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[FunkMiller]

No worries, I'll let you know how it is

I know how it is. Very, very well. That's kind of the point!

 

[Hugare]

Huh? But we both reached the same conclusion in deciding to purchase for $70, so aren't we both stupid using your logic?



No one said this and budget isn't the only deciding factor when it comes to product pricing.

Hugare:



Also Hugare:

Jesus, it's hard having a conversation with you.

What other deciding factors besides budget? Think a little before answering, please. Please dont say marketing, 'cause every other new AAA release at this price also has huge marketing costs.

They are obviously charging a premium for it.

The difference between you and me is that I'm accepting it for what it really is and buying anyway. But you are still trying to find reasons to explain the $70 price tag, but they dont exist besides Sony wanting even more proffit for it.

 

[saintjules]

 

[THE DUCK]

Any review that doesn't take into account price is null and void.

Imagine a car review for a $10,000 car vs a $100,000 car and not a word not mentioned price or value
Imagine a $1 burger review vs a $20 burger and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $99 tablet review vs $1200 tablet and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $300 TV reviewed vs $3000 TV and not a word mentioned on price or value
imagine a $2000 console vs a $200 console and not a word mentioned on price or value

Pure stupidity. We get the game is great, but price ALWAYS MATTERS IN EVERYTHING. To say otherwise is to ignore the basics of economics.
To say nothing of all the people in here posting that it matters to them......just ignore them?
As far as the market speaking, there isn't much else out right now, and Sony will declare this a victory regardless of if they sell 200,000 first week or 2 million. (and then eventually proceed to drop the price as sales drop off a cliff)

 

[Fess]

Reviews are both objective and subjective. However, in my eyes an Objective review is when the game is being judged basted on what it's trying to achieve and sell.

So to give you an example -

The Last of Us Part 1 is trying to sell you on new visuals, gameplay improvements, dualsense features and so on. So when I was reviewing this title those are the things I was paying the most attention to. If those additions/features are well done and do the job they set out to do.

A subjective review for The Last of Us Part 1 would end up like this - Meh, I do not like post apocalypse setting. Omg too much walking. Omg too many cut scenes and I hate them! Omg 5/10 shit game with shit themes and annoying cut scenes !

A person reviewing the game or any game for that matter needs to understand its intended design. Now whether that design and idea is well executed is a different story.

For example - Hypothetically speaking I could not like Last of Us because of its setting or the fact that it has too many cut scenes but that doesn't make it a bad game and I'd have to put my personal tastes to the side and still look at it objectively as possible.

I may not like the cut scenes , but that doesn't mean they are poorly done or the game deserves a bad score because I do not like cut scenes.

You see what I am saying? It's a hard thing to balance and not everyone can do it well. That's why when we review games we try to be honest and transparent as possible.

In the review I mentioned that Tess looks quite a bit older if you look at her face. Some people may like that and some may not. So I specifically said that subjectively it didn't bother me but it may bother others. However, I did not take or add points because of it.

I hope this explains it, it's kind of hard to do over text , but it's the best explanation I can give. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you.

Thanks for trying to explain it, but I don’t agree. I can’t even see how you’re not subjective on dualsense features. Some like it, some hate it. Same goes for visuals. You can’t give an objective opinion on graphics unless you go into DF stats.

Personally I think it’s better to be true to how you feel about something, even if you know some will think you’re mean or a fanboy, as long as you clearly explain why you feel like you feel.

As an example, I’m no critic but if I could I would rate Returnal 9.5/10, as long as I could play it with the save cheat. That way it’s absolutely fantastic imo and quite possibly the most perfected 3D metroidvania yet.
But I would rate it 5/10, max, without the cheat… Because that way I feel like it’s literally trying to waste my life with how harsh the deaths can be, I don’t have the time or desire to replay several levels for hours because I missed a dodge, it just makes me feel angry and miserable and I could’ve used my time to do something else instead.

So do I go for the boring median score and rate it 7/10?
Or do I rate it 9.5/10 and clearly state why and how it can essentially be a masterpiece?
Or do I rate it 5/10 and clearly state why it’s essentially crap unless you cheat?
I don’t know, what would you do?

Personally I appreciate sites that have multiple scores, secondary opinions. That way they can show that the taste in games can vary to an extreme degree. Unfortunately it’s rare today.

 

[Topher]

Then I must have severe reading comprehension problems because half of your replies in our entire convo were just that, how the reviewer should have said it based on your preferences. You just did it here again, you prefer reviews to stick to facts when talking about factual manners. Then in another breath you go on about how most people play it for single player so multiplayer is not half the game. Why you chose to focus on some exact accuracy and then say shit like that in the next post is beyond me.

What the person said here is no less objectively correct than another reviewer saying something like "mind blowing graphics" or some similarly sensationalist statement. I think what's happening here is that you simply don't agree with his opinion on value and called bullshit when it's clear this isn't a rare opinion among reviewers. They just said it in a way closer to your liking.

At this point, I'm just going to clarify what was said....

Everything I've said about this is in regards to that summary. I've said he could have expressed the same message accurately. And since I'm talking specifically about that summary not being factual then that is what I'm clearly referring to when talking about "factual matters".

My statement about people viewing the game as single player was in response to you saying you played it more for multiplayer. And no, I did not say "so multiplayer is not half the game".

I've repeatedly said here that I have no problem if he said the game cost more and had less content than prior versions. I even quoted and praised the sentence from the review that said that. So not that I agree or disagree with his or any other opinion on value at all.

Hopefully that will clear things up for you.

 

[Punished Miku]

Seems like a very solid remake. Just bad pricing basically.

 

[Captain Toad]

Thanks for trying to explain it, but I don’t agree. I can’t even see how you’re not subjective on dualsense features. Some like it, some hate it. Same goes for visuals. You can’t give an objective opinion on graphics unless you go into DF stats.

Personally I think it’s better to be true to how you feel about something, even if you know some will think you’re mean or a fanboy, as long as you clearly explain why you feel like you feel.

As an example, I’m no critic but if I could I would rate Returnal 9.5/10, as long as I could play it with the save cheat. That way it’s absolutely fantastic imo and quite possibly the most perfected 3D metroidvania yet.
But I would rate it 5/10, max, without the cheat… Because that way I feel like it’s literally trying to waste my life with how harsh the deaths can be, I don’t have the time or desire to replay several levels for hours because I missed a dodge, it just makes me feel angry and miserable and I could’ve used my time to do something else instead.

So do I go for the boring median score and rate it 7/10?
Or do I rate it 9.5/10 and clearly state why and how it can essentially be a masterpiece?
Or do I rate it 5/10 and clearly state why it’s essentially crap unless you cheat?
I don’t know, what would you do?

Personally I appreciate sites that have multiple scores, secondary opinions. That way they can show that the taste in games can vary to an extreme degree. Unfortunately it’s rare today.

This is stupid. You review the game on the game. You let the buyer determine if the price is worth it or not.

Are you going to list a chart of different scores, so we know how good a game is when it's on sale or drops in price?

 

[Jaybe]

Any review that doesn't take into account price is null and void.

Imagine a car review for a $10,000 car vs a $100,000 car and not a word not mentioned price or value
Imagine a $1 burger review vs a $20 burger and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $99 tablet review vs $1200 tablet and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $300 TV reviewed vs $3000 TV and not a word mentioned on price or value
imagine a $2000 console vs a $200 console and not a word mentioned on price or value

Pure stupidity. We get the game is great, but price ALWAYS MATTERS IN EVERYTHING. To say otherwise is to ignore the basics of economics.
To say nothing of all the people in here posting that it matters to them......just ignore them?
As far as the market speaking, there isn't much else out right now, and Sony will declare this a victory regardless of if they sell 200,000 first week or 2 million. (and then eventually proceed to drop the price as sales drop off a cliff)

Sure, but If you haven’t played TLOU before, this version is easily worth full price. Many people are saying, “but I’ve already played it”… cool but that doesn’t really impact review score. That’s like saying I just ate a $20 burger and is this other $20 burger worth it in my burger review. No it should be reviewed in isolation.

 

[Jaybe]

This is stupid. You review the game on the game. You let the buyer determine if the price is worth it or not.

Are you going to list a chart of different scores, so we know how good a game is when it's on sale or drops in price?

Yeah imagine having to go back and re-review games with they hit the ‘Greatest Hits’ lineup.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Perhaps, but then how is that different from any other game? And if it isn't any different (it's not) then why are reviewers making a big deal out of it? You had most folks complaining about pricing as if Sony should have launched the game at a lower introductory price. That isn't smart business.

Because its a remake of a remaster missing a key mode.

I bet if some company released a 4k remaster of a film and it cost basically twice as much and was missing a large section of the film or episodes or something it would be knocked in reviews for that release.

It's fair imo.

This isn't a brand new next gen 70 pound game. The majority of the work is done.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He went from an Asian on bath salts to a white dude.

 

[dotnotbot]

Still doesn't worth 70€

40€ at WORST.
Will wait discount at 30€ one day.

You won't be waiting too long, as always with Sony games.

 

[Tomi]

Naughy Gods guys i tell ya

 

[Relique]

At this point, I'm just going to clarify what was said....

Everything I've said about this is in regards to that summary. I've said he could have expressed the same message accurately. And since I'm talking specifically about that summary not being factual then that is what I'm clearly referring to when talking about "factual matters".

My statement about people viewing the game as single player was in response to you saying you played it more for multiplayer. And no, I did not say "so multiplayer is not half the game".

I've repeatedly said here that I have no problem if he said the game cost more and had less content than prior versions. I even quoted and praised the sentence from the review that said that. So not that I agree or disagree with his or any other opinion on value at all.

Hopefully that will clear things up for you.

My post about playing it more for multiplayer was to try to justify why someone would consider half the game to be missing... That should have been pretty clear because I was replying to your post saying it's not half the game. And yes to me half the game is missing because I put well over 100 hours into the multiplayer on PS3 alone. And so your retort to that came across dismissive. Now you seem to be going back on that and it's coming off a bit disingenuous

The rest of it was pretty clear. You want the statement to be to be factual when half of it was a subjective opinion. The only quantifiable thing in that summary was the price. You are saying it wasn't accurate and me and another guy were saying it was close enough. Certainly close enough for me not to call bullshit. You even had people come out and say you could have easily bought it for 35 pounds on day one so that whole summary may in fact be completely accurate for that reviewer. You chose to pick apart multiple opinions but don't want yours picked apart despite inconsistencies in your arguments. What's funny about the whole thing is that what you thought the statement should be is a lot more vague and what the reviewer said is probably closer to the truth than that. Go figure.

We seem to be going in circles so this will be my last post on the subject.

 

[Caio]

DF video is going to be super interesting.

It is, I'm watching it : must watch. Now the Game is a must have, even more than before. Just my thought and opinion.

 

[eastcoastkody]

i feel im stuck in this horrible time loop. where a game that i thought was heavily overrated in 2013.....just keeps getting rereleased every couple years and it happens all over again

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

The main point of this remake was to introduce the game in a modern coat of paint to new players who never played the The Last of Us before.

The HBO show is dropping early next year and it will probably drive more interest in TLOU games for new players. The only people complaining about this remake are people who already played the game which isn’t necessarily this games audience.

So if these reviewers were to bash the game for “being a unnecessary remake” I would think that’s a very biases standpoint and it shouldn’t be a factor in the scoring.

The 5 people that gave the game between 10-20 must be furious that the game is scoring great. The hate must be very very deep in they'r souls

 

[Elder Legend]

Thanks for trying to explain it, but I don’t agree. I can’t even see how you’re not subjective on dualsense features. Some like it, some hate it. Same goes for visuals. You can’t give an objective opinion on graphics unless you go into DF stats.

Personally I think it’s better to be true to how you feel about something, even if you know some will think you’re mean or a fanboy, as long as you clearly explain why you feel like you feel.

As an example, I’m no critic but if I could I would rate Returnal 9.5/10, as long as I could play it with the save cheat. That way it’s absolutely fantastic imo and quite possibly the most perfected 3D metroidvania yet.
But I would rate it 5/10, max, without the cheat… Because that way I feel like it’s literally trying to waste my life with how harsh the deaths can be, I don’t have the time or desire to replay several levels for hours because I missed a dodge, it just makes me feel angry and miserable and I could’ve used my time to do something else instead.

So do I go for the boring median score and rate it 7/10?
Or do I rate it 9.5/10 and clearly state why and how it can essentially be a masterpiece?
Or do I rate it 5/10 and clearly state why it’s essentially crap unless you cheat?
I don’t know, what would you do?

Personally I appreciate sites that have multiple scores, secondary opinions. That way they can show that the taste in games can vary to an extreme degree. Unfortunately it’s rare today.

Sounds like to me you are simply just not a fan of Roguelike games because that's how they are designed at the core level. You are meant to replay the same thing for hours and hours and every time you come back to it you are stronger and stronger until you can best the challenge.

As for the dualsense, it's not really that big of a deal. It's a novelty feature and doesn't affect the gameplay or the gameplay loop in any shape or form. Dualsense can be a subjective thing but for the objective part you can just simply mention on what it does and what it's purpose is because it's included in the new package. Whether it's good or bad is a matter of opinion and shouldn't really affect the score whether it's negative or positive because again it doesn't effect the core gameplay mechanics.

I disagree about the visuals - If you look at the graphics side by side and put up PS3/PS4/PS5 all against each other and then proceed to say PS5 is inferior then you are just trolling. There is no way around that. You do NOT need to be Digital Foundy too see obvious differences that are right in front of you. Digital Foundry simply goes into the super technical stuff because that's what they do. There are people out there who say Demon's Souls and Ratchet and Clank A Rift in Time look bad, are you going to seriously take their so called "opinion" at face value? Come on now.

Ok let's look at this as a hypothetical scenario on how I would handle this if I hired you to work for me. This is what would happen and this is what I would do.

There is no hard feelings here or anything, I am just using this as an example to explain things and answer your question.

If you rate the game 5/10 because according to you need to cheat then you simply fail to understand game mechanics and design. Returnal reviewed quite well by many individuals, the game is challenging yes but that's the type of the game it is.

If you need a save feature for a game to be rated higher for your standards then this game simply not for you and you are pursuing personal tastes here over understanding the game design mechanics and its original intentions.

Point is, if I was hiring you and you were assigned to review this game and you were going in blind and you gave me this conclusion then I would fire you. Because this would prove to me that you are not capable of looking at things from an objective lens and letting your personal tastes get in a way. You would also make the website look extremely bad, paint me with a horrific image and possibly piss off publishers not because you are not good at a particular video game but because you simply lack the skill of looking at things from an objective perspective.

Returnal is a roguelike games and those types of games are not for everyone. I guess before assigning anything to you the first discussion we'd have is how you handle difficulty. You sound like an individual who prefers easier games so titles such as Returnal, Dark Souls and others would never been assigned to you.

You should not feel bad about this, because not every person likes every types or games. I for example cannot stand sports games. I will never review them, I always assign them to other people. Why? Because I would be the worst person for this type of a job. It's not a genre that I understand that well and I have hard time seeing differences with yearly releases. So even if I looked at them objectively it wouldn't matter, I don't have e ough interest or knowledge for the subject.

Now if you still insisted on reviewing the game and then in the middle of the review process you came to me and told me that the game is too hard or felt overly punishing and you didn't know what to do. I would email the publisher and tell them that a review was re-assigned to someone else due to the fact that the original writer is either a) not understanding the game mechanics or b) is not able to handle the default difficulty setting and is not able to review because of it in a timely manner. Your review would be reassigned to someone else.

Or if you still really wanted your opinion/review to be heard then you would need to give it a higher score than originally intended and put in a disclaimer in the review that it's coming from someone who's not really into roguelike games so in your case probably the 7.5 or the 8.0/10.

If this does occur then I would ask you to tell me what kind of games you like or understand on a mechanical and game design level. It is fine to dislike rogue likes.

This is what would happen. This may sound harsh but I am just giving you the reality of how this would be handled from my point of view.

The point is giving a game 5/10 because of a lack of a "cheat" and because the game is too "hard" is extremely disingenuous to the publisher, development team and the game itself.

But at same time it would be disingenuous and extremely unprofessional of me to throw you off the cliff and not let you have your opinion be valid and take away your creative freedom. So we would work together as a team and find a balance where we both agree and don't upset each other or the publisher.

I hope this explains thing a bit better.

 

[Topher]

My post about playing it more for multiplayer was to try to justify why someone would consider half the game to be missing... That should have been pretty clear because I was replying to your post saying it's not half the game. And yes to me half the game is missing because I put well over 100 hours into the multiplayer on PS3 alone. And so your retort to that came across dismissive. Now you seem to be going back on that and it's coming off a bit disingenuous

The rest of it was pretty clear. You want the statement to be to be factual when half of it was a subjective opinion. The only quantifiable thing in that summary was the price. You are saying it wasn't accurate and me and another guy were saying it was close enough. Certainly close enough for me not to call bullshit. You even had people come out and say you could have easily bought it for 35 pounds on day one so that whole summary may in fact be completely accurate for that reviewer. You chose to pick apart multiple opinions but don't want yours picked apart despite inconsistencies in your arguments. What's funny about the whole thing is that what you thought the statement should be is a lot more vague and what the reviewer said is probably closer to the truth than that. Go figure.

We seem to be going in circles so this will be my last post on the subject.

Yeah, we are and I'm still not sure why.

I get what your MP comment said, but the simple fact of the matter is that those who are only interested in the single player are getting bad information. For those, the game is actually getting more content since the DLC is included.

As to the price, the review doesn't even make a statement that he is talking about UK gamers only. The review is on Metacritic and that is where the comment was highlighted. The game cost $50 in the US so once again those outside the UK are getting bad information. So yeah, I think the summary is bullshit. Go figure.

I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Markio128]

A surprising amount of salt in this thread.

 

[drotahorror]

No bullet time activated by ADSing accessibility option like part 2. Damn. Loved that. It still has toggleable slow motion with touch pad though.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

If ND was a woman she would be the type who says: no money, no candy

 

[freefornow]

Is ACG the only reviewer to mention game bugs? Don't think John (DF) mentioned any bugs in his verbal orgasm analysis.

 

[THE DUCK]

Sure, but If you haven’t played TLOU before, this version is easily worth full price. Many people are saying, “but I’ve already played it”… cool but that doesn’t really impact review score. That’s like saying I just ate a $20 burger and is this other $20 burger worth it in my burger review. No it should be reviewed in isolation.

So like 1 out of every 1000 people, that's who the review should be written for? It should not be reviewed in isolation, we don't live in a bubble and 99% of PS gamers have already played it. Value matters.

 

[THE DUCK]

Yeah imagine having to go back and re-review games with they hit the ‘Greatest Hits’ lineup.

Clearly not the same thing, we are talking about a game that has been released twice already.
You can't just let the buyer determine worth, they have no point of reference, that's the whole point of the review, to tell us if it's worth the money now. So you can't just ignore the price tag. How can I tell if it's worth $70 if I haven't played it?

 

[rubhen925]

pretty solid remake, enjoyed my time with it. Not including mp is a dick move imo. It's like a portion of the game is missing. I gave it an 8 in my review. As the remake does stack up to recent releases in terms of visuals the gameplay is somewhat dated. TLOU2 gameplay and additions should have been added to this remake imo, crouch, crawling under cars, new melee system etc. Ah well.

 

[ZehDon]

Sure, but If you haven’t played TLOU before, this version is easily worth full price. Many people are saying, “but I’ve already played it”… cool but that doesn’t really impact review score. That’s like saying I just ate a $20 burger and is this other $20 burger worth it in my burger review. No it should be reviewed in isolation.

Interesting. If Naughty Dog were to re-release The Last of Us each year with new graphical improvements, and each new year it was the same game at the same full price, you would expect the reviews either remain consistently high year to year, or, actually increase year to year owing to the objective improvements? Because I would expect the review scores to be disastrously low the second year they tried such a low effort cash grab.

Reviews are, at their most basic, a detailed explanation to potential buyers describing if a product or service is worth their time, effort, and money. Reviews are not, nor should they be, conducted in isolation. Should someone drop an eye-watering AUD$125.00 for the TLOU remake exclusively for the PS5, or, AUD$20.00 for the TLOU remaster on PS4 that also works on their PS5? The PS4 remaster was "the best version" when it released and actually reviewed better than the TLOU remake. Its the same story. Which is the better buy? This is the kind of decision a review needs to assist with, so, frankly, suggesting reviews should be conducted in isolation is pure stupidity.

 

[skneogaf]

I'm impressed with the fps when set to 1440p performance unlocked VRR

90FPS is great!

Its almost got me thinking do I need to wait for the pc version!

 

[MHubert]

How?? It’s always subjective when a person is telling you how much they like something. Unless it’s about the number of pixels or triangles or some other metric you can have an actual factual figure on I don’t see how it’s possible to be objective. You can always try though.

You are right, it is, but the purpose of a review is to give your peers enough objective information about the game so they can judge whether or not it suits their subjective tastes.

I might be beating a dead horse, but you can compare it to a house. You might like or dislike it, but you can still understand the craftmanship objectively in every way.

 

[Synless]

Incredible race swapping amiright???

 

[DenchDeckard]

Was the digital Foundry a sponsored content thing? Didn't look like it was mentioned, but sure sounded like one. 50 minutes to say it basically looks like last of us 2 was a bit much lol.

 

[RoadHazard]

Great for newcomers, not so great value for those of us who have already played this exact game (with worse graphics) X times, as expected.

Will wait for PS+.

 

[Topher]

Was the digital Foundry a sponsored content thing? Didn't look like it was mentioned, but sure sounded like one. 50 minutes to say it basically looks like last of us 2 was a bit much lol.

Sponsored content now?

 

[ChiefDada]

The difference between you and me is that I'm accepting it for what it really is and buying anyway. But you are still trying to find reasons to explain the $70 price tag, but they dont exist besides Sony wanting even more proffit for it.

Oh no no no, the difference between you and me is I understand the inherent subjectivity, and by extension, futility of the debate over pricing. I don't want or need to explain the reasoning behind the price. That is Sony's job, not mine. As a consumer, I agree/disagree with the pricing based on whatever personal reasons I have, and purchase or pass accordingly. Contrary to the insane level of discourse on this topic, it's as simple as that.

 

[Hobbygaming]

This is why the remake was a bad idea. It was and is a truly great game but the end of the day it is a PS3 game. Calling it outdated is just pointless since it is a 10 year old game. Let it be a product of it's time. The PS4 version was already at 60 FPS so what else could they have done without completely redoing everything?

I don't see nothing wrong with it, I'm a diehard TLOU fan so I'm happy

And new people get to experience this masterpiece for the 1st time in new pristine visuals

No harm done

 

[Jaybe]

So like 1 out of every 1000 people, that's who the review should be written for? It should not be reviewed in isolation, we don't live in a bubble and 99% of PS gamers have already played it. Value matters.

Interesting. If Naughty Dog were to re-release The Last of Us each year with new graphical improvements, and each new year it was the same game at the same full price, you would expect the reviews either remain consistently high year to year, or, actually increase year to year owing to the objective improvements? Because I would expect the review scores to be disastrously low the second year they tried such a low effort cash grab.

Reviews are, at their most basic, a detailed explanation to potential buyers describing if a product or service is worth their time, effort, and money. Reviews are not, nor should they be, conducted in isolation. Should someone drop an eye-watering AUD$125.00 for the TLOU remake exclusively for the PS5, or, AUD$20.00 for the TLOU remaster on PS4 that also works on their PS5? The PS4 remaster was "the best version" when it released and actually reviewed better than the TLOU remake. Its the same story. Which is the better buy? This is the kind of decision a review needs to assist with, so, frankly, suggesting reviews should be conducted in isolation is pure stupidity.

Given the predominantly high scores TLOU Part 1 is receiving across the board, it looks like reviewers agree with my take rather than yours

 

[MacReady13]

i feel im stuck in this horrible time loop. where a game that i thought was heavily overrated in 2013.....just keeps getting rereleased every couple years and it happens all over again

I couldn't agree with you more. Enjoy the game but it is a heavily overrated game. Thought that from my 1st playthrough on PS3 at its launch and think the same thing today.

 

[Ezekiel_]

Any review that doesn't take into account price is null and void.

Imagine a car review for a $10,000 car vs a $100,000 car and not a word not mentioned price or value
Imagine a $1 burger review vs a $20 burger and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $99 tablet review vs $1200 tablet and not a word mentioned on price or value
Imagine a $300 TV reviewed vs $3000 TV and not a word mentioned on price or value
imagine a $2000 console vs a $200 console and not a word mentioned on price or value

Pure stupidity. We get the game is great, but price ALWAYS MATTERS IN EVERYTHING. To say otherwise is to ignore the basics of economics.
To say nothing of all the people in here posting that it matters to them......just ignore them?
As far as the market speaking, there isn't much else out right now, and Sony will declare this a victory regardless of if they sell 200,000 first week or 2 million. (and then eventually proceed to drop the price as sales drop off a cliff)

You are confusing the 'Score' of a game ('How good is it?') with the 'Value' of a game ('Is it worth it's asking price?').

We have two variables : Score and Price. Value is derived from those two.

Let's say a game comes out and receives very good reviews. 9/10 average Metacritic, considering factors like visual design, sound design, musical score, gameplay design, story, etc. The game is sold for 70$.

Now imagine the same exact game, but sold for 700$. Sure, the value proposition might of tanked, but it doesn't change the fact that the game is very good.

Now let's say the very same game is sold for 7$. Does that automatically make it a 10/10? It is now very good value, but the game didn't get any 'better', right?

Furthermore, if value is factored into a review score, wouldn't that automatically make every free to play game a 10/10?

We can use your car example. If a reviewer drives a car and thinks that the handling is average, nothing special, it doesn't matter if the car is cheap or expensive, that's the way the handling is. The value of the car will be affected though, because a 100 000$ car with average handling might be a deal breaker, but a 1000$ car with average handling might be acceptable. The 'Score' of the handling component didn't change just by virtue of the fact that the price changed.

 

[Punished Miku]

As far as the AI improvement, this video came out 8 years ago. The guy was practically run off NeoGAF from angry fans who couldn't handle it. Its a very well made video.

 

[Topher]

I couldn't agree with you more. Enjoy the game but it is a heavily overrated game. Thought that from my 1st playthrough on PS3 at its launch and think the same thing today.

I could say that about a number of games that I didn't enjoy as much as others did. I choose not to simply because I don't want to try and rob others of their enjoyment by needlessly inserting my opinion. I just don't like them and I leave it at that. Particularly when the game is nearly ten years old.

 

[Thirty7ven]

When remakes from other publishers and studios add content that was not present in the OG game, do not remove content that was in the OG game, and in some cases are priced at a discount, then it definitely matters.

These other remakes are straight up dog trash, cool for you if that makes you happy but I’m here for the high end not the dollar store special.

 

[MacReady13]

I could say that about a number of games that I didn't enjoy as much as others did. I choose not to simply because I don't want to try and rob others of their enjoyment by needlessly inserting my opinion. I just don't like them and I leave it at that. Particularly when the game is nearly ten years old.

What?!? I voice an opinion and I'm robing you or others of your enjoyment? I'm allowed to have my say. I said I like the game but it's overrated. So of you are a little sensitive in this here thread... You do realize it's only a game, yeah?

 

[THE DUCK]

You are confusing the 'Score' of a game ('How good is it?') with the 'Value' of a game ('Is it worth it's asking price?').

We have two variables : Score and Price. Value is derived from those two.

Let's say a game comes out and receives very good reviews. 9/10 average Metacritic, considering factors like visual design, sound design, musical score, gameplay design, story, etc. The game is sold for 70$.

Now imagine the same exact game, but sold for 700$. Sure, the value proposition might of tanked, but it doesn't change the fact that the game is very good.

Now let's say the very same game is sold for 7$. Does that automatically make it a 10/10? It is now very good value, but the game didn't get any 'better', right?

Furthermore, if value is factored into a review score, wouldn't that automatically make every free to play game a 10/10?

We can use your car example. If a reviewer drives a car and thinks that the handling is average, nothing special, it doesn't matter if the car is cheap or expensive, that's the way the handling is. The value of the car will be affected though, because a 100 000$ car with average handling might be a deal breaker, but a 1000$ car with average handling might be acceptable. The 'Score' of the handling component didn't change just by virtue of the fact that the price changed.

Some of what you are saying is valid, however the end consumer is taking into account the value and price of the object in every scenario. At the very least they could have a separate section like many sites do for value (as of the date of the review).
No reason to restrict us to subjective scores only as it does a disservice to the reader. The reader deserves more, not less.

 

[THE DUCK]

Given the predominantly high scores TLOU Part 1 is receiving across the board, it looks like reviewers agree with my take rather than yours

Maybe, or they are just cowards who don't want to anger the Sony gods and readers. As stated in my most recent post, there is no reason why they couldn't have at least mentioned it even if they didn't affect the score.

 

[THE DUCK]

Looks like Engadget at least had the courage to call it like it is........​

"The Last of Us Part I' is a gorgeous, faithful, expensive remake"​

 

[Fess]

Sounds like to me you are simply just not a fan of Roguelike games because that's how they are designed at the core level. You are meant to replay the same thing for hours and hours and every time you come back to it you are stronger and stronger until you can best the challenge.

As for the dualsense, it's not really that big of a deal. It's a novelty feature and doesn't affect the gameplay or the gameplay loop in any shape or form. Dualsense can be a subjective thing but for the objective part you can just simply mention on what it does and what it's purpose is because it's included in the new package. Whether it's good or bad is a matter of opinion and shouldn't really affect the score whether it's negative or positive because again it doesn't effect the core gameplay mechanics.

I disagree about the visuals - If you look at the graphics side by side and put up PS3/PS4/PS5 all against each other and then proceed to say PS5 is inferior then you are just trolling. There is no way around that. You do NOT need to be Digital Foundy too see obvious differences that are right in front of you. Digital Foundry simply goes into the super technical stuff because that's what they do. There are people out there who say Demon's Souls and Ratchet and Clank A Rift in Time look bad, are you going to seriously take their so called "opinion" at face value? Come on now.

Ok let's look at this as a hypothetical scenario on how I would handle this if I hired you to work for me. This is what would happen and this is what I would do.

There is no hard feelings here or anything, I am just using this as an example to explain things and answer your question.

If you rate the game 5/10 because according to you need to cheat then you simply fail to understand game mechanics and design. Returnal reviewed quite well by many individuals, the game is challenging yes but that's the type of the game it is.

If you need a save feature for a game to be rated higher for your standards then this game simply not for you and you are pursuing personal tastes here over understanding the game design mechanics and its original intentions.

Point is, if I was hiring you and you were assigned to review this game and you were going in blind and you gave me this conclusion then I would fire you. Because this would prove to me that you are not capable of looking at things from an objective lens and letting your personal tastes get in a way. You would also make the website look extremely bad, paint me with a horrific image and possibly piss off publishers not because you are not good at a particular video game but because you simply lack the skill of looking at things from an objective perspective.

Returnal is a roguelike games and those types of games are not for everyone. I guess before assigning anything to you the first discussion we'd have is how you handle difficulty. You sound like an individual who prefers easier games so titles such as Returnal, Dark Souls and others would never been assigned to you.

You should not feel bad about this, because not every person likes every types or games. I for example cannot stand sports games. I will never review them, I always assign them to other people. Why? Because I would be the worst person for this type of a job. It's not a genre that I understand that well and I have hard time seeing differences with yearly releases. So even if I looked at them objectively it wouldn't matter, I don't have e ough interest or knowledge for the subject.

Now if you still insisted on reviewing the game and then in the middle of the review process you came to me and told me that the game is too hard or felt overly punishing and you didn't know what to do. I would email the publisher and tell them that a review was re-assigned to someone else due to the fact that the original writer is either a) not understanding the game mechanics or b) is not able to handle the default difficulty setting and is not able to review because of it in a timely manner. Your review would be reassigned to someone else.

Or if you still really wanted your opinion/review to be heard then you would need to give it a higher score than originally intended and put in a disclaimer in the review that it's coming from someone who's not really into roguelike games so in your case probably the 7.5 or the 8.0/10.

If this does occur then I would ask you to tell me what kind of games you like or understand on a mechanical and game design level. It is fine to dislike rogue likes.

This is what would happen. This may sound harsh but I am just giving you the reality of how this would be handled from my point of view.

The point is giving a game 5/10 because of a lack of a "cheat" and because the game is too "hard" is extremely disingenuous to the publisher, development team and the game itself.

But at same time it would be disingenuous and extremely unprofessional of me to throw you off the cliff and not let you have your opinion be valid and take away your creative freedom. So we would work together as a team and find a balance where we both agree and don't upset each other or the publisher.

I hope this explains thing a bit better.

Fair take and no hard feelings, but again I don’t agree. I simply don’t think there are any objectively right opinions, there are just subjective opinions by people with different taste in games.

And I’d say the reason review scores are inflated and rarely go below 6 now, or even 7, is because we only get to hear the opinions from people who already love the games they rate. Which is exactly what you’re saying you’re doing too so nothing surprise me.

Zelda fans reviews Zelda games, The Elder Scrolls fans review The Elder Scrolls games, Halo fans review Halo games, Souls fans review Souls games, etc etc etc. And to no surprise to anyone they always get 8+/10 everywhere and 80+ on Metacritic, because why wouldn’t they? It’s fans reviewing their favorite games.

This is why secondary opinions are important imo. I don’t think a Halo hater should be the only critic at a website to review the latest Halo game, as you say that would be bad PR, but I think it’s a serious problem that we never get to hear what the games are like for those who aren’t already looking at them through rose-tinted glasses.

As for Returnal you’re right that I absolutely hate roguelike games, but I didn’t know how much until I played Returnal without the save cheat. I was furious. I’m just glad I never rushed out to buy it at launch because of the high scores, wouldn’t have been able to save cheat then since I didn’t have cloud storage which is how it’s done.

I love it a ton through PS+ Premium though now that I can save, it’s one of the best 3D action games I’ve played in a long time tbh, haven’t finished it yet but I’m at level 6 so I think it’s fairly close.

Elden Ring is my GOTY but yeah Souls games in general can definitely grind my gears quite badly, so you’re kinda right there too. I mostly have issues with how linear they are, combined with the difficulty, I just end up doing dumb grinding for hours until they’re easier.

Elden Ring side-stepped all that by being so open, you can explore to level up instead of grind. Absolutely loving it, 220 hours played. Trying a astrologer build now which is a lot different than the melee build I had on my first playthrough, less frustration but almost too easy up til after Godrick at least, I’m guessing some later bosses will still be problematic though.


About reviews again, in general I think the biggest issues with reviews right now is that the consumers aren’t even playing the versions you critics are reviewing. I have no idea how to fix that.

How do you rate a buggy review code? Do you rate it as is even though you know patches are coming? Or do you hold the review until patches are there? Or do you rate the assumed state the game might possibly be at after a couple of patches?

And what about a game that gets a bs patch after launch that introduced something bad? Do you go back and re-review it? Or do you just leave the review as is and pretend the score isn’t terribly wrong for anyone jumping in late?

 

[Jaybe]

Looks like Engadget at least had the courage to call it like it is........​

"The Last of Us Part I' is a gorgeous, faithful, expensive remake"​

From their review…

Is Part I worth it, and who is it for?​

After going through the many things Naughty Dog added and changed for The Last of Us Part I, the $70 price point doesn't bother me as much as it initially did. Yes, that’s a lot of money for a game, and it's fair to ask whether replaying a game with nine-year-old mechanics should cost that much. If Sony / Naughty Dog priced this at $50 or even $60, I think that would be a fair price point that would be harder to take issue with. Even at $70, though, the sheer breadth of changes and significance of things like the new visuals and accessibility options make this a major improvement over the remastered PS4 version.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Given the predominantly high scores TLOU Part 1 is receiving across the board, it looks like reviewers agree with my take rather than yours

Reviewers today get these games for free as well as getting special in game items, trinkets as well as early access in a lot of cases. Isn't it common consensus that all mainstream game reviews should be looked on with these major biases in mind? Have you seen the "press kits" they get for these games?

Last of Us is a great game but your quip means nothing in this day and age.

 

[Jaybe]

Reviewers today get these games for free as well as getting special in game items, trinkets as well as early access in a lot of cases. Isn't it common consensus that all mainstream game reviews should be looked on with these major biases in mind? Have you seen the "press kits" they get for these games?

Last of Us is a great game but your quip means nothing in this day and age.

Up to you what stock you put in reviewers. My response was to Tweedledee with a hyperbolic yearly release of TLOU1 take (silly for sure and ignores sports games and COD are effectively rated as if new games) and Tweedledum who wants entertainment and art rated like how Consumer Reports rates Dishwashers.