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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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I blame all of this on the writers robbing Eobard Wells his trip home. When they decided to screw him over by erasing him from existence via the destruction of his ancestor then they opened up their minds to this time remnant bullshittery because they knew Reverse Flash was going to return at some point anyway.
So now, you have characters killing themselves without any consequence. What a load of shit.
So now, you have characters killing themselves without any consequence. What a load of shit.
brotkasten
Member
I think what's the worst for me is that even if you look at this season without comparing it to the (imo overall pretty excellent) first one, it's just not that good on its own. Even without comparing Zoom to Eobard, he's not a great villain and there are some other glaring issues, especially post-reveal.
e: To be clear, I'm not saying the season has been awful, terrible or otherwise really shit, but it feels a little lackluster.
Patty is a great character and I loved what we've seen from her, but I'm glad she's gone. I don't like the (upcoming) forced romance between Barry and Iris, but it would be great if they could make it work for once. At least over an entire season.
e: To be clear, I'm not saying the season has been awful, terrible or otherwise really shit, but it feels a little lackluster.
Patty is a great character and I loved what we've seen from her, but I'm glad she's gone. I don't like the (upcoming) forced romance between Barry and Iris, but it would be great if they could make it work for once. At least over an entire season.
I need to punch harder so I need to run faster! Problem solved. Hire me Flash writers!
He made a damn fine impression with the Tony Todd voice, the monster like nature. As a pure speedforce monster, he could have been amazing, but that would probably not be suited for a season 2 villain.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Its probably going to be Grodd. As far as I know they haven't set up Mirror Master, Captain Cold and Heat Wave are in use in LoT, Captain Boomerang is off limits, Weather Wizard is dead, Hamill probably can't be a series regular to have the Trickster be the main baddy.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Yeah, and its a damn shame. Honestly, I just never got invested in Jay's character. He was just... there. Sometimes he wasn't there and the other characters never mentioned it. So when you reveal he's Zoom I'm just like... okay. It didn't feel as earth-shattering as "oh crap Barry's guiding hand is actually his worst enemy."
I would have much preferred that when they get to E2 they find out E2 Barry Allen is dead at the hands of Zoom, then Zoom kills E2 Joe. Then on E1 Zoom kills Patty and its revealed that Zoom is E2 Barry making Barry a better hero. Hunter even alludes to this when he says "You're not so different you and I, you could have been me." Would have been much more impactful if they had gone that route.
They still have the Spartacus Weather Wizard.
brotkasten
Member
*while forgetting every other skill I've learned!
And yes, the first impression of Zoom was absolutely great. But I think they writers failed a little to make him a proper character, even before the reveal. Eobard had a history with Barry and something that felt like a real connection, him being Wells at that time was just icing on top of it, imo. He wasn't just a "terror monster" that would pop-up whenever he felt like it.
I dunno. I really like Zoom, personally.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQIMWYMuHyk
Incredible.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3Wmyy8pPw
Incredible.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyEntfKz74
Incredible.
He just deserved better writing. The writing in this season has been very poor at times.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQIMWYMuHyk
Incredible.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3Wmyy8pPw
Incredible.
This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyEntfKz74
Incredible.
He just deserved better writing. The writing in this season has been very poor at times.
Permanently A
Junior Member
A terror monster can work too, they just needed to make the shift from Jay to Hunter much more dramatic and actually feel like a climax. The way they did it, the audience finding out one week and the heroes finding out three weeks later, just robbed the reveal of any urgency or suspense it could have been given.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I'm still waiting for Eddie to come back as Cobalt Blue.
Trapped between dimensions for what felt like an eternity he'd have been driven insane and would have become fueled by the interdimensional energies.
Or something.
Trapped between dimensions for what felt like an eternity he'd have been driven insane and would have become fueled by the interdimensional energies.
Or something.
Kreisberg said Grodd is the idea for S3, the first two seasons were to set him like Ra's. It depends on visual effects budget from here.
I suspect more Rogues were intended for this year, but when Cold and Heat Wave shipped off to Legends that was put on the back burner. Mirror Master, Abra Kadabra and The Top are pretty glaring omissions when we're getting a few random filler D listers.
I suspect more Rogues were intended for this year, but when Cold and Heat Wave shipped off to Legends that was put on the back burner. Mirror Master, Abra Kadabra and The Top are pretty glaring omissions when we're getting a few random filler D listers.
They were never going to match the Reverse Flash in personal connection, so the entire terror monster would be better. Keep the serial killer background maybe, but keep Jay Garrick separate. Have Jay's big secret be the admission that Zoom is his twin, but he is a completely disfigured Teddy and always! the Tony Todd voice underneath the mask. Jay turns on Velocity to stop his brother, but it goes wrong. He ends up on Earth-1 and still thinks he need to stop it. Wells-Jay can blame each other for creating Zoom more.
The guy who went against a gigantic singularity that was sucking up the earth easily submitted against someone slower than him.
Larry is the worst main character.
brotkasten
Member
I agree with both of you. They should've created a better character with Jay, separated from Zoom. Something that really makes you curious about him and actually care about whatever he's doing. I've said it in the past, but his "betrayal" didn't sting at all, because he was barely there.
To me, it seems like they could've done a better job, if they hadn't introduced Wally so soon. Cutting his storyline a little would've given them more time to build up Jay. It would be either that, or cutting Patty completely, because that went nowhere fast (without a satisfying conclusion on top of it).
tkscz
Member
I actually agree with holding off Wally. It feels like his parts tend to be shoehorned in and a lot more focus is given to him when more important things are happening. I feel Jessie should've been built up more instead. From the last episode she was in, it's obvious
she'll become a speedster like her comicbook counter part
The Silver
Member
Zoom was great as an inhuman speed force monster beating the shit out of Barry like he stole something. Once he took off the mask he became a goofy idiot who releases hostages before he gets what he wants and makes orgasm faces.
Orgasm face was one of the few good moments of the episode tbh.
Another was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmAlqoM09QE
So good.
The thing I'm still not sure about is, did Jay/Hunter have a double agenda from the start, or was the first meeting with Jay (episode 2) the real Jay and in the course of the season he got replaced by Hunter? Because I'm still thinking the real Jay is the man behind the iron mask. It's definitely a white guy, so that writes off it being Wally.
And now they're trying to make us believe Iris would fall for this beta.
Dude went back in time to obtain the speed force only to get jobbed again--this time by a speedster slower than him.
I'm just at a loss of words, why does this keep happening? What arc is he going to have to go through this time? The not being a loser dumb fuck arc? This is sad lol.
Real Jay was locked up for a long time, before even Jessie was abducted by Zoom, so the Jay we saw at Star Labs was Hunter Zolomon from the past until he was killed by Zoom.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I think that Zoom has always been the Jay that we have seen. They didn't specifically say that, but it was implied from his statement about pretending to be a hero so that he can rip hope away.
Barry is going to go back in time and put Earth 2 Hunter Zolomon on the right path. He'll stop Hunter's dad from killing his mom or something. OR Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon is going to take up the mantle of Jay Garrick on Earth 2. As far as I understand, Earth 1 Hunter isn't in on any of Zoom's plan. And he isn't a speed mirage or a past version of Jay because then Jay wouldn't have needed to tell Caitlin his real name.
They said it was him from the start. He approached them for the reason to cheat them.
Remember him going to sleep after the attack on Geodude? That might have been the switch.
Speedforce
Permanently A
Junior Member
I don't think Jay was a time remnant all along, otherwise like you said, Hunter wouldn't care for Caitlyn. No, the time remnant was only introduced for the false death. Everything up till then was one person, Hunter.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Well...you see...
*runs away at Mach 3*
No, but I bet the next episode is going to go all over this. He probably kidnapped Caitlin so he can whine to her, she'll cry and say she cared about the man she thought he was blah blah blah.
At least that might go right, according to TVLine.
If you suspect that kidnapped Caitlin will angle to be Beauty to Zooms Beast and chip away at his defenses while in captivity
youd be wrong. No, that doesnt happen, which is actually kind of refreshing, Teddy Sears shares. That said, We eventually pierce the armor and see why hes taken her, though his exact agenda for his ex wont be immediately clear. Caitlin, though, would be wise to worry. After all, her captor is off, hes broken, he is not a linear, level-headed guy, Sears observes, and he eventually makes a decision which gets us to where we go next.
tkscz
Member
Actually it's a show that was made with the original intention to not play the long con, and do everything as big and fast as possible. Obviously changed a bit since the show's success and guaranteed pickups but the idea was never to hold cards close to the chest for too long.
And as far we the viewers know, Jay doesn't exist. He was just a shitty Zoom alter ego.
Permanently A
Junior Member
"YOUR SPEED FOR WALLY" is just dripping in double meaning. However, the biggest fear I have is that... Wally just doesn't seem charismatic enough to carry the show on his own right now. If he did end up getting the speed, I would hope it be in a capacity where he isn't suddenly thrust into the limelight like an awkward Barry replacement.
They won't drop Grant Gustin.
neurosisxeno
Member
This last episode was the worst episode of the entire show. It made literally no sense and was probably the most poorly written pile of crap in the entire Arrowverse. My friend and I were talking about it the other day, and realized something--I think they are trying to make Barry Allen the shittiest super hero around. He sucks at using his powers, he's terrible at actually fighting, and when he puts the suit on his IQ drops 75 points. It's madness watching him deal with villains--he's the god damn Flash!>#!?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Greg Berlanti
‏@GBerlanti
For those inquiring, we love Jay Garrick and would never make him a baddie. No reinvention. Keep watchinglove that you're asking q's.
It is odd that he has to explain that at all. Then again... He is one of the guys behind Arrow.
At least not until the Justice League movie comes out...
Pretty much. We didn't fully figure out Wellobard's plan until the last few episodes.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Because Zoom is serial killer and would kill everyone?
He kind of had to after Mark Waid and general internet fury.
But they can clearly keep track of Zoom while on Earth 1, and Barry is now faster than him. Couldn't Barry just stop Zoom from killing people by simply being a super hero?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Mark Waid is someone that bugs me. The guy has a big problem managing his emotions to the point where he consistently comes across as unprofessional.
Didn't Wells say he might be faster than Zoom? That doesn't seem like he's massively faster (if at all), so I find it highly unlikely he'll be able to stop Zoom going on an unpredictable rampage.
And how are they tracking Zoom? I thought they were tracking Barry and Zoom followed.
Geoff Johns should like Barry Allen enough.
I mean, he's clearly going to do that anyway, and now the only person that had a chance at stopping him is powerless.
GuessMyUserName
Member
I'm just now remembering Jay taught Barry how to use Lightning
... Are we gonna have the Big Bad of every season teaching Barry a new key move? First with Reverse Flash teaching Barry about phasing, now Zoom teaching him Lightning, heh. I don't mind it being a thing! Feelin' like Mega Man.
... Are we gonna have the Big Bad of every season teaching Barry a new key move? First with Reverse Flash teaching Barry about phasing, now Zoom teaching him Lightning, heh. I don't mind it being a thing! Feelin' like Mega Man.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
You'd probably have a lower body count if you didn't piss off a super powered psychopath.
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