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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

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X

Xpike

Unconfirmed Member
tumblr_nh7lptKjao1tjunm1o3_500.gif


Can't keep her eyes off her

thanks tvtropes
 
G

googleplex

Member
Kinvara said:
eh, it's definitely a cannon to me. They've had cannons and tanks since A:TLA.

I do feel like a gun wouldn't be useful at all when going against a bender unless you caught them by surprise.
Click to expand...

I think its more that bending has been a corner stone of the technology of that world. Bending had heavily influenced that technological advancement of the Avatar world. The first Subs, Balloons and mass transportation were all bender driven. Bending is used WAY more often as a helpful tool then a deadly weapon.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Kinvara said:
eh, it's definitely a cannon to me. They've had cannons and tanks since A:TLA.

I do feel like a gun wouldn't be useful at all when going against a bender unless you caught them by surprise.
Click to expand...
I don't remember cannons in A:TLA. The Siege of the North had trebuchets and the tanks had Firebenders for offense. There were bombs, but those were dropped from up high instead of fired.

The closest thing to a gun before the superweapon I can think of were the grappling hooks that shot out of tanks in A:TLA and mechs in LOK. Maybe I have a bad memory.
 
K

Kinvara

Member
Trey said:
Yeah, that's the thing. This is why I often bring up how AtLA has the beginning stages of the writing problems that prove to be Legend of Korra's largest issues.

Ultimately, the bender-nonbender "conflict" is basically about power. The driving force of the entire Avatar franchise is understanding and utilizing power. Bending is power, the Avatar is power. But neither show, not even AtLA, really respected the concept of power.

AtLA addresses head on the very topic that would go on to become LoK's season one theme: how benders are much, much more powerful than non-benders. And Sokka's conclusion in the episode is solely contained to his perspective, and doesn't at all speak to the wider situation of the power a bender wields in comparison to his or her nonbending peers.

The writers of AtLA explicitly looked this particular plot point in the eye, and ignored it in the exact same manner that LoK did. By the end of Book Fire, benders are flying and shooting one hundred foot tall flames out of their hands, while Sokka's moonsword (the physical takeaway of him making peace with his nonbender status) goes spiraling away uselessly during a life and death confrontation. Master Piandao takes out a few dudes while Jeong Jeong takes out an entire battalion.

They even bring Sokka back as a flashback in the LoK to talk about all the awesome and crazy shit benders can do, right before a guy solos an entire room of the most powerful people in the world without lifting a finger.

It's all the same thing. I would have preferred they not bring the issue up at all if they were going to blatantly ignore its thematic feasibility. It's easiest to swallow in AtLA because it wasn't a developed thought, and the characters in that series were so rock solid that there's a lot of good to fall back on. But the LoK made power (inequality in particular) its major theme, and tossed it in the bushes; all without having great characters to cushion the fall.

This particular misstep is a franchise staple.
Click to expand...

Good point.

I kind of wish that TLOK was set far later in the timeline to the point where technology posed a significant threat to benders.

Amon could have been a brilliant nonbender that used a machine to take someone's bending away.

Spirtuality/bending being forgotten in an age obsessed with scientific advancement which would lead to backlash from people like Unalaq.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
I'm honestly surprised LoK's writers didn't look at Fullmetal Alchemist or Brotherhood at all when it came to the conflict between benders and nonbenders.

Though there's no direct conflict between normal people and alchemists, FMA at least had Worldbuilding and Fictional Society within a Fantasy World 101 down.

You're an alchemist? Chances are you were approached by the kingdom to become a state alchemist. In doing so, you lost most respect in the eyes of people due to how the state alchemist slaughtered Ishvalian people.

Even then, alchemists didn't really have combat experience unless they specifically trained for it or were a state alchemist.

Also, it helps that guns were numerous. The only catch to this as far as looking at FMA as an example is how most alchemists needed to draw a transmutation circle, and state alchemists often had circles at the ready, like as tattoos, gloves, or brass knuckles.

As far as the Avatar-verse goes, I wonder how many people are benders compared to nonbenders. Considering people are defined in terms of being a bender or not (that was always weird to me), I'm guessing there's more benders?

What I'm getting at is LoK doesn't cover new ground in animation as far as the concepts in each book it tries to cover and stumbles over. I'm glad of the ultimate message the show has at the end about bringing balance, but I kind of wish the writers at least ripped off of other shows that deal with the subject matter better.
 
X

Xpike

Unconfirmed Member
I'm guessing the Avatar's girlfriend being a nonbender will help a bit, hopefully
 
S

SilentMatthew

Member
Xpike said:
I'm guessing the Avatar's girlfriend being a nonbender will help a bit, hopefully
Click to expand...

Doubtful that she'll help the non-bender cause, she is literally in bed with THE reactionary force against change in their world.






Unless Korra is a true sub to Asami's dom, it aint happening.
 
T

Trey

Member
Afrocious said:
I'm honestly surprised LoK's writers didn't look at Fullmetal Alchemist or Brotherhood at all when it came to the conflict between benders and nonbenders.
Click to expand...

The fundamental difference is that anyone can do alchemy in FMA. It's a science. Bending is genetic/person specific in Avatar.
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
Afrocious said:
I'm honestly surprised LoK's writers didn't look at Fullmetal Alchemist or Brotherhood at all when it came to the conflict between benders and nonbenders.

Though there's no direct conflict between normal people and alchemists, FMA at least had Worldbuilding and Fictional Society within a Fantasy World 101 down.

You're an alchemist? Chances are you were approached by the kingdom to become a state alchemist. In doing so, you lost most respect in the eyes of people due to how the state alchemist slaughtered Ishvalian people.

Even then, alchemists didn't really have combat experience unless they specifically trained for it or were a state alchemist.

Also, it helps that guns were numerous. The only catch to this as far as looking at FMA as an example is how most alchemists needed to draw a transmutation circle, and state alchemists often had circles at the ready, like as tattoos, gloves, or brass knuckles.

As far as the Avatar-verse goes, I wonder how many people are benders compared to nonbenders. Considering people are defined in terms of being a bender or not (that was always weird to me), I'm guessing there's more benders?

What I'm getting at is LoK doesn't cover new ground in animation as far as the concepts in each book it tries to cover and stumbles over. I'm glad of the ultimate message the show has at the end about bringing balance, but I kind of wish the writers at least ripped off of other shows that deal with the subject matter better.
Click to expand...

I don't think LoK is even in the same league as FMA:B in terms of story or character execution.

Korra has nice music and animation though, I'll give it that much.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
Trey said:
The fundamental difference is that anyone can do alchemy in FMA. Bending is genetic/person specific in Avatar.
Click to expand...

Wait what? I knew people studied alchemy, but I always thought only some people actually had the skill/
gate
inside them to actually use alchemy.

Granted, I never thought of it, but still that's a surprise.
 
G

googleplex

Member
Also the vast majority of benders don't seem to be anywhere near as powerful and the main protagonist and antagonist of either series. Most people like having benders around because they've extremely useful.
 
T

Trey

Member
Afrocious said:
Wait what? I knew people studied alchemy, but I always thought only some people actually had the skill/
gate
inside them to actually use alchemy.

Granted, I never thought of it, but still that's a surprise.
Click to expand...

You become a transmutation circle when you see the gate, which is something any one can do if they attempt a human transmutation. Alchemy is a science and can be performed by any one sufficient in the science. There's nothing inherent to an alchemist's skill beyond normal human limits, unlike in Avatar where people are either born with the capability of shooting fire out of their limbs, or they're not.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
Trey said:
You become a transmutation circle when you see the gate, which is something any one can do if they attempt a human transmutation. Alchemy is a science and can be performed by any one sufficient in the science. There's nothing inherent to an alchemist's skill beyond normal human limits, unlike in Avatar where people are either born with the capability of shooting fire out of their limbs, or they're not.
Click to expand...

That Dude John said:
I think that had more to do with whether someone needs a transmutation circle or not to do alchemy.
Click to expand...

You guys just blew my mind.

I knew about the human transmutation thing, but I didn't think everyone in the FMA world could do alchemy and that it's all tied to the transmutation circle.

I just assumed the ability to activate circles was something only some were born with, after seeing Ed and Al do alchemy at an early age. I'm guessing that was due to them simply being that gifted intellectually.

Huh. Never would've thought.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
googleplex said:
Also the vast majority of benders don't seem to be anywhere near at powerful and the main protagonist and antagonist of either series. Most people like having benders around because they've extremely useful.
Click to expand...
Think of Zuko Alone. Zuko was able to easily take out non-benders without bending. He was forced to use bending when fighting a no-name bender.

Being able to shoot fire/rocks/water gives you a pretty huge advantage in combat no matter how skilled you are.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
*Peeks back into KorraGAF, sees 78 pages mostly about Korrasami*

Whatever you guys might be discussing here, I hope it isn't a debate about whether Korrasami made an impact or not. Because it did.

Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Joeytj said:
Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
Click to expand...
Judging by how Nick handled the show this season, unlikely.

Which is disappointing to me, but at least we got two great shows.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Joeytj said:
*Peeks back into KorraGAF, sees 78 pages mostly about Korrasami*

Whatever you guys might be discussing here, I hope it isn't a debate about whether Korrasami made an impact or not. Because it did.

Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
Click to expand...

if avatar does come back, i can only assume it will be a 3d show and without bryke's input.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
Joeytj said:
*Peeks back into KorraGAF, sees 78 pages mostly about Korrasami*

Whatever you guys might be discussing here, I hope it isn't a debate about whether Korrasami made an impact or not. Because it did.

Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
Click to expand...

TBH, I have no clue but I'm leaning toward unlikely. Nick dropped the ball on the show and Bryke kinda shot themselves in the foot willingly despite Nick's fuckups.

As much as I love the Avatar universe, its outlook isn't too good considering the two major factors that it requires are daft.
 
G

googleplex

Member
Toxi said:
Think of Zuko Alone. Zuko was able to easily take out non-benders without bending. He was forced to use bending when fighting a no-name bender.

Being able to shoot fire/rocks/water gives you a pretty huge advantage in combat no matter how skilled you are.
Click to expand...

No doubt but the average bender in the world of Avatar is probably a farmer and probably don't get much combat training. The partially skilled ones end up in the army in service to their nation. Most of the greatest cities were built with bending and best healers are water benders.

Again Benders do more in service to the people and their communities in one compacity or another then harm. It is just no reason, given the history of that world why there should be any wide spread animosity towards benders.
 
S

Spyder_Monkey

Banned
Joeytj said:
*Peeks back into KorraGAF, sees 78 pages mostly about Korrasami*

Whatever you guys might be discussing here, I hope it isn't a debate about whether Korrasami made an impact or not. Because it did.

Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
Click to expand...

In a perfect world. Bryke would continue the franchise with brand new stories to tell, interesting new characters, and excellent animation. Too bad it's not a perfect world.

The best that can be hoped for is Bryke working on a spiritual successor on an outlet that's not Nickelodeon. Say what you will about them but their work has earned them quite a bit of street cred. They will do another project eventually Avatar or not and chances are it will be excellent.

AniHawk said:
if avatar does come back, i can only assume it will be a 3d show and without bryke's input.
Click to expand...

3D? That's lame, can it at least be Flash?
 
H

Hamlet

Member
Joeytj said:
*Peeks back into KorraGAF, sees 78 pages mostly about Korrasami*

Whatever you guys might be discussing here, I hope it isn't a debate about whether Korrasami made an impact or not. Because it did.

Anyway, let's see if anyone responds to this.

How probable do you think another Avatar related show or production is in the near future? Like, it being announced 1 to 3 years from now?

Comics will continue, but I have a hard time believing that's it. Maybe a year with no news, but something's being planned.
Click to expand...

You know I wouldn't actually be that surprised if nick were to announce a new show aimed more at a younger audience similar to what CN did with Teen Titans Go.
IP seems to big to me for Nick to let it gather dust on TV.
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
Hamlet said:
You know I wouldn't actually be that surprised if nick were to announce a new show aimed more at a younger audience similar to what CN did with Teen Titans Go.
IP seems to big to me for Nick to let it gather dust on TV.
Click to expand...

Do young kids even know what avatar is anymore? I mean, kids that were born when TLA finished are 6-7 years old in 2015. I always saw Korra as being the continuation for the original fan base.

I mean, I guess they could. But why would they when they can just keep using Spongebob or Fairly Oddparents? What runs on nickelodeon anyway? I haven't had a TV with cable for like 5 years.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
m_shortpants said:
Do young kids even know what avatar is anymore? I mean, kids that were born when TLA finished are 6-7 years old in 2015. I always saw Korra as being the continuation for the original fan base.

I mean, I guess they could. But why would they when they can just keep using Spongebob or Fairly Oddparents? What runs on nickelodeon anyway? I haven't had a TV with cable for like 5 years.
Click to expand...

Lol you sound like me when it comes to cable. Fuck paying for that shit.

Yeah, I felt Korra was for the original fans of TLA and tried to keep up with them with bigger issues.

I don't think the writing kept up, but I at least see the messages buried underneath the mistakes and missteps.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
googleplex said:
No doubt but the average bender in the world of Avatar is probably a farmer and probably don't get much combat training. The partially skilled ones end up in the army in service to their nation. Most of the greatest cities were built with bending and best healers are water benders.

Again Benders do more in service to the people and their communities in one compacity or another then harm. It is just no reason, given the history of that world why there should be any wide spread animosity towards benders.
Click to expand...
Has there ever been a bending farmer in Avatar?

No seriously, go look at how many bending farmers there are in either show. You could probably count them on one hand. And this isn't because there's a lack of farmers; we see plenty of them, they're just all nonbenders.

The vast majority of benders we see are in other positions. Architecture, military, craftsmen, politics, etc. In the militaries and politics they conspicuously tend to outrank non-benders.
 
S

Spyder_Monkey

Banned
AniHawk said:
nickelodeon is super comfortable with 3d for their action shows. plus it would look better against star wars on disney.
Click to expand...

I don't know, I just can't picture something like Avatar working with CG. I need some footage to convince me.

googleplex said:
Dude don't even joke like that!
Click to expand...

Flash, like with every tool of the trade, is only bad in the wrong hands. With that being said, I haven't seen an action show done in Flash so I don't know how well that would work.
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
Afrocious said:
Lol you sound like me when it comes to cable. Fuck paying for that shit.

Yeah, I felt Korra was for the original fans of TLA and tried to keep up with them with bigger issues.

I don't think the writing kept up, but I at least see the messages buried underneath the mistakes and missteps.
Click to expand...

Well, half the reason was I went to college and of course no one has cable there. Never bothered to get it once I got out. We live in the age of Netflix and Amazon Instant Video my friend.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
m_shortpants said:
Well, half the reason was I went to college and of course no one has cable there. Never bothered to get it once I got out. We live in the age of Netflix and Amazon Instant Video my friend.
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Haha damn straight. Same here. I pay for internet and that's about it.

Internet streaming and downloading > cable with a ton of shitty channels.

Once HBO Go is available to everyone without having to subscribe to the channel, cable will be more useless to me.

m_shortpants said:
My first instinct as to say "fuck a new Avatar show without Bryke"

then I thought about it more

no, let's do avatar without bryke. pls.
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to check it out, but the moment it starts being cash cow as fuck, I'm done.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Spyder_Monkey said:
The best that can be hoped for is Bryke working on a spiritual successor on an outlet that's not Nickelodeon. Say what you will about them but their work has earned them quite a bit of street cred. They will do another project eventually Avatar or not and chances are it will be excellent.
Click to expand...

the question is... where? cartoon network had a genndy tartatovsky show that they fucking squandered. maybe toonami instead? the show wouldn't need to be gross/gory/crude, just mature. disney might be into it, but i think they're just fine with star wars rebel being their one action show. the only other outlets would be streaming services: netflix and amazon in particular, who seem to be trying for a lot more original programming. maybe even yahoo screen if it isn't dead in a year.
 
H

Hamlet

Member
googleplex said:
I'd watch a Avatar show in this style.

http://youtu.be/bw2Ye46CvOM
Click to expand...

Yeah I wouldn't mind a show like that. Loved those chibi shorts.

m_shortpants said:
Do young kids even know what avatar is anymore? I mean, kids that were born when TLA finished are 6-7 years old in 2015. I always saw Korra as being the continuation for the original fan base.

I mean, I guess they could. But why would they when they can just keep using Spongebob or Fairly Oddparents? What runs on nickelodeon anyway? I haven't had a TV with cable for like 5 years.
Click to expand...

Well when Korra first started it was massively popular with both the younger and older demographics for Book 1. Being on a Saturday morning also helped.
So I could see Nick making a new show focusing on getting mostly that younger demographic in the future as Nick doesn't care about the older viewers it seems.

Plus it's an alternative to Spongebob as in the recent years Nick have become way too reliant on Spongebob. I believe spongebob accounts for 45-50% of its programming hours last I read.
 
S

SilentMatthew

Member
Toxi said:
Has there ever been a bending farmer in Avatar?

No seriously, go look at how many bending farmers there are in either show. You could probably count them on one hand. And this isn't because there's a lack of farmers; we see plenty of them, they're just all nonbenders.

The vast majority of benders we see are in other positions. Architecture, military, craftsmen, politics, etc. In the militaries and politics they conspicuously tend to outrank non-benders.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Also, Mako and Bolin were fortunate as eff for being born as benders from presumably non-bender parents. They had a lot of opportunities compared to non-benders in the same situation of being dirt poor. Kinda reminds me of the Tevinter Imperium from Dragon Age. The non-magical population will forever be the petty classes . Their only hope for access to certain freedoms, social mobility&etc is the possibility of having magically-aligned progeny. Of course even if that happened, it is still hampered by old-moneh and political dynasties.
 
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