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[MightyHedgehog]

It's always fun to go through old Usenet posts. A part of me wishes I were a little older, so I could have joined them.

I love how articulate people were on the Internet back then. As the barrier of entry to the Internet lowered, our language and interpersonal skills did, too.

Eh, as a very regular user back then, I think you're painting a much nicer picture of discourse on the more active public boards. Many people posted that way, but most were just as terrible as any today, though the harshness back then could be left unchecked for hours and days and even escalate into hate crime material when someone practically threatened someone's life or stooped quite low to launch a salvo of extremely harsh insults in an argument...over games or gaming and computer brands. The writing quality was definitely better thanks to people still using and writing snail mail as the norm and having to adhere to good old fashioned communication and writing skills in the process, but the regularity of use wasn't enough to start truncating and abbreviating everything until the pace of rooms and chats became faster and then updated in real-time. Then, the shit hit the fan. I would never point out my few handles with tons of awfully ignorant and childish posts I've made in arguments starting with 8-bit computers and software, consoles, and arcades...probably over a hundred or so that I can guess at from the late mid-to-late 80s forward. Bad stuff last time I found many of them...almost hard to believe I wrote them, but they're mine, alright.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The one that always gets me is that every gen, there's someone moaning about this gen bringing in an easily duped casual crowd, thanks to shallow, disgusting means such as fancy graphics, advertising, box artwork, CG cutscenes, etc.

The best part is that usually, the people who got on board with said decried machines see themselves as hardcore 2 gens later and describe these machines as a golden age.

Anyway, we really shouldn't open that can of worms. Ugh, I won't search for my usenet posts.

LOL this is indeed the pattern. IMO, how it happens is really simple:

People who see themselves as part of a special club (gaming) hate it when their hobby is made less special. In other words, mainstream. That's unhip.

Selling video games always means appealing to a wide number of people. It's a business. Therefore, if you need to have big sales, you can't be a slave to an enthusiast, hardcore niche.

Said niches always begin screaming (ALWAYS) when anything becomes 'too popular'. Their only defense, as a tribal thing, is to move the goal posts. This last generation it was Nintendo with Wii, then smartphone gaming. Wii for example was predicated on selling the true mainstream on the idea that there were still simple, wholesome arcade style games that they remembered from years before. It took off and hardcore gamers had to write the narrative to the effect of low tech graphics and simple gameplay were 'non-games'.

Look at E3 this year; some people actually said 2D Mario was not real Mario because it doesn't show off technology and innovation. One of the foundations of gaming since the NES is now too 'casual', mainstream, and uncool.

So yeah, people (and gamers) never change. There is usually a floating range of gamers between 20-35 years old who seem to fall into the same traps of rationalization every generation.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

All I see in the OP are articulate posts where no one is cursing each other out for having a difference in the opinion. The language is PG-rated throughout, and people seemed to have been less cynical, even more respectful to each other back then. I've only been on the internet since 1996, but even I can see things have changed for the worse.

 

[Gaspode_T]

The posts got pretty nasty around 1995 if I remember correctly. 32-bit era brought out the real flaming and trolling as you see today. Before that there simply were not as many people using the internet, they tended to be educated and not kids either.

I feel old that I can recognize names from the first posts posted (Mark from jaguar board).

Opening up old wounds LOL:

Is there an email address at Sony that we can write to about these terrible
mistakes they've done? Rejecting an infamous MEGAMAN game is one of the
worst things ANY company could ever do! We grew up on those NES games!
It is what made the original NES so popular! Don't let them go somewhere else!

We need someone at Sony to look into what they've done, and change their mind!

3D is cool, but that is not why I bought the PlayStation, I bought it for
the cool games, regardless of 2D or 3D! If they stick with just 3D games,
we are all doomed, because not everything can be done in 3D, and 3D itself
is only a Genre of games, which some people like, and some don't! (I prefer
2D RPGs out of everything! Like Suikoden, etc!)

If I had known Sony was going to ONLY publish 3D games, I would have not
bought it in the first place. I am happy they make exceptions, but we have to
change that.

(1997)

I know all you PSX lovers are happy with current position of
PSX. With FFVII and DQVII secured, I admit that Sony has won
this time, and PSX will probably stay on top for a while.

But nothing stays on top forever.

I have seen some specs of upcoming PSX2, and it is not
impressive. It looks more like evolution than revolution like
PSX1 was to gaming world. Faster processors, more memory,
more special effects, plus full binary compatilibity with
PSX1. While the performence jump is there, it is not significant.
Since Sony claims 800,000 polygons/s with all the FXs turned on,
it will probably do 500,000~600,000 polygons in real life.

On the other hand, Sega secretly commisioned Lockheed Martin
Corp to develop their next machine back in 1995. Lockheed Martin
is the same company that brought you Model2, Model3, and upcoming
Intel Alburn 3D accelerator for Klamath Pentium Pro processor.
Since Lockheed Martin is promising Sega performence GREATER
than current Model3 arcade board for this new home console, it will
blow PSX2 out of water in no time, and Sony will find itself going
back to making TVs and VCRs.

So enjoy your skipping and overheating PSX while you can, because
it will be all over for Sony by 1998.

Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. I am going to play Street Fighter 3. You are going to play crappy
Street Fighter EX. more Ha Ha Ha!!!!!

Yeah, nothing changes LOL

 

[DKHustlin]

Lol I love how wrong hardcore gamers are about pretty much everything

 

[Teknoman]

Well at least we already have an archive section to make things easier for future members Of course things might have been a little worse than they are now, since most advertisements focused on system wars as well.

At least NEC systems were actually mentioned.

 

[MrT-Tar]

these have actually made my day, these are comedy gold. I would've loved to have been older and to have experienced usenet first had.

 

[djtiesto]

I'm too afraid to look through the archives for my posts. Probably really embarrassing.

I think I saw an old usenet post by me where I was trolling western/computer RPGs as compared to Japanese. The more things change, the more they stay the same

This is seriously an awesome look into the past though!

 

[djtiesto]

just read this one, it's late 90s internet as hell. not even going to quote any of it

This is fucking hysterical, I even see a familiar name in that thread I didn't know people actually knew about Joey Buttafuco outside of LI!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Let's take a diversion to rec.games.video.sega...

The latest attrocity committed by the bastards at videogames.com....(VF3TB)

> I cannot believe what I am reading! This Jeff Gertsman bastard absolutely
> laced into it! He gave the game an overall score of 7.1. Graphics...8 Huh?

> All the reviewer does is rip on the game. Nothing really positive was
> said. Nevermind the fact that these ARE the best graphics of any home game.
> Is media bias going to kill the DC before it even hits these shores?
>
I wouldn't worry about it. Gertsman is a well documented moron when it
comes to reviews (try his MGS review)

Who the hell is Jeff Gertsman?

yeah he's the same asshole that gave tekken 3 on the psx a 9.9! Maybe
Tekken 2 deserved a 9.9, but 3? With all that slowdown? Hell no. BTW, I
let him and the main editors have it.

Somehow he forgot that the game runs in a higher resolution than the $10,000
arcade version, as well as has nicer looking textures. But really, I knew
after reading the review (actually vf3 gameplay bash) he was a tekken drone.

The amazing thing...he gets paid to write that crap. Un-Fuc*ing-believable!

some 19 year old Tekken player that videogames.com got to do the review for
vf3tb.

Some quotes from the review:

"those who hate the game usually complain that the game is all about button
mashing"

Ummm... no one says that. Thats Tekken, you lush.

"The graphics in Virtua Fighter 3tb are nice, but they are definitely not
arcade perfect. The most annoying graphical element is the shadows. While
shadows look fine on flat surfaces, slopes and steps completely mess them up,
chopping them into around eight different pieces. The backgrounds have lost
their depth in the transition. The characters look and move very well, though
the skin color of all the characters really looks strange, giving most of the
fighters a very metallic look.

The music is pretty drab, repetitive stuff. The punches and kicks are also
lacking, and the whole thing sounds pretty tinny.

For those of you that haven't played a VF game yet, the game has two definite
levels of skill. At the low end of the curve are the button-mashing combos,
supplemented by a few basic moves. At the high end is a more strategic game,
but the button mashing works so well, that most people won't bother to learn
anything else. "

I don't get it. What is this "button mashing combos" talk? Button mashing
does NOT work in any Virtua Fighter game. Has this person even played the
game?

All the reviewer does is rip on the game. Nothing really positive was
said. Nevermind the fact that these ARE the best graphics of any home game.
Is media bias going to kill the DC before it even hits these shores?

Okay, this is also one of the guys who badmouthed Fire Pro Wrestling,
said PSX XMen v. SF isn't 'that bad' and says the same about MSH v SF
for PSX>

What you have to remeber about Videogames.com/EGM is that it is an
American mag meant to stimulate the U.S. market. They mention imports,
occasionally tell you how to get them, but they never cover them in
depth. C'mon WWF Warzone better than FP?

I guarantee when the Dreamcast becomes avaliable to the U.S. market in
late 1999. It'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread in the
opinion of most major mags...

It should also be worth mentioning that EGM has been Anti-Sega/Pro-Nintendo
for the longest. The latest being the monthlong tearing down of VF3tb before
they even played it and the 1 year buildup and half a million pictures of
Zelda, saying nothing but good things about the game even when they didn't
have a single screenshot. May it also be mentioned that EGM was one of the
biggest contributors to the opening flop of the Sega CD (besides the bad
games) by posting on the SNES vaporware that Nintendo had no intention of
making. They also were the first to put up the DC delays when they were mere
rumor, took them down when Famitsu said they were unfounded with no
explanation, and then promptly put them back up again on confirmation.
Gertsmann's a monkey and tries to tell you how to think. Have you ever seen
a picture of this guy? He looks like Barney from the Simpsons. I still trip
when he said Puzzle Fighter was a Puyo-Puyo clone (even though the
principles are totally different) and saying the only difference between
Xvs.SF and MSHvs.SF is the characters. I would yell at EGM to fire the gimp,
but his style of biased and rockheaded reviews is right up their alley.

Here's a copy of the email I sent to him:
Obviously you're either mad or on crack; possibly both. You'd have to
be an extremely green player to
think that becoming good doesn't reap rewards of any magnitude. I'm by
no means one of the best, and
yet button mashers such as yourself couldn't touch me. You see, it's a
thinking man's game, and there's
no place for your type. Why'd they pick you to do the review anyway?
You don't like Virtua. I'm no
Sega-suck-up, but I'd say you have to be some sort of
Nintendo-geek(since your MGS review was
almost as screwed up). I've played the arcade version of VF3(not TB)
extensively, and am currently
playing VF3TBDC, learning the differences. The graphics get an 8? How?
These are obviously the
highest quality graphics on a console by a mile. The shortcomings are
hardly noticable. The shadows are
the biggest thing, but even they don't stick out unless you happen to
have it in a 2-player match, with no
second player. Are you under the impression that being hard on the
game makes you seem better? I
suppose you're also cynical, mistaking it for intelligence, as so many
do. The music is typical AM2 style.
It is my opinion that it's actually very good(from VF1 to Daytona,
etc.). You probably don't like Army of
Darkness either, do you(the movie)? The voices are great too. Awesome
overacting. I give up. The
whole thing's an intellectual step over your head. It'd be better for
you if you just accepted your level,
and didn't swim in deep water.

He gave Zelda a perfect score, completely overlooking all of its
graphic glitches, including glitches in texturing, repeating textures,
and some obscene frame rate hits and slowdown.

Gerstmann is so pro-N64 that it isn't even remotely funny. His
agenda is almost as inflated as his ego. I consider anything written by
him to be immediately discountable.

>Some quotes from the review:
>
>"The graphics in Virtua Fighter 3tb are nice, but they are definitely not
>arcade perfect. The most annoying graphical element is the shadows. While
>shadows look fine on flat surfaces, slopes and steps completely mess them up,
>chopping them into around eight different pieces.

Huh? Isn't that realistic, and a matter of fact? Has this Gertsman
guy studied high school physics? Has he ever seen real shadows on
slopes and steps? What is he saying?

12/10/98
Hey, this same idiot gave Tekken 3 a 9.9. What a joke. It's graphics and
gameplay a perfect 10? Mr Gerstmann, may you burn in hell for working at a
website that impressionable people read and take for granted your review. I
think EGM should be renamed PSM + Nintendo Power...

No, that proves the guy doesn't have a clue. Anyone who knows anything
about the moves and combos in VF3 will completely shut don a button masher
in their sleep. (A mash friendly game lets you win consistantly just by
mashing the buttons which doesn't happen)

Bottom line: The reviewer is heavily biased towards Tekken. Did you happen
to read his review of Tekken 3 for the PSX? I agree TK3 is a great game,
but does it deserve a 9.9? The graphics are far from perfect in that
version. Again, I stated earlier how much slowdown is in the PSX Tekken
3...that is easy to spot. Even IF he was comparing the Model 3 graphics to
the DC graphics (gave an 8 out of 10), that is wrong. He is quick to point
out some problems with shadows on slanted terrain, but fails to mention that
this DC version not only runs at a higher resolution than the arcade BUT
also has cleaner textures. He can't even back his statements up. He says
the graphics are not jaw-dropping...going on to say 1.problems with the
shadows and 2. (which makes no sense) saying the characters look
metallic...whatever.

It was not a fair review. I'm not saying it is perfect. But to give Tekken
3 on the PSX a 9.9 and Zelda all 10's (including graphics!?!) shows the
bias. I could have given a more in-depth review back when I was playing the
Sega Genesis in middle school.

Well, this guy obviously doesn't know squat about the game, but you can't
expect him to. How many people who are not total VF freaks can tell you
what senbon, option-select, inashi-waza, yomi, okizeme, move buffering,
double/triple escape, and uncounterable moves are? Almost none. They
could have gotten some VF purist to write the review, but they are almost
non-existent in the English-speaking video game media world.

> Who the hell is Jeff Gertsman?

Obviously someone who knows nothing about Virtua Fighter. It would be
like me trying to write about horticulture. I'm a guy, I don't know
anything about buildings.

He is a reviewer at a rather biased gaming website. By the way, I think
the editors of that site are getting irate with us talking about them like
this. Good. Maybe they will see that we aren't fooled by their
"journalism", and clean up their act.

I had a bunch more posts ready to show, but this single one can stand by itself.

Wow. Someone please PM MonsterDunk and get him in here so he can pay for his button-mashing, Tekken fanboy, Pro-N64 ways.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Magic Knight Rayearth....Does anyone even care anymore?

Ok, lets be honest... Who really cares if MRE comes out? I don't... I
remember when I first saw this game back in...what was it? Late 96? I wasn't
too thrilled about it then, and it looks even more dated now. I can think of
SNES rpg's with better graphics. Plus, who knows when (if) it will even come
out?

My thinking on this is that WD is constantly delaying this piece of garbage
so they can have bragging rights to being the company to bring out the last US
Saturn game. But, with the possibility of new games coming stateside, maybe
that won't happen.

Exactly. There is NOTHING of this caliber on the SNES, and
precious few 32-bit games have even achieved this level now.

Dreamcast, looks hotter than hell!!

If this system doesn't put sega over the top, nothing will...

The difference between the launch of the Saturn and the launch of Dreamcast
is that with the Saturn, there's was A LOT of room for improvement. If Sega
has been doing their homework, which I personally think they have, then it
might not be the same case with Dreamcast.
What will take this to the top is that with specs like these, Sega is
shortening the techniclogical leaps that's been going on. I mean, there's
got to be a point when you can't make a system "better" than another. Like
the phrase, "You can't get better than this". Before, you see dramatic
changes from 8 bit to 16-bit to 32 to 64 and now to 128. But what's beyond
128bit, *at a reasonable production and retail price*??? I honestly think
if Sony or Nintendo were to come out with another system, the graphical
differences will be small and few. Maybe just a few things like more ram or
something, but still probably not too much of difference as we see in the 3D
quality of a Saturn compared to PS compared to N64. So what does it boil
down to? GAMES. And Sega sure knows games. Even with a dying system, it
can have 5 games on Japan's top ten. It also have a bundle of very good
Model 3 games out there in the arcade. And with a company that's number one
in the arcades coupled with a system that can outperform most arcade boards
out there, along with impressive exclusive 3rd party developers as well as
being first in the 128bit console race, that's gonna take it to the top. I
think their goal of 50% market share can become reality.
Another 2 cents thrown in....

Dreamcast/Sega in trouble?

Post reply
More message actions
7/21/98
After looking at several game screens I was very dissapointed. That
"seventh cross" or whatever looked so sparse. Just alot of water and
empty space with an occasional pixely tree and a few origami rocks.
3,000,000 poly's a sec. I don't think so. And before you say that they
just don't know how to write for it yet, keep in mind that NEC did that
game, you know the power VR chip guys. Also that "penpen" thing looked
so lame it makes Mario 64 look like a work of art. Is power VR2 good
enough? It was designed with a PC in mind. Even though it will perform
better in the Dreamcast, will it be able to match the PSX2s all new
proprietary design.

Waiting a whole year later to release it in the US will be another
problem. By that time the Project X thing will be out and Sony will be
in full blab about PSX2. What will Sega sell in the US this Christmas?
The Saturn? surely you jest.

Maybe it is Microsoft's fault. They do have a knack for sucking most of
the power out of a system just for their piggy OS and inefficient APIs.

I surely hope this thing is better than it now appears.

hm.. think.......... what Arcade wants Sony to port for PSX2 ? Dirt Dash
from Namco.. hahahahwehahwhha .. ridiculous!

Sony WILL LOOSE for sure in JAPAN if SEGA gates all the Hits from arcade in
the videogame-shops!

FOR SURE!

Up next: the end comes.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Let's take a diversion to rec.games.video.sega...

The latest attrocity committed by the bastards at videogames.com....(VF3TB)

I had a bunch more posts ready to show, but this single one can stand by itself.

Wow. Someone please PM MonsterDunk and get him in here so he can pay for his button-mashing, Tekken fanboy, Pro-N64 ways.

1998: people mad at Jeff for Zelda review
2006: people mad at Jeff for Zelda review

thread continues to be relevant

 

[Lijik]

Let's take a diversion to rec.games.video.sega...

The latest attrocity committed by the bastards at videogames.com....(VF3TB)

I had a bunch more posts ready to show, but this single one can stand by itself.

Wow. Someone please PM MonsterDunk and get him in here so he can pay for his button-mashing, Tekken fanboy, Pro-N64 ways.

Wow, things really don't change.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

VIDEOGAME STORES BLACKMAILED!!!

Today, after a confrence with all of the managers and district manager of all
the Babbage's Ect. stores in out district, (Babbage's, Software Ect.,
Funcoland, Gamestop, and more), we sadly removed all of our Xbox promotional
items.


Why, you ask?

Well, let's just say that Sony is not very happy with the fact that our
company reserved 1000's of Xbox's in one month.


To express how displeased they are with us, Sony decided to BLACKMALE the
largest video game retailer in North America. A company that accounts for 30%
of their Playstation profits. Their terms were that either we remove all of
our Xbox promotional items at all of our stores, or else they will not ship
any of out stores product. Under the pressure, Barns & Nobel, (owners of
Babbage's Ect.), folded.


There's simply too much at steak. Xbox is 9-10 months away and PSX is still a
very big seller, as is PSX software. Minus the PSX and PS2 shipments, we will
lose face with out custamers, and lose profits as well.


This time next year when Xbox and Game Cube hit Sony may regret the actions
they have taken. They will no longer be in a position to threaten anyone.


It has also been brought to my attention that Sony has made simular threats
to the number two video game retailer, EB, and they to folded under the
pressure. Sony has throughly pissed of and angered the people who they need
desperately to be their best frineds; retailers. It isn't hard talk someone
out of a PS2 and into a Sega Dreamcast. I did it five times today.


Sony's arrogance is a burden on the indusry, and will prove to be their
downfall. More power to Sega, Microsft, Nintendo, and Indrema. I wish success
to them all. As for Sony, I think they'll be paying for their mistakes for
some time to come

Of course Sony is doing this. They are desperatley
trying to save face in light of their PS2 launch
fiasco.

I think that the Dreamcast is the most awesome system! It kicks butt.
Why would I want to wait for PSX2? I hope that system fails. It is Sega's
turn again...

X-Box = Lame (ot)

I was in Funcoland the other day, and I was having a casual conversation with
the manager, and he mention that the X-Box has its own theme music. I said
"yeah right", but he went "no,really"!,so he pop in a x-box cd and played the
theme song and it went something like this:
Beeeeeeerrrrrrrrr, MAKE SOME NOISE , X-BOX!!!!
Think you can tell us what to do [yeah]
Think you can tell us what to wear [yeah]
Think your better!!! [yeah]
Will you better get ready to bow to the masters!!!!!


that was pretty much the guts of the song, it was real lame, the only thing
lamer is going to be the actually x-box. X-Box, the jobber of consols.

Sega getting out of the hardware biz and other crap

Okay, with all these 'breaking' rumors flying around about Sega leaving
the hardware business, developing for other platforms, etc., I wanted to
bring up a few points:
1) It's not not news anymore. It's not even 'new' anymore. These rumors
have been flying around since early last year.

2) The hardware platforms that Sega has been discussin development for
include cell phones and other portable devices. Around May, 2000,
Motorola anounced that Sega would be developing Java-based gaes for new
cell phones to be released sometime this year. Sega has never said that
they are developing for any competing game consoles to their own.

3) Sega has repeatedly denied that they are leaving the hardware
business. Remember, it's not only home console hardware that Sega makes,
it's arcade hardware and others as well.

4) SO WHAT IF THEY DID? Personally , I would have no regrets if Sega
left the hardware business and focused on software only. I didn't
purcase a DC because it was groundbreaking hardware, I bought it because
of the games. If I could get all my favorite Sega games on, say, the
Gamecube, I think that would rule. It would allow me to play franchise
games like Zelda and still let me play great games like Shenmue, Jet
Grind Radio, Sega GT, etc. Same goes for PS2 or X-Box. Man, if Sega
developed for PS2, I'd actually consider buying one (though I must say,
Sony messed up not offering 4 controller ports).

Playstation2 or Dreamcast

Most Sega console users don't give a rat's ass about comparisons to the
PSone, PS2, or Ninny, because Sega caters more towards the serious/hardcore
game player and many of us own both system anyway.

This isnt the first time I've heard that, and if its true, Sega are idiots.
If you're going to target a niche market, do it with software. Don't base
your entire hardware sales strategy on it. That's a first rate way to lose a
shitload of cash.

Sega in negotiation with Sony and Nintendo

> what exactly is a set-top-box?

A mythical creature dreamed up by marketing. Everyone's supposed to
want one since it'll play games, connect to the internet, play movies,
and grill cheese burgers, but every single attempt to "give people what
they want" has died a horrible screaming death.

If Sega is looking for the set-top market to keep them afloat then they
are sorely in error.

My biggest worry is that with the rampant reduction on PS2 game prices
and the pathetic software:hardware ratio, Sony might not be long for
this race either. It puts HUGE pressure on Nintendo and Microsoft to
over-come the problems Sega had and that Sony continues to have.

Throw in a growing economic slump and we could be in for another game
crash just like in the 80's.

MSNBC sets the record straight?

I'm pretty excited and interested to see what we are in for. This could
effect me in any number of ways. Dreamcast will be the last gaming system I
buy (save maybe GBA) and if Sega discontinues the system, this is it. I
will support the system to the end though and pick up most all of the big
releases: the Shenmue IIs, the Phantasy Star Onlines, the Sonic the
Hedgehogs, the Crazy Taxis etc. Games similar in greatness and importance
to these will all be in my collection no matter the number of great
releases. I will remain a Sega fan through and through but they won't get
any of my money on other systems, in my opinion the Dreamcast has 3 years of
life left in it and could easily go this distance as long as Sega continues
to support it (it is pretty much dead in Japan already). My suggestion,
make the US priority and release the games here first and then translate
them to Japanese. The US is where the money is and Sega will continue to
lose money in Japan no matter what. Hopefully though the announcement will
be a bunch of blown up BS and everything will continue how it is going,
perfectly. Dreamcast is my favorite system ever already no matter if
another game was never released after Phantasy Star Online. Long live Sega.

come next september ps2 will be outclassed

all these people say how ps2 looks so much better than dc, and it doesen't.
One thing is for sure come next fall xbox and gamecube will both look way
better than both.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

this is quickly turning into my favorite thread on the internet.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

hmm hmm hmmmm

 

[-KRS-]

lol I love reading old usenet posts. Thanks for this thread.
It's so sad seeing usenet groups today, filled with spam messages and no real discussion anymore. And it used to be so good too. Can't they do anything more efficient about the spam? Like a captcha or something, I dunno. Or do they just not care anymore because people don't care about usenet as a discussion forum anymore? Are there even any active usenet groups still?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

holy shit by pure accident i just discovered jeff gerstmann and ryan davis's own secret subgroup

edit: this stuff cannot be reposted in the Internet of 2012.

Share it...

 

[Lijik]

holy shit by pure accident i just discovered jeff gerstmann and ryan davis's own secret subgroup

edit: this stuff cannot be reposted in the Internet of 2012.

If its the subgroup I think it is, theres some interesting threads.

 

[Darklord]

Share it...

Even a PM! You can't say that and not at least show a few of us. We must know!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Not posting it. End of story.

To get back on track, we return to something a bit more memorable for Gaming Age: PS2 JAGGY WARS

The RRV Screenshot Debate Continues

I hope you didn't post devkit pictures ripped from a news site as one other
guy has done, though. Devkit screenshots are way more BS than even a half
resolution screenshot off retail hardware. Any developer can do anything
they want on a $40,000 devkit; doesn't mean the retail game looks the same.

Fucking bullshots!

RR5 is not anti-aliased. I have seen it in action, and that's obvious -
there *are* jaggies; there are, in fact, more jaggies than what you see in
the "smooth" parts of the untouched images there (the numbers and such).
The bottom line is this is a non-anti-aliased 640x480 game, and on a large,
high-res TV it is going to look jagged. I think Chris' comment that the
whole game looks totally smooth in real life is probably due to playing it
on a little tiny blurry screen in his office at EGM, because it goes against
what I've seen with my own eyes, and also what some other reviewers have
said (including some at his sister publication/site, videogames.com).

Judging a system based on a single first generation launch title that
people have said is very difficult to get accurate screenshots from is
just plain stupid. Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

I didn't judge the system concerning it's future releases. I judged the
system with the use of one game, RR5.

The photos and movies CLEARLY show a less than spectacular game.

Furthermore, this game was develped by NAMCO. They are known for
producing very polished, slick products. This excuse making is wearing
pretty thin.

Im not dismissing it because it has graphical flaws. I am dismissing
the SICKENING hype that was shoved down our throats for MONTHS by SONY.
If you are going to strut and gloat like idiots, you better have one
mindblowing machine to back it up. So far, that machine has been proven
pretty mediocre GRAHPICALLY in its first release titles. I am not
dismissing RR5 as a game. I am only making clear observations.

The graphics in RR5 are simply NOT what SONY led us to believe they
would be. It's as simple as that.

PS2: *NO ANTI-ALIASING* ...sad.

Guess the DC (with it's large texture cache and built-in anti-aliasing
ain't so bad
after all. Go figure...

http://ign64.ign.com/news/16295.html

They're overexaggerating the problem, anti-aliasing can be easily done with a
software routine. These game comparisons are also meaningless because they're
comparing rushed out first generation PSX2 games to the lastest DC offerings.

I don't expect too many developers would be
willing to sacrifice performance to get AA - at least not until we get
to a point where developers can cram every little detail they want into
a frame and still have polygons to spare. And I can't see that ever
happening - developers always want more detail than is ever possible.

When a kick ass company like Namco has problems with Ridge Racer V for PS2 ,
I don't think this is an overexaggeration. Honestly, Sony fucked up. Every
video game company has fucked up and now it's Sony's turn. What did
everyone think that Sony was going to be able to recapture the phenomenal
success of the orginal PS? I just think it's funny that all these
developers like EA decided to stick with PS2 only, and now it seems that
their decision has blown up in their face and deservingly so.. Tata for
now!!!

DC has an edge in texture mapping over PSX2?

Am I reading this correctly? The DC will do a better job with texture
mapping than the PSX2, due to the way it maps polygons and texture
compression. Is this correct? If so, that means then that DC games
stand a chance of looking nearly as good, if not better than, PSX2
games.

So, it looks like the PSX2 will use large number of polygons and special
effects to generate great looking graphics, while the DC will rely more
on texture mapping.

It doesn't sound like the PSX2 is going to blow the DC out of the water,
by being "light years beyond" then.

I'm suddenly reminded of the GCNGB trying to argue that the GameCube is superior to the Xbox because of some texture mapping thing.

Yeah, so are the slew of Sony's 3rd pary developers. VRAM may be a little
bit of a problem, but, hardware anti-aliasing will have no effect
what-so-ever on how PS2 games play. have you ever hear a 12 year old kid at
Funcoland complaining about jaggies?

You better find a better fight to pick than hardware anti-aliasing.

Half the vertical resolution. Because of the PS2 using interlacing,
single frame screenshots are at 640 x 240 instead of 640 x 480. I'm not
saying this is the only reason, just that it's the one explanation that
actually fits the technical specs of the PS2.

Professionally prepared screenshots should look better, with both
interlaced screens merged... but it appears that most of the developers
haven't bothered to take the time to do this.

I've noticed the low quality of the screenshots as well as the low
quality on some of the downloadable video of games in action. Try
downloading some of the movies of gameplay in action for Munch's
Oddysey; those were prepared by Oddworld Inhabitants (the developers of
the game) and the imagery seems to be of a higher quality.

Me, I won't fully believe anything until I've seen the games in action
at my local retailers.

Of course the 12 year olds didn't complain. They had the choice of the
Jaggie PSX, the dead Saturn, or the undersupported N64. The jaggied PSX
was the lesser of 3 evils for the casual gamer. That is no longer the
case. Now there is SERIOUS competition (at least in the US and Euro
market) from a system that is cheaper and looks as good, without jaggies
and with more texture detail. The PS2's success is not so assured as many
seem to think.

Could PS2 be a bitch to program for?

To be fair though, Epic (like all other developers) have a long way to
go before they've learnt enough about the console to make full use of
it's power. This is true of any console, but the problem for the PS2 is
that such difficulties could only limit the overall quality of the
games.

Remember the Saturn? A console with similar power to the PSX and
released at similar times, but was also a bitch to program. Only Sega's
own developers were able to push the console and achieve some amazing
results. In contrast, Saturn games from other companies often looked
much worse than their PSX counterparts.

Launch titles 'Ridge Racer' and 'Mario64' were not only excellent
demonstrations of their console's power, but also showed the ease at
which programmers can obtain great results on both the PSX and N64.

PS2's dissapointing launch titles and UT is a reflection of the kind of
difficulties which plagued the Saturn.

So my concern for the PS2 is that (like the Saturn) very few developers
will be able to achieve the kind of results the console is actually
capable of. This means games which, although great, may fall well below
the results seen on the Dolphin, X-Box and even the PC.

However, when the PS2 is *really* pushed, the results should be awesome.

Last point, if rumours are true about the PS3 as early as 2002, then
surely this will be a great mistake on Sony's part IMO, regardless of
any backwards compatibility. What do others think?

Funny, this isn't what Epic told me when I was shown the demo of UT.
Basically what they said is that the current port is pretty much the
PC version with everything running properly which includes all the
levels. However since it's not optimized, it's running at a low
framerate. The game is entirely being run off the EE and hasn't been
optimized for the PS2 architecture. Once they start optimizing it,
they fully expect the game to be running at 60 fps. I asked them how
they felt about PS2 development and what their biggest difficulties
were and not once did they mention that the PS2 was too difficult to
program for. They were quite enthusiastic about it.

They stated it will be 60 fps when they're done and it's optimized.
They also said it would be only a port and they will not be taking the
time to enhance it. The only thing they are changing is the interface
so it's less PC and more console like. Otherwise the game itself is a
pure port with nothing changed. All the models are intact and all the
textures are intact with no alteration. My beef with this thread is
that there were things taken out of context.

Vidoegames.com TRASHES Syphon Filter 2<review>

I actually don't get the Videogames review. He says the mission design is bland
because it alternates between action missions and stealth missions. Huh? And a
convoluted story outweighs improvements to game control?? Umm, since when is
story more important than control?

He also complains that in sneak levels if you're spotted you fail the mission.
Well, (1) the first game was like that too, and (2) there's only like 3 or 4
stealth levels in the whole game anyway, so what's the big deal?

Hmm, that's three Ziff Davis publications blasting SF2 (EGM, Videogames.com, and
OPM) when most everyone else is giving it good to great reviews. Coincidence?

>A 6.6!?!?!?!?! Jeff Gerstmann makes some new friends....
>

Gerstman is the guy who trashed all over Pocket Fighter as well, IIRC.
The man has zero reviewing credability just because he has ZERO Taste.

Hahaha, welp, we're back here again.

 

[MrChocolate]

Pixar was a standard for quality even back in 1989?
Wow...

 

[thefro]

All I see in the OP are articulate posts where no one is cursing each other out for having a difference in the opinion. The language is PG-rated throughout, and people seemed to have been less cynical, even more respectful to each other back then. I've only been on the internet since 1996, but even I can see things have changed for the worse.

AOL adding Usenet was pretty much the beginning of the death of Usenet as a place of civil discourse. They basically didn't care if people trolled and spammed it up.

The vast majority of people were students or worked at universities back in those days on Usenet.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

Wow this is gold. Makes me think that 15 years from now GAF will be loaded with gold.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Wow, they're really, really mad at Jeff Gerstmann.

My letter to this Geritsen person

Hello.

I have posted segments of your review of the Dreamcast game- Virtua Figher
3 onto the usenet group "rec.games.video.sega". The overwhelming consensus
is that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Just because
the DC version is not carbon copy to the arcade, that is no reason to give it
such a poor score. I would like to remind you that Tekken 3, which you got
so pumped over had far more significant flaws. In addition, VF3's graphics
ARE the best of any home fighter, and possibly any home game. You gave Zelda
a perfect 10 when it was full of glitches, and a low frame rate.

One thing that really aggravated me was your statement that the shadows are
in pieces on slopes or steps. Its called realism. As it was pointed out on
rgvs, if you took a high school physics course, you would understand why this
happens.

VF games are button mashers? Come on! That was the last straw for me. The
oh so glorious Tekken game that you revere is a prime example of a button
masher. You are probably one of the reviewers who said that "Myst" was
revolutionary...

In the future, I would ask that either you stick to Nintendo games and
overrated Playstation games, since that is all that you seem to enjoy. Please
assign a more serious gamer to Dreamcast games, especially ones that are
designed for serious gamers-such as VF3TB. Thank you.

: He won't answer because your letter made perfect sense.

I nod my head in agreement. Well written.

Surprisingly enough, he did answer back. He was polite and gave a rebuttal.
But, that doesn't change the fact that he has no idea what he's talking about.

I sent that bastard two letters in the past. He has yet to ever answer
anything I write him. So I carbon copied his fellow editors with my email
message about his VF3tb review. I got a response from one of them. He
told me to submit a reader review.

The first time I wrote this blithering idiot was due to his feature
article about the "history of wrestling videogames". It was so far off the
mark it, it made Nick Rox look like James Joyce. He proclaimed
"WWF Warzone" was the greatest wrestling game of all time, while
he panned the obviously superior Fire Prowrestling S 6 Men Scramble
because he couldn't figure out how to play it. Not only that, but he claimed
that WCW Nitro was actually a good game. I mean, he couldn't even get the
facts straight in the articles!

I refuse to hit videogames.com and I will never purchase another
EGM magazine (not that I do anyway) until they remove this kid from
the staff. I recommend everyone write to videgames.com and request his
removal from the staff (especially in light of all of his other "completely
off the mark" reviews).

He is your reviews EDITOR?? Man, you're worse off than I orginally
thought...

(Chris Johnston stepped in to defend Jeff.)


Does anyone like videogames.com(egm)

I have been a fan of egm and videogames.com since they came to the
internet but recently I've been reading a lot of biased comments of
their writers about them favoring the next playstation over the
dreamcast. I didn't think they were like that but I wrote sresponse to
some guy who wrote an atrocious(?) article about the dreamcast, saying
that he has already lost faith in it. He. I asked him how much sony
paid him to write that article and he said a couple thousand. I am sure
he was joking but....I just don't know if I trust their views that much
anymore. How do you guys think about this?
By the way I have the psx n64 and I am planning on buying the ps2 and
dreamcast I just want to play good games.

Videogames.com is extremely pro sony. They show TWICE as much PSX 2 stuff(The
same old rumor's, Fan letters about the PSX 2, How many more polygon's it is
pushing today ect.) as dreamcast stuff, And DC is out! they show minimal DC
stuff, Medium amount of N64 stuff, And the majority of their site everyday is
PSX 2, And PSX. And when ever they reveiw a DC game they give it very verybelow
average scores. The only time they accually show sega dc releated stuff on
their front home page it is ushually stuff like "How will sega escape sony's
destructive PSX 2?", Or they show a screen shot from a DC game and put a
sentance under it that is from a reveiw, And the sentance is ushually negetive.
It's like they want to turn potential sega buyers off at all costs, they really
suck in my opinion when it comes to reveiws and news from japan...

>Videogames.com is extremely pro sony. They show TWICE as much PSX 2 stuff(The
>same old rumor's, Fan letters about the PSX 2, How many more polygon's it is
>pushing today ect.) as dreamcast stuff, And DC is out! they show minimal DC
>stuff, Medium amount of N64 stuff, And the majority of their site everyday is
>PSX 2, And PSX. And when ever they reveiw a DC game they give it very verybelow
>average scores. The only time they accually show sega dc releated stuff on
>their front home page it is ushually stuff like "How will sega escape sony's
>destructive PSX 2?", Or they show a screen shot from a DC game and put a
>sentance under it that is from a reveiw, And the sentance is ushually negetive.
>It's like they want to turn potential sega buyers off at all costs, they really
>suck in my opinion when it comes to reveiws and news from japan...

I wouldn't say that videogames.com is pro-Sony - they're rather
pro-"popular opinion," instead. They tend to cater more to the tastes of
the average gamer out there who *surprise* owns a Playstation or an N64,
thinks Zelda is God's own gift to gaming, feels that the Saturn sucked
because "Sega can't do anything right," deathmatches in Goldeneye with
his frat buds on Sunday, thinks that "RPG" stands for Rocket-Propelled
Grenade, and whose dollars have made EA and 989 Studios that lucrative
publishing houses they are. Dreamcast information is largely unwanted by
these folks, because "Sega made all those crappy consoles" in the past.
Sony, which is largely a "cool" company among their kind, on the other hand,
merits a large portion of the videogames.com coverage because their
constituency is more interested in said company's product at this time, and
thus more clicks on ad boxes are generated.

I think many of the editorials there seem to confirm it, although I
know a few are very hardcore and have a very positive re: the Dreamcast and
Sega. Trouble is, the fanbase here latches on to every negative review or
editorial and bawls about it for weeks on end, making one or two comments
seem like the sum of the site's total content. From what I've seen, there are
a total of TWO editors there (Jeff Gerstmann and Moira Muldoon) who have,
at certain times, been down on the Dreamcast, and the former of the two has
tastes in gaming largely divergent from that of the hardcore demographic
around here to begin with. On top of that, there's all of four or five negative
articles produced between the two of them: that's a drop in the ocean compared
to the rest of the content they've produced, a lot of which could be construed
as anti-Nintendo or anti-Sony. A lot of the editorial content seems to be
fair-weather friendly: in order to maintain their expert status, they
editorialize around the conventional wisdom of the status quo (ie the PS2
can't fail, Sega has a bad history, You can't compete in Japan without
Square support, Everything Miyamoto produces is top-grade, et al). That's
all fine and well, but it doesn't cater well to the hardcore types who
seem to subsist entirely on denial, or to those of us looking for more
original and substantive takes on the current state of the industry.

Jeff Gerstmann: slave to casual mainstream tastes

In case anyone's reading this, who happens to care about Sega, I'd like to
mention that we do not have an anti-Sega, pro-Sony bias. For anyone who has
made an effort to check out our letters page, you'll find that I'm usually
rambling about Sega and how excited i am about the Dreamcast's debut. Sega of
America certainly has their work cut out for them, that's for sure, and to
deny it would be foolish. Unfortunately we have recently posted a couple of
things that would not sit well with pro-Sega fans, such as a low scoring
VF3tb review and a column by Moira Muldoon which basically conceeded victory
to Sony. Understand that not everyone feels this way about Sony or Sega or
whatever. I am certainly the biggest Sega fan that I know of, and if you
check out the letters page on videogames.com you'll surely see that.
Personally I'm looking forward to DOA2, Soul Calibur, Shen Mue and whatever
else Sega's got up their sleeve (arcade ports, etc). I just wouldn't want
anyone to think we're anti-Sega. We cover twice as much PlayStation stuff,
simply because there's twice as much PlayStation stuff. Simple fact. As DC
titles increse in quantity, trust me, we'll be there.

I had no idea that videogames.com people even scoured this newsgroup,
it's nice to see you though. For me, the biggest problem when I go to
videogames.com about the Dreamcast is just that it seems that the editors
are more critical of the games than any games on Playstation or Nintendo 64.
Jeff Gerstmann was given the review of Virtua Fighter 3 when everyone at
your office knows he hates Virtua Fighter, and the end result shows this.
It's nice to know that one of my favorite fighting games of all time got
knocked on its butt because the shadows broke up. Moira Muldoon in her
incessant babbling failed to compare facts between the two machines, and was
quick to strike down Sega with an incredibly dumb comment: "just one more
little whammy, and it's into the cart with you." She didn't even go on
record with any points that hold the market in Sega's favor. Just to name a
few real quick: Sega have more incredible first party franchises at their
fingertips than Sony will have for quite some time to come, Visual Concepts
(Maker of Madden 94, which I consider the best football title of all time)
makes games exclusively to my knowledge for Dreamcast (989 who?), and Sony
have yet to create a mascot that has the market appeal of Sonic the
Hedgehog. These may seem little things, but then so is backwards
compatibility.

Assuming you truly are the milkman, which I doubt... everyone's entitled to
their opinion.
However, how in the world can you conceed victory to psx2? It's hard to state
anything with solidity(reviews, etc.) after writing garbage like that. I don't
like the reviews, but what really bugs me is how many people you will have not
giving the Dreamcast a fair shake because of YOUR articles, which state
opinions as fact when neither system is out in the U.S....and PSX2, ummm-have
you played this? If everything on paper works out, there would never be an
upset in professional sports, and everyone would own an Atari Jaguar. It's
dissapointing, let's hope people DONT read your articles because if PSX2 wins
the war dominantly, all we'll have to play is Tomb Raider 40. Games are games,
on any system...it's about good games, not about which system is better...it's
nice to start debates, but it gets really sick in newsgroups when there are
immature "system wars" which you are starting....I think N3000 will beat PSX800
hands down. Thank you for listening.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This thread is the frightening realisation that none of us here actually grew up.

 

[revolverjgw]

"Jeff Gerstmann is a bastard" seems to be a running theme since the invention of the printing press.

 

[Brannon]

I may or may not have some... things on usenet.

That is all I will say on that matter.

 

[The Albatross]

Great look. Surprised to see a Pixar mention in 1989. Pixar didn't release their own movie for almost another 10 years, and while they worked on Star Wars and other Lucasfilms, I didn't think that they'd be remotely close to a household name... enough to make an analogy.

Color me surprised!

 

[Optimus Lime]

Eh, as a very regular user back then, I think you're painting a much nicer picture of discourse on the more active public boards. Many people posted that way, but most were just as terrible as any today, though the harshness back then could be left unchecked for hours and days and even escalate into hate crime material when someone practically threatened someone's life or stooped quite low to launch a salvo of extremely harsh insults in an argument...over games or gaming and computer brands.

I agree with this - but, at the same time, Usenet was a lot of fun. It really was the wild west - nerds and gaming enthusiasts, most of whom were already feeling incredibly smug and pleased with themselves to even be on 'the Internet', engaged in relentless, perhaps YEARS long campaigns of argument and conflict. It was insular, elitist, and very, very entertaining.

I'm always worried I'll stumble across something I wrote in 1992, and be horrified at what a douchebag I was. Ugh.

Is this the right time to invoke Derek Smart, for some of the younger GAFers, as one of the most famous Usenet brawls - one which continues to this day?

http://flamewarfollies.com/

Yep. Usenet was fun.

 

[FStop7]

"X-Box, the jobber of consols"

That's a keeper.

 

[FStop7]

Great look. Surprised to see a Pixar mention in 1989. Pixar didn't release their own movie for almost another 10 years, and while they worked on Star Wars and other Lucasfilms, I didn't think that they'd be remotely close to a household name... enough to make an analogy.

Color me surprised!

Luxo Jr. came out in 1986 and got a lot of attention in the tech community that was into CGI and animation.

 

[KevinCow]

I wonder if we found some Japanese card game enthusiast pre-internet message board equivalent from the 1890s, would they already be declaring Nintendo as doomed?

 

[Messofanego]

Subscribed. This is gold, thanks EmCeeGramr.

 

[Zaventem]

Whoever started this crap about the sexism in games should be drug out into the street and have a bullet put into their head.

Hahaha sounds just as bad as the gamers today

 

[RoryDropkick]

God looking at these makes me feel old.. I may have posted a few of those here and there.. RGVS..

 

[pelicansurf]

I can't believe that people were talking/complaining about the same shit we are now, over 20 years ago. Awesome and unreal.

 

[AColdDay]

This is an amazing find!

Great job OP!

 

[Accoun]

EGM was one of the biggest contributors to the opening flop of the Sega CD (besides the bad games)

I love this one.

 

[Jintor]

I can't believe that people were talking/complaining about the same shit we are now, over 20 years ago. Awesome and unreal.

War.

War never changes.

 

[ponpo]

I like all the signatures with ICQ numbers in them.

 

[fastford58]

Having just started to get seriously in to gaming during the SNES/Genesis wars, this thread pleases me immensely.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Microsoft and Nintendo have lost the war

The PS2 is the winner and there is nothing MS or Nintendo can do about
it.

More and more developers will abandon the Gamecube and the XBOX is
next.

And I really doubt that a "Gamecube 2" or an "XBOX 2" can defeat the
PS3.

PS3 will have the largest part of the market and with SONY´s new
handheld, Nintendo probably will lose in the handheld market,too -
because gamers are sick of the Gameboy crap games we get since 1989
and SONY will have NEW and innovative games on it´s system.

I predict Nintendo´s death - they may end up as developer like SEGA.

And Microsoft will leave the business, because they lose more money
than they´ll ever earn.

5) With the arival of the PSP, a lot of people will buy it just because it
has Sony written on it. I'm sure that it will get good software support and
probably quite a few good games. At this point the GBA will look out of
date and a lot of GBA owners will want to switch to PSP. I cant see
nintendo having a new handheld out around the same time the PSP is released
so again like the GC, dropped about a year later.

Reasons the XBOX will kill off the PoS2

Here are the reasons the XBOX will destroy the Piece of Shit Station
2:

1. The PoS2 only has 4 megs VRAM. That's a fucking joke in this day
and age! The XBOX has 64 megs VRAM. 16 times as much! XBOX games will
look 16 times better because of this.

2. The PoS2 doesn't do anti-aliasing. The XBOX has FSAA. PoS2 games =
jaggy pieces of shit. XBOX games = gorgeous, jag-free masterpieces.

3. The PoS2 is a bitch to develop for. The only emotion that the
"emotion engine" is giving developers is frustration! They'd rather be
programming for the Saturn! The XBOX is a dream to develop for.
Couldn't be easier! A six year old could make an XBOX game.

4. MS will spend $500 million on advertising. XBOX ads will be
everywhere! Everyone will want one. The ad campaign will result in
millions of sales.

5. The PoS2 is losing third-party support left and right. Developers
are dropping the system like a hot potato and flocking to the XBOX,
which is more powerful, easier to program for, and has lower license
fees. The XBOX has a ton of Japanese support! All the major third
parties are getting on board. The next generation of major third-party
games will all be XBOX exclusive. The PoS2 will have nothing left!

The XBOX is going to be the best system ever! It will rightly kill off
the Piece of Shit Station 2, and gamers everywhere will rejoice!

I'm not going to get into how you particularly measure how much support
something has, but by applying relativity, the PS2 has a 200 megatons of
Japanese support. And like it or not, Japanese support is what wins a
console war.

Microsoft is SMART, not STUPID!

>Does the PS2 have a hard drive? No. The XBox will.

So will the PS2.

>I'm not saying the XBox will be the cat's ass. It might suck.

Might?

>But at least get your fucking facts straight, Sonysan. The XBox will
>have different features than the PS2.

No it's a PS2 1/2. There's no reason for owning one since every one of its good
games will be out on the PS2 and PC first.

X-Box is the biggest joke in videogame history. Why compare it to Sony? A
better comparison would be to compare it to XFL.

Xbox will be very successful like the XFL

anyone else think if Sega just stuck with Dreamcast it would have done better
than Xbox? Xbox has nothing mainstream, even DC had more games that had
potential to be mainstream but not enough to take on the PS juggernaut. DOA3
is exclusive, big deal, a fighter that isn't from Namco doesn't sell a machine.
Even a Namco figher wouldn't sell a machine without other huge games
supporting the machine. The characters in DOA3 look almost the same as they
did on DC. Gameplay probably wont change enough to spark major interest. VF
can sell machines, but not in this country, anyway that game is on PS2. Jet
Grind Radio didn't sell DCs when it was the first game to have the high
resolution cel shaded look, so why would it sell Xbox when other cel shaded
games are now out? Xbox has nothing that can take on the competition,
Sony has Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, heavy Konami support. That is what is
mainstream worldwide whether you like it or not.

Nintendo will always win the younger crowd. Thats why n64 sold even though the
overall quality wasn't on par with what is expected from them. How can a
machine with Mario, Zelda, and now Sonic fail? The millions of kids will want
this one, and the kids are mass consumers when it comes to videogames. This
one will be under plenty of Christmas trees.

Xbox takes Sega's spot in this war,machine for the hardcore gamer, but they
have a worse lineup then Sega would've had if they were still in this spot, and
Sega wasn't mainstream enough to compete in the first place. The lineup so far
for Xbox is hardcore crap. Sega rehashes from DC, and where is 2d gonna end
up? So far one 2d game only on PS2, not the hardcore gamer's machine Xbox.
Xbox=failure. Higher price, lower quality software.

Also, Xbox will never sell in Japan. No foreign made electronics sell in
Japan, not just videogame consoles. Japan electronics sell in Japan. And one
reason why Sega consoles never made it big in Japan is because Sega was
originally an American company. Sony and Nintendo were always more Japanese
than Sega was which is important to the consumer. Xbox is less Japanese than
Sega. Xbox is not Japanese at all, at least Sega later became a Japanese
company. I will give Microsoft credit for having 1st party Japanese game
developers though. But the end will be bye bye Xbox overseas. That is
important because Japanese game development is important for success.Miyamoto
alone will sell Nintendo machines. Sony has just about every other big name.

In America Xbox will fall in 3rd place. Bill Gates should have spent all of
his money begging one of the major companies to be most loyal to Xbox.

Bill Gates = Vince McMahon. Xbox = XFL.

Nintendo's turn: the media wants to write-off Gamecube now

The media seems to be more than willing to kill the Gamecube with
misinformation and FUD.
Check this out, strife w/ errors and laughable reporting:

http://www.forbes.com/2001/04/02/0402nintendo.html
Nintendo's Game May Be Over

It really is amazing that the writer of this pile of shite, has a
crystal ball, that allows him to see how well the Cube is gonna do. He
states Nintendo's 3rd place finish as if it is already fact, when the
console hasn't even made it to stores yet.

I like the fact, that there are games that I can play with my niece,
as well as the titles such as Conker 2 and Perfect Dark. And alot of
the big N's titles trancend the age limit. A game like Zelda is just
as enthralling to some adults as it is for younger people. Sport games
and racing games are age limitless also.

*Sigh* What I said was the only reason that Nintendo is popular is because of
Pokemon. Which is true. I believe when the Pokemon fad fades out that Nintendo
will be in big trouble.

> Yep, it must be hard being the #1 video game publisher
> with $1 billion/year revenue.

Which once again, is only because of Pokemon. You gotta be able
to grasp these concepts. Pokemon is all Nintendo has anymore
in a year I think the fad will be dead and Nintendo will be in

big trouble.

I like how once you hit 2000-2001, the stupidity takes on a much more recognizable flavor.

Anyway, the next batch will be a bunch of huge threads around the DC's discontinuation announcement.

 

[speedpop]

Don't know how it would have been if I had been online on a Usenet newsgroup at that stage in the 90s, I was 10 in '93 and didn't touch the internet until '98 but headed straight to IRC.

I'm just glad I was fortunate enough to grow up and have multiple entertainment systems during a generation. It erased any sense of blind devotion to a console or brand. If a game was crap when I rented it, then I put it aside and never touched it again. I might badmouth it here or there, but I can't ever recall hating upon something so incessantly to the point of poison. I might throw a jab about this or that these days, but most of it is harmless commentary that is lost in the crowd. Some people make it their daily rite to shit upon a product and I can't help but wonder what is going through their mind when they go to sleep at night.

I'm more proud at the fact that I had the patience and willpower to save up my paltry pocket money (AUD $5 - practically USD $2 back then) every week as a kid/early teen in order to be given the freedom to buy what I wanted. I may have gone hungry a few times and only bought a few games to own a year, but that was enough for me. It was all about the games.

My younger self rocked.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

PøS2 dead by 2002. DC is winning!

On Ebay, it is only getting in the 400's. All those jerks who hoped for
$1000, HAHA. Demand is shrinking quickly.

Dreamcast is hot. With the free keyboard deal at Best Buy and the giftcard.
The Toys R US deal for $50 off, and the N64 deal at $20 off. Great systems
for the price. The PS2 has no chance at all. Wait for the Cube and Xbox.

At Best Buy, PS2 games are already being discounted. $26-$45. Was $50 for
every game. Sega wasn't discounting games so soon. Demand is gone, most
have went for the DC, and even the N64. With the stock market fall and
consumer slowdown, these are better choices. The PS2 section has no people
and is fully stocked. All others are half empty with people around
purchasing.


Just wait until next fall, big PS2 price cuts. 4 systems can't survive. The
PS2 will be the failure. The DC and Cube are definite winners. Remember the
Saturn deal w/4 free games when the N64 came out along with PSX price drop.
Think about it.

PS2 should have a decent 1st and 2nd quarter next year with the release of
Metal Gear Solid 2 in the US. There's alot of people waiting to play that
game, and if Sony cuts down the PS2's price then MGS2 could move quite a few
systems. Heh, of course that's also assuming that Sony can actually
manufacture enough PS2's to put on the shelves. But I do agree on
Gamecube being a big threat to PS2. If Cube and X-Box clock in at the $200
price mark then Sony can start planning for PS3 because it will be all over
for PS2.

And if Konami can somehow see their way to giving us DC owners MGS2 and
Silent Hill 2 then that would be nails in the coffin.

Well its not dead yet. But the tide is turning. Sony better be
careful. If the media jump on the PS2 dissing bandwagon, the public
will soon follow. One thing is certain, sony definitely isnt taking
advantage of the "holiday" season this year. If sony would have had
a million PS2s at launch and 3 million shipped by year's end, it would
have killed the DC in the U$ due to hype alone. But unfortunately for
sony, thats not the case. Thanx to the short supply, DC will prob
outsell PS2 head to head since PS2 launch. If DC greatly outsells
PS2 (ie 2 to 1), look for sega to publicize that like crazy, like
they did with the NFL2K1 vs madden 2001 sales.

Blah, the PS2 is finished in the U$. Like the Saturn, it will be
popular in jap, but jap. gamers are not buying games for it. Thus,
like the saturn, the PS2 is going to die, since jap. gamers alone
cant carry a system. Companies need the great U$ dollar...in the
U$, the Dreamcast is king!!


Speed Devils Online, Starlancer, NBA2K1, Quake 3, Pod 2, NFL2K1,
4x4 Evo, Maximum Pool, online multiplayer, its IN the GAME!!! (tm)

(The list is getting longer and longer!!)

Dreamast's future looks bad.

Oh, you didn't want to do that. At this very moment j03 will be
searching the web for any negative piece of journalism he can find,
then he'll shove it in our faces in retribution.

I don't know about everyone else but I'm really getting sick and
tired of all this counteractive crap. The truth is anyone can easily
find huge amounts of negative crap to through at every system,
and after recent revelations that even includes the xbox.

The real question is, why isn't the system with the superior software
lineup coming out on top? Are Japanese gamers as blinded by Sony's hype
machine as American ones? Apparently so...

> Leaving sega begging for scraps from the DIE HARD arcade fans who don`t seem
> to mind if a game sucks as long as it looks pretty and is "Arcade Perfect",
> Mabye the reason for the DCs failure has something to do with the fact that
> the PSx years have opened peoples eyes a bit, you don`t need to buy a system
> that just has 100s of cool looking arcade ports that have the longevity of a
> common gnat, there are game out there that last you months rather than hours
> with new twists and secrets to unlock, and none of them are on DC

Not that this will matter, as your mind's obviously quite made up. You don't
understand arcade games, as most gamers today don't. They have more replay
value than anything.

DC vs. PS2 (DC wins!)

JANUARY 30th, 2001:

Well,

My console dollars will be going to Sega. I've just sold my PS2 and 5
games to a coworker. It's not that I didn't like the PS2, because the
graphics in the games were pretty good. It's just that I've owned the darn
thing now for about 3+ months and here are the results from the games I
bought/rented/returned, etc...

1) Madden 2001 - Overall, I was pretty impressed. The only negatives I
have for this gamer are (not online, audio commentary is horrible, AI is
pass happy, AI cheats when you call audibles). Other than that, it was a
pretty good game!

2) NHL 2001 - Overall, I was pretty impressed. The graphics are killer in
this game!!! The ONLY two negatives I have with this game is the
stuttering framerate near center ice, AND the fact that the PS2 constantly
spins the disc so fast that the noise from the PS2 is fairly loud.

3) Tekken Tag Tournament - Overall, killer game! I loved the Tekken
series, and this is the best of them all. Only negative I have with this
game is that it would be nice if it PLAYED 3D as well as Dead or Alive
2:HC.

4) Dead or Alive: HC - what can I say. I think it's the best figting game
EVER!

5) SSX - I'm not into snowboarding, but this game is just plain fun. It
and Madden 2001 saw the most action in my PS2.

6) NBA Live 2001 - returned! The game stinks in comparison with NBA 2K1 on
the Dreamcast. EA should have cancelled this game and waited until next
year when they could have gotten it right! NOT WORTH $50!

7) Armored Core 2 - returned! The game would have been a blast if you
could turn around faster.

8) Ready 2 Rumble 2 - returned! The game is just more fun (I haven't a
clue why) playing on the Dreamcast. Possibly due to the fact that I was
able to download a gamesave and access all the characters!


Well, there you have it. I played/owned some of the best games for the
PS2. Yet, with no games coming out for months that I'm interested in, I
just could not rationalize the $600 bucks I had dumped into the system!

LONG LIVE THE SEGA DREAMCAST!!!

JANUARY 31st, 2001:

>I bet you feal pretty stupid now.........
>
>HAHAHAHA! MORON!

Nope! I'd like to see you play Shenmeu or Soul Calibur on any other
platform...oh that's right, you can't...so sorry! Sega is still gonna get
my dollars, because I'm buying another DC this weekend, and probably pick
up some more DC games as well. Why not, I can get 2 DC games, for less
than 1 less than average PS2 titles. No my friend, you go play fantavision
on your PS2, and I'll be playing Jet Grind Radio! PS2, what a joke!

Step 1: Denial
Misinterpretations galore!

Has anybody read one line from a Sega press release that says anything
about games actually coming out for PS2? Does anybody know what kind of
terms Sega would require of Sony in order for releasing games for the PS2 to
be feasible?
Has anybody read anything to lead them to believe that, if Sega does
come to terms with Sony and its PS2, they would support it with current
software, and not cheap and easy ports of last year's DC softs? Beyond
that, has anybody read anything that would even insinuate that their support
would be worldwide?
Also, has Sega said anything, from any of its wings that would say to
you, the consumer, anything *other* than they are supporting the DC full
force still, and have no intention of dropping the platform? Has anybody
read anything to the *contrary* of Sega planning on changing the way
consoles are marketed by giving away the DC hardware, upgrading said
hardware as necessary, and integrating DC technology into other
entertainment mediums, in order to keep developers from having to support
new libraries, and to diversify and widen the DC userbase(as written in ODCM
issue 11, pg 12-13)?
The answer to all of these questions is NO! Idiot fanboys and
journalists alike have lead some of you to believe that Sega of Japan will
cut off support for the DC worldwide. They have done this with absolutely
no factual support.
Those of you that have believed this, either barely have a grasp of the
English language, or you simply didn't take the time to read well into
Sega's actual statements. What makes you think that those translating these
Sega press releases from Japanese have a better grasp of both?

Step 2: Bargaining

Yes - read the press release. Sega is going to focus on software
rather than hardware while continuing to support the DC. That means
once the DC's lifespan is over, there's no more Sega hardware.
Assuming a normal lifespan, the DC's got at most 3 years left anyway -
after that, it's gonna be multi-platform all the way for all the latest
releases. And that doesn't happen overnight - you can assume they'll
be gradually moving from a single-platform developer to multi-platform
over a period of time, starting soon.

Step 3: Anger
Eat this Sega fan-boys!

(Yawn) Just proves that the inferior machine has won again. (VHS vs Beta,
PC vs. Mac and Amiga, PS2 vs. Dreamcast) It's old news, particularly when
the public is as collectively dumb as it is. Christ, look who's
President!

Step 4: Depression
Well, hell, what do I know?

I told Amy two days ago that the media killed the DC, but at the time I
didn't think they were right too. How in the hell did things come to this?
The DC was selling well by yesteryear's standards, why the hell does it have
to sell like the PSX at $99 for it to be a commercial success today? That's
just nuts. The freakin thing sold over 4 million in the US in 1.5 years!
It has close to 300 games out for it now. How is that not a success, who's
calling the shots here?
So what if it's only sold 3 million in Japan, somebody over there needs
to learn some patience. Still going to support the Dreamcast for the next
18 months they say, I'll eat my shorts if the lacky public, retailers and
media even give it past E3 now. That set top box, while a good idea, isn't
going to sell better than the DC is now either.
It just doesn't make any sense. I never thought I'd say this, but this
makes me never want to buy another game, period. I'm not just upset with
Sega, I'm dead sick of the whole idiocy that is the video game industry, and
always has been.

Step 5: Acceptance

 

[ShabbyGevo]

I used to post on rec.games.video all the time. This is a huge blast from the past.

Luckily, nothing I've said has been brought up yet.

 

[Takao]

I've been reading a Game.com news group recently and it's kind of crazy. These guys would drool over literally the 4 games released in a year, and would hope Tiger wouldn't let them down. There was also some weird ass rivalry between them and the NeoGeo Pocket fandom. I guess they were competing for #1 irrelevant handheld. That said, reading it gave me a much better understanding of the Game.com and what happened to it. Seems Tiger had Pokemon and Mario clones in development. Furby was supposed to lead the Mario clone and attempt to be the platform's mascot.

 

[ShabbyGevo]

I've been reading a Game.com news group recently and it's kind of crazy. These guys would drool over literally the 4 games released in a year, and would hope Tiger wouldn't let them down. There was also some weird ass rivalry between them and the NeoGeo Pocket fandom. I guess they were competing for #1 irrelevant handheld. That said, reading it gave me a much better understanding of the Game.com and what happened to it. Seems Tiger had Pokemon and Mario clones in development. Furby was supposed to lead the Mario clone and attempt to be the platform's mascot.

I'm primarily a retro gaming collector, and finding subgroups dedicated to niche consoles is a lot of fun. Have you ever seen Jag Sector 2? It's a die-hard jaguar fansite. And, unlike a place like AtariAge, which respects the jaguar for what it is, people at JS2 will argue till their blue in the face that the jaguar was the greatest console ever to exist.

 

[Nemo]

fantavision... oh lawd, that brings back memories. PS2's launch really was shit, remember the DVD players comments still to the day

 

[Tempy]

Started on the internet in 1992, but totally skipped the 16-bit console generation (despite being a very big 8-bit fan) and was more of a pc gamer. The Quake vs Duke3D fanboy usenet wars later on were very bad. (I also read rec.arts.movies a lot (...and alt.tasteless).) Good times.