel has improved, that's something her character would probably do at this point.

 

[ReiGun]

Laurel should tell Barry how well it works out when you lie to people you care about.

She should tell Joe, since he's the orchestrating this "No one tell Iris" shit.

 

[El Topo]

It's an amazing talent the teams on these shows have. The ability to have female characters go through harrowing experiences or just generally be treated poorly and still manage to engender no sympathy from the audience.

You can add Daredevil to that list. I wonder if the bad portrayal of women in comics is (in part) to blame for that.

 

[Yager]

It's an amazing talent the teams on these shows have. The ability to have female characters go through harrowing experiences or just generally be treated poorly and still manage to engender no sympathy from the audience.

Iris has everyone in her life constantly lying to her. Everyone now including her boyfriend, who is suddenly acting very strange and won't talk to her. Her best friend's love for her means that he frequently shows no respect for her relationship. She's generally treated like an idiot and a child by her friends, family, and co workers. Everyone hates her.

Laurel sinks into a deep depression following the death of her boyfriend (which she is somewhat responsible for) that has her becoming an alcoholic and nearly killing herself. This plotline includes a fun scene where the show's main character, the hero, basically mocks her alcoholism cause she made him angry.

Spoiler

Pulls herself out of that, gets to a good place, only to find her sister dead in an alleyway. Is left to mostly grieve alone because she's locked out of the investigation by Oliver and is afraid to tell her father because of his failing health. So she finds a new outlet in boxing, eventually trains to take her sister's mantle and becomes the new Black Canary. Helps save Starling City from Brick and works to help Team Arrow from both within the legal system and on the streets.

Everyone hates her.

Felicity is

Spoiler

rejected by the man she loves because reasons, and then watches him make every stupid, selfish decision possible showing no real concern for everyone else. Such decisions include him going off to fight the head of an assassin organization to the death, being "killed," then going to get a rematch cause his ego was bruised, then considering joining said assassin organization. She finally starts to tell his stupid ass off,

and everyone turns on her. Immediately.

Like, how do you fumble this shit this badly? How do you write these characters in such a way that your audience simply cannot see things from their perspective and notice when their reactions are justified? Obviously, I left details out and those details are the things that answer my question. lol Things like

Spoiler

dragging out Laurel telling Capt Lance,

or giving Iris pretty much nothing to do for the first third or so of the season besides be Barry's unrequited love are sorts of decisions that get in the way with these characters.

Still, as many of us say in this here thread, at least they aren't Barbara from Gotham.

Edit: added spoiler tags for those of y'all who haven't seen Season 3 of Arrow.


From what we know about Iris, she's going to flip out on everyone for lying to her and treating her like a child. Which is totally justified from her perspective, but is also going to cement the fact that the fanbase will hate her forever.

Marry me.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

So guys, what's the consensus on the Flash suit? I haven't read the comics or anything, so I'm a bit curious.

Reverse Flash costume is much better.
Take that same suit turn it Red and it is perfect.

 

[RoninChaos]

It's an amazing talent the teams on these shows have. The ability to have female characters go through harrowing experiences or just generally be treated poorly and still manage to engender no sympathy from the audience.

Iris has everyone in her life constantly lying to her. Everyone now including her boyfriend, who is suddenly acting very strange and won't talk to her. Her best friend's love for her means that he frequently shows no respect for her relationship. She's generally treated like an idiot and a child by her friends, family, and co workers. Everyone hates her.

Laurel sinks into a deep depression following the death of her boyfriend (which she is somewhat responsible for) that has her becoming an alcoholic and nearly killing herself. This plotline includes a fun scene where the show's main character, the hero, basically mocks her alcoholism cause she made him angry.

Spoiler

Pulls herself out of that, gets to a good place, only to find her sister dead in an alleyway. Is left to mostly grieve alone because she's locked out of the investigation by Oliver and is afraid to tell her father because of his failing health. So she finds a new outlet in boxing, eventually trains to take her sister's mantle and becomes the new Black Canary. Helps save Starling City from Brick and works to help Team Arrow from both within the legal system and on the streets.

Everyone hates her.

Felicity is

Spoiler

rejected by the man she loves because reasons, and then watches him make every stupid, selfish decision possible showing no real concern for everyone else. Such decisions include him going off to fight the head of an assassin organization to the death, being "killed," then going to get a rematch cause his ego was bruised, then considering joining said assassin organization. She finally starts to tell his stupid ass off,

and everyone turns on her. Immediately.

Like, how do you fumble this shit this badly? How do you write these characters in such a way that your audience simply cannot see things from their perspective and notice when their reactions are justified? Obviously, I left details out and those details are the things that answer my question. lol Things like

Spoiler

dragging out Laurel telling Capt Lance,

or giving Iris pretty much nothing to do for the first third or so of the season besides be Barry's unrequited love are sorts of decisions that get in the way with these characters.

Still, as many of us say in this here thread, at least they aren't Barbara from Gotham.

Edit: added spoiler tags for those of y'all who haven't seen Season 3 of Arrow.


From what we know about Iris, she's going to flip out on everyone for lying to her and treating her like a child. Which is totally justified from her perspective, but is also going to cement the fact that the fanbase will hate her forever.

Yeah, it's purely a writing thing. Even on the last episode they had Barry give a reasonable explanation to Iris about Eddie's behavior and she basically was like "I get it, but fuck you tell me everything anyway." THAT is the thing that makes people dislike her. Because we can relate to her wanting to know, we can relate to a certain extent as to why she's acting that way, but Eddie is a good dude and throwing down the gauntlet on him is ridiculous. She's only doing that because she wants to. NO ONE answers well to ultimatums. No one. And Eddie has been understanding and has put up with her shit with Barry like at the bowling alley. Hell she threw a monkey wrench in Barry's relationship with Linda because she didn't like the fact that Barry wasn't fawning over her anymore. Things like that and what she pulled on Eddie are why people don't like her because of how she acts when she doesn't get what she wants.

That's where the writing goes south. The way they have the characters react is insane. The reason people like Thea now is because she found out and was like "Oh! This makes sense now!" Instead of losing her shit.

 

[Joni]

The problem is a bit: Barbara never will have an impact on Batman. Iris will never become a crime fighter. Karen won't either. Laurel had to be sidelined from the main plot for two seasons. They are characters that have to be there for which there is no real plot outside of shitting stuff up for the main character. That is different from Felicity and Caitlin, they're there to work for Oliver and Barry. The love interest angle on those characters isn't the reason they're there, they have a job first. Which is why people wanted Oliver X Felicity originally, they were more equals. Same for Barry X Caitlin over Barry X Iris. Yet, you can't write the first group out because they're instrumental to their respective heroes.

 

[The Silver]

I don't think people hate Laurel much anymore, she's no longer in an antagonistic role.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Major Flash plot point at the end of tonight's episode of Arrow. Lol they're punishing people who don't watch both shows.

I don't watch Arrow. Can someone just post what happened with spoiler tags if you want.

 

[infi]

I don't watch Arrow. Can someone just post what happened with spoiler tags if you want.

Spoiler

They fought a metahuman and at the end dropped him off at STAR Labs. The metahuman was originally from Central city so they assumed that's where he got his powers however Cisco found out that the guy wasn't in Central at the time of the particle accelerator explosion so he either got his powers from elsewhere or the range of the particle accelerator was much larger than Central City.

 

[More_Badass]

Finally catching up. The guy that can outrun lightning gets surrounded by bees and can only flail helplessly? Come on now

 

[Sh1ner]

Finally catching up. The guy that can outrun lightning gets surrounded by bees and can only flail helplessly? Come on now

Yea I had major issues this episode with flashes power level being dropped significantly for no good reason but plot.It would have been worthwhile if it was revealed that the bees were emitting a sound or something that interfered with the flash from thinking or moving ... well something instead of yep flash is now slow.

I hated this weeks ep, its the weakest ep of the entire show so far.

 

[Setsuna]

Yea I had major issues this episode with flashes power level being dropped significantly for no good reason but plot.It would have been worthwhile if it was revealed that the bees were emitting a sound or something that interfered with the flash from thinking or moving ... well something instead of yep flash is now slow.

I hated this weeks ep, its the weakest ep of the entire show so far.

Pssh In like episode 2 he was fast enough to have an entire conversation to himself while simultaneously running around Iris without her even knowing it

 

[GulAtiCa]

Yeah I thought Flash being slow when it came to the bees was very odd too.

 

[strafer]

I hate to say it but Arrow had the best episode this week.

 

[Neoxon]

I hate to say it but Arrow had the best episode this week.

I'm gonna have to agree on that one.

 

[HairyMonster]

Yea I had major issues this episode with flashes power level being dropped significantly for no good reason but plot.It would have been worthwhile if it was revealed that the bees were emitting a sound or something that interfered with the flash from thinking or moving ... well something instead of yep flash is now slow.

I hated this weeks ep, its the weakest ep of the entire show so far.

Yep very odd, they did try to cover it up with him not knowing the exit and the team fucking up hence getting surrounded in a confined space but hell he could of flashed to every possible route before the bees moved an inch

 

[BrokenFiction]

I'm gonna have to agree on that one.

More to the point, Ray was the best part of both episodes this week.

 

[Penguin]

More to the point, Ray was the best part of both episodes this week.

Here, here!

I can totally see him being the central point of the spin-off. With other more serious heroes to bounce off of.

 

[Cafeman]

Yeah I thought Flash being slow when it came to the bees was very odd too.

I took it as a psychological issue - he was freaked out and panicked. Or, robot bees >> Speed Force.

 

[pestul]

Yeah I thought Flash being slow when it came to the bees was very odd too.

Really Barry.. although they were robotic bees in all fairness.

 

[Magwik]

I don't mind the bees thing
By now I expect Barry to be taking dives as often as Supes and MM did in the Justice League shows

 

[DJwest]

So will Barry ever become "DOFP Quicksilver" fast ? It was pretty disappointing he couldn't outrun bees imo

EDIT: welp, I guess I'm not the only one who thought so.

 

[Magwik]

So will Barry ever become "DOFP Quicksilver" fast ? It was pretty disappointing he couldn't outrun bees imo

EDIT: welp, I guess I'm not the only one who thought so.

Wot
He's faster than both movie versions of Quicksilver
They only show it when they need to and hold him back because they have episode orders to fill
He broke the god damn time barrier

 

[DrROBschiz]

I don't mind the bees thing
By now I expect Barry to be taking dives as often as Supes and MM did in the Justice League shows

Its odd that he waited until after felicity deactivated the bees to cuff the bandit.

He could have easily took her out of the pictures and shut down the entire facility in seconds.

They need to come up with better ways for villiandls to thwart the flash that actually make sense. Im tired of them getting lazy and putting the flash is situations that he could easily handle and making him struggle for no reason other than to move the plot forward.

I get its a comic book show but if you are going to establish new rules for your world you should at least logically follow the ones you make.

 

[DJwest]

Wot
He's faster than both movie versions of Quicksilver
They only show it when they need to and hold him back because they have episode orders to fill
He broke the god damn time barrier

I find it hard to reconcile the fact that the same Barry that broke the time barrier couldn't outrun freaking bees. Also, guys like Heat and Cold should not even be able to react because of his speed but he always seems to have such a hard time against them.

 

[Magwik]

Its odd that he waited until after felicity deactivated the bees to cuff the bandit.

He could have easily took her out of the pictures and shut down the entire facility in seconds.

They need to come up with better ways for villiandls to thwart the flash that actually make sense. Im tired of them getting lazy and putting the flash is situations that he could easily handle and making him struggle for no reason other than to move the plot forward.

I get its a comic book show but if you are going to establish new rules for your world you should at least logically follow the ones you make.

It's not entertaining to watch Barry just zoom by and lock the baddie up within the first 5 minutes. There's no tension and it's over fairly quickly. The only people that can effectively challenge Barry in this universe are fairly limited.
Solving everything fairly quickly is actually an issue I have with Felicity. I liked a lot of S1 of Arrow because we actually had him hunting people down, there was suspense when you're looking for someone. Now everyone is found within 3 seconds of Felicity near the keyboard, so instead of building and tension, suspense, or urgency, they have to find other ways to drag out the episode because of how quickly they were found

 

[More_Badass]

I find it hard to reconcile the fact that it's the same Barry broke the time barrier couldn't outrun freaking bees. Also, guys like Heat and Cold should not even be able to react because of his speed but he always seems to have such a hard time against them.

The Heatwave and Cold thing was made even more silly by the fact that in this episode, he took the two guys' guns before they could react. And yet he can't do the same with Heatwave and Cold

It's not entertaining to watch Barry just zoom by and lock the baddie up within the first 5 minutes. There's no tension and it's over fairly quickly. The only people that can effectively challenge Barry in this universe are fairly limited.
Solving everything fairly quickly is actually an issue I have with Felicity. I liked a lot of S1 of Arrow because we actually had him hunting people down, there was suspense when you're looking for someone. Now everyone is found within 3 seconds of Felicity near the keyboard, so instead of building and tension, suspense, or urgency, they have to find other ways to drag out the episode because of how quickly they were found

Definitely. But they could have made him actually attempt something cool with his powers instead of "Oh, no, I'm cornered", cut to Barry stumbling out of the building and dying.

 

[More_Badass]

Sorry, double post

 

[Hyun Sai]

The Heatwave and Cold thing was made even more silly by the fact that in this episode, he took the two guys' guns before they could react. And yet he can't do the same with Heatwave and Cold

When watching something where the main character is totally overpowered borderline godlike compared to 99% of the rest, stupid things are bound to happen, A LOT.

It's the main reason I stopped this very soon and prefer more grounded heroes.

But to each its own I guess.

 

[More_Badass]

When watching something where the main character is totally overpowered borderline godlike compared to 99% of the rest, stupid things are bound to happen, A LOT.

It's the main reason I stopped this very soon and prefer more grounded heroes.

But to each its own I guess.

Oh, I enjoy more comic-book shows like Flash and more grounded shows like Daredevil equally. They each succeed at different things.

I don't mind them having to power down Flash to make for tension or cool action scenes. But there's a difference between powering down and making the character act like an idiot. Like it would have been cool if he had tried to vibrate and make the bees pass through him, but it was too much effort to sustain it, and then have him get stung. Something like that.

 

[Do Better]

Well, the first time Cisco gave him the wrong directions

the second time he decided to job a little bit so Felicity could hacker duel

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yea I had major issues this episode with flashes power level being dropped significantly for no good reason but plot.It would have been worthwhile if it was revealed that the bees were emitting a sound or something that interfered with the flash from thinking or moving ... well something instead of yep flash is now slow.

I hated this weeks ep, its the weakest ep of the entire show so far.

I think they handwaved Barry not escaping because a) the Bees were literally everywhere in much greater numbers than he had anticipated and b) Cisco accidentally told him the wrong directions in real time, which resulted in him running face first into a swarm and panicking as they surrounded him. The only chance they had was getting him in an enclosed space, even Barry laughs off the idea at the start, "What, I can't outrun bees? Pssh."

His last encounter with Cold/Heatwave, he simply crashes their motorbike, drags Snart to the middle of the woods before he can fight back, and tells him to cut the shit before he loses his temper. I think in the course of 15 episodes, they've established that firearms aren't really a threat to him any longer, and that was hammered home with this week's clowning of multiple armed robbers. It's not inconsistent, they've been building up to this.

As he gets more powerful, they have to scale up the villain threats (and various contrivances) to make him use his powers more creatively. So they will bring out multiple hostages, multiple bombs, stacked death traps, sleeping/toxic gas, frictionless floor panels, teleportation, mirages/clones/holograms, telepathy, telekenesis, super strength/resistance to harm, *comic spoiler*

Spoiler

Velocity 9

, and yes, enclosed spaces, to give The Flash a hard time and some actual tension. And yes, Barry will have to occasionally pick up the idiot ball like he does in comics and on TV in order for half of these hair-brained schemes to work, at least the first time.

It's not entertaining to watch Barry just zoom by and lock the baddie up within the first 5 minutes. There's no tension and it's over fairly quickly. The only people that can effectively challenge Barry in this universe are fairly limited.
Solving everything fairly quickly is actually an issue I have with Felicity. I liked a lot of S1 of Arrow because we actually had him hunting people down, there was suspense when you're looking for someone. Now everyone is found within 3 seconds of Felicity near the keyboard, so instead of building and tension, suspense, or urgency, they have to find other ways to drag out the episode because of how quickly they were found

The show even shows how this would look, in the first episode after the time travel. Weather Wizard is shown as one of the most dangerous opponents...when he has prep time and the element of surprise. Barry catches him waking up from a nap and the fight is over before he can even throw a snowball.

 

[Blader]

I think Iris has been a generally weak character so far but I really don't have a problem with her reactions in this episode. I said it before, but Eddie is such a terrible liar that he's made it all too obvious to her that what he's hiding isn't job-related, like it was some undercover case he can't talk about or some harsh shit he saw on patrol that left him shook or something like that.

 

[DrROBschiz]

It's not entertaining to watch Barry just zoom by and lock the baddie up within the first 5 minutes. There's no tension and it's over fairly quickly. The only people that can effectively challenge Barry in this universe are fairly limited.
Solving everything fairly quickly is actually an issue I have with Felicity. I liked a lot of S1 of Arrow because we actually had him hunting people down, there was suspense when you're looking for someone. Now everyone is found within 3 seconds of Felicity near the keyboard, so instead of building and tension, suspense, or urgency, they have to find other ways to drag out the episode because of how quickly they were found

Its not entertaining for me to become disinterested in the character either

Look I totally get your point. Thats why I want the new talents that are tackling these challenges that are inherent in overpowered superheroes to "Do it better".

You make it sound like this is the ONLY way they could approach the story at this point.

Its false suspense and the viewer knows it the second they start to think about it. I would appreciate the writers taking to the time to find a more clever way to push the story along and include underpowered (but possibly clever and intrusive) villains if they must.

Im not trying to drag the show through the mud. They have accomplished far greater things on the CW than I thought they could. Its a shame their approach to the inevitable roadblock of writing the Flash is pushing them into the same box as those that came before them.

I wouldn't mind them making serious sacrifices to "The Fomula" if it means it would boost the quality of the show.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Yeah, it's purely a writing thing. Even on the last episode they had Barry give a reasonable explanation to Iris about Eddie's behavior and she basically was like "I get it, but fuck you tell me everything anyway." THAT is the thing that makes people dislike her. Because we can relate to her wanting to know, we can relate to a certain extent as to why she's acting that way, but Eddie is a good dude and throwing down the gauntlet on him is ridiculous. She's only doing that because she wants to. NO ONE answers well to ultimatums. No one. And Eddie has been understanding and has put up with her shit with Barry like at the bowling alley. Hell she threw a monkey wrench in Barry's relationship with Linda because she didn't like the fact that Barry wasn't fawning over her anymore. Things like that and what she pulled on Eddie are why people don't like her because of how she acts when she doesn't get what she wants.

That's where the writing goes south. The way they have the characters react is insane. The reason people like Thea now is because she found out and was like "Oh! This makes sense now!" Instead of losing her shit.

Barry told a convincing lie, but lets not forget Iris and Eddie have been going out for awhile now.

Like others have said in this thread, Iris, who we are supposed to believe is investigative reporter material, knows subconsciously that Barry's explanation isn't what's bothering Eddie. She also knows that everyone seems to be in on it except her. If you've ever been the odd man out you know how shitty that feels.

Her reaction is justified. It's just that we've grown to like Eddie and we know that the secret, from our perspective, isn't worth breaking up over, so we feel like she's over reacting. When you go from telling each other everything, to holding secrets and getting caught in lies it can hurt.

I think this is the first show where I don't mind that the main character isn't with the love of his life.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Barry told a convincing lie, but lets not forget Iris and Eddie have been going out for awhile now.

Like others have said i this thread, Iris, who we are supposed to believe is investigative reporter material, knows subconsciously that Barry's explanation isn't what's bothering Eddie. She also knows that everyone seems to be in on it except her. If you've ever been the odd man out you know how shitty that feels.

Her reaction is justified. It's just that we've grown to like Eddie and we know that the secret, from our perspective, isn't worth breaking up over, so we feel like she's over reacting. When you go from telling each other everything, to holding secrets and getting caught in lies it can hurt.

I think this is the first show where I don't mind that the main character isn't with the love of his life.

This just makes Eddie more justified in hating Barry and Joe. They could have told him they were working together without revealing his secret identity, which put him in an awkward position in their relationship. Eddie even told Joe this was fucked up, and Joe was all, "not my problem."

All of this is because of the genre trope of "oneitis". I think it's much better if they have the characters meet organically during the course of the story, so we as an audience can actually see why they belong together other than the characters telling us.

 

[Jest Chillin]

No. She's over reacting because she's over reacting. She and Eddie aren't married. They just barely moved in together and the majority of their relationship was in secret. They are not a bastion of pure love and devotion. Eddie keeping part of his job to himself is perfectly fine for where they are.

And there's no way in hell that I buy that she "knows everyone else is in on it." She grew up with Barry but doesn't realize he's The Flash, her investigative skills are poor.

There is no justification for her response to Eddie. There's been zero showcasing of any skills as an investigative reporter. And they've actually written her to be the epitome of what friendzoned men THINK the women they pine after are.

They have shouldered Iris with 100% of the crappy CW relationship drama for the show and it's killing the reception of her character. Even Arrow split the cheesy love story drama between multiple people. Here it's literally just Barry and Iris and Iris doesn't get to be cool and save the day to redeem herself.

 

[Corpekata]

Iris just has an obnoxious case of Plot Psychic. I hate when shows do "keeping a secret stories" because everyone seems instantly clued in that Person X is acting different and they always turn the character that suspects into huge assholes. They think because the audience knows the secret that they can get away with them acting paranoid and accusatory because we know they DO have some secret, but it just makes them seem like they'd do it about everything.

 

[Shanlei91]

I like that while watching, my gf kept calling Iris cray cray and unreasonable. Poor Eddie.

I hope Wells isn't killed this season and comes back to form the Legion of Doom, using his knowledge of past heroes and villains for both recruitment and countering. Would be a fun spin for the TV universe.

 

[Chucker]

Just noticed this in my bathroom. Ship it, folks!

 

[ReiGun]

I don't think people hate Laurel much anymore, she's no longer in an antagonistic role.

On Gaf at least, people seem to have turned a corner and opened up to her. I think it comes down to three factors. 1) Her screen time is reduced. 2) She's generally trying to help Team Arrow now. 3) Oliver has been such an over the top asshole to her and everyone else that she no longer comes out looking like the bad guy when she tells him off.

Of course, that's just Gaf. Go elsewhere - Twitter namely, Youtube as well - and there are still a significant number of people who just hate her for whatever reason. And the longer this season goes on, the harder time I have understanding them.

You can add Daredevil to that list. I wonder if the bad portrayal of women in comics is (in part) to blame for that.

Possibly, but I have trouble going with this considering these women are based on some of the better written and treated female characters in comics. Hell, Laurel is the freaking Black Canary! How do you mess up one of DC's premiere women that badly for two seasons?

Haven't finished DD, but if they ruin Karen and Claire...man listen.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

This is what put me off the series to be honest. I was sold the first three episodes but then the stupid drama started and some lazy writing on some of the villains and now it's just the typical CW series. Meh. I'm still watching because I want to know what happens with Wells /Zoom (plus Grant and Jesse do a great job in their respective roles), but I honestly don't know if I'll go on to watch S2 if the typical CW drama continues.

 

[More_Badass]

You can add Daredevil to that list. I wonder if the bad portrayal of women in comics is (in part) to blame for that.

People think Karen and Claire were bad in Daredevil? What did they do to earn the ire of fans?

 

[Poodlestrike]

On Gaf at least, people seem to have turned a corner and opened up to her. I think it comes down to three factors. 1) Her screen time is reduced. 2) She's generally trying to help Team Arrow now. 3) Oliver has been such an over the top asshole to her and everyone else that she no longer comes out looking like the bad guy when she tells him off.

Of course, that's just Gaf. Go elsewhere - Twitter namely, Youtube as well - and there are still a significant number of people who just hate her for whatever reason. And the longer this season goes on, the harder time I have understanding them.



Possibly, but I have trouble going with this considering these women are based on some of the better written and treated female characters in comics. Hell, Laurel is the freaking Black Canary! How do you mess up one of DC's premiere women that badly for two seasons?

Haven't finished DD, but if they ruin Karen and Claire...man listen.

Claire isn't "ruined" so much as she just straight up stops showing up. And Karen is...

Yeah, she kind of gets ruined.

 

[More_Badass]

Claire isn't "ruined" so much as she just straight up stops showing up. And Karen is...

Yeah, she kind of gets ruined.

Not to derail, but why? Becaue of what happened to a certain character?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Why? Becaue of what happened to a certain character?

Pretty much. Setting aside that (late season spoiler)

Spoiler

killing Ben

was just a straight-up writing mistake, Karen's role in it does enormous damage to her character. If it was just (same)

Spoiler

her and Ben's investigation ultimately leading them to Fisk's mother,

that'd be one thing, but the blatant manipulation and willful ignoring of basically everything everybody told her really spoiled her for me.