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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

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At least Mako is at a place where he belongs. Under his desk. Although he might not even have that considering what happened to Republic City.
He'll sleep in the rubble then. Anything has to be better than seeing your two exes make out. Even I haven't experienced that one.
judging by his character growth, he's probably going to move on.
If he does he's definitely a better man for it.
 
X

Xpike

Unconfirmed Member
Or the part where Satsuki joins the supposed date between Ryuko and Mako. KLK doesn't have the network restrictions that LoK yet LoK was less ambiguous with its ending

eh, i saw that as being a date some months after Mako and Ryuko start dating, so why not have your gf's sister join in the fun?
 

Daemul

Member
judging by his character growth, he's probably going to move on.

You'd like to think so, but this sort of thing is an ego crusher. I like to think I'd laugh it off and joke(
as if, I'd be delighted >.>
), "At least they didn't end up with other dudes", but I'm not sure how I'd really react in that situation.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
eh, i saw that as being a date some months after Mako and Ryuko start dating, so why not have your gf's sister join in the fun?

If it's a couple months after Mako and Ryuko have been dating how come Gamagoori nor the rest of the Elite Four knew? see the ambiguity? For an anime that explicitly showed mother-daughter incest/rape, the relatively meager 'clues' for the Mako+Ryuko pairing is laughable.
 
You'd like to think so, but this sort of thing is an ego crusher. I like to think I'd laugh it off and joke(
as if, I'd be delighted >.>
), "At least they didn't end up with other dudes", but I'm not sure how I'd really react in that situation.
This is probably the only way to react to it:
mr-lahey-is-a-fucking-drunk-o.gif
 
X

Xpike

Unconfirmed Member
If it's a couple months after Mako and Ryuko have been dating how come Gamagoori nor the rest of the Elite Four knew? see the ambiguity? For an anime that explicitly showed mother-daughter incest/rape, the relatively meager 'clues' for the Mako+Ryuko pairing is laughable.

yeah, trigger made everyone confused and then decided to not answer anything about it at all on the OVA.
 
yeah, trigger made everyone confused and then decided to not answer anything about it at all on the OVA.
Yeah that OVA really should've been to conclude everything, not some stupid action sequence thing with an unworthy enemy. It's like they had no confidence in the personalities of the characters to carry it.
 

Omikaru

Member
Mako was a copy of Zuko without the interesting backstory and plot.

Why is this just now occurring to me?

When I was still making the Korra Book 3 OT, before I self-destructed and took a 6 month leave of absence, my plan for Mako's character profile in the OT was going to be a cardboard cutout of Zuko (with a cheap little dropshadow and a cardboard support sticking out of the back of him). I was going to totally deadpan it and not acknowledge what I'd done for the whole season, and only change it if he got better as a character.
 

Lethe82

Banned
That's my feeling on the matter. I thought about the hints they were giving out -- at first interpreting them as friendship with a slight nod to the Korrasami shippers -- and it really clicks for me when I take off my hetero-goggles. Plus with the way the relationship was portrayed -- as if they were just at the start of a romantic journey together (both literally in the spirit world, and figuratively) -- I thought the relative suddenness and not-explicitness of it was tonally perfect.

Considering the limits on what they could show imposed by the network, and the fact that they had severely time constrained screen time, I think they did a good job of it. If they made more of a buildup to it, the usual suspects would be groaning that they diverged from the main plot too much to focus on the romance (a common criticism of Book 1).

It's lose-lose in some respects, but a winner for me. :3

I feel like the 'you were just looking at it through a hereto lens' isn't a valid statement. In fact it seems lightly (unintentionally no doubt) misogynistic since what we did see of Korra and Asami interacting for say 97% of the series was indistinguishable from platonic friendship with no prior hints at bi-sexuality from either character even in a subtle or hypothetical fashion.

So if a watcher was blind sided by it, it's not because they were viewer it through a hetero lens, it's because they expected if there was a romantic relationship that the means used to convey it would no be through interactions that seemed entirely innocuous as two girls being friends for 99% of the series.

That's why I say it's misogynistic in some respects because he's essentially saying 'well you should have seen it based on what we showed you' which is 'two girls being friends' which ties to 'Oh those girls are really good friends, they're probably gay, because y'know women am I right?'.

Sure some people are homophobic and refused to see it or w/e in the final scene (or JUST MISSED IT!) but it's not the audiences fault for having perhaps had the expectation that there would be more overt instances of romantic relationship building (even in a 'young kids won't get it' sort of way that kids shows are famous for) if indeed there is a relationship. They never even established through slight of hand that Korra or Asami found women attractive at any point prior in the series.
 

Gravidee

Member
If it's a couple months after Mako and Ryuko have been dating how come Gamagoori nor the rest of the Elite Four knew? see the ambiguity? For an anime that explicitly showed mother-daughter incest/rape, the relatively meager 'clues' for the Mako+Ryuko pairing is laughable.

I always thought it was just a friendship date thing rather than something bigger going on between them.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
I feel like the 'you were just looking at it through a hereto lens' isn't a valid statement. In fact it seems kind of misogynistic *blah* *blah* *blah*

Stop right there. Step away from the keyboard. Find your local feminist (I presume you aren't one). Confirm if misogynist

I always thought it was just a friendship date thing rather than something bigger going on between them.

I thought so too but it's ambiguous. I don't care either way, I just don't like the shipping wars clogging up show threads that result from ambiguity. fwiw, I don't really care either way whether Korra and Asami are friends/lovers. Kudos to LoK for breaking down a barrier in usa children's animation but the romance is not why I watch and love the show. That said any suggestion that Kill La Kill writing is better than LoK is just begging for argument
 

Lethe82

Banned
Stop right there. Step away from the keyboard. Find your local feminist (I presume you aren't one). Confirm if misogynist

I am a feminist. The presumption that the viewer wouldn't clue in to the romance because they were viewing it through a hetero lens can be argued to be somewhat misogynistic since what they showed us for 99% of the series was completely platonic with no indication that either character had bi sexual leanings in the show (over in a non overt fashion). I know the word is loaded, I'm not trying to say that Bryke or whoever is secretly sexist, it just seems like a really flimsy defense of the romance we did get.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
I am a feminist. The presumption that the viewer wouldn't clue in to the romance because they were viewing it through a hetero lens can be argued to be somewhat misogynistic since what they showed us for 99% of the series was completely platonic with no indication that either character had bi sexual leanings in the show (over in a non overt fashion).

I don't think you know what that word means.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Alright what word would you use. The perception of women automatically being gay if they are close friends is a reductive appraisal of women stemming from marginalization of the gender. same kind of thing as 'oh that girl won't date me, must be a lesbian'. I'm a big Korrasami fan, I love that they did it, but I don't buy

"If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens"
 

Joeytj

Banned
I feel like the 'you were just looking at it through a hereto lens' isn't a valid statement. In fact it seems kind of misogynistic since what we did see of Korra and Asami interacting for say 97% of the series was indistinguishable from platonic friendship with no prior hints at bi-sexuality from either character.

So if a watcher was blind sided by it, it's not because they were viewer it through a hetero lens, it's because they expected if there was a romantic relationship that the means used to convey it would no be through interactions that seemed entirely innocuous as two girls being friends for 99% of the series.

That's why I say it's misogynistic in some respects because he's essentially saying 'well you should have seen it based on what we showed you' which is 'two girls being friends' which ties to 'Oh those girls are really good friends, they're probably gay, because y'know women am I right?'.

Na. Perhaps that would be true if all we saw of their relationship was Book 3, maybe, but Book 4 was riddled with bigger hints that many people simply couldn't believe meant Korrasami because "it's a kid's show" or "they wouldn't do that." But those hints were there, from Korra saying "I don't know why I can talk to you about it and not the others" and her blush, etc.

And look, people were willing to accept Mako suddenly falling for Asami as some normal heater crush, and also were accepting of Bolin's flings with psycho girls, quirky and cartoony, but "normal" for a hetero character.

But apparently Korra falling for Asami and viceversa needs to be EXTRA clear. Yeah, it could have been better written, when it comes to they hanging out with each other more, although that was a problem with Asami's character in general (why is she friends with any of them in Book 1 and 2?), but honestly, why can't it be just as spontaneous as Mako and Bolin falling for girls? Or Opal falling for Bolin, and Jinora falling for Kai?

That isn't to say it came out of nowhere, they were indeed building that relationship since Book 3, but what Bryan is trying to say is "you give hetero characters the chance to simply fall for other characters, try to do that with Korrasami, at least that."

I'm a gay man, and even I had a hard time believing Korrasami was possible or to be taken seriously. Why? These last couple of days I realized that it was because I did indeed see their relationship through "male homo" glasses, paraphrasing Bryan.

I had no problem seeing Bolin as possibly bisexual when he thought Desna was a girl and cute, and immediately saw one of the Beifong twins as gay (wing or wei) after he was caught by Bolin and gave him a lovingly look because I'm much more familiarized with male homosexuality and trying to look for it in media than lesbian relationships, so yeah, I can accept that I missed the cues but on a second look, they're definitely there.
 

360pages

Member
To be fair, I think Dragon ball has better writing than Korra. [Not Z, though I still enjoyed that more than Korra] Mostly because it was an adventure story about...well adventures. It rarely let itself get cloggy with uneeded stuff. When one arc is over they move on to the next. Korra losses itself with issues it wants to tackle rather then just telling a fun story.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Na. Perhaps that would be true if all we saw of their relationship was Book 3, maybe, but Book 4 was riddled with bigger hints that many people simply couldn't believe meant Korrasami because "it's a kid's show" or "they wouldn't do that." But those hints were there, from Korra saying "I don't know why I can talk to you about it and not the others" and her blush, etc.

And look, people were willing to accept Mako suddenly falling for Asami as some normal heater crush, and also were accepting of Bolin's flings with psycho girls, quirky and cartoony, but "normal" for a heater character.

But apparently Korra falling for Asami and viceversa needs to be EXTRA clear. Yeah, it could have been better written, when it comes to they hanging out with each other more, although that was a problem with Asami's character in general (why is she friends with any of them in Book 1 and 2?), but honestly, why can't it be just as spontaneous as Mako and Bolin falling for girls? Or Opal falling for Bolin, and Jinora falling for Kai?

That isn't to say it came out of nowhere, they were indeed building that relationship since Book 3, but what Bryan is trying to say is "you give hetero characters the chance to simply fall for other characters, try to do that with Korrasami, at least."

I'm a gay man, and even I had a hard time believing Korrasami was possible or to be taken seriously. Why? These last couple of days I realized that it was because I did indeed see their relationship through "male homo" glasses, paraphrasing Bryan.

I had no problem seeing Bolin as possibly bisexual when he thought Desna was a girl and cute, and immediately saw one of the Beifong twins as gay (wing or wei) after he was caught by Bolin and gave him a lovingly look because I'm much more familiarized with male homosexuality and trying to look for it in media than lesbian relationships, so yeah, I can accept that I missed the cues but on a second look, they're definitely there.


Hey fair enough and good response. I guess at the end of the day I wouldn't have this complaint had they maybe put in two or more scenes that could be interpreted as suggestive of bi sexuality when viewed in the consistent context of their interactions leading up to the blush etc. I would say though that Korra and Asami falling for each other needs to be extra clear because reinforced progressively and consistently because the language used to convey it to the viewer is about 1/10000th as overt as Mako falling for Asami the like. I wouldn't even say that it's my hetero lens that made it unclear, I mean almost everyone in the Korrasami camp was picking up on the letter etc right? We were just saying 'well they won't really go through with it' it's just that as a context for building a romance, it felt light. We didn't get to see enough of those cues simply because they were so subtle.

I would have been jubilant is it was almost as overt as Ang crushing on Korra in TLA, but I know that isn't possible.
 
The ending opened the flood gates to the largest outpouring of fan art in history.

The last four times I went to log into tumblr the featured image was Korrasami fan art.
 

Shouta

Member
I just thought about something.

Considering folks have been vocal in this thread about the fact Bryke went out in blogs to say Korra and Asami's relationship is canonical as grounds to say they are bad writers, what did these folks think about the people who didn't need Bryke to say anything to know the pairing was canon?

Another thought: I also think maybe Brian's comment about needing to watch the show again, but not through a hetero-lens may hold some ground considering I could see the interactions between Korra and Asami prior to the ending as signs for them being into each other by simply thinking that they could probably be gay. The only reason I never felt convinced of thinking only that was due to being skeptical of a children's show on Nick ever displaying that to the public.

"You guys be shippers!"

Also, Bryke being bad writers doesn't even need the Korrasami stuff to confirm it. You could make the argument with most of the show, lol.

Also, I don't think the comment about hetero-lens holds water. It's not there unless you're specifically looking at it in that way. It's like the scene in the car where this all supposedly started. How could you get that from the scene when the more obvious, logical, and supported answer was it was awkward for the two because they hadn't interacted before then and they were recently quarreling over Mako. This is really true for the first two seasons and arguably the third one too. It's the 4th season where it becomes a bit clearer but nothing glaring. It really feels like they're trying to give evidence that they were planning this all along when they probably weren't at the time. They couldn't even do this for their main story across 4 seasons but they supposedly did it for Korrasami?

Either they are either nuts or this entire show was just a giant shipping venture and the story was there to do that, lol.
 

Daemul

Member
I still can't believe that everyone hated pro bending. Aside from Asami, it was the only redeeming factor of season 1 for me. The shit was intense.

rsz_pro-bending_battle.png
 

Gravidee

Member
I still can't believe that everyone hated pro bending. Aside from Asami, it was the only redeeming factor of season 1 for me. The shit was intense.

rsz_pro-bending_battle.png

I don't think anyone would have had a problem with pro-bending if it actually looked like what's depicted in that image.
 
Eh, pro bending didn't bother me much. I thought it was a good way to get bending action into a world where bending action didn't always make sense anymore.
 

Lethe82

Banned
"You guys be shippers!"

Also, Bryke being bad writers doesn't even need the Korrasami stuff to confirm it. You could make the argument with most of the show, lol.

Also, I don't think the comment about hetero-lens holds water. It's not there unless you're specifically looking at it in that way. It's like the scene in the car where this all supposedly started. How could you get that from the scene when the more obvious, logical, and supported answer was it was awkward for the two because they hadn't interacted before then and they were recently quarreling over Mako. This is really true for the first two seasons and arguably the third one too. It's the 4th season where it becomes a bit clearer but nothing glaring. It really feels like they're trying to give evidence that they were planning this all along when they probably weren't at the time. They couldn't even do this for their main story across 4 seasons but they supposedly did it for Korrasami?

Either they are either nuts or this entire show was just a giant shipping venture and the story was there to do that, lol.

Exactly.
 
"You guys be shippers!"

Also, Bryke being bad writers doesn't even need the Korrasami stuff to confirm it. You could make the argument with most of the show, lol.

Also, I don't think the comment about hetero-lens holds water. It's not there unless you're specifically looking at it in that way. It's like the scene in the car where this all supposedly started. How could you get that from the scene when the more obvious, logical, and supported answer was it was awkward for the two because they hadn't interacted before then and they were recently quarreling over Mako. This is really true for the first two seasons and arguably the third one too. It's the 4th season where it becomes a bit clearer but nothing glaring. It really feels like they're trying to give evidence that they were planning this all along when they probably weren't at the time. They couldn't even do this for their main story across 4 seasons but they supposedly did it for Korrasami?

Either they are either nuts or this entire show was just a giant shipping venture and the story was there to do that, lol.
Bryke's writing:
tumblr_static_dma2qzpg3lwkkc8sw8w4o408k.png
 

Kinvara

Member
You'd like to think so, but this sort of thing is an ego crusher. I like to think I'd laugh it off and joke(not really >.>), "At least they didn't end up with other dudes", but I'm not sure how I'd really react in that situation.

I don't see it that way because I've read Mako as a closeted gay man since Book 3.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
"You guys be shippers!"

Also, Bryke being bad writers doesn't even need the Korrasami stuff to confirm it. You could make the argument with most of the show, lol.

Also, I don't think the comment about hetero-lens holds water. It's not there unless you're specifically looking at it in that way. It's like the scene in the car where this all supposedly started. How could you get that from the scene when the more obvious, logical, and supported answer was it was awkward for the two because they hadn't interacted before then and they were recently quarreling over Mako. This is really true for the first two seasons and arguably the third one too. It's the 4th season where it becomes a bit clearer but nothing glaring. It really feels like they're trying to give evidence that they were planning this all along when they probably weren't at the time. They couldn't even do this for their main story across 4 seasons but they supposedly did it for Korrasami?

Either they are either nuts or this entire show was just a giant shipping venture and the story was there to do that, lol.
5SWtYLU.gif


Sorry Shouta is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
:(

p.s. they explicitly said that Korrasami wasn't written in until season 3 after all the Mako stuff was done. They weren't trying to write in Korrasami in season 1.
 
"You guys be shippers!"

Also, Bryke being bad writers doesn't even need the Korrasami stuff to confirm it. You could make the argument with most of the show, lol.

Also, I don't think the comment about hetero-lens holds water. It's not there unless you're specifically looking at it in that way. It's like the scene in the car where this all supposedly started. How could you get that from the scene when the more obvious, logical, and supported answer was it was awkward for the two because they hadn't interacted before then and they were recently quarreling over Mako. This is really true for the first two seasons and arguably the third one too. It's the 4th season where it becomes a bit clearer but nothing glaring. It really feels like they're trying to give evidence that they were planning this all along when they probably weren't at the time. They couldn't even do this for their main story across 4 seasons but they supposedly did it for Korrasami?

Either they are either nuts or this entire show was just a giant shipping venture and the story was there to do that, lol.

Another argument against the "hetero lens" reasoning is that good writing shouldn't need to be viewed in a certain way for it to work, it should just work. If this was the case then we should have disclaimers before shows telling us how we're supposed to look at it so it makes sense.

It's a hard argument for me to personally make since I actually saw Korrasami coming. But who knows, maybe I have the hidden talent of looking through every lens at once and don't realize it.

I still can't believe that everyone hated pro bending. Aside from Asami, it was the only redeeming factor of season 1 for me. The shit was intense.
I thought pro bending was cool, but Im the season 1 defense force
 
Another argument against the "hetero lens" reasoning is that good writing shouldn't need to be viewed in a certain way for it to work, it should just work. If this was the case then we should have disclaimers before shows telling us how we're supposed to look at it so it makes sense.

It's a hard argument for me to personally make since I actually saw Korrasami coming. But who knows, maybe I have the hidden talent of looking through every lens at once and don't realize it.


I thought pro bending was cool, but Im the season 1 defense force

That's not true at all. Everyone is going to have a different view point and have different opinion based on their system. My mom would probably think Breaking Bad is terrible because drugs and violence and all the swears (quite the conservative woman). Same as why certain jokes only work if you get why it's a joke. You always need to have a mindset to understand certain writing. The whole "hetero-lens" thing works and it doesn't. It's not a deflector for the criticism (and it shouldn't be used that way), but it's totally true that some people will miss what was there if they only see things that specific way (as hetero).

Also, I'll defend Season 1 with you. I never had any issues with it.
 

Shouta

Member

I'm not against the concept of the pairing, in fact I like the idea, but it feels like Bryke swerved at the last minute instead of putting real thought into it. If they wanted to do it in from the start, they should have given better, clearer hints (while still avoiding censors) instead of the stuff we got.
 
I'm not against the concept of the pairing, in fact I like the idea, but it feels like Bryke swerved at the last minute instead of putting real thought into it. If they wanted to do it in from the start, they should have given better, clearer hints (while still avoiding censors) instead of the stuff we got.

exactly.


at this point it feels more like a red herring or some sort of final fuck you to Nick or censors.

"There's no real evidence or logical aspect to this last minute ship, but totally believe me that it was there for inclusion and natural progress and not just to end the series with a pseudo-gamechanger to have people talking about us and remember we made a good cartoon back in the day that was super popular and no longer is"
 
That's not true at all. Everyone is going to have a different view point and have different opinion based on their system. My mom would probably think Breaking Bad is terrible because drugs and violence and all the swears (quite the conservative woman). Same as why certain jokes only work if you get why it's a joke. You always need to have a mindset to understand certain writing. The whole "hetero-lens" thing works and it doesn't. It's not a deflector for the criticism (and it shouldn't be used that way), but it's totally true that some people will miss what was there if they only see things that specific way (as hetero).

Also, I'll defend Season 1 with you. I never had any issues with it.

That's different, your mom just has an aversion to violence and drugs. It's not that she doesn't understand it because of her world view (well, I don't know your mom, so I'm assuming) she just doesn't like it.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
I'm not against the concept of the pairing, in fact I like the idea, but it feels like Bryke swerved at the last minute instead of putting real thought into it. If they wanted to do it in from the start, they should have given better, clearer hints (while still avoiding censors) instead of the stuff we got.
What other hints could they add? There's clear emotional intimacy and also signs of attraction. The only thing left is physical intimacy and if they can't even hint at a kiss I'm not sure how they are supposed to avoid the censors there


why is korra lesbian? its cool but why

Why the relationship:
Michael - Korrasami Confirmed
Bryan - Korrasami is canon.

Korra could be lesbian or Bi or maybe she's neither and just made a connection with one special girl. The real question is why do you care?

I still can't believe that everyone hated pro bending. Aside from Asami, it was the only redeeming factor of season 1 for me. The shit was intense.

I didn't like Pro bending in S1 because it distracted from the main plot. Plus the rules were a bit restrictive compared to Earth wrestling. Otherwise I don't mind it in the abstract. If the seasons were longer I wouldn't mind the occasional episode for pro bending
 
why is korra lesbian? its cool but why

cause the writers wanted to, stop being homophobic. I'm sure thats what the writer would say. but yes, it should've been forshawdowed more instead of the extremely vague "hints" that were given. but whatever, I liked it.

Korra could be lesbian or Bi or maybe she's neither and just made a connection with one special girl. The real question is why do you care?

cause he's a fan of the show and feels like it came out of no where? which is a perfectly fine reason to be kinda eh about it
 

Daemul

Member
The ending opened the flood gates to the largest outpouring of fan art in history.

The last four times I went to log into tumblr the featured image was Korrasami fan art.

Much of that Korrasami fan art also making fun of Mako, That shit never gets old.

The dude's going to be the butt of all jokes till the end of time, or until another character like him in Bryke's eventual new animation get's screwed over, or should I say get's Mako'd(lol), even more.
 

360pages

Member
I doubt they did it for attention, but the fact the a 54 EP series is probably going to be remembered the most for 30sec of time is sad.

ATLA/ Batman TAS/ Both Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball z all will be remembered for the things they did. The fact that Z managed to get a remake and have a new movie take 6th place in rankings 11 years after the first run ended over here shows something.

Legit, 10 years from now, do you think Legend Of Korra is going to get a movie.

I don't even think the series is bad, just meh.
 
Wan was the only redeeming thing about book 2 for me. Book 2 almost killed my love for Korra and caused me to quit watching. Thank god they got their acts together for 3, cause book three was god tier.
 

Ochi

Neo Member
What other hints could they add? There's clear emotional intimacy and also signs of attraction. The only thing left is physical intimacy and if they can't even hint at a kiss I'm not sure how they are supposed to avoid the censors there


Why the relationship:
Michael - Korrasami Confirmed
Bryan - Korrasami is canon.

Korra could be lesbian or Bi or maybe she's neither and just made a connection with one special girl. The real question is why do you care?

One more blush, another tentative handhold would have GONE MILES to making the ship a far more believable occurrence.

The hair thing was lame because it's stereotypical (girls and their hair, amirite?) and even on a "gender normative" issue Korra is almost never complemented on her looks in Season 2 (post break up) or 3 IIRC.

All I would've wanted would've been ONE more scene with the two getting some serious discussion and the sort of doubt that comes with placing your trust and faith in another human being prior to entering a relationship.
 
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