The Gamecube was their worst-selling console up to that point, if that's what you're trying to say. I agree. However, I don't see why that is the only consideration here. Gamecube (22M) sold 9 million fewer than its predecessor the N64 (33M).It was not worse, the company literally crumbled into itself during the GC. They had to use panic measures to get the GC to sell. The N64 didn't need that because the US saved the system early.
The Wii had a ton more games. That's a fact. There's no accounting for taste but a lot of it was good stuff. Wii is littered with diamonds in the rough. Get with the times and investigate the library.Also I'm not wrong, the GC resulted in near none of the third-parties coming back for the Wii. The GC brought in some earlier and then people post 2003 started leaving in droves. By the wii they were gone and replaced by shovelware companies.
No, I think gaming has gotten so large that Nintendo is chasing a genuine market that is becoming more and more distinct from the one that Sony and Microsoft are chasing. And at the end of the day, a lot of people buy what they like and they aren't thinking about the company's history. Only nerds like us are thinking to themselves "look how far Nintendo has fallen".As for the"rough spots" the GC literally led to Nintendo no longer competing in the market and going off on their own targeting a different demographic. Nintendo used to compete in nthe market directly, since the GC they have not done so and have even said in late wii years that "they are not really competing with the competition".
You might be right, but if they put the entire Gamecube library on the Switch today, I'd probably end up buying over 50 games.
REmake, Resident Evil 4, Windwaker
I just out argued your entire essay in 5 words or less.
Is this your thing now Freedom Gate? Make threads about your opinions and state them as fact with as many words as possible?
Your thread title is absolutely an opinion. Given that the Gamecube sold 22 million compared to the Wii U which sold less than 14 million.Those sold move GameCubes in mass?
This is not a argument based on taste and opinions it's one based on the market and the industry. It hurt Nintendo the most.
It's an opinion that The Gamecube cause internal issues for Nintendo? It's an opinion that the games the GameCube launched with didn't resonate with the market at the time? It's an opinion that they halted production in 2003?
I see why there's a lot less industry and technical conversation on NeoGaf since the purge people only want to talk and debate subjective stuff now on the gaming side. Well some people.
The Gamecube was their worst-selling console up to that point, if that's what you're trying to say. I agree. However, I don't see why that is the only consideration here. Gamecube (22M) sold 9 million fewer than its predecessor the N64 (33M).
But get this: the N64 was a decline of 16 million compared to the SNES's 49 Million. Ooops! A sharper decline than from N64 to Gamecube.
GCN was merely the end of the N64's trajectory. Nintendo did an admirable job trying to make the Gamecube relevant.
The Wii had a ton more games. That's a fact. There's no accounting for taste but a lot of it was good stuff. Wii is littered with diamonds in the rough. Get with the times and investigate the library.
No, I think gaming has gotten so large that Nintendo is chasing a genuine market that is becoming more and more distinct from the one that Sony and Microsoft are chasing. And at the end of the day, a lot of people buy what they like and they aren't thinking about the company's history. Only nerds like us are thinking to themselves "look how far Nintendo has fallen".
REmake, Resident Evil 4, Windwaker
I just out argued your entire essay in 5 words or less.
Is this your thing now Freedom Gate? Make threads about your opinions and state them as fact with as many words as possible?
No, I think gaming has gotten so large that Nintendo is chasing a genuine market that is becoming more and more distinct from the one that Sony and Microsoft are chasing. And at the end of the day, a lot of people buy what they like and they aren't thinking about the company's history. Only nerds like us are thinking to themselves "look how far Nintendo has fallen".
You’re forgetting they had to ductape two together first"The GameCube Was Nintendo's Worse Home Console Failure."
And then they added a waggle controller to it and sold it back to masses to create their best home console success... The Nintendo way...
Your thread title is absolutely an opinion. Given that the Gamecube sold 22 million compared to the Wii U which sold less than 14 million.
So we're just stating facts?
GameCube sold over 21.8 million.
Wii U sold 13.5 million.
Virtual Boy 770K
Conclusion, GameCube was Nintendo's least successful console. I'm not following the facts...
“Hurrr but it has games I like” is such a BS copout response. We get it, your feelings are hurt because OP said something mean about a game console you liked.
OP was clearly making the point that GameCube was Nintendo’s worst console in that it involved many strategic mistakes, and suffered greatly from Nintendo’s arrogance and refusal to learn from past generations. Not that it had zero good games.
I don't really follow your argument. N64 damaged the brand too, or were you too young to remember? FF7 on PS1 was a big deal. N64's lack of arcade ports was big deal. The overall lack of games was a big deal.The Gamecube has to go through internal hell, drop the price and devalue the Nintendo brands after halted production to reach its numbers. The N64 did not have to do that. One is objectively worse for Nintendo as a company. One caused Nintendo to abandon competing. One caused Nintendo to lose even the most loyal third-party developers for its next console that came back after the N64.
Then provide numbers. I've taken the time to do so. Why can't you invest the same effort?Your statement on the Wii having more games does not refute my point about the third-parties the Gamecube lost that did not come back. Most of the third-parties on the GameCube were shovelware or lower tiered versions of similar games on the 360/PS3. The Wii having more games does not mean the GC didn't lose a lot of the bigger Third-parties it had as those mostly published or exclusively published on the 360/PS3. Not the Wii.
Yeah, they "weren't competing" which ended up being in Sony and Microsoft's favor because the Wii trounced them both. Nintendo is still competing for a portion of the market's videogame dollars. You have an archaic System Wars circa 2008 understanding of the videogame market.You also can't use the "gaming is big" excuse when they didn't know how big the market would be when the Wii launched and it launched chasing outside the competition and again the words "we are not competing" came out of NINTENDO's own mouth. It is not an opinion.
Your thread title is absolutely an opinion. Given that the Gamecube sold 22 million compared to the Wii U which sold less than 14 million.
'Worse failure'...and that's what makes a console good or bad, sales numbers.
I don't really follow your argument. N64 damaged the brand too, or were you too young to remember? FF7 on PS1 was a big deal. N64's lack of arcade ports was big deal. The overall lack of games was a big deal.
I don't know what you mean by "caused them to abandon competing". They are still competing against Sony and Microsoft for gaming dollars, are they not?
Then provide numbers. I've taken the time to do so. Why can't you invest the same effort?
How many third-parties did the Gamecube lose that did not come back, compared the the number lost on the N64 and the Wii. Back up your assertions.
Yeah, they "weren't competing" which ended up being in Sony and Microsoft's favor because the Wii trounced them both. Nintendo is still competing for a portion of the market's videogame dollars. You have an archaic System Wars circa 2008 understanding of the videogame market.
Yeah, I'm not following the metrics. If we're not going by sales numbers, in which its definitely NOT the worst, what are we going by?
Explain the GameCube failure post Halo then with then exclusives like RE4, a $99 price with some retailer going under, and a revived ad budget?
You're right. I don't. Do you have any articles or information to help me better understand this phenomenon?You really don't seem to understand the "INTERNAL PANIC" the GameCube caused at Nintendo. It was a much bigger issue than the N64.
Okay, but what does that mean? Nintendo still obviously competes in the videogame market. I don't speak for Nintendo. But just because Nintendo said "we aren't directly competing" does not make it true.As for competing, again you're arguing against what came out of Nintendo's own mouth as well as many other Japanese companies. But mostly Nintendo's own mouth.
I have no clue what this sentence means. Could you provide links?You are also the only person who sides against gaming media in japan and outside outlining the Wii's lack of quality third-party software and the lack of output by top devs. That can be found in seconds, are you saying they are lying?
Coming back to where? If you are talking about "the casualz" I'm not really following you. Many of those came back into gaming via their phones.Wii didn't trounce anything. It's own market abandoned the platform and didn't transfer to its successor. The actual gaming market was barely on the Wii and was mostly on the 360/PS3. That other market is not coming back.
Wii didn't trounce anything. It's own market abandoned the platform and didn't transfer to its successor. The actual gaming market was barely on the Wii and was mostly on the 360/PS3. That other market is not coming back.
You're right. I don't. Do you have any articles or information to help me better understand this phenomenon?
Okay, but what does that mean? Nintendo still obviously competes in the videogame market. I don't speak for Nintendo. But just because Nintendo said "we aren't directly competing" does not make it true.
I have no clue what this sentence means. Could you provide links?
Coming back to where? If you are talking about "the casualz" I'm not really following you. Many of those came back into gaming via their phones.
I am very interested in reading these objective statements and reports from the company. Could you point me in the right direction? Otherwise, I think you're full of hot air.I mean it's not even just Nintendo multiple outlets echoed the same. Heck some said the Wii didn't even count entirely.
Heck the gaming and casual markets were split up by the outlets AND the manufactures. The market reacted the same way. Now whether you FEEL the Wii was part of the same market as the PS3/360 the industry generally did not see it that way for better or worse and that's what this thread is about, the market and the industry.
When you look at how the Gamecube effected Nintendo, itself and outside of it, Industry wide, it did a lot more damage than the Wii or N64 did based on objective statements and reports from the company whether it was then current or ex-employees.
What is your standard for "worse home console failure" then? That is what is confusing to me and everyone else in the thread. You haven't really defined your terms for worst failure. You've just listed some bad points about the Gamecube. And when asked you show comparisons or data, you come up short.The market also did not care for the Gamecube until Nintendo has to do a lot of unconventional things to get it to sell. Something that have never done again including with consoles such as the Wii U where they took the loss and traded it for profit.
I'm not sure what part of any of this is confusing you. Many things changed because of the GC more than any other home Nintendo console.
I am very interested in reading these objective statements and reports from the company. Could you point me in the right direction? Otherwise, I think you're full of hot air.
What is your standard for "worse home console failure" then? That is what is confusing to me and everyone else in the thread. You haven't really defined your terms for worst failure. You've just listed some bad points about the Gamecube. And when asked you show comparisons or data, you come up short.
I think N64 was the biggest failure, alongside its twin little siblings the GBC and Virtual Boy. No Nintendo console/handheld generation has had fewer games than that generation. The number of games is a pretty important indicator of a system's health and popularity. Some of your own criteria was how "the Gamecube lost so many third party developers" (which you haven't yet provided any links for...) so the total number of games is a pretty decent indicator of developer support, too.
Virtual Boy is not a home console.
I am using the number of games, yes, to help determine whether or not the N64 was a worse console failure compared to the Gamecube. Isn't this opposite of "putting my personal feelings in this"?Virtual Boy is not a home console.
The fact you are only using games ignores all the other undeniable effects the GameCube had which you can find stories easily via your favorite search engine. it just seems like you're putting your personal feelings in this. Many stories about Ex-Nintendo employees you don't want to look up talking about what it was like under GameCube Nintendo.
Halting production or "fire sales" are the sign of whether or not a console is the worst home console failure? I don't agree.Things like halting production in 2003 because of bad sales that never happened with the N64. N64 didn't have to go on fire sales to sell.
I don't believe that money made or money lost is the sole reason for whether or not a system is a failure. Because if that was the case then Wii U would be the main contender.How is N64 the biggest failure when the GC effected the company the most, especially directly? Even you agreed they likely made less money on the GC than the N64. You're sending mixed signals.
I already told you that I don't really like the Gamecube or it's games. Did that fly over your head?I mean you just asked me to prove the market was split between casuals and gamer, you know damn well that happened. This thread isn't about yu liking the games on the GC it's about it's objective failures and performance.
Well, it wasn't a portable. So what is it?
I am using the number of games, yes, to help determine whether or not the N64 was a worse console failure compared to the Gamecube. Isn't this opposite of "putting my personal feelings in this"?
Thanks for the links to all those interviews... oh, sorry, I'm not going to do your homework for you. I acknowledge that Gamecube was a rough time for Nintendo, and the N64's ideology was largely to blame for that. N64 was still a bigger failure.
Halting production or "fire sales" are the sign of whether or not a console is the worst home console failure? I don't agree.
I don't believe that money made or money lost is the sole reason for whether or not a system is a failure. Because if that was the case then Wii U would be the main contender.
I already told you that I don't really like the Gamecube or it's games. Did that fly over your head?
I am using actual numbers. You aren't. Please put the big terms like "objective failures" and "performance" back up on the kitchen counter where you found them until you start backing up what you say with statistics and sales numbers.
I hear you, but at the same time, the GCN sold 22 million units versus the Wii U's 14 million, and the Wii U had the benefit of a decade worth of video game market expansion.
So you're saying the OP is lying about Nintendo halting production in 2003?
Please show me what in the OP isn't right.
Yes fire sales and halting production do impact how the console was a failure for Nintendo. Yes it, lack of profits and causing the company to have a meltdown is a measurement for it being a bigger issue for the company than the N64.
Also you even use the term "sole reason" ignoring all the reasons in the OP, I think you're lying this is just you defending the Gamecube on feelings because all the issue in the OP happened and you're flat out denying all these factors don't stack on each other and that's just being obtuse.
Yes all the things in the OP, together, more than one sole reason, makes the GC a bigger failure. Yes, fire sales and company panic do contribute to it being more of a failure. If the GC and the Xbox 1 switched places and the thread was exactly the same you would not even be here.
This problem was worse on the N64, as evidenced by the total number of Gamecube games compared to N64 games.The GameCube did not have the games that the Xbox and PS2 had which shook things up and the GameCube was falling fast behind.
Virtual Boy was never positioned as a successor to SNES nor Gameboy, it does r fit neatly into either category.Well, it wasn't a portable. So what is it?
As far as I'm concerned, it was Nintendo last great console. It was powerful yet affordable, looked really cool and had tons of great games both 1st party and 3rd party.