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[Brashnir]

Note: This thread is about the structure of games and what draws people to them. We are here to discuss the things that draw us to games and what we get out of them. It is not a place to denigrate others' preferences or levy accusations about their status as gamers. I will be using the phrases “game elements” and “non-game elements” in this post, but do not take them to mean that anything including non-game elements is not a game. It is simply an acknowledgment of where the root game ends and other – often important – aspects of games begin.

As a frame of discussion, I'm going to start by breaking down the game of golf and many of the ancillary reasons that people enjoy it. Why golf? It is one of the simplest and most universally-understood games around, and it also has a lot in common with single-player video games. In most games that have been around as long as golf, players are directly pitted against one another in a test of skill and/or physical prowess. In golf, however, the player plays alone against a set of (mostly) static obstacles, and competition with other players is a matter of comparing scores with one another. By examining golf and where the game within it begins and ends, it can offer insight into other more complicated games, and provide a frame of reference for any of the games we play.

Golf also has something else in common with video games: People play and enjoy golf for many different reasons, not strictly limited to the parameters of the game itself. This mirrors the different types of gamers in the world, and the things that draw us to the games we enjoy.

So what are the root game elements of golf? As with any game, golf is a set of tools and obstacles presented to a player, with a goal.

The Tools of Golf are simple. A player has a set of clubs of varying size, weight, and angle of impact, which they use to strike a ball.

The Obstacles of Golf are also simple and mostly static.

• Distance between the tee and the hole.
• Varying lengths of grass, cut in such a way as to present easier or harder landing spots for the ball to be struck from.
• Trees, rocks, shrubs, water, flowers and sometimes buildings.
• Weather. This is the only non-static variable, but even so, most courses are designed to take prevailing winds into account.

The Goal of Golf is the simplest of all. Put the ball in all 18 holes in as few shots as possible.

There are no direct rewards. No achievements, no unlocks, nothing being dangled in front of the player to compel them to put in a little more time. The only rewards are internal to the person playing. The satisfaction of improvement, the conquering of personal goals, and the fun had playing the game.

There is no fail state or game over screen, but there are penalties. Hit your shot perfectly, and it goes into the hole. Hit your shot well, and you set yourself up for an easy next shot. Hit your shot poorly, and you give yourself a more difficult next shot, which runs the risk of costing you more strokes. Each stroke that doesn't result with the ball going in the hole is a penalty. Golf is a very punitive game, but the more skillful a player you are, the better you manage these penalties.

A perfect game of golf would thus be to complete all 18 holes in 18 shots. Or if you prefer, since many holes are too long to reach the hole in a single shot, a perfect game would be a game where you hole out every shot from the first point where you're close enough to physically do so, which is 36 shots on a standard par-72 course. (Not accounting for the fact that you can reach some par 5 holes in 2, but let's not get pedantic here.) The challenge of the game is that this is virtually impossible, as evidenced by the fact that the greatest round of professional golf ever recorded on a par-72 course was 59 (done 6 different times in 100+ years), 23 shots worse than the theoretical perfect round.

Golf is, at its core, perhaps the simplest (just put the ball in the hole, dummy) and most difficult (nobody has ever come anywhere close to a perfect round) game there is.

So why do people like it? That's a much more complicated question. Some people like it for the raw test of the game itself. Testing oneself against the course designer's cleverness and course elements, and most of all, the limitations of your own body can be a very gratifying (if frustrating) challenge to take on. But only a very small percentage of golfers play the game for this reason alone. Most play, at least to a minor degree, due to a variety of non-game elements.

• Some play for a chance to socialize, whether it be with friends and family or business acquaintances.
• Some play to spend time in the outdoors.
• Some play as an outlet for competitive energy.
• Some play to admire the beauty of the landscaping of the course and areas around it.
• Some play to admire and appreciate the course's design as a game obstacle.
• Some play as a form of escapism.
• Some play for a sense of self-empowerment.

Some or all these factors go into why each golfer likes to golf. Very few of them can be pigeonholed into a single one of these elements, whether they be elements of the core game or non-game elements such as socializing, being outdoors, or the beauty of the course and/or country club.


And now, to bring this back on topic, I think you'll start to see that a lot of these things mirror the types of things that draw people to video games.

Some people play video games for the pure art of defeating or improving at the game.
Some people play video games to spend time socializing.
Some people play video games as an outlet for competitive energy.
Some people play video games to admire the beauty of a game's graphics or aesthetic.
Some people play video games to admire, explore and appreciate the pure game design.
Some people play video games as a form of escapism.
Some people play video games for a sense of self-empowerment.
Some people play video games to be told a story.
Some people play video games to be an active participant in a story they're being told.
Some people play video games to explore another world.
Some people play video games to be immersed in an experience.
Some people play video games to mindlessly kill time.

...and so on.

None of us can be pigeonholed into a single one of these factors. We're all points in a big Venn diagram with overlapping spheres inside and on top of other spheres, and we may take a little of one thing, and a lot of another to arrive at our own personal preferences.

So GAF, take a moment to think about your favorite games and consider their various game and non-game elements as I've done with golf here. Think about the core tool and obstacle elements of those games, and about the other aspects of them that enhance or detract from that core experience and answer this: What do you get out of gaming? What brings you back to games? Why are you a gamer?

 

[maxcriden]

Interesting metaphor. I'm not a golf fan but I can appreciate a good sports metaphor and I like this. Very well conceived OP, kudos.

What do you get out of gaming?

Pure fun. Quality time with my family. Connection with my peers. Escape from daily migraines. Exploration of new worlds and experiences.

What brings you back to games?

The desire to have as pure fun as possible and to have the continued and new experiences as mentioned above.

Why are you a gamer?

Videogames speak to me on some deep, innate level and help me to express to myself my own ideas of jouissance and plaisir, and the realization of those concepts in their own lucid diegeses.

 

[mclem]

Or if you prefer, since many holes are too long to reach the hole in a single shot, a perfect game would be a game where you hole out every shot from the first point where you're close enough to physically do so, which is 36 shots on a standard 72-hole course.

Took me a few moments... After spending a little while trying to figure out if the ball splits in two as it flies and lands in the *next* hole as well... I assume you mean '72-par' there?

 

[Brashnir]

Took me a few moments... I assume you mean '72-par' there?

Oops, yes. Thanks, I'll fix that.

 

[mclem]

And now to address the main theme of the OP:

I don't play golf; I've sort-of been interested in doing so, but I've never really had the opportunity. I am, however, a huge fan of mini golf, and thinking about it, I think the parts of it that appeal to me are indeed similar to the aspects of games that interest me; clever design. That's more immediately obvious in mini golf than real golf - there's a clear visual aspect of the design in mysterious tunnels, moving elements, unexpected hills - but of course, there is still a very real - more subtle to the layman - notion of course design in real golf.

And that's got a parallel with gaming, where I *do* have the expertise to understand the more subtle design aesthetics yet still recognising the broader design that might be more akin with mini golf. Take, say, Super Mario 3D World (since it's the game I've completed most recently!). There's the broad 'mini golf' appeal of the cheerful character, bright graphics, pacy and immediate gameplay, but there's also the more subtle design in the complexities of the levels and how precise and agile control of Mario is.

For me, then, I'm largely design-focussed, and often when I've written a lot about a specific part of gaming it's been of some design aspect of it (most notably, of late, having written a fair bit in the last few years of puzzle design).

There is a second layer of appeal to me, though. I haven't actually responded to the gameplay > story thread as yet, but I used to be exclusively pro-gameplay at the expense of story. That's changed through the years, though; I've noticed that a good story serves to motivate me more to keep going. Super Mario 3D World keeps me playing because of the gameplay, but Alan Wake - a game that, it could be argued, has fairly weak pure gameplay - kept me going because of the story.

And, I should add on that front, I'm saying story, but I don't simply mean the events that occur during the game; I'm also talking about the worldbuilding, the atmosphere, the parts that actively draw you in. I control Mario. I am Alan.

You rattled off a big list of individual reasons for why people play. I think, though, many of those all fall under one of those two broader viewpoints (I'll use the archetypal games as examples, here)

Super Mario 3D World
Some people play video games for the pure art of defeating or improving at the game.
Some people play video games as an outlet for competitive energy.
Some people play video games to admire, explore and appreciate the pure game design.

Alan Wake:
Some people play video games to admire the beauty of a game's graphics or aesthetic.
Some people play video games as a form of escapism.
Some people play video games to be told a story.
Some people play video games to be an active participant in a story they're being told.
Some people play video games to explore another world.
Some people play video games to be immersed in an experience.

That leaves three:

Some people play video games for a sense of self-empowerment.
Some people play video games to spend time socializing.
Some people play video games to mindlessly kill time.

Are there any games I play for empowerment? I can't really think of any directly. I *get* feelings of empowerment from a lot, but that's not the same thing - I wouldn't say that's my primary motivation (indeed, I've just commented in another thread that I tend to have the philosophy that in playing a game, I am consciously giving myself over to the designer's whims; I am deliberately *surrendering* power).

Socialising: That's an interesting one. I don't really play multiplayer, with one big exception: I play an awful lot of WoW, and it's gives me something that other games don't, but I don't think it's quite accurate to say it's socialising, as such; I get social interactions from WoW, but I don't play it for said interactions. The way I particularly appreciate WoW is the metagaming aspect of it, I think; I tend to view raiding as like an RTS with units you command by voice who have their own foibles and need handling with care! It's unconventional, it's a very different means of play, and that's what I get from it.

Mindlessly killing time: Yeah, most notably Simon Tatham's Puzzle collection on my phone at the moment; quick logic puzzles (in the Picross/Slitherlink vein). They fill in the small gaps that allow me to exercise my brain without needing to devote a lot of time to it. I'm not sure if I actively *seek* games for that purpose - I think if they weren't available, I'd play something more involved in the gap instead, but it's still a need that's fulfilled.

So, yes. For me, there's two very broad categories that are fulfilled by two broad types of game, and then a few little things that I don't actively seek, as such, but appreciate when they're present.

Really good writeup.

 

[Sagely]

Excellent analogy OP. It got me thinking really hard about my relationship with games and I was able to boil it down to a couple of things:

By and large, it's escapism in the form of participating in an adventure. Perhaps this is a blanket statement but it describes what draws me to games such as Metal Gear Solid, Ace Attorney, Zelda, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Zero Escape and Persona (which are mostly very different genres). Whether it's exploring a grand world or chatting with interesting characters, that's what pulls me into games 80% of the time. I'm a big believer in the story not being the same thing as the plot - more a mixture of things such as characters, lore and the world itself.

I also get pulled in by "charm" in games which is hard to quantify objectively, but I'd categorise Wind Waker, Nier, Bully and Deadly Premonition in this way. Maybe it's about the game having a lot of character and being more than the sum of its parts.

Finally there are a (very) few games I enjoy purely for the design and the joyful feeling of playing them: Bayonetta, Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil 4 and (mostly) Metal Gear Rising. Great pacing and slick combat just feel so good. These examples also happen to have amazing audio-visual feedback, another important aspect of design.

 

[Brashnir]

And now to address the main theme of the OP:

Great response. My intent wasn't so much to have people discuss why they like golf, or what specific aspects of it entertain them, though I do appreciate you doing so, and the mini-golf aspect definitely helped show where you're coming from. I was more using golf as an example outside video games which is a super basic, yet very popular game which has a broad appeal beyond the mere mechanics of the game itself. I was hoping people would mentally take a similar look at games they do like, even if they don't take the time to break them down in writing, and see what they really like about the games they play.

And since I started the thread, I guess I should talk a little bit about what I get out of games.

I tend to be more on the side who likes heavily mechanical games, and likes to investigate and break down the mechanics of games, which I guess should be evident from the fact that I made this thread. That doesn't mean that I'm immune to a good story, either - I had a similar experience with Alan Wake as you did, although I did think the light-to-weaken-before shooting mechanic had merit and could be implemented in a more interesting manner. I did like the story of the game, even if it was pretty basic and a bit cliche, and found myself wanting to find out more which kept me going.

I also listed KOTOR on my top games of the PS2/etc. generation thread, and that game is pretty poor mechanically, but hooked me with its story/characters and atmosphere. I also love the Ace Attorney series, despite the games being pretty dire mechanically.

I also have a tendency to drift toward games with certain aesthetics that appeal to me, and away from those that don't. I don't think anime is a horrible thing, and it won't completely dissuade me from playing a game (currently playing Valkyria Chronicles as it turns out), but I'm generally a bit turned off by the style. The visual styles I do find appealing are pretty broad and varied, and I don't think here is the place to have that discussion.

So I guess if I had to break down what I get from games, and what draws me to them, it would be something like:

50% learning/understanding/exploring/exploiting base game mechanics. This extends to board, card, and other games as well.
10% being drawn to certain aesthetic styles.
10% being told a story.
10% socializing with others, whether it be a multiplayer game, or discussing them here or other places.
10% as a release for my competitive nature.
and 10% as pure mindless amusement.

There's also a small part of me which is drawn to the lure of loot/unlocking stuff/"gaining" something from games, but it's something I try to suppress, as I think it's rather unhealthy to chase those things, and the sorts of games that use that as their hook tend to be pretty poor otherwise.

 

[mclem]

Great response. My intent wasn't so much to have people discuss why they like golf, or what specific aspects of it entertain them, though I do appreciate you doing so, and the mini-golf aspect definitely helped show where you're coming from.

Yeah, my point was carrying on your metaphor and applying it to myself, and how what I *do* like from golf is reflected in what I prefer in gaming.

 

[maxcriden]

Too much thought was put into this OP for it to be a thread so empty of responses.

 

[Brashnir]

Too much thought was put into this OP for it to be a thread so empty of responses.

No worries - it got about the level of response I expected.

 

[maxcriden]

No worries - it got about the level of response I expected.

Well, I for one immensely appreciated it. Great read, thank you

 

[ThatStupidLion]

so hot shots is the ultimate leisure experience?

i've been asking myself this though more often as my desire to play games is beginning to wane. i don't know how to answer it though.

 

[Lelcar]

I keep a open mind when it comes to all video games and I'm down to try anything once. I am definitely not picky when it comes to games and I find it easy to "change hats" so to speak and equally enjoy a virtual novel or fighting game or a RPG, etc. I love video games and I feel like I'm a rare case in that I'm generally positive about most games.

I can't articulate what draws me to video games as it's not a specific experience that I'm looking for. I like a bit of everything. I like new things, I like change, I like old things. There are times when I value gameplay above all else and times where I more value the story, it's a case by case basis. And this passion extends across all media, I love all entertainment: film, tv, literature, music, etc. Maybe it's because video games get to incorporate all forms of creativity. I just like getting lost in something and having that experience forever with me as well as a venue to generate conversation.

Anyway, I'm an 80s baby, played games forever, and I've somehow never become jaded nor have I ever been a slave to nostalgia, favouring a "golden age" over others. Also, they say that the first game that you play in a series is your favourite which is also not true for me. My first Mario Kart or Final Fantasy or Metal Gear or what-have-you has never been my favourite in the series. Due to the nature of how fast gameplay becomes dated, I'm of the mindset that sequels are generally better than the original for video games.

 

[Cream]

I like cool stories, fun unrealistic moments, and cute video game girls.

I hate golf though. Pointless, land wasting excuse for a game

 

[Brashnir]

I like cool stories, fun unrealistic moments, and cute video game girls.

I hate golf though. Pointless, land wasting excuse for a game

To be fair, I don't really care for golf either - but I do appreciate its combination of simplicity and difficulty as a game.

 

[mrklaw]

These days I tend not to be able to complete challenging games as I simply don't have the time. Occasionally a game like Dark Souls will come along and I'll ignore everything else and get sucked in deep. But usually not. i'm not that interested in challenge - I don't mind if I play on easy if the story or the atmosphere and locations are interesting. I'll still get plenty of enjoyment from that.

I'm pretty happy to explore a game world, see how it ticks, and what motivates me to progress. I've become way less tolerant of blatant mechanical devices designed to burn my time though, and those are becoming more prevalent these days with collectibles etc. time limits are another thing I'll ignore - the game may want to encourage replay value by giving me a 'par' to hit, but usually I'll like to take my time and absorb the surroundings. Games that force a time limit on me are very frustrating. I still don't know why mario games do that.

One recent example would be Grim Fandango. I have never played it, but am super curious about it. The setting and story look intriguing. But being a 90's adventure game I know I'll hit several brick walls and become frustrated. That kind of game would be perfect for me as a visual novel - letting me explore the characters, world and story without major blockages. I may still buy it but play with a walk through at my side so it doesn't become annoying.

 

[Brashnir]

These days I tend not to be able to complete challenging games as I simply don't have the time. Occasionally a game like Dark Souls will come along and I'll ignore everything else and get sucked in deep. But usually not. i'm not that interested in challenge - I don't mind if I play on easy if the story or the atmosphere and locations are interesting. I'll still get plenty of enjoyment from that.

I'm pretty happy to explore a game world, see how it ticks, and what motivates me to progress. I've become way less tolerant of blatant mechanical devices designed to burn my time though, and those are becoming more prevalent these days with collectibles etc. time limits are another thing I'll ignore - the game may want to encourage replay value by giving me a 'par' to hit, but usually I'll like to take my time and absorb the surroundings. Games that force a time limit on me are very frustrating. I still don't know why mario games do that.

One recent example would be Grim Fandango. I have never played it, but am super curious about it. The setting and story look intriguing. But being a 90's adventure game I know I'll hit several brick walls and become frustrated. That kind of game would be perfect for me as a visual novel - letting me explore the characters, world and story without major blockages. I may still buy it but play with a walk through at my side so it doesn't become annoying.

I'm personally totally against you on the area of challenging games, but totally with you on the bolded. Game padding and tedious time-wasting bullshit drives me absolutely nuts when I play a game.