Support NeoGAF

[Goldrusher]

Didnt vettel win a race in a torro roso?

From pole.

Vettel's wins so far:

from P1: 12
from P2: 3
from P3: 1

 

[Ark]

Didnt vettel win a race in a torro roso?

That car was basically a rebranded Red Bull and it was raining. Nevertheless it was an incredible performance by Vettel.

And as Goldrusher said, it was from pole

 

[DrM]

380 posts from me and it is only half of this season

Something interesting from race, statement from Lewis:

I was quickest in the first sector, quickest in the last sector, but struggling in the middle sector, so it was really improving my line in a lot of different places, particularly turn three. At the apex of turn three I was sliding my tyres quite a lot but later on I was able to recover from that and avoid the sliding. At turn eight, which is the fast chicane, I wasn't able to take (it) flat out at the beginning of the race, while Mark was and he was catching me massively. With a couple of alterations and with all the switches that we have, all the toys we have, it was really fantastic for me to be able to make steps forward.

He probably observed Webber driving in second sector and with help from the garage managed to set something up (probably right brake balance).

 

[brotkasten]

Didnt vettel win a race in a torro roso?

Yes, he did in 2008.
At the 2008 Italian Grand Prix, Vettel became the youngest driver in history to win a Formula One Grand Prix

You got me to read Vettel's wikipedia article and there's really some hilarious stuff.

In the rain-hit Japanese Grand Prix at Fuji, Vettel worked his way up to third, behind Lewis Hamilton and Red Bull Racing's Mark Webber, and seemed to be on course for not only his but also Toro Rosso's maiden podium finish. However, Vettel crashed into Webber under safety car conditions taking them both out of the race and prompting Webber to say to ITV reporter Louise Goodman "It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." Webber also specifically criticized Lewis Hamilton's erratic behaviour in contributing to the accident, describing his antics behind the safety car as 'shit'. Vettel was initially punished with a ten-place grid penalty for the following race, but this was lifted after a spectator video on YouTube showed the incident may have been caused by Hamilton's behaviour behind the safety car.

 

[PdotMichael]

From pole.

Vettel's wins so far:

from P1: 12
from P2: 3
from P3: 1

When I was young an victory with an perfect qualifying and race was something fantastic!

Good old times...

 

[SunhiLegend]

I remember watching that race and hearing Webbers comments afterwards. I wanted webber to get a podium and was feeling exactly the same way he was about rookie drivers.

 

[Psychotext]

When I was young an victory with an perfect qualifying and race was something fantastic!

Good old times...

Plus of course the RBR is pretty much designed to win from the front. You've only got to look at its performance when it's behind another car to see that (especially its straight line speed).

 

[PdotMichael]

The Webber-Vettel Accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vat6qXAMUlQ


What the hell?

 

[Nolan.]

What impresses me about today's current crop of drivers is that I don't think there's anyone that drives dirty, or even reckless. Schumacher of course was that guy before, and it always pisses me off that people defended it ("THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS!!!"....shut the fuck up), but even now Schumacher doesn't sink to that level anymore (of course he doesn't have that much to gain anymore), though he can still pull off an audaciously aggressive pass when the circumstances are right. I think Raikkonen took Sutil out twice in his last year, but that was due to carelessness (and probably him not giving a fuck anymore) then anything else, the rest of the time he was clean as a whistle.

Hamilton, as aggressive as he is at time, is not someone I've ever regarded as dirty. Reckless at times perhaps, but I think that comes with being the biggest risk taker on the grid ATM. You think about all the times he and Alonso have gone wheel to wheel since their McLaren fall out, and as close as those two have gotten to each other, they've never taken each other out. That's a credit to both drivers. To be honest I've never sensed any lingering animosity between 'em myself, but I'm sure they still wanna beat each other more than anyone else on the grid.

Just look at how many clean starts we've had this year, even on the tracks where car pile ups on the first corner was an automatic in years past. It's truly amazing to see a field of 22 drivers being able to race so close to each other, in cars that are top to bottom closer then they were say ten or twenty years ago, yet give each other enough room to stay on the road. I think that's been my biggest joy in watching F1 the last few years.

I suppose some would argue that today's F1 cars are easier to drive then they've ever been, so that's the reason for the reduced on track collisions. I'm not sure I necessarily believe that, what they have to do with the wheel controls is simply looney to me, but I guess I can't rule it out. Still, I don't see that as a bad thing if it keeps cars on the road and drivers out of the emergency ward.

Lewis can be so risky sometimes it's ridiculous, during this race he pulled a similar move on Webber like he was attempting to with Button in Canada. I was watching and seeing how close he was getting to the wall thinking 'this guy is just insane', sure it wasn't wet this time but still. Anyway good race overall I really hope Mclaren and Ferrari really become more consistent with this kind of performance from them. Oh and also that Massa's side of the garage stop messing up, that's almost a staple in the script every race. I also hope that this Webber resurgence (especially with respects to his team-mate) sticks, which I have a strong feeling it will for the rest of the season. As for Vettel's race craft I get the feeling he calculates too much and doesn't account for instinct. So many times he will come out of a race when he has won and will tell you about the inherent qualities of a track, walk through the race in chronological order almost in robotic fashion. Though when he is fighting his way through the field and comes out of such races he seems to just go 'I didn't feel comfortable with the car'. Though maybe he is apprehensive to drive with some instincts as in the past it never seemed to work out too well, who knows. However Nico and Jenson kind of drive similiarly to him I feel and they seem to manage a good balance (Ok not so much recently) so maybe there is room for him to sharpen it up.

380 posts from me and it is only half of this season

Something interesting from race, statement from Lewis:

He probably observed Webber driving in second sector and with help from the garage managed to set something up (probably right brake balance).

He said something to Mark after the race too but I couldn't pick it up, Mark seemed to half smile at it and didn't say anything, he said something to Alonso also which seemed interesting but didn't hear that either.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

The Webber-Vettel Accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vat6qXAMUlQ


What the hell?

And here's the subsequent interview where he swears on live TV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvL20cuGY2I

And just because it's hilariously gross here's a video of Mark vomiting in his helmet during that same GP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGezKXz6Vyk&feature=related

That's commitment.

 

[Ark]

Lewis can be so risky sometimes it's ridiculous, during this race he pulled a similar move on Webber like he was attempting to with Button in Canada. I was watching and seeing how close he was getting to the wall thinking 'this guy is just insane', sure it wasn't wet this time but still.

That was great racing & driving, not recklessness.

Hamilton is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

EDIT:

Look at Vettel's face.

 

[Nolan.]

That was great racing & driving, not recklessness.

Hamilton is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I didn't say it was reckless just risky. As in it's enough to make a lot of drivers either alter their style or be nervous about similar maneuvers in future but he seems resilient. During that move I think Coulthard at the beginning how it was the wrong move but by the end was surprised that Lewis was seemingly already figuring out how to re-correct and regain the position, impressive.

 

[Ark]

I didn't say it was reckless just risky. As in it's enough to make a lot of drivers either alter their style or be nervous about similar maneuvers in future but he seems resilient. During that move I think Coulthard at the beginning how it was the wrong move but by the end was surprised that Lewis was seemingly already figuring out how to re-correct and regain the position, impressive.

Hamilton has the balls that most other drivers seem to lack. That's why when he produces races like he did yesterday, they're always excellently brilliant.

Same goes for Alonso, and Schumacher in his hay-day.

 

[PdotMichael]

Hamilton has the balls that most other drivers seem to lack. That's why when he produces races like he did yesterday, they're always excellently brilliant.

Same goes for Alonso, and Schumacher in his hay-day.

but in the same time he lost many important points because of his risky driving style

Every driving style has pros and cons. Or was Alain Prost an bad driver?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Didnt vettel win a race in a torro roso?

That was when TR was the RBR works team and they shared the same chassis and had the superior Ferrari engine. Now TR have a unique chassis so they are much worse, but back then they had almost identical cars running with different engines.

 

[Lucius86]

but in the same time he lost many important points because of his risky driving style

Every driving style has pros and cons.

Very true - but that's what makes motor racing fun, hey?

 

[Omiee]

3 days to go, fuck yeah!!

 

[Lucius86]

Look at Vettel's face.

I not seen that before. Damn.

Love you Mark, always <3

 

[DrM]

I not seen that before. Damn.

Love you Mark, always <3

That glass pound needs gif ASAP

 

[dalin80]

That car was basically a rebranded Red Bull and it was raining. Nevertheless it was an incredible performance by Vettel.

And as Goldrusher said, it was from pole

And he almost lost that to Hamilton who started down in ~15th

 

[Ark]

but in the same time he lost many important points because of his risky driving style

Every driving style has pros and cons. Or was Alain Prost an bad driver?

And once again, someone has to ruin the party.

Sometimes I just hate being an F1 fan.

And he almost lost that to Hamilton who started down in ~15th

He was lucky Hamilton got stuck in traffic.

 

[PdotMichael]

That was when TR was the RBR works team and they shared the same chassis and had the superior Ferrari engine. Now TR have a unique chassis so they are much worse, but back then they had almost identical cars running with different engines.

It wasn't like the Red Bull was 2008 something good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season#Results_and_standings

And he almost lost that to Hamilton who started down in ~15th

hmm?

1. Vettel
7. Hamilton ~30 seconds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Italian_Grand_Prix#Race

 

[brotkasten]

That glass pound needs gif ASAP

I didn't even notice it the first time I saw it. Wow.

 

[Omiee]

And he almost lost that to Hamilton who started down in ~15th

woow the hate is getting hilarious.

 

[brotkasten]

woow the hate is getting hilarious.

You don't have to defend Vettel every time someone writes something about him you don't like. He doesn't read GAF.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I don't really care that Vettel isn't a great overtaker. He's fast and when he starts on pole, which he does a lot, he wins.

Every driver has a weak spot.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

It wasn't like the Red Bull was 2008 something good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season#Results_and_standings



hmm?

1. Vettel
7. Hamilton ~30 seconds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Italian_Grand_Prix#Race

It wasn't rubbish and the rain definitely helped him qualify on pole, the two fastest drivers were locked out on Q3 because of team errors in Q2.

Also, Hamilton and Kimi were a second a lap faster for the whole second half of the race, they just got stuck in traffic.

 

[PdotMichael]

It wasn't rubbish and the rain definitely helped him qualify on pole, the two fastest drivers were locked out on Q3 because of team errors in Q2.

Also, Hamilton and Kimi were a second a lap faster for the whole second half of the race, they just got stuck in traffic.

wow...

1.
When I was young... an pole in rain was great and something you need lots of skill... but I am old now

2.
Thats racing...

But now I understand the hate for Schumacer in his time

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I don't really care that Vettel isn't a great overtaker. He's fast and when he starts on pole, which he does a lot, he wins.

Every driver has a weak spot.

That's more to do with the car. The RBR7 was much, much faster than the rest of the field so he didn't face much competition from Hamilton or Alonso for the whole first half of the season. Now that McLaren and Ferrari have caught up to Red Bull he hasn't won the last two races.

I won't say it's conclusive evidence, but if it happens again in Hungary where Lewis or Alonso qualify ahead of Seb and he can't win it, then a pattern will have begun to emerge.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

wow...

1.
When I was young... an pole in rain was great and something you need lots of skill... but I am old now

2.
Thats racing...

Sure, it did take a lot of skill, he still didn't face the top two drivers in that season because of a team error on the part of McLaren and Ferrari.

 

[Saiyar]

That's more to do with the car. The RBR7 was much, much faster than the rest of the field so he didn't face much competition from Hamilton or Alonso for the whole first half of the season. Now that McLaren and Ferrari have caught up to Red Bull he hasn't won the last two races.

I won't say it's conclusive evidence, but if it happens again in Hungary where Lewis or Alonso qualify ahead of Seb and he can't win it, then a pattern will have begun to emerge.

The RB7 isn't much faster than the rest of the field during the race. Even Mclaren admit that they had the faster car in Canada, Barcelona, Monaco and Germany.

The reason the RB7 is much better in qualifying is because of the unlimited DRS.

 

[PdotMichael]

That's more to do with the car. The RBR7 was much, much faster than the rest of the field so he didn't face much competition from Hamilton or Alonso for the whole first half of the season. Now that McLaren and Ferrari have caught up to Red Bull he hasn't won the last two races.

The last "two" races... wow

And only Alonso was in the last two races better than Vettel.

 

[anonnumber6]

The last "two" races... wow

And only Alonso was in the last two races better than Vettel.

Also worth remembering Vettel was leading the race in Silverstone until a mistake by his pit crew cost him victory.

 

[malyce]

The RB7 isn't much faster than the rest of the field during the race. Even Mclaren admit that they had the faster car in Canada, Barcelona, Monaco and Germany.

The reason the RB7 is much better in qualifying is because of the unlimited DRS.

No! It is because the RB7 has more mechanical grip than any other car/chasis in the field, so when the run whatever super engine mapping they use for qualy with just enough fuel, the fucking thing flies, under race trim and a full tank of fuel the advantage is not as great but its still there.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Regardless of the slight advantage with the car, where he started, how the other teams have performed, etc etc, it's still clear he's a world class driver and deserves to be considered one of the very best in the sport.

 

[Saiyar]

No! It is because the RB7 has more mechanical grip than any other car/chasis in the field, so when the run whatever super engine mapping they use for qualy with just enough fuel, the fucking thing flies, under race trim and a full tank of fuel the advantage is not as great but its still there.

Changing engine mappings between qualifying and race has been banned since Valencia.
The RB7's advantage comes from it's superior downforce. Not mechanical grip.

 

[operon]

Regardless of the slight advantage with the car, where he started, how the other teams have performed, etc etc, it's still clear he's a world class driver and deserves to be considered one of the very best in the sport.

When he wins a few more drivers championships then he can be considered one of the very best

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I obviously meant currently.

 

[Dilly]

It wasn't like the Red Bull was 2008 something good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season#Results_and_standings

Forgot how good Massa was that season.

Also, I think that Torro Rosso got the car Red Bull used the year before.

 

[Omiee]

To book 2 tickets for spa or not to book, 1400 euro is a lot of money.
hmm

 

[Ark]

Regardless of the slight advantage with the car, where he started, how the other teams have performed, etc etc, it's still clear he's a world class driver and deserves to be considered one of the very best in the sport.

He has a long way to go before he can be even placed in the same calibre as Alonso & Hamilton.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Vettel very highly. But he has a way to go. Of course we can't forget that Vettel was beaten by both Hamilton & Di Resta in similar or equal machinery

To book 2 tickets for spa or not to book, 1400 euro is a lot of money.
hmm

They need the money. If I remember rightly, Spa isn't making enough profit.

 

[Omiee]

I think im just going to book it.

 

[brotkasten]

I think im just going to book it.

Do it, but don't forget your GAF flag.

 

[Ark]

Do it, but don't forget your GAF flag.

Jesus shit.

If I ever go to a GP I'm making a giant 10ft high GAF flag to take with me.

 

[Deadman]

Highest viewing figures for German Grand Prix since 1996 on the BBC this weekend. Thank you. #bbcf1 jakehumphreyf1 3 hours ago

This is what gives me hope for them not ditching f1 like all the rumours say. Why give up whilst setting viewer records?

 

[ANDY_098]

Just had an urge to buy my tickets for Silverstone next year already, a little early though! xD

Also just seen Britcar and LMS at are both at Silverstone later this year and it reminded me of Le Mans, I have to go again next year!

 

[SunhiLegend]

 

[Ark]

This is what gives me hope for them not ditching f1 like all the rumours say. Why give up whilst setting viewer records?

The BBC doesn't need F1, F1 needs the BBC.

I'm not even sure they touched.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Such a brilliant race! Hamilton losing the lead and retaking it 20 seconds apart was one of the greatest moments ever!

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

I was contemplating on attending the Austin GP next year since I want to hear the high revving V8's in person before they switch to the less revving V6's :/

Thankfully, one of my cousins is moving to San Antonio this year due to a job relocation (sucks for her obviously), but that means Austin is less than an hour and half's drive from her city so I have the lodging aspect covered at least.

Cant wait!