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[Ultimadrago]

Also curious about what you're referring to with Sky 3rd. I'm kind of drawing a blank.

Spoiler

Doesn't seem like a Stigma to me, though Gaius's S-craft seems very suspiciously similar. Doesn't seem like he's really met the "conditions" for one though?

It came off rather similar to me aside from some aesthetic differences and (Sky 3rd)

Spoiler

I'm not really sure what you mean when speaking of "conditions"

. I'm sure its explained in more detail within Cold Steel 2 though, and I've said it's only brief speculation on my part. Regardless, my point remains the same on the narrative differences whether they're the same or not.

As I recall, there are two NG+ scenes in CS1, and neither of them are ultimately very important.

Spoiler

You can choose to dance with no one at the festival, and going with Emma to pick up the clothes for the performance yields an additional scene with Vita.

CS2, on the other hand, has an entire NG+ exclusive book series, which is very important.

I'd recommend reading the drama CD, but it's not strictly necessary.

Oh yes, I'll be definitely starting Cold Steel 2 on a NG+.

I read the drama translation back when, but haven't checked it out in a while. I'll probably do that soon.

 

[chaosblade]

It came off rather similar to me aside from some aesthetic differences and (Sky 3rd)

Spoiler

I'm not really sure what you mean when speaking of "conditions"

. I'm sure its explained in more detail within Cold Steel 2 though, and I've said it's only brief speculation on my part. Regardless, my point remains the same on the narrative differences whether they're the same or not.

3rd/CS

Spoiler

I was referring to Gaius with the conditions. 3rd mentioned that all the Dominion that had Stigmas manifest all went through some serious trauma, but Gauis doesn't seem like he has. But maybe that's not really a Stigma, but it seems weird Falcom would go with something so visually similar only for it to not have any relation at all.

 

[Ultimadrago]

3rd/CS

Spoiler

I was referring to Gaius with the conditions. 3rd mentioned that all the Dominion that had Stigmas manifest all went through some serious trauma, but Gauis doesn't seem like he has. But maybe that's not really a Stigma, but it seems weird Falcom would go with something so visually similar only for it to not have any relation at all.

Oh, I was talking about Rean. (3rd/CS)

Spoiler

Gaius' Craft simply reminds me of his affinity to the wind. If I recall, his back etching is more detailed to symbolize wings of an angel or bird whereas Kevin's is more of an abstract symbol. In fairness, Rean doesn't have one either if we assume that all Stigma are manifested in the same fashion.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

3rd/CS

Spoiler

I was referring to Gaius with the conditions. 3rd mentioned that all the Dominion that had Stigmas manifest all went through some serious trauma, but Gauis doesn't seem like he has. But maybe that's not really a Stigma, but it seems weird Falcom would go with something so visually similar only for it to not have any relation at all.

[the 3rd, CS]

Spoiler

I'm sure Gaius would be closely related to Church shenanigans one way or the other, but what are you referring to as visually similar in Gaius's S-Craft? I can't see anything resembling Stigma at all there.

EDIT:
^^

Spoiler

Oh, the glowing hawk thingie? I am more leaning towards artistic license there. Kinda like how Alisa can't actually grow wings yet does in her S-craft.

 

[BlackLagoon]

So I wrote down a my own thoughts on the game while doing NG+, so I might as well post them

Spoiler

(I played on the Vita, I hope you'll forgive me.)

I fair bit of it is in line with what has already been posted, though there were some things about the larger conflict that bugged me.

Spoilers for the entire game:

Spoiler

Everything revolves around Rean. He solves the groups problems, he's got some sort of "special destiny/power/heritage" to save the world or whatever, he increasingly finds himself in the middle of important events and stumbling into all the important players of the country. Too many characters feel like their part in the story is designed around the need to make him look good, rather than be interesting in their own right.

Meanwhile the "other group" disappears into the void. They don't meet anyone interesting, and don't do anything of consequence aside from fucking up because Rean isn't there to help them get along.

Crow as C seemed contrived and stupid. Apparently, at the age of 18? he's been able to organize a rebellion, made alliances with a several powerful factions, became a veteran warrior with skills far beyond his peers at Thors with the dual edged blade thing and also an excellent gunslinger and sniper, came up with complicated schemes that consistently blind sided the Imperials, gathered all the secret information necessary to developed said schemes, learnt about the whole awakener thing and trained as a mech pilot, became a capable mechanic/orbal tech and fashion designer, attended enough classes at Thors to not get outright expelled, and maintained an active social life there with tons of friends. All while evading detection by the supposedly highly capable Imperial Intelligence Division and the other super perceptive individuals that hang around class VII until the end. Did I forget anything?

Also there's some interesting timing in the Roer mines. After the face off with Class VII C gets away, and then ends up somewhere where he can see what is happening and broadcast his speech before ship is sniped. Then literally 2 minutes later he's already back in the mine control room accompanying Olivert. That's 2 minutes to ditch the C getup somewhere it's not found during the subsequent investigation, get back into the main mine area, and hook up with the prince in a plausible manner, and then entering the room again in a seemingly leisurely pace. I guess we should add stage magician to Crow's list of skills.

Speaking of contrivances, why is the "evil" witch woman hosting blatantly risking her cover by hosting a local radio show? Is local radio programming of that big importance to these magic people? Can I look forward to the Trista Morning Zoo with Emma and Celine in the sequel?

The Imperials seem to come out rather badly in this. They seem behind on everything, always outsmarted and not realizing that the nobles were developing and building a "next gen" army. "Lammy" and its ilk seem to be the Empire's only "secret weapon" so far, but they're hardly a secret any more and haven't had much of an impact.

For a supposed hardass, the chancellor seemed to be very slow and careful when dealing with the constant provocations from the provincial armies. I don't see what he gained from shutting down the Bracers other than giving the nobles free reign to get up to no good in their own territories. And Irina Reinford in particular comes out as a complete chump in stark contrast to how they hyped her up, allying herself with nobles to seize control of the company and then giving them free reign to commit high treason under her nose.

The emperor seemed strangely absent from the story, in spite of ostensibly being the one in charge. He only speaks in a single scene with only 2-3 lines?

All in all I think I would have enjoyed the main conflict more if it was more a tense match between equals. Instead the Imperials are constantly playing catchup while it's Rean and Co that "foil" the Fronts schemes... except they don't because C keeps going "HAHAH THIS WAS ACTUALLY MY PLAN ALL ALONG!!!!!" at the end anyway. (And if it's really your secret plan to "fail", why would you announce this to your enemies, and why doesn't anyone pick up on this?)

Still, in spite of all this criticism, I did enjoy the game and am moving straight on to the sequel. I want to see where this goes. I guess it's one of those things where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

[Chapter 6]

This is such an unimportant scene to voice, but I'm glad they voiced it.

Spoiler

Everything revolves around Rean. He solves the groups problems, he's got some sort of "special destiny/power/heritage" to save the world or whatever, he increasingly finds himself in the middle of important events and stumbling into all the important players of the country. Too many characters feel like their part in the story is designed around the need to make him look good, rather than be interesting in their own right.

Meanwhile the "other group" disappears into the void. They don't meet anyone interesting, and don't do anything of consequence aside from fucking up because Rean isn't there to help them get along.

This is honestly my biggest gripe of the game. I think having some shifts in POV - even if we don't get to play them - would go a long way in making Class VII feel more like "a group of friends" rather than "Rean and his friends". [CS1]

Spoiler

Like, in Chapter 4 Rean barely does anything anyway that he could easily be excised from the resolution of the Fie-Laura conflict. Just put Machias and Elliot there and let some bonding that doesn't end up with "it's all thanks to you Rean" happen.

As for the contrivances... most of them are actually addressed in the sequel.

 

[PK Gaming]

Spoiler

Everything revolves around Rean. He solves the groups problems, he's got some sort of "special destiny/power/heritage" to save the world or whatever, he increasingly finds himself in the middle of important events and stumbling into all the important players of the country. Too many characters feel like their part in the story is designed around the need to make him look good, rather than be interesting in their own right.

Spoiler

This is pretty valid criticism for the most part but I don't agree with the "Too many characters feel like their part in the story is designed around the need to make him look good" part. Like, literally every single character in this game has something going for them beyond just making Rean look good. Ongoing plot threads, actual wants, defined relationships, developed backstory... Literally every character in this game exists on their own rather than just being an extension of Rean. Well everyone save for Elise, but she's a notably mediocre character all around (and she doesn't get much better). Even the NPCs bring it.

Spoiler

Crow as C seemed contrived and stupid. Apparently, at the age of 18? he's been able to organize a rebellion, made alliances with a several powerful factions, became a veteran warrior with skills far beyond his peers at Thors with the dual edged blade thing and also an excellent gunslinger and sniper, came up with complicated schemes that consistently blind sided the Imperials, gathered all the secret information necessary to developed said schemes, learnt about the whole awakener thing and trained as a mech pilot, became a capable mechanic/orbal tech and fashion designer, attended enough classes at Thors to not get outright expelled, and maintained an active social life there with tons of friends. All while evading detection by the supposedly highly capable Imperial Intelligence Division and the other super perceptive individuals that hang around class VII until the end. Did I forget anything?

Spoiler

You actually missed something incredibly important regarding Crow; he's the goddamn best there ever was, and i'll have NONE of these of criticisms. Jokes aside, I don't think your points land as well as you think they do:

1) He didn't organize the rebellion by himself. Someone else both plans and bankrolls the civil war, while Crow primarily follows orders. He's the leader of a terrorist organization at a reasonably young age, but that isn't the biggest stretch considering he's just a capable individual with a serious chip on his shoulder (and there are even more ridiculously talented individuals in this universe, so it's par for the course)
2) Literally every character is proficient with weapons that should be far above their age, so calling him out for being an expert gunslinger/dual edged wielder seems a bit nitpicky. Also training.
3) He's just that smart.
4) "Learnt about the whole awakener thing?" Vita clued him in on it (as well as helped him get through the trials).
5) 3 years spent training and mastering his mech is more than enough time
6) Capable mechanic, since when?
7) He doesn't immediately settle into school life, and iirc Angelica mentions him being fake and distant at the beginning.

Spoiler

Speaking of contrivances, why is the "evil" witch woman hosting blatantly risking her cover by hosting a local radio show? Is local radio programming of that big importance to these magic people? Can I look forward to the Trista Morning Zoo with Emma and Celine in the sequel?

Spoiler

This isn't a contrivance at all, actually. She uses magic to prevent Emma from finding out (I mean she's literally moonlighting as a radio host while using her real name. it's impossible for her not to have found ordinarily.) Think Harry Potter.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Meanwhile the "other group" disappears into the void. They don't meet anyone interesting, and don't do anything of consequence aside from fucking up because Rean isn't there to help them get along.

Spoiler

Probably my single biggest gripe with the game haha. I get that game development is a zero-sum game, and that they can't just model a bunch of locations for out of focus characters, but at least show me SOMETHING.

Or maybe use anime stills if it's too expensive.

 

[Ultimadrago]

[Chapter 6]

This is such an unimportant scene to voice, but I'm glad they voiced it.

I actually laughed hearing it. I completely forgot about that line.

 

[chaosblade]

Spoiler

All in all I think I would have enjoyed the main conflict more if it was more a tense match between equals. Instead the Imperials are constantly playing catchup while it's Rean and Co that "foil" the Fronts schemes... except they don't because C keeps going "HAHAH THIS WAS ACTUALLY MY PLAN ALL ALONG!!!!!" at the end anyway. (And if it's really your secret plan to "fail", why would you announce this to your enemies, and why doesn't anyone pick up on this?)

I agree with all the other complaints but this one did make some sense.

CS1

Spoiler

Crow and company didn't seem to want to involve or hurt civilians any more than necessary. Their goal was to kill Osborne and put an end to the reformist faction. The failed plans were basically done to make them seem scary and threatening, and then everyone breathed a sign of relief when they were presumably killed off when the helicopter got shot down in the mines.

My issue with it is why was any of it necessary at all. Unless ILF's actions were somehow related to the events going on with Crossbell, it was all excessive and unnecessary. Considering how successful ILF was with their secrecy before the announcing themselves to the world, and the fact the Imperials didn't have a good lead on Crow, he could have just as easily waited in secret for a good opportunity and sniped Osborne then.

Spoiler

This isn't a contrivance at all, actually. She uses magic to prevent Emma from finding out (I mean she's literally moonlighting as a radio host while using her real name. it's impossible for her not to have found ordinarily.) Think Harry Potter.

I don't recall this being mentioned at all. I suppose it could be implied, or

Spoiler

Emma just doesn't listen to the radio, or it's part of the NG+ scene.

 

[PK Gaming]

I agree with all the other complaints but this one did make some sense.

I don't recall this being mentioned at all. I suppose it could be implied, or

Spoiler

Emma just doesn't listen to the radio, or it's part of the NG+ scene.

Spoiler

She has memory manipulation magic. The Trista Radio's manager doesn't remember hiring Misty if you talk to him before the final battle. And I'm pretty sure Emma makes a mention of Misty ensuring that she doesn't get found out.

Could be a CS2 thing.

EDIT:

I agree with all the other complaints but this one did make some sense.

CS1

Spoiler

My issue with it is why was any of it necessary at all. Unless ILF's actions were somehow related to the events going on with Crossbell, it was all excessive and unnecessary. Considering how successful ILF was with their secrecy before the announcing themselves to the world, and the fact the Imperials didn't have a good lead on Crow, he could have just as easily waited in secret for a good opportunity and sniped Osborne then.

Spoiler

They're a literal terrorist organization with a slogan that literally says "Government to the prior form." It's not just about killing Osborne, it's about being an ever-present thorn in his side, rallying sympathizers and making a statement. The vast majority of their members take great pleasure in sticking it to the man.

 

[demidar]

I actually laughed hearing it. I completely forgot about that line.

That was probably one of the best bits of voice acting in the game so I'm glad it was voiced.

 

[BlackLagoon]

This is honestly my biggest gripe of the game. I think having some shifts in POV - even if we don't get to play them - would go a long way in making Class VII feel more like "a group of friends" rather than "Rean and his friends".

Yup, switching between two groups as approach the same discovery in parallel would have been much more narratively interesting.

Spoiler

[1) He didn't organize the rebellion by himself. Someone else both plans and bankrolls the civil war, while Crow primarily follows orders. He's the leader of a terrorist organization at a reasonably young age, but that isn't the biggest stretch considering he's just a capable individual with a serious chip on his shoulder (and there are even more ridiculously talented individuals in this universe, so it's par for the course)

Spoiler

I don't think that's entirely clear. If he's just taking orders from the nobles, then why the heck not just trash class VIII and blow up the Crossbell meeting with the big canons. The aristocrats, jaegers and provincial armies seem ruthless and uncaring. Avoiding civilian casualties is much more specific to the Liberation Front and Crow. During CS1, the two groups seem more like partners out of convenience, rather than one being in direct command of the other.

Spoiler

2) Literally every character is proficient with weapons that should be far above their age, so calling him out for being an expert gunslinger/dual edged wielder seems a bit nitpicky. Also training.

Spoiler

It's nitpicky to point out that while most of Class VII worked hard for years to become skilled at a single weapon, he's not only on their level with pistols but also found the time to additionally far, far surpass with a second and third weapon? Like that's the whole point, when did he have the time to do all this?

Spoiler

5) 3 years spent training and mastering his mech is more than enough time

Spoiler

He got it 3 years ago. During these 3 years he has, as I've tried to point out, had a few other things on his plate, which is where the problem lies.

Oh, and he sings during the concert encore. Oh, and he also played guitar during the previous festival concert. I did forget something. More things mad skillz Crow somehow had time to learn. Maybe they should just go full on Macross and have him control Ordine with sick shreds.

Spoiler

6) Capable mechanic, since when?

Spoiler

As I recall, he's said to a have a fair bit of technical knowhow he's given responsibility for the rigging and setup for the concert. I want to say there's also a little conversation during the festival where George talks about sending him out to fix some malfunctioning orbal device.

Spoiler

7) He doesn't immediately settle into school life, and iirc Angelica mentions him being fake and distant at the beginning.

Spoiler

Yet by the time the game takes place everybody seemingly knows and likes him (even random kids in Trista), and is known for spending a lot of time slacking off and socializing.

Spoiler

This isn't a contrivance at all, actually. She uses magic to prevent Emma from finding out (I mean she's literally moonlighting as a radio host while using her real name. it's impossible for her not to have found ordinarily.) Think Harry Potter.

]

CS2:

Spoiler

I got to that part in CS2. LOL MAGIC is a dumb reason, and still doesn't explain why she signed up to be a radio host in the first place. If she just wants to spy on Rean there are a million more LOL MAGIC ways she could have done that which would have been less conspicuous and more flexible and useful. Still a dumb contrivance.

 

[PK Gaming]

Spoiler

I don't think that's entirely clear. If he's just taking orders from the nobles, then why the heck not just trash class VIII and blow up the Crossbell meeting with the big canons. The aristocrats, jaegers and provincial armies seem ruthless and uncaring. Avoiding civilian casualties is much more specific to the Liberation Front and Crow. During CS1, the two groups seem more like partners out of convenience, rather than one being in direct command of the other.

Spoiler

They're clearly doing their own thing, but a significant part of the plan came from the Noble Alliance (not to mention the funding). Destabilizing the country and overthrowing Osborne is Duke Cayenne's creation. ILF's goals align, but it's not like Crow randomly decided "man, I want to fuck over Osborne, and I know exactly how to do it!" Cayenne was the main benefactor.

Spoiler

It's nitpicky to point out that while most of Class VII worked hard for years to become skilled at a single weapon, he's not only on their level with pistols but also found the time to additionally far, far surpass with a second and third weapon? Like that's the whole point, when did he have the time to do all this?

Spoiler

It's beyond nitpicky. How do kids become skilled at using a single weapon? How do the busy kids even manage it? How does Laura lift her sword? How does Fie aim with her gun swords? Even if they spent their entire life trying to master it, it's still a bit of a stretch expect a bunch of kids to be proficient with a bunch of deadly weapons. The answer, is that it's an incidental aspect of the characters (with the obvious exception of Rean and Laura), and not particularly something worth examining. I imagine Crow was always proficient with guns and spent 3 years learning how wield his dual bladed artifact... I guess? It's not really important.

Spoiler

He got it 3 years ago. During these 3 years he has, as I've tried to point out, had a few other things on his plate, which is where the problem lies.

Spoiler

Crow: You've been piloting a divine knight for one day. I've been using mine for 3 years.

Literal verbatim. It doesn't get much more clearer than that.

Spoiler

Oh, and he sings during the concert encore. Oh, and he also played guitar during the previous festival concert. I did forget something. More things mad skillz Crow somehow had time to learn. Maybe they should just go full on Macross and have him control Ordine with sick shreds.

Spoiler

None of that is a big deal, lol. Class VII learn how to play and sing in just a months time. Compared to them, he took place in last year's concert AND hada month's worth of preparing, this isn't egregious.

Spoiler

As I recall, he's said to a have a fair bit of technical knowhow he's given responsibility for the rigging and setup for the concert. I want to say there's also a little conversation during the festival where George talks about sending him out to fix some malfunctioning orbal device.

Spoiler

It's easier to assume he followed George's lead on the rigging rather than him having the technical knowhow to do so.

Spoiler

Yet by the time the game takes place everybody seemingly knows and likes him (even random kids in Trista), and is known for spending a lot of time slacking off and socializing.

Spoiler

Because a year has gone by, and he manages to eventually settle into the role of a high school student. This is one of his main dilemmas, since he's clearly distraught over having to betray his friends.

CS2:

Spoiler

I got to that part in CS2. LOL MAGIC is a dumb reason, and still doesn't explain why she signed up to be a radio host in the first place. If she just wants to spy on Rean there are a million more LOL MAGIC ways she could have done that which would have been less conspicuous and more flexible and useful. Still a dumb contrivance.

CS2:

Spoiler

If you think she did it to spy on Rean then you have a profound misunderstanding of her character. Vita is irreverent and spontaneous. She moonlights as an opera singer and a radio host for no real reason other than the fact that she can and enjoys doing so. She does this all while being the 2nd Anguis, aka someone who is at the very top of the an international crime syndicate.

She's a bit of a showoff, but she's a boss bitch and she knows it.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

CS2:

Spoiler

I got to that part in CS2. LOL MAGIC is a dumb reason, and still doesn't explain why she signed up to be a radio host in the first place. If she just wants to spy on Rean there are a million more LOL MAGIC ways she could have done that which would have been less conspicuous and more flexible and useful. Still a dumb contrivance.

Spoiler

At this point, we can take into account that a lot of Ouroboros's members are showy, larger-than-life characters who do their things some certain ways because they find it fun as much as - or even more than - they find it necessary.

 

[claytonlee101]

Ugh, despite playing through the game with a guide, I seemed to have missed an Imperial Chronicle issue. Is it like the Trails game where I can simply reload a past save and it will 'register' as being obtained? No progression bar on the achievement page points me towards a No though :/

 

[Jiraiza]

Spoiler

Everything revolves around Rean. He solves the groups problems, he's got some sort of "special destiny/power/heritage" to save the world or whatever, he increasingly finds himself in the middle of important events and stumbling into all the important players of the country. Too many characters feel like their part in the story is designed around the need to make him look good, rather than be interesting in their own right.

You're going to have a field day with Rean in CS2 at this rate. I don't think Rean was all that offensive in CS1, but my opinion of him dropped pretty badly in CS2. The whole bonding system certainly didn't help on that front, either. And yeah, completely omitting the other group and only having plot relevant stuff happen with Rean's group is just asinine. Then again, the Sky and Crossbell games are pretty guilty of this, too.

Though I think my biggest gripe with Rean is how they dump so much crap on him instead of trying to spread out the characterization across different characters. Absolutely no constraint on the writers' part in that regard. I mean,

Spoiler

ogre powers, pilot of a mecha, practitioner of the Eight Leaves One Blade style, leader of Class VII, helper of the student council (because he apparently has zero interests outside of class), and even more junk in CS2.

It gets ridiculous. The writers are abusing the position of MC pretty badly, to say the least.

 

[Ascheroth]

Ugh, despite playing through the game with a guide, I seemed to have missed an Imperial Chronicle issue. Is it like the Trails game where I can simply reload a past save and it will 'register' as being obtained? No progression bar on the achievement page points me towards a No though :/

I think you can get them in the Pawn Shop if you missed any. Just reload to refresh Micht's inventory until he has it.

 

[Kvik]

Sadly the pawn shop RNG didn't include the Mishy straps items in its item table. I could've sworn I bought it earlier in the game, now I missed out on one of those sweet Zemurian ore shard. orz

 

[chaosblade]

I never figured out how the pawn shop worked. One time I saw the chapter of the book I missed in there, but other than that it was always the same three items every time I checked.

 

[Burning Justice]

I never figured out how the pawn shop worked. One time I saw the chapter of the book I missed in there, but other than that it was always the same three items every time I checked.

Certain missable items, like books, can randomly be found at the pawn shop if you missed them. Not sure exactly what can found there, but I know that anything you didn't miss won't show up there.

The pawn shop also can randomly sell ingredients that monsters drop, and that's all that will show up if you didn't miss anything.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Spoiler

They're clearly doing their own thing, but a significant part of the plan came from the Noble Alliance (not to mention the funding). Destabilizing the country and overthrowing Osborne is Duke Cayenne's creation. ILF's goals align, but it's not like Crow randomly decided "man, I want to fuck over Osborne, and I know exactly how to do it!" Cayenne was the main benefactor.

CS2:

Spoiler

I just got to the part in Nord where they seem to make a plot point out of the Noble forces being unaware of exactly how the ILF attacked the Watchtower. Unless that turns out to be false, we're back to my point that the ILF, and by extension C, must have spent a fair bit of time gathering their own intelligence and planning their own operations.

Spoiler

It's beyond nitpicky. How do kids become skilled at using a single weapon? How do the busy kids even manage it? How does Laura lift her sword? How does Fie aim with her gun swords? Even if they spent their entire life trying to master it, it's still a bit of a stretch expect a bunch of kids to be proficient with a bunch of deadly weapons. The answer, is that it's an incidental aspect of the characters (with the obvious exception of Rean and Laura), and not particularly something worth examining. I imagine Crow was always proficient with guns and spent 3 years learning how wield his dual bladed artifact... I guess? It's not really important.

Spoiler

Jeez, I'm talking about internal consistency. It game clearly establishes that it's perfectly possible for teens their age to reach their capabilities. This extends beyond class VII, as seen by Patrick and the fencers, and Angelica. Fie and Millium are aberrations being younger, but they're also given clear and specific reasons why that is and that they in exchange did not have the normal childhoods the others had.

When we look at individuals who's combat abilities are shown to exceed class VII - the instructors, Vulcan, Scarlet, Klaus... They are all quite a bit older, having gained their power through far more years of full time combat experience and training. This goes all the way to Viscount Arseid who's statwise the most powerful human in the game, and has spent a decades dedicating himself to his craft and gained a wide reputation as a legendary warrior.

While seemingly "holding back" and planning to lose, C in the Roer Mines is the second most powerful human you fight in the game. And they give no reason for how that came to be, not even a stupid, shitty one like Vita has his him hopped up on Magic Meth or something. They just decided to arbitrarily make him more powerful than everyone, and that's poor writing.

Spoiler

Crow: You've been piloting a divine knight for one day. I've been using mine for 3 years.

Literal verbatim. It doesn't get much more clearer than that.

Spoiler

Sigh. Are you intentionally missing my point here? That line is sloppy and nonsensical, because he literally - literally - couldn't have been dedicating himself to training with the mech much in those 3 years with all the other stuff he's been up.

Spoiler

None of that is a big deal, lol. Class VII learn how to play and sing in just a months time. Compared to them, he took place in last year's concert AND hada month's worth of preparing, this isn't egregious.

Spoiler

It's easier to assume he followed George's lead on the rigging rather than him having the technical knowhow to do so.

Spoiler

I couldn't find the concert setup line, but during festival Towa asks him and George to come fix a broken orbal stove. And anyway, regardless of whether he knows enough to fix stuff on his own, or just helps George, it's yet another thing he has somehow had time for.

And that's, again, the point. You're missing the forest for the trees. His combat ability aside, these things aren't egregious on their own, but put together his timeline is absurd compared to the other characters. And that hurts the story, it hurts the revelation that he is C, because rather than using clever writing and misdirection to conceal it, they just went fuck it and had him play by entirely different set rules than the rest of the cast.

CS2:

Spoiler

If you think she did it to spy on Rean then you have a profound misunderstanding of her character. Vita is irreverent and spontaneous. She moonlights as an opera singer and a radio host for no real reason other than the fact that she can and enjoys doing so.

Spoiler

Oh, so she just does random dumb shit for no reason. The marks of top tier characterization!

Spoiler

At this point, we can take into account that a lot of Ouroboros's members are showy, larger-than-life characters who do their things some certain ways because they find it fun as much as - or even more than - they find it necessary.

Spoiler

I would purport that hosting a local radio program in a small town isn't all that showy.

 

[Thoraxes]

CS2:

Spoiler

If you think she did it to spy on Rean then you have a profound misunderstanding of her character. Vita is irreverent and spontaneous. She moonlights as an opera singer and a radio host for no real reason other than the fact that she can and enjoys doing so. She does this all while being the 2nd Anguis, aka someone who is at the very top of the an international crime syndicate.

She's a bit of a showoff, but she's a boss bitch and she knows it.

Spoiler

At this point, we can take into account that a lot of Ouroboros's members are showy, larger-than-life characters who do their things some certain ways because they find it fun as much as - or even more than - they find it necessary.

CS1 and CS2 spoilers Uh, there's like, a massively huge reason as to why she's there CS1 and CS2 spoilers

Spoiler

as a radio host. She knows Emma is going to be there to observe an awakener through the trial system, and that a divine knight rests there, which is part of the sole goal of the plan. If none of that was ordained to happen in Trista, she'd never have been there in the first place. Not to mention her awakener was there as well, and he runs a pretty interesting organization. And if you take CS2 into account, it's likely she was a liaison between ILF/Ouroboros/Noble Factions as well. Trista is a great location for coordinating all of that. As to why she was Misty at the station instead of Vita, clearly it's because of Emma.

Like, actually doing those things were just cover for what she was up to, but doesn't mean you can't have fun while doing it. And it doesn't mean that she just did it on a whim. She was 100% there with purpose towards the plan.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

CS1 and CS2 spoilers Uh, there's like, a massively huge reason as to why she's there CS1 and CS2 spoilers

Spoiler

as a radio host. She knows Emma is going to be there to observe an awakener through the trial system, and that a divine knight rests there, which is part of the sole goal of the plan. If none of that was ordained to happen in Trista, she'd never have been there in the first place. Not to mention her awakener was there as well, and he runs a pretty interesting organization. And if you take CS2 into account, it's likely she was a liaison between ILF/Ouroboros/Noble Factions as well.

Like, actually doing those things were just cover for what she was up to, but doesn't mean you can't have fun while doing it or that she just did it on a whim.

[CS2]

Spoiler

I am aware. But this line of discussion is specifically putting into question the logic of her specifically becoming a radio host to do all those.

CS2:

Spoiler

Oh, so she just does random dumb shit for no reason. The marks of top tier characterization!

Spoiler

I would purport that hosting a local radio program in a small town isn't all that showy.

[CS1]

Spoiler

I feel like this is splitting hair too much. As if Blueblanc is less a showy person because he disguised himself as a mere tram conductor. No, he's showy because even though there are more efficient and effective methods to observe Class VII, he instead chose the position where he could potentially inflict the most surprise in a theatrical manner to the people of his interests, just like what Vita did during the Heimdallr broadcast. Nevertheless, you criticized her move as being too conspicuous, and now you say it isn't showy. Come on.

Also, solid characterization doesn't mean people doing the logical, most effective thing all the time, you know? Vita became a radio host because she's whimsical and found it fun. She took the risk because she's confident and powerfu enough to afford it. Those are integral parts of her character, yar?

 

[Loz246789]

In regards to Vita,

Spoiler

I hardly think her being a radio host/opera singer because she enjoys it is the mark of bad characterisation. Machias plays chess, yet I don't complain that his chess playing skills don't fit into the overall narrative much.
It's a thing she does, that allows her to achieve her objectives (such as keeping tabs on Rean and being able to talk to him if necessary), that she enjoys, and that also probably pays the bills. Why wouldn't she lead this double life?
As for the whole magic explanation, I don't know about anyone else but I found it was *thoroughly* foreshadowed throughout the game that Emma was magical in some way, she knew Vita at least indirectly, and that Vita was in turn using magic to avoid her, yet still be able to talk to Rean. If you take Emma for the motorcycle scene, this becomes even more blatant. (It's been a while, but I think Emma spots the raven thing, runs after it in a totally not suspicious way, and OH WOW VITA APPEARS TO TALK TO REAN AS SOON AS SHE'S OFF SCREEN, WHAT A COINCIDENCE. And then Vita leaves just before Emma comes back. They're not very subtle with this plot point and how it works specifically.)
Hardly a LOL MAGIC explanation, unless you're against magic in general in the story.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Spoiler

I know that. But this line of conversation is discussing why she do that while being a radio host, because if the goal is observing Class VII members, there are more effective and inconspicuous methods to take.

Spoiler

I have a hard time thinking of a more effective strategy to be honest.

It pretty much fooled everybody, and she was in the number one place to receive gossip and have eyes on the campus without anyone noticing.

One thing that confused me a bit about the ending of the game and CS2
(CS1/2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Random soldat soldier says of the Ashen Knight that "it shouldn't be able to move yet." Does that mean they weren't expecting Rean to be an Awakener or that they were going to capture Rean? Or were they hoping just to take the Knight and skedaddle? Also, Crow says he's going to "bust up" Valimar because "it will get in our way down the line", but I thought that they needed Valimar as part of their grand plan of recreating the civil war? Why try and destroy it and imply that it will get in your way?
It sounds like Falcom was rushing a bit too much at the end there when writing the scenario.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Spoiler

I have a hard time thinking of a more effective strategy to be honest.

It pretty much fooled everybody, and she was in the number one place to receive gossip and have eyes on the campus without anyone noticing.

The spoiler tag. The spoiler tag in your quote of my poooost.

Also, this is kinda a too CS2-centric talk in a CS1 thread? Maybe we should bring it to the OT.

 

[Loz246789]

One thing that confused me a bit about the ending of the game and CS2
(CS1/2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Random soldat soldier says of the Ashen Knight that "it shouldn't be able to move yet." Does that mean they weren't expecting Rean to be an Awakener or that they were going to capture Rean? Or were they hoping just to take the Knight and skedaddle? Also, Crow says he's going to "bust up" Valimar because "it will get in our way down the line", but I thought that they needed Valimar as part of their grand plan of recreating the civil war? Why try and destroy it and imply that it will get in your way?
It sounds like Falcom was rushing a bit too much at the end there when writing the scenario.

It's been a little while, so this is just mild speculation, but

Spoiler

I'd guess in regards to the Soldat soldier, they were just told "btw they've found a giant robot/the ashen knight/whatever they'd deem necessary for a random grunt, but don't worry, they're still not entirely sure what it is at this point. If we act quickly, it should be a non issue."
As for Crow's lines, uhh. I guess he can't exactly say "don't worry Rean, we'll leave your giant robot alone, feel free to do whatever", so he roughs it up a bit in the final battle of CS1, and counts on Rean+Valimar getting away?
This ultimately does leave them out of commission for the early parts of the war too.

EDIT: Yeah this is a bit CS2ish now.

 

[Jiraiza]

The spoiler tag. The spoiler tag in your quote of my poooost.

Also, this is kinda a too CS2-centric talk in a CS1 thread? Maybe we should bring it to the OT.

Yeah, was starting to wonder why there's so much CS2 talk all of a sudden. Gotta hold yourselves back on that, guys. Pun totally intended.

 

[Ultimadrago]

All these CS2 spoilers are just making me curious.

 

[Shake Appeal]

All these CS2 spoilers are just making me curious.

It's been a little over a week(?) since I finished CS1, and I still find myself refreshing the Falcom reddit and the xSEED facebook for any hint of the sequel.

 

[Jiraiza]

All these CS2 spoilers are just making me curious.

It's been a little over a week(?) since I finished CS1, and I still find myself refreshing the Falcom reddit and the xSEED facebook for any hint of the sequel.

The game's only one PS3 system and PS3 disc away! You know you want it.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

this looks hilariously similar the original OTs. Black bars everywhere. Not a big enough community to have a separate spoiler thread, too much story to not talk about.

And yea, waiting to play CS1 until a week before CS2 came out was great. Much better than the 9 month wait between beating FC and playing SC, and my wait there wasnt even close to some peoples.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The game's only one PS3 system and PS3 disc away! You know you want it.

Play it at sub-1440p/60fps without Turbo mode and SSAO? Excuse you.

 

[Loz246789]

For what it's worth, the wait for the original CS2 localisation was pure torture too. The Trails english fanbase isn't particularly large to begin with, but because Sky SC had only just been released, most discussion inevitably involved people who had played the games in Japanese, or at least read spoilers. It was a nightmare.

...Will keep CS2 talk to a minimum though.

 

[Ultimadrago]

The game's only one PS3 system and PS3 disc away! You know you want it.

Hah, funnily enough, I already own CS2 on PS3, but haven't opened it. I replayed CS1 on PC just to move my lore to that platform instead. I will hold on!

It's been a little over a week(?) since I finished CS1, and I still find myself refreshing the Falcom reddit and the xSEED facebook for any hint of the sequel.

I hear ya! I'm playing other games and trying to forget about it for now. I'm hoping it makes the wait feel shorter eventually.

 

[PK Gaming]

CS2:

Spoiler

I just got to the part in Nord where they seem to make a plot point out of the Noble forces being unaware of exactly how the ILF attacked the Watchtower. Unless that turns out to be false, we're back to my point that the ILF, and by extension C, must have spent a fair bit of time gathering their own intelligence and planning their own operations.

Spoiler

None of that contradicts the greater point that I was trying to make though. The plan to destabilize the country came from the Noble Alliance. The IFL were one of the ways they helped carry that out, but for the most part they both did their own thing. That doesn't mean they didn't cooperate period, because there was undeniably some degree of coordination given the fact that they literally took over the capital together duringCS1's ending.

Spoiler

Jeez, I'm talking about internal consistency. It game clearly establishes that it's perfectly possible for teens their age to reach their capabilities. This extends beyond class VII, as seen by Patrick and the fencers, and Angelica. Fie and Millium are aberrations being younger, but they're also given clear and specific reasons why that is and that they in exchange did not have the normal childhoods the others had.

When we look at individuals who's combat abilities are shown to exceed class VII - the instructors, Vulcan, Scarlet, Klaus... They are all quite a bit older, having gained their power through far more years of full time combat experience and training. This goes all the way to Viscount Arseid who's statwise the most powerful human in the game, and has spent a decades dedicating himself to his craft and gained a wide reputation as a legendary warrior.

While seemingly "holding back" and planning to lose, C in the Roer Mines is the second most powerful human you fight in the game. And they give no reason for how that came to be, not even a stupid, shitty one like Vita has his him hopped up on Magic Meth or something. They just decided to arbitrarily make him more powerful than everyone, and that's poor writing.

Spoiler

That point is untenable in a series where children are powerful enough to defeat grown men, as well as give some of the most powerful people in the setting a run for their money. Crow is powerful at a relatively young age, but how is that unreasonable when class VII become absurdly powerful in the span of a year? How is that unreasonable when the previous set of games have always had the protagonists punching far above their weight class (Estelle literally goes from being rookie to a fairly capable combatant in 2~3 months and fights some of the strongest characters in the setting). The argument that Crow couldn't get powerful, despite the fact that he went through his own trials (with one of the most powerful characters Vita as his partner) and presumably got into his fair share of obstacles is absurd. Oh and he had a wide assortment of powerful gadgets at his disposal which certainly contributed a great deal to his combat prowess.

Spoiler

Sigh. Are you intentionally missing my point here? That line is sloppy and nonsensical, because he literally - literally - couldn't have been dedicating himself to training with the mech much in those 3 years with all the other stuff he's been up.

Spoiler

No, you're the one that's completely off base here. Divine Knight pilots gain a full understanding of their mech's controls when they synch up with their Divine Knight. This is explicitly showcased at the end of CS1. So with that in mind, how the hell is 3 yearsnot enough time to get proficient at piloting a Divine Knight. No seriously, Crow being good at using Ordine after that much time gives you pause, even though Rean (as you'll see) gets pretty good at using his over the span of several months? It is not even remotely unreasonable to assume that Crow would get proficient in 3 years, even if he couldn't take it out and practice it every day. The fact that you think his line is sloppy and nonsensical in spite of everything honestly pretty laughable.

Spoiler

I couldn't find the concert setup line, but during festival Towa asks him and George to come fix a broken orbal stove. And anyway, regardless of whether he knows enough to fix stuff on his own, or just helps George, it's yet another thing he has somehow had time for.

Spoiler

Again, not too difficult to fix something if one of the smartest engineer's ever has your back. And no, it's not "yet another thing." There was blatant downtime in between his various operations, and he spent most of it playing the part of your typical student.

Spoiler

And that's, again, the point. You're missing the forest for the trees. His combat ability aside, these things aren't egregious on their own, but put together his timeline is absurd compared to the other characters. And that hurts the story, it hurts the revelation that he is C, because rather than using clever writing and misdirection to conceal it, they just went fuck it and had him play by entirely different set rules than the rest of the cast.

Spoiler

That's a bit rich, coming from you. You've zero'd into the fact that Crow can use multiple weapons proficiently as a legitimate plot issue, when it's barely dissonant in a universe filled with extraordinarily talented people. He's had to multitask, but he's also had a considerable amount of time to prepare (which you refuse to accept), the backing of one of the most powerful individuals in the setting as well as the Noble Alliance bankrolling him. Like, you've accepted that Fie's strength is justifiable because she lived with a bunch of mercs, but Crow becoming strong by overcoming trials with Vita is a stretch? What? That's not even getting into his reason for the doing the things he's done. His motivation alone puts him over most characters.

Spoiler

Oh, so she just does random dumb shit for no reason. The marks of top tier characterization!

Spoiler

I'm sorry to break this to you, but people don't act according to cost effective diagrams. Like oh man, a woman that's led a restrictive lifestyle for most of her life cuts loose and manages to enjoy it for the first time. So random, I can't possibly fathom why she would do this.

Spoiler

I would purport that hosting a local radio program in a small town isn't all that showy.

Spoiler

But opera singing isn't? Lol.

Spoiler

Ultimately, I think you're reading too much into what is obviously a fantastical setting filled with ridiculously capable people who are (dare I say it) capable of performing legendary feats. That isn't to say that Crow's character is flawless or anything, but he is nowhere near as flawed as you're making him out to be.

 

[Squire]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

 

[Niks]

It's been a little over a week(?) since I finished CS1, and I still find myself refreshing the Falcom reddit and the xSEED facebook for any hint of the sequel.

Just finished the game.

Am I crazy or I heard rumors about December for CS2?
Anyway...

Loved the game, the characters (main and secondary) (even with all their flaws and cliches) but most of all... the world building. I also loved the references here and there to the TitS arc.
Sure , it has plenty of flaws, but as someone earlier said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Cant wait for CS2. Also any one knows of a NG+ file with all 15 NG+ points?

 

[Psxphile]

Am I crazy or I heard rumors about December for CS2?

A while ago Durante mentioned on Steam forums that maybe possibly the earliest release for the PC version would be December. Since then I think it was clarified on the Xseed forums not to expect it until early 2018.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Cant wait for CS2. Also any one knows of a NG+ file with all 15 NG+ points?

I loaded up a single NG+ file and cheat engined it to infinite.

 

[Durante]

A while ago Durante mentioned on Steam forums that maybe possibly the earliest release for the PC version would be December. Since then I think it was clarified on the Xseed forums not to expect it until early 2018.

To clarify, what I said was that it's completely impossible for CS2 to release before December, not that it will release in December.

Anyway, patch 1.3.5 is out, and among other things it should help people that are experiencing sporadic crashes on Windows 10.

 

[SephLuis]

Spoiler

I don't think that's entirely clear. If he's just taking orders from the nobles, then why the heck not just trash class VIII and blow up the Crossbell meeting with the big canons. The aristocrats, jaegers and provincial armies seem ruthless and uncaring.

Everyone answered everything, but let me add two cents on this. They certainly tried to do that, but failed. This is also one of the arcs in CS and it relates to some spoilers in Zero/Ao.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

this replay is making me appreciate CS1 a lot more than I did before. There are a lot of little characterization touches that I had forgotten about such as

Spoiler

Jusis and his family situation being such a sore spot to where he snaps at Alisa for complaining about her mom when "at least she came and introduced herself"

and with Rean being thrust into the mediator role for group spats

Spoiler

resulting in him not really doing anything to solve them. Jusis and Machias relationship starts to heal because Machias overhears a conversation between Jusis and Rean, and Laura and Fie get over their bump thanks to Elliot talking about his issues and opening up.

Replay has also been funny with retreading Elliot's story here because (CS2 SPOILERS FOR ELLIOT)

Spoiler

his whole strained relationship with his father build up in CS1 turns out to be mostly one sided on HIS side come CS2, as his father is the biggest doting father ever.

Also on Laura and Fie

Spoiler

I remember disliking that whole spat in CS1 when I first played it. Laura felt like she was just being dumb and her final explanation just came of as "uhh what". However on this replay it clicked with me better and instead of Laura coming off as dumb, she comes off as immature, which feels like the intent.

 

[obeast]

This is arguably a bit off-topic, but I've just (almost - I'm at the epilogue) finished CS 2, since I couldn't stomach waiting for the PC version, and while it isn't a perfect game, I think it fits nicely with CS1. CS1 is very episodic, and gives you a sense of a the daily routines of a "normal" alternate-world high school existence. In CS2, the stakes ramp way up, and the plot becomes far less episodic, even as you revisit many of the same areas and interact with the same characters. But it all works much better because CS1 established this baseline for how the students' lives are meant to operate, so when the shit really hits the fan in CS2 you have a point of reference that makes it all seem more consequential.

Really, they're like two pieces of the same game, and not just because CS2 reuses a ton of assets from the first game. CS1 establishes routines, and CS2 shows what happens when the routines are disrupted. Neither would work as well without the other.

 

[Loz246789]

This is arguably a bit off-topic, but I've just (almost - I'm at the epilogue) finished CS 2, since I couldn't stomach waiting for the PC version, and while it isn't a perfect game, I think it fits nicely with CS1. CS1 is very episodic, and gives you a sense of a the daily routines of a "normal" alternate-world high school existence. In CS2, the stakes ramp way up, and the plot becomes far less episodic, even as you revisit many of the same areas and interact with the same characters. But it all works much better because CS1 established this baseline for how the students' lives are meant to operate, so when the shit really hits the fan in CS2 you have a point of reference that makes it all seem more consequential.

Really, they're like two pieces of the same game, and not just because CS2 reuses a ton of assets from the first game. CS1 establishes routines, and CS2 shows what happens when the routines are disrupted. Neither would work as well without the other.

One thing I love about the trails series as a whole, is that every game gets retroactively a little bit better whenever you play a new entry. The characters keep developing, you keep learning a bit more about the world, and there's generally a lot of "Oh, so *that's* why they did it that way".

Obviously, this mainly applies to the direct sequels like CS1 to CS2, but there's also a lot of connections to the other games too. It's pretty great.

 

[PK Gaming]

this replay is making me appreciate CS1 a lot more than I did before. There are a lot of little characterization touches that I had forgotten about such as

Spoiler

Jusis and his family situation being such a sore spot to where he snaps at Alisa for complaining about her mom when "at least she came and introduced herself"

and with Rean being thrust into the mediator role for group spats

Spoiler

resulting in him not really doing anything to solve them. Jusis and Machias relationship starts to heal because Machias overhears a conversation between Jusis and Rean, and Laura and Fie get over their bump thanks to Elliot talking about his issues and opening up.

Replay has also been funny with retreading Elliot's story here because (CS2 SPOILERS FOR ELLIOT)

Spoiler

his whole strained relationship with his father build up in CS1 turns out to be mostly one sided on HIS side come CS2, as his father is the biggest doting father ever.

Also on Laura and Fie

Spoiler

I remember disliking that whole spat in CS1 when I first played it. Laura felt like she was just being dumb and her final explanation just came of as "uhh what". However on this replay it clicked with me better and instead of Laura coming off as dumb, she comes off as immature, which feels like the intent.

Yeah, I think the "Rean solves everything for everyone" takes are a bit overblown. CS has some overt flaws, but there's a lot of great stuff baked into the experience.

 

[preta]

Cross-posting from the series thread - street date's been broken for CSIII. Watch out for spoilers.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Cross-posting from the series thread - street date's been broken for CSIII. Watch out for spoilers.

Wow, that is really early for a street date break.

 

[Psxphile]

Anyway, patch 1.3.5 is out, and among other things it should help people that are experiencing sporadic crashes on Windows 10.

Hm, doesn't seem to help my situation any. Still getting crashes whilst walking outside in Final Chapter during

Spoiler

the school festival

. Only now with some weird controller issue involving analog control sticks acting a little wonky. Shame.

Back to Ys.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Also on Laura and Fie

Spoiler

I remember disliking that whole spat in CS1 when I first played it. Laura felt like she was just being dumb and her final explanation just came of as "uhh what". However on this replay it clicked with me better and instead of Laura coming off as dumb, she comes off as immature, which feels like the intent.

[CS1]

Spoiler

The Laura and Fie situation is a very low-key, introspective conflict as far as JRPGs are concerned and thus became my favorite due to the sheer rarity of it. I'm glad people are coming around on it.

Yeah, I think the "Rean solves everything for everyone" takes are a bit overblown. CS has some overt flaws, but there's a lot of great stuff baked into the experience.

I think it feels that way because everyone thanks Rean and repeats how great and instrumental he is in resolving the whole things.