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[Corpekata]

A fully CGI enemy isn't interesting in general over a long term unless you have absolutely amazing effects and a huge budget, and probably Andy Serkis. Grodd works as a big bad in comic form because he's not constrained by those things. On a show, it'll be a constant barrier to write around, with characters rarely interacting face to face, and in those scenes being fairly restricted.

Grodd works on paper, but is not practical and would introduce too many obstacles. At most I see him getting a mini-arc.

And besides, how many serialized shows have introduced a villain and defeated it multiple times and then gone on to make them the big bad, and also be good? Legends of Tomorrow is already struggling with this in Vandal Savage.

 

[Joni]

They can't pull that off for too long or with someone too important or people will get pissed. Aka Bane.

Just add a shadowy scene at the start of the seasons, then we can call people that didn't get it idiots.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

Grodd is god-tier. If the budget is there to have to him appear consistently and if the writers can do justice by his odd mixture of gentleman villain and animalistic urges.

It's a tough balance but if the money is there and the writing can back it up he could be an amazing foil.

 

[carlsojo]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but what if Zoom's (new) plan is to turn Caitlin into Killer Frost?

You know, since he like totally murdered Earth 2 Killer Frost.

 

[Raxus]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but what if Zoom's (new) plan is to turn Caitlin into Killer Frost?

You know, since he like totally murdered Earth 2 Killer Frost.

Comic books. No body something something something.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but what if Zoom's (new) plan is to turn Caitlin into Killer Frost?

You know, since he like totally murdered Earth 2 Killer Frost.

The internet told me Zoom cannot be fixed/redeedemed.

 

[ZeroX03]

Grodd is god-tier. If the budget is there to have to him appear consistently and if the writers can do justice by his odd mixture of gentleman villain and animalistic urges.

It's a tough balance but if the money is there and the writing can back it up he could be an amazing foil.

Incorrect.

God is Grodd-tier.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

"A strong man doesn't need to travel to the future. He makes his own, Flash!"

Earth 4:

"I gave into my fear! I gave into my pain! I sold your life to save my own. I'm a loser. I'm not the hero you thought I was! I'm nothing!"

 

[oti]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but what if Zoom's (new) plan is to turn Caitlin into Killer Frost?

You know, since he like totally murdered Earth 2 Killer Frost.

How can you turn a human into a meta ice human?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

How can you turn a human into a meta ice human?

By throwing her in a refrigerator.

 

[Joni]

How can you turn a human into a meta ice human?

Maybe she has the basis, like Cisco already was affected by the explosion but just didn't know it.

 

[Volimar]

By throwing her in a refrigerator.

Icy what you did there.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I enjoy bastardizing MGS quotes. Need to do some TDK ones too.

"Yes, that's right. You see a burned mask face. You see me. This mask is who I am. My mark, my proof of inhumanity. I have no family, no compassion, I have no face, but I haven't lost my mask. So I told myself... The pain and effort that keep me alive will never know relief, never bear fruit, never be repaid. I know that, but I told myself to focus on some hope, a nonexistent hope to guide me through this burning world. A hope - call it a dream. A melancholic delusion. As the pressures within me stretch me to bursting, and I force myself not to cry out, though the words I thought were carved into me are gone, and all I knew is dead. I know how you feel. I've felt the speed force. So show me. That I'm not the only one. That you too can return to this earth, for revenge. Do you see me, Flash? Don't die yet."

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I hope Mirror Master is the Big Bad for Season 3. Would be a totally different vibe, which I think is important, though I really like Zoom as a villain. Completely and utterly unhinged, psychotic, and just plain violent. He's a good villain.

I hope they save Grodd for 4. And then Season 5...

The insane, resurrected Eddie as "ZOOM", a twisted specter spat out from beyond the reaches of this universe, from the space between spaces, dedicated to one goal: Making the Flash the greatest hero in the world, by any means necessary.

 

[ZeroX03]

Eddie making The Flash a better hero would've been way cooler than what we got. I miss Eddie. Eddie and Tommy were great disposable characters. You guys remember Whitney in Smallville? Yeah.

I hope they lay off the alternate universes in the next season. They went a little overboard between Earth-2, Earth-3 and time travel. Focusing up a little could help. Mirror Master as a big bad would be mirror worlds and all that craziness. Essentially infinite earths.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Eddie making The Flash a better hero would've been way cooler than what we got. I miss Eddie. Eddie and Tommy were great disposable characters. You guys remember Whitney in Smallville? Yeah.

I hope they lay off the alternate universes in the next season. They went a little overboard between Earth-2, Earth-3 and time travel. Focusing up a little could help. Mirror Master as a big bad would be mirror worlds and all that craziness. Essentially infinite earths.

I do like Zoom, and I think Teddy Sears plays him really well when he's fully unhinged. But they have to artificially make Barry and co stupider for his plans to work, which is frustrating. They might have been better off doing two split arcs instead of one giant one cause they have to stretch shit out.

I do hope Eddie eventually comes back as a twisted broken mirror of The Flash. Completely different kind of villain, one that wants to help the hero become the best, but his methods are utterly horrible. It would eventually lead into the red skies crisis...

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Honestly, this is what I think happened:

Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon are the same person. He has split personality disorder. Hunter locked away the good Jay personality inside himself, but some weird speed force shit willed Jay Garrick into the world, and so Hunter locked him up. They are the same person, but two halves of one twisted person. One a desperate lunatic, the other an altruistic and noble hero.

 

[ZeroX03]

Honestly, this is what I think happened:

Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon are the same person. He has split personality disorder. Hunter locked away the good Jay personality inside himself, but some weird speed force shit willed Jay Garrick into the world, and so Hunter locked him up. They are the same person, but two halves of one twisted person. One a desperate lunatic, the other an altruistic and noble hero.

"YOU CAN'T LOCK UP THE DARKNESS" did make him seem possessed or something. I wouldn't rule out split personalities or bodies. Would explain why seemingly Teddy Sears is in the mask.

 

[Joni]

I enjoy bastardizing MGS quotes. Need to do some TDK ones too.

The Dark Knight Rises seems more appropriate.

Oh, you think speed is your ally. But you merely adopted the speedforce; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see normal speed until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BORING!

 

[BBboy20]

great disposable characters.

I would never thought I would see two words strung together like that.

 

[ZeroX03]

I would never thought I would see two words strung together like that.

Eddie and Tommy were characters designed to die. You've got to like them and care that they're dead, and understand the pain of his loss from the leads' perspective. But they can't steal focus or become a breakout character, but on the other end they can't be forgettable. It's a tight rope walk. Great and disposable.

 

[kurahador]

"YOU CAN'T LOCK UP THE DARKNESS" did make him seem possessed or something. I wouldn't rule out split personalities or bodies. Would explain why seemingly Teddy Sears is in the mask.

The Trajectory episode did hinted the double personality thing.

 

[Joni]

Let's say disposable characters can either be Tommy, or they can be Kelly. Tommy is a joke for the way he died, but at least he lived and we know why everyone cared. Kelly on the other hand is a joke for the fact that nobody cared. She wasn't there before and now she is dead but Kara will never forget her!

 

[KonradLaw]

The next Zoom will be Tommy! Driven to insanity by jeleausy of Oliver's friendship with Barry. And when he won't be busy tormenting Barry he will drop to Starling and secretly use his speed to correct Oliver's arrows that would miss

 

[Freshmaker]

I'm sure the identity of the man is going to be some big reveal. Probably an episode cliff hanger.

It's the real Jay Garrick. That's what the tap code was saying at least.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

Dammit, I keep writing things that I keep finding answers to lol.

If they give Hunter a split personality that his good side can be saved and preserved to be Jay Garrick, I'm going to flip out. Luckily, the Man in The Iron Mask is the real Jay Garrick.

 

[ZeroX03]

There's some photos of the finale floating around, but there's nothing really to spoil in it.

Spoiler

Barry and Zoom fight who saw that coming!!!!!!!!

No megatons like last year's Flash, Arrow & Firestorm vs the Reverse Flash.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The Flashes (real Jay, Barry) VS Zoom for the finale.

Maybe they'll replicate the experiment and create multiple speedsters (Wally, Jesse) but I'd prefer if they didn't.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

The Flashes (real Jay, Barry) VS Zoom for the finale.

Maybe they'll replicate the experiment and create multiple speedsters (Wally, Jesse) but I'd prefer if they didn't.

They will either do that or have Jay deal with the rogues and Barry deal with Zoom. That's if the fake is to be believed that Zoom gathers a bunch of rogues and invades Earth-1.

 

[Error]

Show needs to let Wally get into that speedforce thing already.

 

[Joni]

They have claimed that Mask

Spoiler

will be only revealed in the finale, so I'm thinking he doesn't get a huge role

if TVLine was correct on that.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

They have claimed that Mask

Spoiler

will be only revealed in the finale, so I'm thinking he doesn't get a huge role

if TVLine was correct on that.

I don't like that.

Please don't be true.

 

[Octavianus]

Finally got around to watching the latest episode.. goddamn they are dumb. What motivation did they have to give Zoom what he wanted after he had already given them Wally? Jesus fuck.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Eddie making The Flash a better hero would've been way cooler than what we got. I miss Eddie. Eddie and Tommy were great disposable characters. You guys remember Whitney in Smallville? Yeah.

The next Zoom will be Tommy! Driven to insanity by jeleausy of Oliver's friendship with Barry. And when he won't be busy tormenting Barry he will drop to Starling and secretly use his speed to correct Oliver's arrows that would miss

I know over in the Arrow thread there's been a lot of Red Hood begging for Tommy, but his Earth 2 double should be Owl Man. That's why Malcolm cares more for Thea than he ever did for Tommy- because he knows that he isn't his real father. He's the son of Thomas Wayne and Rebecca Merlyn.

 

[Asbel]

He's slowed than his comic book counterpart because of this though.

Besides, good story telling doesn't derive from how powerful a superhero is.

It doesn't but it takes consistently great writing which is a lot to ask for a whole season, season after season. It is easier to write a good story for Batman than Superman afterall.

 

[Lockman_321]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the helmet hunter gets when he's a child doesn't have wings on it. So are we assuming that the helmet is the same one or could it be that the helmet in star labs is the real jay Garrick's helmet not the same one hunter had since he was a kid and just stuck wings on it? Maybe showing his father giving him that helmet is a complete misdirection by the writers? Yes Cisco vibed it, but we could assume that is because after he captured there real jay he wore his helmet and paraded as him for a bit.

 

[Just_myles]

I'm kind of annoyed that DC shows are not adhering to the standard time travel tropes like time paradoxes and such. I kind of expected it but, I figure they would use the speed force as the plot device for things like making clones of yourself, from your past that you are able to kill. Really takes me out of it.

The same reason why I can't enjoy legends of tomorrow. I really need the rules to be clearly established, like every other sci-fi. I'm not asking for a dissertation just a "cause speed force" or cause "insert term that I never heard" or "Heisenberg compensator"... something.

 

[ZeroX03]

I'm kind of annoyed that DC shows are not adhering to the standard time travel tropes like time paradoxes and such. I kind of expected it but, I figure they would use the speed force as the plot device for things like making clones of yourself, from your past that you are able to kill. Really takes me out of it.

The same reason why I can't enjoy legends of tomorrow. I really need the rules to be clearly established, like every other sci-fi. I'm not asking for a dissertation just a "cause speed force" or cause "insert term that I never heard" or "Heisenberg compensator"... something.

They've made it clear that's not going to happen. They care about character not logistics.

Except Speed Force, that happens plenty. Anything time travel related in Flash is speed force. That's how speedsters don't get paradoxed out of existence.

 

[KonradLaw]

They've made it clear that's not going to happen. They care about character not logistics.

Except Speed Force, that happens plenty. Anything time travel related in Flash is speed force. That's how speedsters don't get paradoxed out of existence.

Meh. It's just lazy. There's nothing that could stop them from having all the character they want as well as doing sensible time travel.
In fact, it has the opposite effect. Because the lack of rules throws the viewer away from the experience. Instead of taking it in, he's has to leave immersion state to think "huh..what?!"

 

[iosefe]

Just downloaded the CW Seed app on AppleTV and the 90s Flash series is free to watch on it. Hell yeah.

it is so wonderfully 90's. very burton inspired though

 

[ZeroX03]

Meh. It's just lazy. There's nothing that could stop them from having all the character they want as well as doing sensible time travel.
In fact, it has the opposite effect. Because the lack of rules throws the viewer away from the experience. Instead of taking it in, he's has to leave immersion state to think "huh..what?!"

There's literally no such thing.

People want rules or logic to time travel but it's impossible to have full proof rules. They could have some more consistency but that's about it. You can't parse logic out of something that isn't possible.

 

[Joni]

Meh. It's just lazy. There's nothing that could stop them from having all the character they want as well as doing sensible time travel.
In fact, it has the opposite effect. Because the lack of rules throws the viewer away from the experience. Instead of taking it in, he's has to leave immersion state to think "huh..what?!"

The same will happen if you define the rules. Just see how much discussion there was here about Eobard surviving and that was very clear.

 

[oti]

I'm not gonna lie, our discussion about cargo ships (I still can't believe this is a thing) was more entertaining than the latest episode.

 

[fallengorn]

I enjoy bastardizing MGS quotes. Need to do some TDK ones too.

You either die as Jay or live long enough to see yourself become Zoom.

 

[Joni]

I'm not gonna lie, our discussion about cargo ships (I still can't believe this is a thing) was more entertaining than the latest episode.

It is why Arrow has become the greater show. More shipping.

 

[cereal_killerxx]

So far, I'm digging this season. I hope next season divulges from these familiar beats though. It's time to shake things up and make them less predictable.

 

[Kyoufu]

So far, I'm digging this season. I hope next season divulges from these familiar beats though. It's time to shake things up and make them less predictable.

Grodd would be one way to shake things up, but I personally would prefer another speedster or alternate dimension/realm/world villain who preferably time travels and doesn't kill his past self.

I'm STILL trying to wrap my head around Hunter Zolomon agreeing to die. :s

 

[Joni]

At this point I'm thinking he just lied. Other Jay didn't know he would die.

 

[Permanently A]

SPOILERS FOR 219 comic preview

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/vgYdDXa.jpg

 

[carlsojo]

SPOILERS FOR 219 comic preview

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/vgYdDXa.jpg

Son of a bitch!