I'm really surprised so many people are bothered by this. It makes for an interesting predicament that is unusual for most shows I've seen.
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The Night Of - new crime limited series - HBO Sundays - 90 on Metacritic
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
I'm really surprised so many people are bothered by this. It makes for an interesting predicament that is unusual for most shows I've seen.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Saw the first three episodes. The pilot was exceptional and incredibly tense. The following episodes however have been a bit disappointing. The characters, especially the detective and lawyer, aren't very compelling outside of Nas. The show doesn't have a particular style either, its hard to pin it down. The cinematography feels as if it were trying to emulate someone else's style unsuccessfully, with many close ups of unrelated items to the scene.
Something seems a bit off, I don't know. As if it were trying to be more iconic than it actually can with the realism/slow pace of the story.
However the lead is an excellent actor, and the script is solid. I'll keep watching to see where it goes.
Something seems a bit off, I don't know. As if it were trying to be more iconic than it actually can with the realism/slow pace of the story.
However the lead is an excellent actor, and the script is solid. I'll keep watching to see where it goes.
Uh oh. That's like something a Lost fan would say.
The problem is not that it's slow, it's that this show has no focus or special THING holding it together. What would a season 2 look like at this point? Another crime and then how lawyers, police, and detectives go about their normal jobs?
What is even the premise behind the show? What's the hook? How would you describe the show? "Something happens in New York and people do their jobs."
If it's really just a story about how crimes are handled and what prison's like then this show is bait and switch as fuck.
The Night Of is based on a BBC series called Criminal Justice. It is a drama about the process of the criminal justice system from the perspective of someone caught in it unwittingly. It is a crime drama, not a detective mystery. And yes, if there are future seasons, each season will be about a different person and case. That is how the BBC series was. There is no bait and switch.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
I just thought of something: it's actually a pretty good representation of the justice system
In Stone's opinion it'll seem like it gets better. In actuality, it's getting worse, and nothing's helping.
A lot of people have mentioned him. It's interesting that they focused on him. It could be a red herring or just something to add to the paranoia of that whole secenario.
I look at it as a physical manifestation of his work satisfaction. He's taking these deadbeats like clockwork and taking the pay and going about his life. He doesn't get the respect he wants and helping these guilty criminals is eating away at his consciousness. I'm willing to bet at the end of the series if he helps this case and saves an innocent person we'll see that ailment start to clear up.
I'm not sure if the black guy is anything. I think the show attempting to mess with audience perceptions. Like you've got Tony Soprano's sister leading the rehab which suggests the rehab might play a bigger part later. Or the hearse driver. The motorcycle driver. The cat. The stepfather (played by another prominent former HBO actor). So they're trying to get the audience to figure out all of these outs for Naz, but they might not actually pan out. Maybe Stone figures it out but the justice system has already swallowed Naz whole in one way or the other.
Like others have said, the show isn't going for murder mystery, even if it's teasing us with aspects of it, and is more interested in the minutiae of the criminal justice system.
Like others have said, the show isn't going for murder mystery, even if it's teasing us with aspects of it, and is more interested in the minutiae of the criminal justice system.
And yeah the eczema at this point clearly seems to be about Stone chafing at his lot in life. When he sighs because the new client doesn't actually inspire him to think he's remotely innocent like Naz and his actions afterward tells it all.
I'm not sure it's resonant or important enough to have taken up as much screentime as it has, but I think I understand what they're going for at least.
I'm not sure it's resonant or important enough to have taken up as much screentime as it has, but I think I understand what they're going for at least.
Another great episode, liked that it had a few lighter / funny moments, a bit reminiscent of Breaking Bad.
The one thing I did not like at all was the blonde lawyer lady. That went down exactly as expected and I don't even understand what the hell her motivation was. Unless she's involved in the murder somehow, which would be a very weird coincidence, it just didn't make any sense. Did I miss something?
The one thing I did not like at all was the blonde lawyer lady. That went down exactly as expected and I don't even understand what the hell her motivation was. Unless she's involved in the murder somehow, which would be a very weird coincidence, it just didn't make any sense. Did I miss something?
He didn't know if he could trust him at first and thought he could outthink his existence there and get through on his own. Also I think he didn't want to owe Omar as he didn't quite know what his intention in offering help was or what he wanted in return.
When Omar explained that he wanted his intellectual companionship and realized after more attacks that he would probably not survive his time during trial, he relented.
Because he knew something would be expected of him and he didn't trust his motives.
I don't know if it's just about owing him a favor. I felt that deep down Naz didn't want to believe this prison thing is real. He sees it all as a misunderstanding and he shouldn't be in there. So it is hard for him to internalize the fact that he needs to think like a jailbird and look out for himself. Him asking for help would be him accepting the reality of his situation and committing to learning the system.
Knightmarre
Member
Having never read either book but still knowing the subject of both, can anyone explain why The Art of War and The Other Side of Midnight are "obviously" the most read books?
The Art of War I understand because it's how to manipulate power and intimidate people.
I have no clue about The Other Side of Midnight.
The Other Side of Midnight thing struck me as him trying to appear smart, in the same way he did when he tried to give him the book about the dogs only for Naz to have already read it.
That and I think it's meant to show the idiosyncrasies of a prison library system that it has such a high status. It was a popular book but hardly super acclaimed and it's more known today for the way the movie was handled (it was the studio film that 20th Century supposedly held over theatre owner's heads to force than to book Star Wars, which they had no faith in) than the content.
The book itself is about characters that sneaky and manipulative, so I suppose that could be what he meant, but it's fairly Soap Opera-ish.
That and I think it's meant to show the idiosyncrasies of a prison library system that it has such a high status. It was a popular book but hardly super acclaimed and it's more known today for the way the movie was handled (it was the studio film that 20th Century supposedly held over theatre owner's heads to force than to book Star Wars, which they had no faith in) than the content.
The book itself is about characters that sneaky and manipulative, so I suppose that could be what he meant, but it's fairly Soap Opera-ish.
I don't really get the thing about Other Side of Midnight either. I don't think it's him trying to be smart, because it's about as mainstream as you can get. I just took it as him being literal about it being popular with inmates because... it has sex and crime in it?
Call of the Wild on the other hand, is very obviously a thematic element. A bit too on the nose imo. It suggests that Naz is going to embrace prison life eventually even though he isn't supposed to be in there, and learn how to be top dog. Depressing.
Call of the Wild on the other hand, is very obviously a thematic element. A bit too on the nose imo. It suggests that Naz is going to embrace prison life eventually even though he isn't supposed to be in there, and learn how to be top dog. Depressing.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
I'd just like to say that Mr and Mrs Khan are my favourite characters on TV right now.
I think he set up all of the attacks to wear Naz down tbh
I can see all but the last attack.
Discotheque
Banned
the cut and the fire was certainly Omar's doing. the baby oil thing though nah, i doubt that. dude's just a nutter. very enjoyable miniseries so far. kind of getting sick of these foot scenes though. the joke has run its course lol.
I don't think you can pin the baby oil attack on him.
chicko1983
Member
so now I am leaning to my first theory.
She wanted to die and she had one of her rehab friends (the dude who was in the argument with the dad at the funeral) kill her if she could frame Naz.
That is why she wanted to play the knife game. That is why she gave him the drugs. To knock him out while she was killed.
Stone's video from the funeral will shed some light.
She wanted to die and she had one of her rehab friends (the dude who was in the argument with the dad at the funeral) kill her if she could frame Naz.
That is why she wanted to play the knife game. That is why she gave him the drugs. To knock him out while she was killed.
Stone's video from the funeral will shed some light.
I'm not going to spend too much time on trying to figure it out because to me the show doesn't really feel like a 'whodunnit' sort of show.
But here's an interesting way in which the series could unfold. Perhaps we, as the viewers, do come to find out what really happened. Maybe through characters like Stone in the show finding out, or maybe just from our vantage point.
Either way, we end up knowing that Naz is innocent. But the twist is that the truth never comes out in a way that sees justice being done - the system chews Naz up and an innocent man gets sent to jail (for life, since he rejected the plea deal).
For sure a shitty ending but would certainly create a lasting impression.
But here's an interesting way in which the series could unfold. Perhaps we, as the viewers, do come to find out what really happened. Maybe through characters like Stone in the show finding out, or maybe just from our vantage point.
Either way, we end up knowing that Naz is innocent. But the twist is that the truth never comes out in a way that sees justice being done - the system chews Naz up and an innocent man gets sent to jail (for life, since he rejected the plea deal).
For sure a shitty ending but would certainly create a lasting impression.
So the show is a fairly realistic take on the problems and general suckiness of our justice system. But the problem I kind of have with this premise is that the particulars of the actual case are just so absurd. I was rolling my eyes at the knife fingers game just imagining how that will play later. And then they immediately have sex on the sheets, while while she is bleeding all over the sheets. C'mon. And apparently someone specifically broke in, murdered the girl, and left him on the couch. And then he's caught with the bloody knife.
I mean, Naz would have the same trouble if he was any college kid who got denied bail because he might flee to Pakistan or whatever. But it's hard to see the show as any kind of critique of the justice system when they are going with such an over-the-top case... like what happened to Naz specifically is probably NOT going to happen to you or anyone. Real travesties happen in totally normal cases.
I mean, Naz would have the same trouble if he was any college kid who got denied bail because he might flee to Pakistan or whatever. But it's hard to see the show as any kind of critique of the justice system when they are going with such an over-the-top case... like what happened to Naz specifically is probably NOT going to happen to you or anyone. Real travesties happen in totally normal cases.
CharminUltra
Member
As someone who went into this show blind, seeing Michael K Williams in it was a really nice surprise.
Yep. I think that's why he didn't want to say her name.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
The legal side of the show is good so far but I'm finding the prison scenes to be a bit dull, to be honest. It feels like B grade Oz material or something.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
The IMDB page made it sound like he was in one episode. Had no idea he would be this prominent.
captjohnboyd
Member
Show is just out of this world good so far. As someone who did a little time here and there as a juvenile I can relate to some of the prison scenes and the intense feelings of fear and uncertainty. I don't think I've ever seen a show that uses a protagonist as an audience surrogate so well. The scenes with Naz are incredibly intense. I actually had to take a breather during the guilty plea scene because my heart was beating so fast. A mini panic attack. They really make you empathize and put yourself in his shoes. What would you do? Would you take your chances with such a shitty case? Is your proclaimed innocence worth a possible life in prison, especially as one so ill equipped to deal with the violence on the inside?
I don't think any of the complaints about the meandering pace or "lack" of focus on the plot are really understanding what the show is trying to convey. It's most definitely a look at the inadequacies of the justice system. It's stylized and dramatized but that's surely what the main "hook" is. When told through the lens of the smaller moments, the minutia of trials and investigations and prison life, it really drives home that feeling of a big machine (the justice machine) rumbling inexorably towards whatever target is in it's sites.
I'm not really sure why they're showing Stone's feet so much either but I tend to agree with an earlier poster that they're just physical manifestations of his dissatisfaction with his work and life. Really don't see why it bothers everyone so much it hardly takes up more then a minute or so an episode. It helps me enjoy the scenes more that its John Turturro. He's born for roles like this. Really would have loved to see Gandolfini's take on it though
I don't think any of the complaints about the meandering pace or "lack" of focus on the plot are really understanding what the show is trying to convey. It's most definitely a look at the inadequacies of the justice system. It's stylized and dramatized but that's surely what the main "hook" is. When told through the lens of the smaller moments, the minutia of trials and investigations and prison life, it really drives home that feeling of a big machine (the justice machine) rumbling inexorably towards whatever target is in it's sites.
I'm not really sure why they're showing Stone's feet so much either but I tend to agree with an earlier poster that they're just physical manifestations of his dissatisfaction with his work and life. Really don't see why it bothers everyone so much it hardly takes up more then a minute or so an episode. It helps me enjoy the scenes more that its John Turturro. He's born for roles like this. Really would have loved to see Gandolfini's take on it though
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Also, I loved that shot of the nun texting in the church.
dead souls
Member
Not nearly enough cock to be Oz.
I fully expect the Freddy and Naz thing to end up like Vernon and Tobias in the premier
It's pretty amazing we are still waiting on season two of that show considering how popular it was.
The Jackdog
Member
last episode really bummed me out.
It feels like they are dragging it. Its not that i dont like it im just seeing so many scenes that could be cut and make this a much faster paced 6-7 episode series.
Halfway through and we only have one real suspect. I need some movement there.
It feels like they are dragging it. Its not that i dont like it im just seeing so many scenes that could be cut and make this a much faster paced 6-7 episode series.
Halfway through and we only have one real suspect. I need some movement there.
Yeah I am still enjoying the show but I thought it would be more about the murder mystery but up to now its been a frightening look into the prison system. It is keeping me on my edge, its shot, directed, and acted superbly but with only 4 episodes left I want to see less feet, less prisoner drama, and more crime solving.
It's hilarious that this comes up for every tv show thread here. There is no reason for everything to be fast-paced.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Yep I agree. I didn't think I would like it so I didn't watch for the first four weeks. Binged all of them last night because people wouldn't stop recommending it. I kinda wish I would have waited until the end of the mini-series to watch them all. I want to know what happens next RIGHT NOW!!
RustyNails
Member
True Detective S1 comparisons are so apt. Even in the True Detective OT, people were antsy and frustrated the show was not showing enough investigation and focusing more on the characters/side stories. You can never satisfy some people!
This show is such a refreshing take on the criminal justice system. Hopefully next episode, instead of seeing who actually killed the girl, we get to see the court stenographer struggle to get to work on time because she has a child with autism.
That's the kind of realism that you won't get in other shows.
The "realistic" tone of this is undermined by the comically powerful Omar character. There was that story yesterday about a guy who lived streamed on a cellphone from Rikers. It is being treated as a pretty huge deal and the story mentioned that 10 phones total were confiscated on Rikers last year. Yet The Godfather of Rikers in this show has 6 of them lined up in his private cell along with an HDTV and his own personal guard man servant. Not to mention that Rikers is a jail, not a prison. Why are the dudes there acting like they are in for life with nothing to lose?
Was it ever explained why Freddy is there? I could have missed it
The "bait" is the title of the show and the trailers that played before every god damn thing I watched on HBO for the month leading up to its release. The bait isn't some BBC show that 99% of the people watching The Night Of have never heard of.
The show is about everything except its name. You could argue that's clever irony, but it is 100% bait and switch.
That's the kind of realism that you won't get in other shows.
The "realistic" tone of this is undermined by the comically powerful Omar character. There was that story yesterday about a guy who lived streamed on a cellphone from Rikers. It is being treated as a pretty huge deal and the story mentioned that 10 phones total were confiscated on Rikers last year. Yet The Godfather of Rikers in this show has 6 of them lined up in his private cell along with an HDTV and his own personal guard man servant. Not to mention that Rikers is a jail, not a prison. Why are the dudes there acting like they are in for life with nothing to lose?
Was it ever explained why Freddy is there? I could have missed it
The "bait" is the title of the show and the trailers that played before every god damn thing I watched on HBO for the month leading up to its release. The bait isn't some BBC show that 99% of the people watching The Night Of have never heard of.
The show is about everything except its name. You could argue that's clever irony, but it is 100% bait and switch.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Rewatched the first episode. there are a lot of tiny details they seem to focus on that I can't tell if they are just throwing us off. the deer head statue, blood on the staircase, the weird motorcycle guy that pulled up next to Naz
I'm hooked lol
Same.
the law side of things reminds it's a character in itself
I'm hooked lol
Same.
the law side of things reminds it's a character in itself