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The Official Left 4 Dead Thread

Boonoo

Member
I wonder if the AI Director's roll should be expanded in versus instead of neutered. In campaign mode it'll make things harder the better you're doing, and they could take that same approach in versus but take the score into account. That way if one team is way ahead score wise they would get more thrown at them.

It would more or less be rubberband ai for L4D. The trick would be tweaking it so that it only happens on truly lopsided matches and not on the close ones. It would make 8k scores harder to get, but those games aren't the most fun anyway and generally devolve into the gauntlet by the third or fourth map.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
zer0das said:
It doesn't always work out like that. I've played plenty of bad teams that kept getting favorable situations as survivor and infected, and it never balances out.

The scenarios that I remember were when we had two really good and balanced teams. And whoever got screwed earliest would win the match because the later "make up" would net them a higher multiplier.

I'm not saying it always happened, but it happened enough for me to remember, and it's why I support the current system. Maybe find a tweak or two and change it to the a-b-b-a format and that seems about as good as you're gonna reasonably get. I'm not a big fan of the director determining who should win or shouldn't by inexplicably cheap (or useless/non-existent) tank spawns.
 

poweld

Member
Just want to throw an apology out there for getting fed up with trying to get a match going last night.

I'd said it before, but to reiterate, we were trying for over half an hour to get a game going before you guys came along.

Shit was not happening, don't know why. :p
 

Boonoo

Member
Sanjay said:
And Boonoo damn that avatar.
RAS.gif
 

Davidion

Member
poweld said:
Just want to throw an apology out there for getting fed up with trying to get a match going last night.

I'd said it before, but to reiterate, we were trying for over half an hour to get a game going before you guys came along.

Shit was not happening, don't know why. :p

We still blame you, no worries.

Lots of people seemed to be pissed last night; some at me, some in general. Not sure why. :lol :(
 
MicVlaD said:
Macho Man Randy Savage and Johnny Bravo >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tourette's Guy

Yeah, I fucking love my Johnny Bravo Tank.
"Nobody takes Johnny's Jerky!"
lolol, I actually remember that episode.

FightyF said:
Anyone here play the ultra-realism MOD for the PC version? Sounds like fun to me, but I don't have the PC version...yet.

Yeah, I tried it. It was really good. But the fact that they took away your flashlight killed it for me. And It's a single player only mod. And the Multiplayer gameplay is a Kay Factor in the L4D experience IMO.

Also, If you do try it and then go back to playing regular L4D, you won't have a crosshair. Just type "Crosshair 1" into the console and it'll be all fixed. Just figured that out today.
 

Bunny

Member
poweld said:
Just want to throw an apology out there for getting fed up with trying to get a match going last night.

I'd said it before, but to reiterate, we were trying for over half an hour to get a game going before you guys came along.

Shit was not happening, don't know why. :p

sorry if your invitation was ignored last night, my brother uses my account sometimes.
 
Giganticus said:
that's an extension of the tank parking strategy. when you "park" a tank you move it far far ahead of the survivors in a more effective tank space ie. not narrow hallways where it'll get killed easily. once the AI takes over the tank wont move until survivors get near. we like to "park" it in the saferoom of NM3 if we get it in the sewers or hallways as they are just too narrow to fight in.

however, if before the AI takes over you hit a car over the hole, well, then you screw them over. stuff blocking a doorway or manhole wont disappear till the tank is dead; this is cos valve thought it was fair game for an active tank to try and stop survivors temporarily.

it's a nasty glitch, easily fixed by "is tank dead or inactive but alive -> make stuff disappear", which i'd prefer to having it die after losing control because tank parking is a good way to avoid having a bullshit insta-dead tank.


talking of which, yesterday I spawned as a tank in front of the minigun on NM5, and the AI threw a rock before I took over, cue me spawning with half health, on fire, and unable to move for a few seconds.


Parking a tank is totally acceptable to me, and I do it all the time. Sometimes you're a tank and you know the survivors are hiding under a staircase or something where it's basically impossible to get to them. You decide to park the tank somewhere else, knowing that it will be a AI tank (which sucks) but at least gives it a chance to do SOME damage.

What is ridiculously stupid is blocking an exit and then having the object stay there permanently when the tank is inactive. If the tank hasn't moved for some amount of time, obstacles should disappear. Seems simple enough to me -- and yes, it's what you proposed. I realize we're not arguing here :)


And I hate spawning in front of the mini-gun, or already on fire. It's so frustrating and stupid. I don't see why they would spawn you as a tank while in view of the opposing team. It just doesn't make sense to do it.
 
timetokill said:
Parking a tank is totally acceptable to me, and I do it all the time. Sometimes you're a tank and you know the survivors are hiding under a staircase or something where it's basically impossible to get to them. You decide to park the tank somewhere else, knowing that it will be a AI tank (which sucks) but at least gives it a chance to do SOME damage.

What is ridiculously stupid is blocking an exit and then having the object stay there permanently when the tank is inactive. If the tank hasn't moved for some amount of time, obstacles should disappear. Seems simple enough to me -- and yes, it's what you proposed. I realize we're not arguing here :)


And I hate spawning in front of the mini-gun, or already on fire. It's so frustrating and stupid. I don't see why they would spawn you as a tank while in view of the opposing team. It just doesn't make sense to do it.
Yeah parking a tank can be a great strategy if it's done effectively. And they still haven't fixed the path blocking bug on 360? FFS man.

And the spawning thing is due to the fact that a tank actually spawns when you see the "Tank is Approaching" screen. An AI is in control from the time the tank spawns to the time you take over. So for those few seconds before you take over the AI moves the tank toward the survivors and gets in their line of fire. The game doesn't actually spawn the tank there though. A huge flaw nonetheless. I really wish they would fix it. Although for 360 I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon. :p
 
BrightYoungThing said:
Yeah parking a tank can be a great strategy if it's done effectively. And they still haven't fixed the path blocking bug on 360? FFS man.

And the spawning thing is due to the fact that a tank actually spawns when you see the "Tank is Approaching" screen. An AI is in control from the time the tank spawns to the time you take over. So for those few seconds before you take over the AI moves the tank toward the survivors and gets in their line of fire. The game doesn't actually spawn the tank there though. A huge flaw nonetheless. I really wish they would fix it. Although for 360 I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon. :p



Actually, I'm playing on PC/Steam. The path-blocking bug still exists on PC, which is what makes it really unacceptable in my opinion.

I know why you often get control of the tank inside fire or something, but I was just pointing out the flaw in it. The tank should be in a hidden location until a player gets control. It's just annoying to become the tank and then be stuck standing somewhere while your life drains away.
 

Amir0x

Banned
This game is a cruel mistress. So I go to finish getting my last L4D achievement w/ my friends (all 1000 now!), and somehow we convince each other to play versus against random pubs.

Release the patch damn it. A "couple of weeks" is only 2 weeks by my estimation. PLZ Valve :mad:
 
Amir0x said:
This game is a cruel mistress. So I go to finish getting my last L4D achievement w/ my friends (all 1000 now!), and somehow we convince each other to play versus against random pubs.

Release the patch damn it. A "couple of weeks" is only 2 weeks by my estimation. PLZ Valve :mad:


:lol :lol After all that talk about quitting the game until a patch.

I would like to know if Valve has at least submitted the patch yet or if they're still waiting. At least some information would be nice.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
I only got this game on saturday...but what issues are people having with the game?

I haven't really come across any issues...except people at the start of the first act in No Mercy jumping down the building skipping the first building sequence. Also the smashing of the grating at a later point...
 

LunaticPuma

dresses business casual
Anyone have any tips on picking up Lamb 2 Slaughter achievement? It's the last versus achievement I need. I want to get it so I can focus on campaign.
 

Baker

Banned
I have a few more noobish questions since I started playing the game again. Think they're all related to Vs.

1. In at least the last three matches, someone on the other team has carried a propane tank with the them the entire game. Is this to set up some exploit later on or is there a "melee only" achievement or something?

2. What is bot whoring? I was playing solo against a team of four Brits. I figured I'd just be a nice guy and not quit since that would have ended their game. Halfway through the game, they started bombarding me with Live Messages like "stop bot whoring you wanker." I was the only human on my team, what was I supposed to do?

3. Does the upcoming patch nerf melee attacks or at least give the Infected more options against turtling teams? The end of Blood Harvest last night was fucking ridiculous. They all just huddled in the downstairs corner by the outside part you can break down. I seriously don't think they took 1hp of damage. Two ducked in front and just hit LT for ten minutes and the others just held down the auto shotgun button. I understand it's a smart and valid strategy, but it gets kind of boring.

4. I've beaten, and I think survived all four episodes. Why can I only choose No Mercy and Blood Harvest in Versus?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Baker said:
I have a few more noobish questions since I started playing the game again. Think they're all related to Vs.

1. In at least the last three matches, someone on the other team has carried a propane tank with the them the entire game. Is this to set up some exploit later on or is there a "melee only" achievement or something?

In No Mercy 3, you can use the propane tank (oxygen tank?) to move the glitched out generator if infected try to black the exit of the elevator.

Otherwise fuel tanks can be carried to light tanks on fire or provide cover during climax events. But carrying it for all the entire rounds is dumb and there's no incentive for it either.

Baker said:
2. What is bot whoring? I was playing solo against a team of four Brits. I figured I'd just be a nice guy and not quit since that would have ended their game. Halfway through the game, they started bombarding me with Live Messages like "stop bot whoring you wanker." I was the only human on my team, what was I supposed to do?

Sounds like they're doing the simpering "fuck I hate aim bots" chant. A team versus 3 aim bots is going to have a very difficult time taking out survivors. They can see through walls, they follow you with their eyes even before you spawn in, they'll headshot you from clear across the level. It can be very frustrating.

But there is nothing you can do about it, and the other team are the actual wankers.

Baker said:
3. Does the upcoming patch nerf melee attacks or at least give the Infected more options against turtling teams? The end of Blood Harvest last night was fucking ridiculous. They all just huddled in the downstairs corner by the outside part you can break down. I seriously don't think they took 1hp of damage. Two ducked in front and just hit LT for ten minutes and the others just held down the auto shotgun button. I understand it's a smart and valid strategy, but it gets kind of boring.

They "normalize" melee damage for infected. I think it's 6 damage per swipe now for hunters, and 4 damage per swipe for the smokers and boomers. It's definitely significantly toned down since that's forty percent reduction on the previous damage level.

And as for the survivors melee, they do make it more difficult for them to melee a pouncing hunter...but it's still very difficult to combat a turtling team like that, iirc.

I agreed with earlier sentiment of perhaps giving the tank an AOE swipe, so that he can go in and hit all the team at once, or an infected ability that released a small poison cloud that floats in an area and causes sustained consistent damage until they exit the area.

But for now, the best thing to take down turtling survivors is to get a boomer to boom, run in and swipe a lot, if you get lucky you can get meleed behind them and take a bunch of swipes before they notice. And of course if you're smart you'll coordinate with the boomer bile and your tank, and when you know the rescue vehicle is coming since they'll have to leave their corner then.

Baker said:
4. I've beaten, and I think survived all four episodes. Why can I only choose No Mercy and Blood Harvest in Versus?

The other two campaigns are not available for versus at this time. They will be added later, apparently, alongside some DLC.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Amir0x said:
This game is a cruel mistress. So I go to finish getting my last L4D achievement w/ my friends (all 1000 now!), and somehow we convince each other to play versus against random pubs.

Release the patch damn it. A "couple of weeks" is only 2 weeks by my estimation. PLZ Valve :mad:

...I thought you quit forever (until the patch at least)? :lol :lol :lol

PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Blizzard said:
...I thought you quit forever (until the patch at least)? :lol :lol :lol

PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED.

Yeah I thought I did too. I mean they still don't want to play, but I think I made them all tempted when I asked them to help me get my last achievement.

we were all getting my safety first achievement, and after we did it they were all

"soooo..."
"yeah what's up"
"the dream team is together"
"yeah...and?"
"wanna...versus?"

And so we all agreed to the dark deed. L4D is at its core such a solid game, and a great concept, it is just obscene how long VALVE is allowing 360 players to live with an essentially broken multiplayer experience.
 
Playing versus earlier and the dude we were playing against did something hilarious. 3 of them left while waiting for the elevator, when it finally arrives we manage to totally destroy two out of the three remaining survivors, incapacitating them before they could get on. When they finally close the elevator door, Bill and Francis are both gray and bleeding out while Louis still had about 70HP and a medkit. Guess he didn't want to choose who to got to live so instead of healing one of them, he opted use the medkit on himself, leaving his two other teammates to be easily killed by swipes as soon as they got out of the elevator.

What I would have given to read what was being said in their team messages. :(
 
Pop On Arrival said:
I really can't think of a decent compromise that would appease both sides.

1) Witch/Tank spawns within X% of previous round's spawn. Example: Say Team A runs into a Tank at 43% level progress. Team B will run into a Tank in the range of 35-50% level progress. Not the same exact placement but still similar enough to keep the game balanced.
2) Witch/Tank spawns within X% of Survivor team, on the direct path. Too many times I've Tank-spawned at the bottom of an elevator shaft or so far ahead of the Survivors that I can't get to them before I lose control. Forced spawning within a certain percentage guarantees that the Tank will spawn close enough to the Survivors to allow the Tank to do some damage and reduce the amount of Survivor prep time.
3) Items based on time, progress percentage, player health, with severe caps and penalties. The worse a Survivor team is doing, the more items they may come across, but the AI Director will also crank up Tank frequency, horde frequency, etc. This will keep item usage balanced: while the Survivors may be getting more pills or molotovs than usual, they'll also be having to use them much more frequently, which in turn will keep their item inventories low, which means the Infected won't be as frustrated during the important moments.

Those are just off the top of my head, and I'm sure they can be significantly improved.
 

BobsRevenge

I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
I don't know why, but I feel like the game has lost a lot of charm since the patch.... and it isn't all because of the patch or something.

Like, the people just aren't as cool as they used to be or something. Or maybe I just feel less inspired when I play.

Actually, I probably just played the game way too damn much and have grown tired of it. :|
 

Zeliard

Member
BobsRevenge said:
I don't know why, but I feel like the game has lost a lot of charm since the patch.... and it isn't all because of the patch or something.

Like, the people just aren't as cool as they used to be or something. Or maybe I just feel less inspired when I play.

Actually, I probably just played the game way too damn much and have grown tired of it. :|

This pretty much happened to me, and I know from past experiences with other games that it's me rather than the game. A game comes out that I like a lot, and I play it a shitload, but I inevitably play it so much in such a relatively short span that I get burned out and don't touch it again for a while. This also happened to me with Fallout 3 (which I'm starting to feel ready to hop back into). It's like eating too much chocolate too quickly and getting sick from it.

I'd say, do what I'm doing and play some TF2 to offset L4D and still get that Valve fix. ;)
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
BobsRevenge said:
I don't know why, but I feel like the game has lost a lot of charm since the patch.... and it isn't all because of the patch or something.

Like, the people just aren't as cool as they used to be or something. Or maybe I just feel less inspired when I play.

Actually, I probably just played the game way too damn much and have grown tired of it. :|

Even though it sucked when only one team would get tanks and witches, I think it kept the game from getting too competitive. If you wanted to play the game, you were forced to be more relaxed and easy going.
 
BobsRevenge said:
Actually, I probably just played the game way too damn much and have grown tired of it. :|
It's this.

For me, before the patch, the game was so tense mainly because I worried about how to address glitches and exploiters. Now I can chill and play the game as it should be, so it's less tense in public games, but with friends, it's still a fucking blast. 4v4 with organized teams will never stop being a rush.
 
Also, can someone explain what's going on with the Lamb to slaughter achievement?
When I go in game and look at my achievements, it says I have completed it. But when I look at my stats page on steam, it says I don't have it. And the other day I incapped someone who left the safe room and it didn't give it to me.
 

MMaRsu

Member
BobsRevenge said:
I don't know why, but I feel like the game has lost a lot of charm since the patch.... and it isn't all because of the patch or something.

Like, the people just aren't as cool as they used to be or something. Or maybe I just feel less inspired when I play.

Actually, I probably just played the game way too damn much and have grown tired of it. :|

Do you have it on 360?
 

Capndrake

Member
SundaySounds said:
Also, can someone explain what's going on with the Lamb to slaughter achievement?
When I go in game and look at my achievements, it says I have completed it. But when I look at my stats page on steam, it says I don't have it. And the other day I incapped someone who left the safe room and it didn't give it to me.
It's been like this since the game came out. You can achieve it, but it won't be displayed as achieved on your Steam page.
 

FightyF

Banned
SundaySounds said:
Yeah, I tried it. It was really good. But the fact that they took away your flashlight killed it for me. And It's a single player only mod. And the Multiplayer gameplay is a Kay Factor in the L4D experience IMO.

Also, If you do try it and then go back to playing regular L4D, you won't have a crosshair. Just type "Crosshair 1" into the console and it'll be all fixed. Just figured that out today.


Thanks for the impressions, I may pick it up once formal support for MODs come into play (thus hopefully allowing for MP MODs).

I agree, the flashlight removal seemed dumb.

A better idea would be to have the flashlight run on batteries, and fade out over time. So you would have to use them sparingly when you play. Of course, a battery powerup should be available.

I should email the creator with that idea.
 

Daigoro

Member
Amir0x said:
"soooo..."
"yeah what's up"
"the dream team is together"
"yeah...and?"
"wanna...versus?"

i wish i had a dream team to help with the harder co-op achievements. its going to take me forever to get Nothing Special and Upset Stomach. :/
 
timetokill said:
Actually, I'm playing on PC/Steam. The path-blocking bug still exists on PC, which is what makes it really unacceptable in my opinion.

I know why you often get control of the tank inside fire or something, but I was just pointing out the flaw in it. The tank should be in a hidden location until a player gets control. It's just annoying to become the tank and then be stuck standing somewhere while your life drains away.
Really? I play on PC and every time a path is blocked the item disappears after a while. I figured they had fixed it. Sorry for falsely assuming, I just thought I had seen you say you played 360 a while back. Must have been someone else.
 
Davidion said:
Ooooooooh, you're midnight train.

And you're not really Dave.
>: D

Red Scarlet said:
That requires turning cheats on, so in order to get that fix to work, you (or someone else that's playing) the vs match has to be hosting in order to get the reset to activate, no?

Just do it in single player.
 

firex

Member
man, I really hate the at-large community for this game. seems like any time I try public games on PC I run into the stupidest people. it's like all the shit talking epeen dumbfucks from CS hopped onto this game, along with people who take it too seriously, and then all the battle.net level asshats.

edit: of course, I like GAF games because there's none of that really. it's just that it's pointless for me to try public games anymore.
 

Red Scarlet

Member
SundaySounds said:
And you're not really Dave.
>: D



Just do it in single player.

Just activate it in single player? But going by the posts in Crooked Rain's link, the reset de-activates..or do you mean start a single player game, put that piece of code in, then go into a vs?
 
Red Scarlet said:
Just activate it in single player? But going by the posts in Crooked Rain's link, the reset de-activates..or do you mean start a single player game, put that piece of code in, then go into a vs?
Once you run the command, the achievement should be permanently cleared until re-earned.
 
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