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[ASIS]

Yeah they are pretty cool.

However, I think you have to consider the sky the overworld simply because it's the hub that connects the entire game. That's kind of always been the overworlds design in Zelda.

But you know what I mean, it just doesn't feel like an overworld. I mean it might be technically, but it just doesn't feel like that.

 

[oatmeal]

Tbh so far the only valid complaint is probably to do with motion+ it can be a bit niggly...

Other than that the last 2 pages is filled with people who fail at reading and using common sense...

Someone was complaining about needing to buy a shield...well you are gifted one for starters...another person complained about needing seeds for slingshot and he trekked back...if they read the dialogue box when they recieved it they would know they simply need to crack open one of the many hanging yellow things in the tree's...

The "high/low" switch thing makes me laugh...because it only requires exploration in order to find the switches.

Honestly people nowadays clearly have issues with patience and needing to have their hand held...and it's because of these types of people that Nintendo continues to actually hold peoples hands...

For someone so talented at exploring Zelda dungeons, you sure do have trouble navigating a thread about the game.

 

[Kard8p3]

They want 5 years old to be able to play this thing. Do you seriously think a 5 years old could finish any Zelda game without any directions?

In this case I have to say I do think they could with a little patience.

 

[oatmeal]

But you know what I mean, it just doesn't feel like an overworld. I mean it might be technically, but it just doesn't feel like that.

It's a means to an end. But don't you kind of wish there was a small island like Outset Island? With a little town that had more people? Something like Dragon Roost Island? Or just something out there.

Right now it's just a means to an end. Something you have to quickly go through to get to your next destination. That's kind of shitty.

More Pumpkin places, please.

 

[oatmeal]

So judging by many impressions of the last few pages, Skyward Sword is about as good as Starfox Adventures? Or maybe a little worse?

Dammit, I knew that Gamespot score was just based on hype, shouldn't have thought it deserved that high of a rating :/

Not even gonna bother playing this broken, soulless, empty, slow, overly easy, non-voiced, SD, predictable and disappointing mess of a game.

Thanks GAF members.

The difference between us and you is that we're basing our impressions on actually playing it.

And our conflicting opinions are going head to head. It's classic GAF...how boring would this thread be if everyone just said:

"Amazing, I love it"

There's no discussion in that. The thread would be 5 pages long.

 

[ASIS]

It's a means to an end. But don't you kind of wish there was a small island like Outset Island? With a little town that had more people? Something like Dragon Roost Island? Or just something out there.

Right now it's just a means to an end. Something you have to quickly go through to get to your next destination. That's kind of shitty.

More Pumpkin places, please.

Not really. I'm seeing the sky as skyloft, and all the other islands are extensions from it. But yeah I would never say no to more content.

 

[butter_stick]

Yeaaah...you're full of shit right there. Skyward Sword basically is Super Mario Galaxy, but for Zelda. The drastically different level design that returns to condensed 2D roots is one of the comparisons I could make, as is the fact that everything featured in the game is more or less brand new to the franchise (there is literally no old puzzles, except for swiches). The graphical style is also very similar and so is the gameplay elements.

I'm not talking about game structure, I'm talking about the gameplay itself. It still feels very familiar. I feel like I'm playing an Ocarina sequel, it's just the things I have to do are different. This isn't a slur on the game, but for the series to ever feel fresh again it needs to discard all it's conventions.

 

[Big One]

I'm not talking about game structure, I'm talking about the gameplay itself. It still feels very familiar. I feel like I'm playing an Ocarina sequel, it's just the things I have to do are different. This isn't a slur on the game, but for the series to ever feel fresh again it needs to discard all it's conventions.

Super Mario Galaxy discarded all of the Mario conventions?

 

[pringles]

But, I just replayed Ocarina on the 3DS. The optimal version of the game. Fixed graphics, framerate, controls, fixed interface, fixed water temple. With that in mind, here's how Ocarina is a "big disappointment and a lower tier Zelda":

1. A horribly long, slow, grating opening. Running around a kiddie village, with no interesting dialog, and a dumb elf girlfriend for Link that never amounts to anything. The first dungeon is insultingly easy and simplistic. You have to go on fetch quests for NPCs just to get a sword and a shield. Then there's that frustrating trial and error Lost Woods maze, all this before the game even really opens up or gains any momentum.

"Trial and and error Lost Woods maze"??

You mean the simple but great Lost Woods maze where you simply have to follow the music to find the right path?

People complain about Zelda games being simplistic and handholding but at the same time there are many people in this this just on the last few pages that are blatantly showing that they're unable to figure out very simple stuff. Like refilling the slingshot in Skyward Sword.

 

[F#A#Oo]

For someone so talented at exploring Zelda dungeons, you sure do have trouble navigating a thread about the game.

You struggled with the switches right?...I'm sorry I don't know how that feels like.

 

[butter_stick]

Super Mario Galaxy discarded all of the Mario conventions?

It certainly didn't feel like a Mario 64 sequel. Sunshine did. Surely you can see the difference here?

 

[Togglesworlh]

. . . I was talking about more important stuff than that. But yeah they should have made that stuff optional.

Those things are part of the bigger problem, though. That problem being that they feel the need to make games for idiots. For people who are incapable of pattern recognition. Of exploring without being TOLD to explore.

Alone, they're just a couple of insignificant bad design choices, sure, but combined with dozens of other seemingly insignificant things, they paint a much bigger picture.

Ironically, a good deal of those problems would be solved with a few toggles in the options menu. Fi's incessant gibbering, annoying and monotonous text boxes, unavoidable hints and tips, slow text scrolling. All of these are about helping the player. Giving them more knowledge, in case they either forget, or simply can't figure it out on their own, or can't keep up. It is deliberately dumbing down the game for the dumb.

The worst part is, kids aren't stupid. A lot of kids COULD figure this stuff out on their own, given the chance. Even if we took all of this out, Zelda is not a hard game anymore. Although, maybe Skyward Sword is. I can't say, as I haven't played it, yet. But I don't expect it to be much more difficult, given the past 15 years.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The difference between us and you is that we're basing our impressions on actually playing it.

And our conflicting opinions are going head to head. It's classic GAF...how boring would this thread be if everyone just said:

"Amazing, I love it"

Some people overanalyze though as if they are reviewing every section of the game on a deadline, looking for things to pick apart.

I guess that's natural though when people post section by section impressions(I won't do that, I'll play the whole game and keep to myself how terrible or great I thought it was----or not say much in detail).

If going by the beginning was reliable, I'd say Twilight Princess was the worst Zelda.

I'm curious to see what people that are "negative" of the game say when it all comes together and got to the meat of it or the conclusion.

Now if the dugeons disappointed, I'd be worried.

The text, not-much-of-an-overworld, etc...

I can get past those things and will probably even like the overworld more than many do here.

It's weird seeing that there's not much to do in places in the game though when the developers said there's more to do than any other Zelda.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Again, I really do not understand people saying that this game is very similar to Ocarina of Time. In what way? If I may ask, name the things that you think Skyward Sword contains that reminds you why you think this game is the Ocarina sequel or some such.

 

[Big One]

It certainly didn't feel like a Mario 64 sequel. Sunshine did. Surely you can see the difference here?

The only reason why it felt different (and why the game is so great) is because the level design was different. This is the same case with Skyward Sword. Saying it feels the same as Ocarina of Time, while Super Mario Galaxy feels different from Mario 64, is just an illusion at best.

 

[butter_stick]

Some people overanalyze though as if they are reviewing every section of the game on a deadline, looking for things that pick apart.

I guess that's natural though when people post section by section impressions(I won't do that, I'll play the whole game and keep to myself how terrible or great I thought it was----or not say much in detail).

If going by the beginning was reliable, I'd say Twilight Princess was the worst Zelda.

I'm curious to see what people that are "negative" of the game say when it all cam together and got to the meat of it or the conclusion.

Now if the dugeons disappointed, I'd be worried.

The text, not-much-of-an-overworld, etc...

I can get past those things and will probably even like the overworld more than many do here.

It's weird seeing that there's not much to do in places in the game though when the developers said there's more to do than any other Zelda.

The dungeons are fantastic. Nobody is going to have a problem with them unless they turn to shit after number 5.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The dungeons are fantastic. Nobody is going to have a problem with them unless they turn to shit after number 5.

I just worry that they will be too short and not enough of them.

 

[thomasmahler]

Another thing: I think the collections really, really hurt the game. In a Zelda game, when you saw a magical chest, you always knew something cool would be in it.

I just opened one of those chests. I got a tumbleweed.

Fucking tumbleweed, man. I get reptile tails and all that shit that I can't really use. This very much feels like I go through a chore to do something to see fucking concept art. I really don't care about the collections and they even play the classic Zelda jingle for it. If you use the thing on 200 times during the game, its value is different than if you hear it 10 or so times.

If I see a chest, go through all the trouble to get there and you play the Link Chest Animation, you better give me some cool item.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Well, kind of, but I mean there are different demographics that have different kinds of appeal. The only direction Nintendo didn't take the series is a complete throwback to Zelda 1. And don't tell me it won't piss fans off.

. . . I was talking about more important stuff than that. But yeah they should have made that stuff optional.

It wouldn't piss me off, I'd love to see a actual console Zelda embrace the concepts of Zelda 1/2. Not to mention the awesome dual-view and elaborate design that could be brought in from a top down/side scroll view on the Upad screen (but that's another thread I guess).

 

[ASIS]

I just worry that they will be too short and not enough of them.

Put those worries to rest, like right now.

 

[Magnus]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I'm stuck in the first dungeon. Hahaha.

Spoiler

I've flooded the room and hit both crystal switches. I can't seem to find any way onto the platform that has a chest on it that must house the key I need to progress

 

[butter_stick]

The only reason why it felt different (and why the game is so great) is because the level design was different. This is the same case with Skyward Sword. Saying it feels the same as Ocarina of Time, while Super Mario Galaxy feels different from Mario 64, is just an illusion at best.

Zelda's structure is different, not its level design. You're still doing the same things you've always done.

I know there's no point continuing this, I'm glad you're happy with SS and feel like its fresh and different. I certainly like a lot of the changes in the game. I think after dungeon 2 the pre-dungeon segments are fantastic and really help breath some life in to the series. But at the same time there are still a lot of Zelda conventions dating back to Ocarina that you see again and again. And my point is only that for the next Zelda to truly feel different and like a series reboot to me, they need to be discarded.

 

[Aeana]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I'm stuck in the first dungeon. Hahaha.

Spoiler

I've flooded the room and hit both crystal switches. I can't seem to find any way onto the platform that has a chest on it that must house the key I need to progress

Spoiler

In the main room, there should be a log you can jump onto that leads to a wall covered in ivy.

 

[butter_stick]

I just worry that they will be too short and not enough of them.

They're not too short.

They also have long sections before them that ramp up in quality and become basically dungeons in themselves. Trust me, dungeons are the last thing you should be worried about.

 

[ASIS]

It wouldn't piss me off, I'd love to see a actual console Zelda embrace the concepts of Zelda 1/2. Not to mention the awesome dual-view and elaborate design that could be brought in from a top down/side scroll view on the Upad screen (but that's another thread I guess).

I would also like to see them explore that. But what I was trying to say is that a lot of the Zelda fans don't want it, they want a cinematic epic instead, others want what Zelda is providing right now, another group wants a side-quest heavy Zelda again (ala MM) ,etc.

I just want the team to stop giving a crap what the audience want/expect from them and just make whatever feels appropriate for them. To me, SS is "almost" that.

 

[Magnus]

Spoiler

In the main room, there should be a log you can jump onto that leads to a wall covered in ivy.

None of the purple logs seem to be within jumping reach of any vine walls. I tried...?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Another thing: I think the collections really, really hurt the game. In a Zelda game, when you saw a magical chest, you always knew something cool would be in it.

I just opened one of those chests. I got a tumbleweed.

~Aonuma laughs~

 

[butter_stick]

None of the purple logs seem to be within jumping reach of any vine walls. I tried...?

In the main room are both the left and right doors unlocked?

 

[Magnus]

In the main room are both the left and right doors unlocked?

Yes sir, switches hit in both.

I seriously feel fucking retarded. I don't think I hit a roadblock that stumped me this long in any ocarina dungeon, lol.

 

[oatmeal]

So Skyward Sword has a worse start than both Wind Waker and Majora's Mask then?

Worse than WW, not worse than MM.

Cause they sure did fix it. Whether it took you hours to complete or not, the beginning of Skyward Sword from the time the game begins, to when Link get his tunic, should only take someone 20-30 minutes at most. Any sense of it being overly long is the fault of the player alone as it's considerably shorter than the intro in previous 3D Zelda, sans Ocarina of Time (which still has a delayed, small intro).

I consider Zelda 'starting' to when you get to the first real dungeon. I think that's the standard Zelda-rule. TP has always been judged by how long it takes you to get to the Forest Temple. And it's a long time. SS isn't quite as long, and its case, I would say that the game starts when you open up the sky and go down to the forest.

On my first game, it took me two hours. On my second it took me around 22 minutes. I timed both. Twilight Princess takes hours to do even if you know exactly what you have to do. There is absolutely no comparison here and I find it completely inane that they haven't "fixed" the intro problem when they already have.

I don't think anyone (maybe they have), but at least I haven't made the comparison to TP. TP has universally been known as worse. I'm sure, especially with HERO MODE on, it will be a lot quicker on replays. I just wish that option was available from the start.

Yeah clearly since they're all areas before the dungeon, that means they're all the same.

In the case with Majora's Mask, how is it any different? You have a hub, and then you have a ton of shit to do to get to the first dungeon. And it's almost like a dungeon in itself.

I'm not trying to say it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not really new to the series.

You're the one hyperbolizing by sarcastically saying 'they're all the same'. I'm saying that it is taking things we've seen before and putting them together...which was my response to you asking how it was the same as old Zeldas.

I think it's a valid observation.

Yes, it's true. Every Zelda game has areas to conquer before dungeons. That's the structure of Zelda.

However to equate that on that level alone is just pure superficial when the design of said areas are drastically different between the 2D games, Zelda II, the 3D games, the DS games, and Skyward Sword.

Absolutely. And there's nothing inherently wrong with it. That wasn't my point. My point was that we've seen this structure before (Majora's Mask most strongly resembles the pre-dungeon stuff). Think of how much you had to do before getting to the Stone Tower Temple. Shit, there was a mini-boss before you even get in!

It's like complaining that the game is the same because you collect things in threes...oh wait, you already have.

Again, I'm not complaining about that. You asked how it was similar to old Zeldas, as if this was a completely new Zelda design. I was saying that it still follows many of the staples set by previous games. And it does.

Is that bad? Again, no. But we can't pretend that this is as fresh as the Zelda series has ever been or ever can be.

Aside from proving that you have no idea what a fetch quest actually is anymore, none of the elements in the game are "impending" on the main quest. Those elements are the main quest. Do you consider being forced to get the mirror in A Link to the Past a "fetch quest" that "impedes on the gameplay" too?

There's no quest involved with the mirror. You get it on your way up the mountain. The guy goes 'take this' and you take it. No different than me saying that it's not a fetch quest to get the shield in SS since it's just handed to you. Though, I guess you can miss that and have to go buy one...that wasn't in my experience.

What is a fetch quest then?

Is it not something you're forced to do, or take care of, before being able to proceed? How is dowsing for kikwi's any different than finding power module-things to power up the thing? You're still dowsing, you're still looking for something.

But in the desert, it was masked by making the gameplay more engaging. And that made it fun to play through. But it doesn't change what it is.

Getting the windmill thing...fetch quest.

So now, instead of actual gameplay, you're deconstructing the narrative. "The narrative is the same, so it's the same." is what your point basically is. Narrative has absolutely nothing to do with the core gameplay and level design and I really don't want to lay this shit out for you for something so obliviously obvious. Maybe I do cause you can't tell the difference between the things leading to a dungeon in Majora's Mask, and the things leading to a dungeon in Skyward Sword. Anyone who plays games to play games should see how drastically different Skyward Sword is from the other Zelda games.

You shouldn't put things in quotes if I didn't actually say it.

I gave pretty specific examples of how this game is similar to older Zeldas. If you want to refute it with examples from SS how it differs in how the story is told, go ahead.

How is what you do in Majora's Mask that different than SS? Please tell me. Because from where I'm standing they each have their own story segment that you need to handle before entering.

SPOILERS HERE FOLKS:

MM - Sneaking in and freeing the monkey who has been wrongly imprisoned, which lets you gain access to the temple.
SS - Finding the Kikwi and making sure that they're all safe so you gain access to the temple.

MM - Make your way towards where the Gorons live so you can help out the frozen Goron, participate in the Goron race to get the Keg Bomb, help the baby Goron stop crying, find the Lens of Truth, follow the spirit of the Goron, etc. etc. to gain access to the temple.
SS - Make your way towards the top of the volcano so you can start dowsing for key shards so you can gain access to the temple.

etc. etc.

It's not that different.

Your comparisons in the various quotes here are similar elements, but none of them are designed the same way they are in Zelda games in Skyward Sword. Absolutely none. This is an undeniable and straight up fact that the game really does change the entire structure of the level design to be dungeon-like rather than focused on wide areas to explore. Of course you can continue to be deluded that the Gerudo Desert is the equivalent of the Lanaryu Desert, but until you actually replay the games you're talking about you simply won't understand why. I highly suggest this next week you go back and play Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess after playing Skyward Sword.

Instead of saying that you are spitting undeniable facts, why don't you try and counter point?

It would be a lot more effective than what you're trying to do here.

Instead you're taking different arguments and placing them in your own to make yourself look right.

I never compared the Lanayru Desert to Gerudo. I said that each Zelda game had areas that led to dungeons. In fact, I was using Majora's Mask as a comparison for this game when it came to pre-dungeon stuff. But the overworld consisting of a hub, and then smaller areas leading to dungeons has been a common thing since OoT.

I have played through OoT 3DS twice and TP once over the summer. I don't need to replay them to know that you are undeniably and straight up wrong. Hey, it is easier to argue that way.

Why didn't I do that in the first place? Why would I cite examples...

 

[butter_stick]

Yes sir, switches hit in both.

I seriously feel fucking retarded. I don't think I hit a roadblock that stumped me this long in any ocarina dungeon, lol.

Post what you've done since opening that left side door and I'll try and remember what you need to do

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

How's the beetle control???

I see many possibilities with such an item but worry it might be cumbersome and not realize them.

 

[Magnus]

Post what you've done since opening that left side door and I'll try and remember what you need to do

Opened both doors, hit both switches, room is flooded. I cannot for my life figure out how the flooding helped me.

 

[butter_stick]

How's the beetle control???

I see many possibilities with such an item but worry it might be cumbersome and not realize them.

Fine. I've had very few issues, only issue is the same old M+ centre point issues.

It's not really been used all that much since I started getting more weapons though.

 

[ASIS]

Opened both doors, hit both switches, room is flooded. I cannot for my life figure out how the flooding helped me.

Spoiler

look for a wall that has Ivy and spiders, there should be a log nearby that wall, jump on it, and dash jump onto the ivy, you should be able to make it

 

[butter_stick]

Opened both doors, hit both switches, room is flooded. I cannot for my life figure out how the flooding helped me.

To the right of the right side door is a log and some vines on the wall, can you run and reach the vines yet?

Do you have the dungeon map, I'm assuming yes IIRC.

 

[Magnus]

Dash jumping off that log is like the first thing I tried. Just tried it again three times. I simply can't reach those vines. They're too far/high.

So this is the solution? lol. And I just can execute it for some reason. Hahaha.

Thanks. I'll...keep trying I guess.

 

[ASIS]

Dash jumping off that log is like the first thing I tried. Just tried it again three times. I simply can't reach those vines. They're too far/high.

So this is the solution? lol. And I just can execute it for some reason. Hahaha.

Thanks. I'll...keep trying I guess.

I can link you to a video walkthrough if you like.

 

[Lunar15]

Wow this is depressing. Zelda cycle GO!

 

[oatmeal]

How's the beetle control???

I see many possibilities with such an item but worry it might be cumbersome and not realize them.

It's fantastic.

One of the best new additions.

 

[Magnus]

I can link you to a video walkthrough if you like.

I just don't understand how this jump is possible, so sure. Lol

 

[oatmeal]

Dash jumping off that log is like the first thing I tried. Just tried it again three times. I simply can't reach those vines. They're too far/high.

So this is the solution? lol. And I just can execute it for some reason. Hahaha.

Thanks. I'll...keep trying I guess.

It should be the log, when you first enter the room from the first door, on your immediate right. You can swim and climb on the branch of the log.

 

[Aeana]

Dash jumping off that log is like the first thing I tried. Just tried it again three times. I simply can't reach those vines. They're too far/high.

So this is the solution? lol. And I just can execute it for some reason. Hahaha.

Thanks. I'll...keep trying I guess.

It sounds to me like the water level isn't raised high enough. Don't you raise it twice? I could be totally misremembering.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It feels like you people are deliberately ignoring me for some reason, hahaha.

Oh well.

 

[Magnus]

It sounds to me like the water level isn't raised high enough. Don't you raise it twice? I could be totally misremembering.

Woah, what? lol. I'm clearly missing something. Raising it twice would bring it up close enough for sure.

 

[ASIS]

It feels like you people are deliberately ignoring me for some reason, hahaha.

Oh well.

I didn't ignore you, I just completely agreed with every thing you said. So there was no need to reply.

 

[F#A#Oo]

He needs to slingshot the 2 vines in the unlocked left room...kill the skulltullas and slingshot the 3rd switch...

 

[oatmeal]

It feels like you people are deliberately ignoring me for some reason, hahaha.

Oh well.

Checking...

Again, I really do not understand people saying that this game is very similar to Ocarina of Time. In what way? If I may ask, name the things that you think Skyward Sword contains that reminds you why you think this game is the Ocarina sequel or some such.

We've brought it up many times...

It's not just OoT, it's the standard SET in OoT. We're not saying "oh this is just like Gerudo Desert", we're saying "This feels like the same game as OoT/MM/TWW/TP"

And no one is saying that it's a bad thing, it's just not a big step forward for the series like some are claiming.

It's still a 3D Zelda, you can see its roots in almost every facet of its design.

 

[Magnus]

He needs to slingshot the 2 vines in the unlocked left room...kill the skulltullas and slingshot the 3rd switch...

I already hit that one. I hit both in both side rooms, lol. Somethibg's amiss. I'm going to save and reload the game. The water level only rose once.

 

[JumpingTheGun]

so do we have to go through the same boring shit like in the past 10 or so Zeldas where you have to take the first 3 hours to find your dick?