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[JeffZero]

Mobile Suit Gundam #12-14 Thoughts

I want to talk about the individual episodes tonight. They were so different from one-another!

First things first: the twelfth episode was pretty great. That famous Zeon speech... it felt good to finally experience it within the context of the full series. It's just a shame Garma looked like a Simpson in his funeral photo. Char with shades in a bar... the best. Also, Ramba Ral says "seeya" really nonchalantly when his lover is kissing him; god, I love old dubs.

13 ("Going Home") was pretty good. The theme (you can't go home again, as they say) is powerful, but the script is wonky, even by MSG standards. Amuro shoots the Zeon dude and his mom has such a weird breakdown. Like, I get having a breakdown over your son shooting a soldier like that, but the escalation is... odd. Within three responses, "I'm ashamed to call you my son!" Damn, haha. Anyway, the episode starts and ends really well. Amuro finding drunk Federation soldiers in his old house is powerful. (That flashback where his mother is telling his father, "I just can't go to space," sort of highlights some of the strangely shallow with MSG's presentation of ideals, though.) His mother crying as White Base takes away his son at the end is striking. Really iconic moment.

14 sucked. Worst episode so far. It was cool seeing Amuro put his mechanical expertise to work, but those gnarly Zeon goons who planted the bombs were like M*A*S*H comedy hour rejects, Fraw Bow's anguish over not being able to go out there and diffuse the bombs himself was a really stupid moment for her, and everyone basically just acted more wooden than usual while Amuro picked up pseudo-C4 for half an hour. Also, hoverbikes, lol.

 

[CBTech]

14 sucked. Worst episode so far. It was cool seeing Amuro put his mechanical expertise to work, but those gnarly Zeon goons who planted the bombs were like M*A*S*H comedy hour rejects, Fraw Bow's anguish over not being able to go out there and diffuse the bombs himself was a really stupid moment for her, and everyone basically just acted more wooden than usual while Amuro picked up pseudo-C4 for half an hour. Also, hoverbikes, lol.

There is a manga that follows those Zeon soldiers prior to this episode. I didn't realize it until the end since I forgot about this episode at the time. The manga was actually decent, but I think that is because it scratches my 08th MS Team itch. I need more Gundam that follows low level soldiers.

 

[muteki]

For so long I thought it was 14 that was cut from the US release, not 15. From what I remember it was such a more goofy episode than Doan's.

 

[CBTech]

I take back what I said about Grodek from AGE. He isn't just a knock-off Jamil. He has become my favorite character for all the sleazy stuff he is doing behind everyone's back. The UE mobile suit designs are also growing on me, especially after realizing they look like Zone of the Enders mechs crossed with Gundam. I keep asking myself why Flit doesn't just have the AGE system 3D print DOTS Rifles for everyone? The Gundam's weaponry and the G-Exes are the only suits that have shown being capable of destroying a UE MS, but they keep sending out Genoaces and other grunts to fight them.

Does anyone know if AGE was targeting a younger audience than normal? There is something about the character designs and the Titus and Spallow variants of the Gundam that feel like they are skewing in that direction.

 

[JadedWriter]

I take back what I said about Grodek from AGE. He isn't just a knock-off Jamil. He has become my favorite character for all the sleazy stuff he is doing behind everyone's back. The UE mobile suit designs are also growing on me, especially after realizing they look like Zone of the Enders mechs crossed with Gundam. I keep asking myself why Flit doesn't just have the AGE system 3D print DOTS Rifles for everyone? The Gundam's weaponry and the G-Exes are the only suits that have shown being capable of destroying a UE MS, but they keep sending out Genoaces and other grunts to fight them.

Does anyone know if AGE was targeting a younger audience than normal? There is something about the character designs and the Titus and Spallow variants of the Gundam that feel like they are skewing in that direction.

I'm pretty sure this is targeting a younger demographic since they got Level 5 to design the characters if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Ceallach]

For so long I thought it was 14 that was cut from the US release, not 15. From what I remember it was such a more goofy episode than Doan's.

I feel the same way and I don't think Doan's is any uglier than most either.

 

[Ceallach]

I take back what I said about Grodek from AGE. He isn't just a knock-off Jamil. He has become my favorite character for all the sleazy stuff he is doing behind everyone's back. The UE mobile suit designs are also growing on me, especially after realizing they look like Zone of the Enders mechs crossed with Gundam. I keep asking myself why Flit doesn't just have the AGE system 3D print DOTS Rifles for everyone? The Gundam's weaponry and the G-Exes are the only suits that have shown being capable of destroying a UE MS, but they keep sending out Genoaces and other grunts to fight them.

Does anyone know if AGE was targeting a younger audience than normal? There is something about the character designs and the Titus and Spallow variants of the Gundam that feel like they are skewing in that direction.

AGE was targeting kids, 100%. There were plans for the series to be long running, video game crossovers, mobile games, all kinds of shit then it just kinda flopped.

 

[distantmantra]

When I was last in Tokyo in 2014, I saw stacks and stacks of unsold AGE school supplies at a Seiyu in Sangenjaya.

 

[JeffZero]

Poor AGE. I wonder what went wrong.

*hasn't seen AGE*

There is a manga that follows those Zeon soldiers prior to this episode. I didn't realize it until the end since I forgot about this episode at the time. The manga was actually decent, but I think that is because it scratches my 08th MS Team itch. I need more Gundam that follows low level soldiers.

That's pretty cool. Hopefully they're better written in the manga, though.

 

[CBTech]

That's pretty cool. Hopefully they're better written in the manga, though.

Definitely. It was a short series, maybe 6 chapters, that followed this group of scouts with their silly hover bikes over the course of the One Year War. There were some good scenes. It did a good job of showing the Zeon grunts as being people and being screwed over by the Zeon higher ups. Art was also pretty good as well.

 

[JeffZero]

That rocks. I love stuff like that. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Beth Cyra]

AGE was targeting kids, 100%. There were plans for the series to be long running, video game crossovers, mobile games, all kinds of shit then it just kinda flopped.

Kinda is being very generous.

AGE took the crown for the lowested rated Gundam of all time according to viewership.

Prices where slashed on everything and several models, 3 MGs that we know of flat canceled.

It was brutal.

 

[JadedWriter]

Kinda is being very generous.

AGE took the crown for the lowested rated Gundam of all time according to viewership.

Prices where slashed on everything and several models 3 MGs that we know of flat canceled.

It was brutal.

Oh my damn, so Age was more hated than Victory?

 

[Beth Cyra]

Oh my damn, so Age was more hated than Victory?

AGE if you look at the stats is te single worst performing Animated Gundam period.

The only way it could be worse is something that takes the franchise....

 

[JeffZero]

I wonder how much concern this has caused for Sunrise. If AGE was the show that was intended to ensure longevity for the franchise, and it flopped brutally hard, then they're back to appealing to older fans. All well and good for us (not that I'm judging AGE; again, I haven't seen it!) but companies generally don't like it when their franchises have such a ticking clock of available marketability. And there are undoubtedly fewer of us older fans out there, anyway, since so many in our demographics lose interest.

...not that I know how old everyone else in this thread is, but I assume we're all at least 16+ or so? It feels more like we're in our twenties and up...

 

[JadedWriter]

I wonder how much concern this has caused for Sunrise. If AGE was the show that was intended to ensure longevity for the franchise, and it flopped brutally hard, then they're back to appealing to older fans. All well and good for us (not that I'm judging AGE; again, I haven't seen it!) but companies generally don't like it when their franchises have such a ticking clock of available marketability. And there are undoubtedly fewer of us older fans out there, anyway, since so many in our demographics lose interest.

...not that I know how old everyone else in this thread is, but I assume we're all at least 16+ or so? It feels more like we're in our twenties and up...

It would not surprise me if you're the youngest cause I know you're in some sort of school. I'm probably the median age in here at 31.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I wonder how much concern this has caused for Sunrise. If AGE was the show that was intended to ensure longevity for the franchise, and it flopped brutally hard, then they're back to appealing to older fans. All well and good for us (not that I'm judging AGE; again, I haven't seen it!) but companies generally don't like it when their franchises have such a ticking clock of available marketability. And there are undoubtedly fewer of us older fans out there, anyway, since so many in our demographics lose interest.

...not that I know how old everyone else in this thread is, but I assume we're all at least 16+ or so? It feels more like we're in our twenties and up...

Well no Gundam since has beem 52 episodes out the gate. Bandai has gone OO and only green lighting 25 eps to judge it and AGE could very well be the cause where they are gun shy to do it after such a failure.

 

[JeffZero]

It would not surprise me if you're the youngest cause I know you're in some sort of school. I'm probably the median age in here at 31.

I started community college late (almost 27). I'm 28 now. Heck, I might still be the youngest, though, lol.

Well no Gundam since has beem 52 episodes out the gate. Bandai has gone OO and only green lighting 25 eps to judge it and AGE could very well be the cause where they are gun shy to do it after such a failure.

Interesting. So did Reconguista in G (...that name...) fail? Or was it intended to be 25-26? I know with IBO many of us are awaiting renewal announcement on baited breath, but yeah.

 

[JadedWriter]

I started community college late (almost 27). I'm 28 now. Heck, I might still be the youngest, though, lol.

Ok, you talking about having spanish class I think it was threw me off horribly. That and never seeing OG Gundam till now probably didn't help either.

 

[Megalosaro]

There was far worse series in the franchise than AGE.

That said, AGE is pretty bad in a lot of ways. Terrible pacing. The kio arc was especially bad which sucks because it was the longest section.

Lots of under developed subplots and side characters, which makes sense since they compacted 3 generations into 50 episodes.

I hear the psp games flesh out the plot more. But... That defeats the point of the anime.

Floor is a great character though. And the g-exes is sweet.

 

[JeffZero]

Ok, you talking about having spanish class I think it was threw me off horribly. That and never seeing OG Gundam till now probably didn't help either.

I saw the tiniest little tidbits of it on Toonami here in the States, plus I played the PS2 game Journey to Jaburo. But sadly my Gundam experience was limited to Wing and 08th MS Team and 0083 (a very confused watchthrough of 0083) back when I was a teenager. I got into 00 a couple of years ago and that was when everything changed for me and I realized I'm a fan.

 

[Beth Cyra]

There was far worse series in the franchise than AGE.

That said, AGE is pretty bad in a lot of ways. Terrible pacing. The kio arc was especially bad which sucks because it was the longest section.

Lots of under developed subplots and side characters, which makes sense since they compacted 3 generations into 50 episodes.

I hear the psp games flesh out the plot more. But... That defeats the point of the anime.

Floor is a great character though. And the g-exes is sweet.

Woolf was great and G Bouncer along with AGE 3 Normal are legitly awesome suits.

I agree on worse but not by much as it only ranks above Destiny to me.

 

[JeffZero]

While you Gundam gurus are busy ranking bottom-tier Gundam, what are your stances on ZZ? I'm... tepid... about finally getting there on this UC run. My only real knowledge of it stems from some quick glances at MAHQ reviews a couple of years ago, and that Sean fellow really... really... seemed to hate it...

 

[RangerBAD]

Oh my damn, so Age was more hated than Victory?

Can't be hated if no one watched it.

While you Gundam gurus are busy ranking bottom-tier Gundam, what are your stances on ZZ? I'm... tepid... about finally getting there on this UC run. My only real knowledge of it stems from some quick glances at MAHQ reviews a couple of years ago, and that Sean fellow really... really... seemed to hate it...

ZZ has Haman so that makes it good to me. It starts out comedic, but gets really serious. Like Tomino's mood swings. It's good.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

wow, you guys are too old for me, jk =)

loving crossbone, slow reader though... i'm a little after the part

Spoiler

where berah finally screams seabook but his cockpit is slashed by Zabine

 

[Beth Cyra]

While you Gundam gurus are busy ranking bottom-tier Gundam, what are your stances on ZZ? I'm... tepid... about finally getting there on this UC run. My only real knowledge of it stems from some quick glances at MAHQ reviews a couple of years ago, and that Sean fellow really... really... seemed to hate it...

This will be posdibly the only time I jump to the defense of UC but ZZ is amazing.

Judau is wonderful and the best lead in the franchise and it allows itself to change tones and have some great character growth.

Not perfect but great. ZZ is the king of big suits and Judau/Haman is otp fo life yo.

 

[JeffZero]

wow, you guys are too old for me, jk =)

I had a feeling you were younger!

This will be posdibly the only time I jump to the defense of UC but ZZ is amazing.

Judau is wonderful and the best lead in the franchise and it allows itself to change tones and have some great character growth.

Not perfect but great. ZZ is the king of big suits and Judau/Haman is otp fo life yo.

Interesting! Alright, now we're talking!

 

[ThatChairMan]

I'm in the middle of the Kio arc now and I just want it to end. Flit's was mediocre for the most part, and Asemu's was decent, so I underestimated how much worse Kio's arc could be.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

I had a feeling you were younger!



Interesting! Alright, now we're talking!

jk, i'm about 10 years older

i'm trying to check out Zeta and realized i got ZZ mixed w/ the original.

this discussion is informative.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

I started community college late (almost 27). I'm 28 now. Heck, I might still be the youngest, though, lol.

26 here so I've got you beat, lol.

 

[JadedWriter]

While you Gundam gurus are busy ranking bottom-tier Gundam, what are your stances on ZZ? I'm... tepid... about finally getting there on this UC run. My only real knowledge of it stems from some quick glances at MAHQ reviews a couple of years ago, and that Sean fellow really... really... seemed to hate it...

It took me two watches to actually like it. Glemy's a perverted piece of shit villain wise, he just made me feel dirty to be honest. I'm not the hugest fan of Judau's group either. Roux and Lino aren't too bad, but well you'll see who the worst ones are. The group lacked and Emma that would go straight upside their heads if they got out of line. Fa tried, but Fa's too nice for that shit and for that group. Not even Bright cared enough to correct anybody, let that sink in for a minute. Bright didn't hit anybody. He just laid back, reclined in his captains chair and fucking ate cheeseburgers while fending off his stalker from the La Vi En Rose. Judau's more tolerable than Kamille but I just don't like him as much for some odd reason. Judau's a bro, but he's not too high up on my UC protag list. I like him enough to not hate him, but not enough to love him if that makes any kind of sense at all.

 

[SoundPulse]

While you Gundam gurus are busy ranking bottom-tier Gundam, what are your stances on ZZ? I'm... tepid... about finally getting there on this UC run. My only real knowledge of it stems from some quick glances at MAHQ reviews a couple of years ago, and that Sean fellow really... really... seemed to hate it...

It's alright. Stick with it past the first half and you might find something to enjoy. Maybe not. It's usually a love or hate it deal, it seems. If you enjoyed Zeta, probably the latter. If you like Bright, also, probably the latter.

Spoiler

puru

 

[Beth Cyra]

It's alright. Stick with it past the first half and you might something to enjoy. Maybe not. It's usually a love or hate it deal, it seems. If you enjoyed Zeta, probably the latter. If you like Bright, also, probably the latter.

Spoiler

puru

This could be accurate.

I personally think Zeta is dog shit and it was shocking to me that people liked and not only like it but think of it as the pinnacle of Gundam when I first ventured online.

 

[JeffZero]

Haha, this ZZ discussion is intriguing. I feel strangely hyped to finally check it out. It'll be a while, though... gonna go with 08th and IGLOO and 0080 and 0083 and Zeta first. (I... think that's it.)

It's only available subbed, right?

 

[JadedWriter]

Haha, this ZZ discussion is intriguing. I feel strangely hyped to finally check it out. It'll be a while, though... gonna go with 08th and IGLOO and 0080 and 0083 and Zeta first. (I... think that's it.)

It's only available subbed, right?

It's never been dubbed officially.
Dat ain't yer business grandad shaddup.
Am I like the only person that doesn't have Judau as their favorite UC protag? At least on here.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Haha, this ZZ discussion is intriguing. I feel strangely hyped to finally check it out. It'll be a while, though... gonna go with 08th and IGLOO and 0080 and 0083 and Zeta first. (I... think that's it.)

It's only available subbed, right?

Yes.

Though a weird english dub does partially exist and can be found. ZZ offically is only in JPN with subs.

 

[muteki]

Unless I missed something I don't believe ZZ has had an official english release. I believe RightStuf is supposed to put one out after Z but I'm not sure if it will have a dub. Late this year/early next probably. I watched a HK bootleg way back when. I wouldn't watch it until after you have seen 0079 and Z at least.

After the first 15 eps or so it gets better, but I see it as the Macross 7 of Gundam. Some like it, some hate it. Episode 36 is one of my favorite UC episodes.

31 here.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

including zeta and ZZ, i'm hoping rightstuff brings out that newly remaster blu ray of 0083 and all other gundam blu ray goodies=)

too funny about M7, definitely grows on you

 

[CBTech]

Huh, unless someone else comes out of the woodwork, I think I might be the youngest here at 24.

I really want to like ZZ, but I have a hard time doing it. Judau is great, but his friends are the worst. Some of my favorite MS are in ZZ with ZZ Gundam and the Quin Mantha (I want a kit of this so bad). I also really like the last half of the show, but I think it is hurt by the tone shift. I honestly think ZZ would have been better if it either stuck with the comedy tone of the first half or had the super serious tone of the second half throughout the whole thing. The switch in tone is so jarring that I can't take either seriously.

 

[JadedWriter]

Huh, unless someone else comes out of the woodwork, I think I might be the youngest here at 24.

I really want to like ZZ, but I have a hard time doing it. Judau is great, but his friends are the worst. Some of my favorite MS are in ZZ with ZZ Gundam and the Quin Mantha (I want a kit of this so bad). I also really like the last half of the show, but I think it is hurt by the tone shift. I honestly think ZZ would have been better if it either stuck with the comedy tone of the first half or had the super serious tone of the second half throughout the whole thing. The switch in tone is so jarring that I can't take either seriously.

I really do wish Tomino went all Kill Em All with the ZZ cast. Only ones worth keeping around were Lino, the blonde chick (when she wasn't fucking around stealing Fa's mirror), Roux and Leina outside of Judau.

 

[donkey show]

Oh shit, did someone say AGE?

 

[JeffZero]

Not to interrupt all the wonderful ZZ answers but I'm watching the next episode of Mobile Suit Gundam and everyone is so obsessed with salt

Edit: 10/10, would watch that ZZ Aninax dub the whole way through.

 

[SoundPulse]

Loved the Chef dude.

I think that episode was his only appearance, though, other than that one throwaway scene later on.

 

[Ceallach]

I love ZZ. It gets a bad rap, parts of it are phenomenal, I lov the Africa stuff. I love Haman, Judau. I enjoy it more than Zeta even if I think Zeta is certainly better.

And Age sucks, but I would put it above both SEED series and behind Wing and G-Reco at my bottom tier.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Huh, unless someone else comes out of the woodwork, I think I might be the youngest here at 24.

I really want to like ZZ, but I have a hard time doing it. Judau is great, but his friends are the worst. Some of my favorite MS are in ZZ with ZZ Gundam and the Quin Mantha (I want a kit of this so bad). I also really like the last half of the show, but I think it is hurt by the tone shift. I honestly think ZZ would have been better if it either stuck with the comedy tone of the first half or had the super serious tone of the second half throughout the whole thing. The switch in tone is so jarring that I can't take either seriously.

I think the tone shift is one of ZZ's best aspects.

Life changes from day to day and so many bleak or comedy plots cant balance or bring the other in.

ZZ didn't do it perfectly but it gave the characters like Judau a life instead of being such a static and boring character which I feel most Gundam leads are.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

so which is everyone saying is better? Zeta or ZZ?

 

[Beth Cyra]

so which is everyone saying is better Zeta or ZZ?

Zeta is easily more popular and widely considered the far better show.

However I think ZZ is an 8/10 while Zeta is like a 3/10

 

[JadedWriter]

so which is everyone saying is better? Zeta or ZZ?

I prefer Zeta, but I do enjoy certain aspects of ZZ as well. It's really just up to individual opinion in my opinion. I've never really flat out told anybody not to watch a specific show. Each one is just something you're going to have to witness and interpret for yourself.

Zeta is easily more popular and widely considered the far better show.

However I think ZZ is an 8/10 while Zeta is like a 3/10

Case in point. I personally like Kamille's character growth a lot more than Judau's.

 

[JeffZero]

Loved the Chef dude.

I think that episode was his only appearance, though, other than that one throwaway scene later on.

He actually showed up a few episodes ago, too. Just to deliver some food or something.

so which is everyone saying is better? Zeta or ZZ?

I'm pretty certain the overwhelming majority of the Gundam fandom says Zeta. But I wouldn't be too surprised if I ended up preferring ZZ, if it's livelier and features a more upbeat lead.

I'm definitely looking forward to revisiting Zeta soon on my own, since when I tried watching it in 2014-15 it was with a friend who really despises stuff with its tone/style. But I do tend to veer more toward more bombastic and outgoing stuff, myself, even if it's shallower for it.

 

[JadedWriter]

He actually showed up a few episodes ago, too. Just to deliver some food or something.



I'm pretty certain the overwhelming majority of the Gundam fandom says Zeta. But I wouldn't be too surprised if I ended up preferring ZZ, if it's livelier and features a more upbeat lead.

I'm definitely looking forward to revisiting Zeta soon on my own, since when I tried watching it in 2014-15 it was with a friend who really despises stuff with its tone/style. But I do tend to veer more toward more bombastic and outgoing stuff, myself, even if it's shallower for it.

You'll like ZZ then, it's definitely more optimistic, but I do think Kamille cared more about people than Judau did. I don't think Judau got really serious until he realized how real shit was getting Kamille on the other hand wanted to fight to put down the Titans, which I think he wanted to do from the beginning. His way of acting though was just very grating and outspoken. Judau was just too unruly in my opinion. I don't think he ever reached bratty as fuck levels, but did seem to have his moments. I'd really have to rewatch ZZ again.