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The Official Street Fighter IV Thread of FADCing a Stranger in the Alps

K

KuroNeeko

Member
Hey everyone,

Just two questions for you.

1) Watching the Keystone II stream about a week or two back, Seth Killian said that he wanted to teach everyone how to really watch replays. He mentioned that there was a difference between just watching one and learning something from it. He said a lot of people stick with the former and I was just curious about what you think about this? How are you supposed to watch a replay to learn something? What should you be looking for? The one thing he mentioned (before he was cut off) was you should be watching for times when you're taking unnecessary risks. A lot of people tend to act just for the sake of doing something which can expose yourself to attacks when you'd be better off playing it safe. I noticed that a lot today, I eat a lot of random / wake-up ultras because I get too greedy to tick-throw or harass my opponent with Chun. Sucks hard core. Anything else that you look for or would recommend when watching replays?

2) Reading an interview with Valle on Iplaywinner.com>SonicHurricane.com there was the following passage:

Valle interview said:
Maj: Which characters would you recommend to a beginner or someone who’s played fighting games casually before but wants to get serious with SF4?[/I}

CaliPower: I would recommend the character that relates to their personality. Next, the player has to find their strengths and weaknesses to develop a strategy. Street Fighter is a game to find out what kind of player you are, then apply what you know without messing up. =)
Click to expand...


Of course, here is the counter-argument.

Where do you stand on this? Like I've posted before, I'm a new player to fighting games but I was determined not to play Ryu / Ken / Gouki simply because I was under the impression that everyone plays those characters and I wanted to do things my way (lol). As a result, I stuck with Chun, Rose, Fuerte, and Claw simply because I liked them. With the help of you guys, I'm doing better now (win ratio: 10%→26%), but I bet it would have been a lot smoother if I had picked Ryu / Sagat / Gief. I just found that Claw / Chun's pokes meshed with my playstyle.
100+ hours into the game and I just discovered how great Chun's s.mp is - praise jeebus.
In Super, I can't wait to try Ibuki, but I'm pretty sure she won't fit my playstyle. I'm already thinking that Adon / Juri will probably be a better fit. We'll see.

Sirlin makes the point that if the same tools are available to everyone, you're only handcapping yourself if you don't pick the best tool in the box. Where do you stand on this issue? Find the character that meshes with your personality? Or is it a case of "If you wanna win u - pick a f`cking top tier?"
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
TurtleSnatcher said:
totally free.
Click to expand...
why are you always hurting me. ;_;

When I originally started out my win% was around 10%. I ended up getting so frustrated trying the to beat the game with Dan on easiest that I took the game back within the first month.
Click to expand...
being my first fighter in the last decade, it took me 89 tries to beat seth with ryu to unlock sakura [who i only wanted because shes my puzzle fighter main xD], so i can appreciate how that feels. :lol
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
Hmm I'm watching the recorded tokyo event and was wondering why some people there have a full clinical mask on? Just seemed peculiar, haven't heard of any epidemic or anything like that over there...
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
DarkoMaledictus said:
Hmm I'm watching the recorded tokyo event and was wondering why some people there have a full clinical mask on? Just seemed peculiar, haven't heard of any epidemic or anything like that over there...
Click to expand...
japan is alot like madagascar.

if someone sniffles on a cold night, you close the fucking port.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Lost Fragment said:
gfw anyone? papertiger80
Click to expand...
Diablohead UK, but it will have to be later tonight if possible.

Still need to get 500 online plays, close to it now I think :D

Lost Fragment said:
Aw shit.

f2elv.png


It's the world famous zeeshan. If only the connection wasn't ass. 2-bar connection on SF4 PC = 0-bar connection on 360, apparently.
Click to expand...
I played him a few times, think I lost but I recognise that username/url and that horse image
 
AZ Greg

AZ Greg

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Sirlin makes the point that if the same tools are available to everyone, you're only handcapping yourself if you don't pick the best tool in the box. Where do you stand on this issue? Find the character that meshes with your personality? Or is it a case of "If you wanna win u - pick a f`cking top tier?"
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Sirlin's point is in the context of the highest level of play. Naturally, when the players with the most experience, most time spent practicing, highest level of competition to practice against, and best execution pick the best characters then it's going to be hard to beat them when you're not stacking up in the one area you have no control over, character balance. That said, SF4 is pretty balanced and virtually any character can win. Maybe not consistently in a double elimination, multiple set tournament against some of the best players in the world, but you can still get some wins and be a threat. And if that allows me to use the character I like as opposed to picking based on tier then that's all I need out of character balance. I'm sure my feelings would be a little different if I were trying to consistently win tournaments and make money, but for now it's just about the fun.

Also, I've mained Claw since launch and my win % with him is probably around 80%. And, while only online, I've faced a lot of good players. I think too many people look to blame tier positioning, both to justify their own losses and their opponents wins, when they should be looking at themselves.
 
LowParry

LowParry

Member
IF only the Blanka fights were a little more easier on the edges with Claw. That green bastard has some crazy air priority. Have to be sneaky and get the guy cornered to stand a chance. And that usually works a good 75% of the time unless that Blanka player is top notch. Then my % of winning goes down to like 1%. :lol
 
A

Attack You

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Hey everyone,

Just two questions for you.

1) Watching the Keystone II stream about a week or two back, Seth Killian said that he wanted to teach everyone how to really watch replays. He mentioned that there was a difference between just watching one and learning something from it. He said a lot of people stick with the former and I was just curious about what you think about this? How are you supposed to watch a replay to learn something? What should you be looking for? The one thing he mentioned (before he was cut off) was you should be watching for times when you're taking unnecessary risks. A lot of people tend to act just for the sake of doing something which can expose yourself to attacks when you'd be better off playing it safe. I noticed that a lot today, I eat a lot of random / wake-up ultras because I get too greedy to tick-throw or harass my opponent with Chun. Sucks hard core. Anything else that you look for or would recommend when watching replays?

2) Reading an interview with Valle on Iplaywinner.com>SonicHurricane.com there was the following passage:



Of course, here is the counter-argument.

Where do you stand on this? Like I've posted before, I'm a new player to fighting games but I was determined not to play Ryu / Ken / Gouki simply because I was under the impression that everyone plays those characters and I wanted to do things my way (lol). As a result, I stuck with Chun, Rose, Fuerte, and Claw simply because I liked them. With the help of you guys, I'm doing better now (win ratio: 10%→26%), but I bet it would have been a lot smoother if I had picked Ryu / Sagat / Gief. I just found that Claw / Chun's pokes meshed with my playstyle.
100+ hours into the game and I just discovered how great Chun's s.mp is - praise jeebus.
In Super, I can't wait to try Ibuki, but I'm pretty sure she won't fit my playstyle. I'm already thinking that Adon / Juri will probably be a better fit. We'll see.

Sirlin makes the point that if the same tools are available to everyone, you're only handcapping yourself if you don't pick the best tool in the box. Where do you stand on this issue? Find the character that meshes with your personality? Or is it a case of "If you wanna win u - pick a f`cking top tier?"
Click to expand...

1) When watching your own replays, you can see for yourself where you left opportunities on the table to score damage, or where your defense/recovery fails you. Most of these revelations come from realizing and understanding that you have options where you previously thought you had none. You say you eat damage going for tick-throws. What else can you do with Chun-Li after an opponent blocks your attack that'll minimize your chances of taking damage? :) You may also want to take note of how often your attack patterns repeat themselves in the same round. Learn different approaches, so that when your opponent figures one out, you can go to another, and another, and another.

2) You shouldn't let other people tell you who to use. You're probably well-suited for Ryu or Zangief and spent all this time avoiding them for no good reason. The real downside to picking popular characters is that most people have fought enough matches against them to build solid strategies for dealing with them. In the very least, you picked characters you liked and enjoyed using, instead of just going straight for upper-tier and forcing an incompatible character down your own throat. Some characters really do have uphill battles against other characters, though. If you want to minimize those situations, that's generally when you pick upper tier. But, that's all that's good for: minimizing disadvantages. There are still disadvantages to take...advantage of, however small and few. This is when learning match-ups becomes important, so that you understand what moves/positions/situations put your character at risk vs. another character. Counterpicking can only get you so far.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Hey everyone,

Just two questions for you.

1) Watching the Keystone II stream about a week or two back, Seth Killian said that he wanted to teach everyone how to really watch replays. He mentioned that there was a difference between just watching one and learning something from it. He said a lot of people stick with the former and I was just curious about what you think about this? How are you supposed to watch a replay to learn something? What should you be looking for? The one thing he mentioned (before he was cut off) was you should be watching for times when you're taking unnecessary risks. A lot of people tend to act just for the sake of doing something which can expose yourself to attacks when you'd be better off playing it safe. I noticed that a lot today, I eat a lot of random / wake-up ultras because I get too greedy to tick-throw or harass my opponent with Chun. Sucks hard core. Anything else that you look for or would recommend when watching replays?
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that seth thing myself.

On the most basic level, I look at what moves were used/what hit/what didn't.

Then on the next level, you look for set ups basically. How did each player approach the match up and condition their opponent. Basically instead of how they fought their opponent, you ask why they made such a move/set of moves. This is only theory, because you'll never know exactly what the players are thinking while you're watching the video. But if you know the characters involved (especially the one you use), and their options in the matchup, you can discern their style.

But like you I'm waiting for that Seth blog post so there is probably more to it.

I'm reminded of an extremely ballsy Chun-Li player I saw on the FADC stream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKOT_Fhr-Yw

Taking unnecessary risks amounts to basically when you don't acknowledge how your opponent can attack/punish you. It's not a bad thing, because at times you do have to take risk or nothing will happen. The difference between a strong player though is being able to take whole risk/reward in account. If x happens for example I'm ahead, but if y happens I'm still ahead but not as much. In the case of your greed, if you know you're playing a type of player who isn't afraid to do random ultras, then you should try and bait them into whiffing it. Or you should only be greedy if after taking a random ultra, you'll still have control of the match.

I think Haunts and even Daigo said that although videos can help you learn how to play a character initially, eventually you have to take the reins of your own character and discover your own style of play. What you prefer to do over everyone else. You discovered one of Chun-Li's good pokes, so with your own experience, you should learn how to best yield that weapon.

2) Reading an interview with Valle on Iplaywinner.com>SonicHurricane.com there was the following passage:

Of course, here is the counter-argument.

Where do you stand on this? Like I've posted before, I'm a new player to fighting games but I was determined not to play Ryu / Ken / Gouki simply because I was under the impression that everyone plays those characters and I wanted to do things my way (lol). As a result, I stuck with Chun, Rose, Fuerte, and Claw simply because I liked them. With the help of you guys, I'm doing better now (win ratio: 10%→26%), but I bet it would have been a lot smoother if I had picked Ryu / Sagat / Gief. I just found that Claw / Chun's pokes meshed with my playstyle.
100+ hours into the game and I just discovered how great Chun's s.mp is - praise jeebus.
In Super, I can't wait to try Ibuki, but I'm pretty sure she won't fit my playstyle. I'm already thinking that Adon / Juri will probably be a better fit. We'll see.

Sirlin makes the point that if the same tools are available to everyone, you're only handcapping yourself if you don't pick the best tool in the box. Where do you stand on this issue? Find the character that meshes with your personality? Or is it a case of "If you wanna win u - pick a f`cking top tier?"
Click to expand...

It's funny you mention that video. I think it presents actually multiple situations when it comes to character selection. You have Sabin who chose Dhalsim who is mid-low tier and stuck with him, IloveuJoe who chose Sagat and ended up being the best and Sanford, who switched to Akuma/Cammy because they were better.

There's no right or wrong when it comes to character selection. It's just if you pick someone with lower viability, you have to be responsible about their disadvantages. When you play, more than likely you're going to undercut your characters strengths and remember their weaknesses more. You're only human. This style vs tier placings debate should resolve with you coming to a decision on how best are you going to enjoy this game. Most people end up finding a middle ground between the two.

Like AZ Greg said, some people who play are too quick to blame tier listings for the shortcomings of their choice, when in all actuality, it doesn't make them much different from a tier whore who picks the best character. (They are basically a tier whore who doesn't have their priorities straight)
 
A

Aedile

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Sirlin makes the point that if the same tools are available to everyone, you're only handcapping yourself if you don't pick the best tool in the box. Where do you stand on this issue? Find the character that meshes with your personality? Or is it a case of "If you wanna win u - pick a f`cking top tier?"
Click to expand...

It depends on what your goals are. If you want to become a tournament player, that's probably the correct approach to take. For someone who is just playing for fun, particularly in an online environment that's a very different beast than its offline counterpart, does it really matter if you win? I win maybe 10% more games playing Rog or Gief than I do Claw, but I find those characters--and most of the rest of the cast--boring over long stretches of play. I accept Claw's somewhat lesser viability as a sacrifice I have to make in order to play a character I get more enjoyment from. Would I feel that way if I was playing for money? Probably not.

Re: replays, I see them only as a more readily comprehensible form of memorizing frame data and hitboxes. Learning fighting games always seemed to me to be an act of building a what-beats-what-from-where flowchart in your head, and then developing the ability to recall relevant parts of it at a moment's notice. Seeing that play out on the screen is probably more memorable than seeing it on the page, and maybe it helps a little bit with retention; but I think most of that learning takes place unconsciously while playing lots and lots of games, at least once you reach a certain level of competence in execution.
 
A

arstal

Whine Whine FADC Troll
AZ Greg said:
Keep in mind that Sirlin's point is in the context of the highest level of play. Naturally, when the players with the most experience, most time spent practicing, highest level of competition to practice against, and best execution pick the best characters then it's going to be hard to beat them when you're not stacking up in the one area you have no control over, character balance. That said, SF4 is pretty balanced and virtually any character can win. Maybe not consistently in a double elimination, multiple set tournament against some of the best players in the world, but you can still get some wins and be a threat. And if that allows me to use the character I like as opposed to picking based on tier then that's all I need out of character balance. I'm sure my feelings would be a little different if I were trying to consistently win tournaments and make money, but for now it's just about the fun.

Also, I've mained Claw since launch and my win % with him is probably around 80%. And, while only online, I've faced a lot of good players. I think too many people look to blame tier positioning, both to justify their own losses and their opponents wins, when they should be looking at themselves.
Click to expand...

To tournament players, winning= fun. So they are going to pick what helps them win.

To other players (who can be better then tourney players, but don't play to win) - it's about what is fun.

I don't really play to win anymore- I just don't have the time or desire to put up with the community anymore. I may go to tournies, but it's to play for fun.

That said, tiers matter. Tiers change based on skill level though. Some characters end up scrub killers, some don't come into their own until high level play. Honda for example is a killer to scrubs, but weakens heavily at higher levels. This is why Mike Ross quit Honda.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
AZ Greg said:
Keep in mind that Sirlin's point is in the context of the highest level of play. Naturally, when the players with the most experience, most time spent practicing, highest level of competition to practice against, and best execution pick the best characters then it's going to be hard to beat them when you're not stacking up in the one area you have no control over, character balance. That said, SF4 is pretty balanced and virtually any character can win. Maybe not consistently in a double elimination, multiple set tournament against some of the best players in the world, but you can still get some wins and be a threat. And if that allows me to use the character I like as opposed to picking based on tier then that's all I need out of character balance. I'm sure my feelings would be a little different if I were trying to consistently win tournaments and make money, but for now it's just about the fun.

Also, I've mained Claw since launch and my win % with him is probably around 80%. And, while only online, I've faced a lot of good players. I think too many people look to blame tier positioning, both to justify their own losses and their opponents wins, when they should be looking at themselves.
Click to expand...

I like this post :)
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
So tireddd....

AZ pretty much said what I would about using characters. There is a select few whom I would use in every iteration whether they suck or not on tier listings.
 
B

black_vegeta

Member
Attention Fellow San Diego Gaffers!!!

I just found out there is a Street Fighter 4 cabinet located at the Tilt in the Mission Valley mall!!! I was loving playing an actual arcade cabinet within the arcade environment surrounding me. Problems were that the cabinet was used from some previous game. The joystick and buttons sucked elephant balls. Apparently it's running off a XBox 360. It's setup to where you have to insert a quarter every 2 minutes or else it resets the damn system and you have to re-configure your button config.

With those minor faults, I still had a good time playing some local comp offline for once. I didn't lose a set with my Rawg. :D

Edit: Well with Supa coming out soon, I'm doubt if anyone will give a damn. :lol
 
Y

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Why are people with SRK in their name always morons? I don't think I've come across one on the PC version who didn't cry and make excuses after beating them.

I just had one tell me I "spam cannon spike because it can't be punished" :lol

He was playing Sagat too...
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Ysiadmihi said:
Why are people with SRK in their name always morons? I don't think I've come across one on the PC version who didn't cry and make excuses after beating them.

I just had one tell me I "spam cannon spike because it can't be punished" :lol

He was playing Sagat too...
Click to expand...

Because most of them are? Reason why I won't ever join SRK.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
My character record(off the top of my head):

BP: 888 (had 1337 once, but accidentally chose ranked battle instead of player match, pissed me off so bad, but 888 is cool too)
CP: 777 (after I did this I was so proud I stopped playing and went back to 3s)

Playtime: 60-70 hours?

Top Characters:

Fei Long: 70%
Cammy: 20%
Akuma: 5%

Win percentage: 60%

I never even unlocked Seth...
 
Y

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Sending messages full of excuses and whining is a quirk?

I'm not saying all SRK members are like this. Just ones on PC with "SRK" somewhere in their name. I have literally not fought one who didn't bitch after I beat them, even if they beat me just beforehand.

One Sagat player beat me like 3 times in a row in ranked once and when I beat him in the 4th game he bitched about lag. Where was the lag before and why join my lobby 4 times if it's so bad :lol
 
hitsugi

hitsugi

Member
Majestros said:
Sorry, but that's bullshit. You people are just used to NeoGAF's quirks and not SRK's.
Click to expand...

real talk. having been on SRK since it had around 20 users (pre-MVC2 days) I can say that the evolution of it wasn't too pretty, but if you stick to the right areas there is still a community of some of the best players in the world.
 
A

Aedile

Member
Ysiadmihi said:
Sending messages full of excuses and whining is a quirk?

I'm not saying all SRK members are like this. Just ones on PC with "SRK" somewhere in their name. I have literally not fought one who didn't bitch after I beat them, even if they beat me just beforehand.

One Sagat player beat me like 3 times in a row in ranked once and when I beat him in the 4th game he bitched about lag. Where was the lag before and why join my lobby 4 times if it's so bad :lol
Click to expand...

Don't let whinemail get to you. Think of it as a good opportunity to rub salt into the wounds of a deserving party.

At least for me, the volume of complaints I receive on GFWL is a lot more manageable than what my mailbox had to deal with on PSN. One of the many reasons I'm not looking forward to going back to the PS3 for Super (lag is the other big one), and quietly cursing Capcom for their undoubtedly purposeful delay of the PC version.

Re: SRK tagged people, I'm surprised you even see many of them. I don't think I've come across more than one, and that was a long time ago.

(Ah, this thread will be coming to the end of its life soon, won't it? Memories!)
 
Y

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Oh don't get me wrong. It doesn't get to me :lol

I just found it interesting that, without fail, anytime I beat someone with SRK in their name they have to whine and make excuses.
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
Ysiadmihi said:
Why are people with SRK in their name always morons? I don't think I've come across one on the PC version who didn't cry and make excuses after beating them.

I just had one tell me I "spam cannon spike because it can't be punished" :lol

He was playing Sagat too...
Click to expand...

Lol that always happens... just ignore them. Last time some guy kept saying he always looses to guile's online and he always wins offline... and its all because of lag. Sure it is ... ;)
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
Had my first live session ever with a guy on my friends list. He only lived 30 minutes away and I decided to pay him and a few of his buddies(also players) a visit. Man it was a much different experience then online. The first thing I noticed is that 2 of us were stick players while the other 2 were pad and every one of us had a different button set up so we spent almost as much time switching controllers/buttons as we did playing the damn game :lol
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
Majestros said:
Sorry, but that's bullshit. You people are just used to NeoGAF's quirks and not SRK's.
Click to expand...

Word. I love SRK.

It's true though.

Most ppl with SRK in their name suck.

I wooped someone so bad in HD Remix the other night :lol

"ARE YOU MARKMAN FROM SRK!?"

Nah son... MarkMan from NEOGAF.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
MarkMan said:
Word. I love SRK.

It's true though.

Most ppl with SRK in their name suck.

I wooped someone so bad in HD Remix the other night :lol

"ARE YOU MARKMAN FROM SRK!?"

Nah son... MarkMan from NEOGAF.
Click to expand...
Reskpek: +17
So G.
 
T

Threi

notag
MarkMan said:
Word. I love SRK.

It's true though.

Most ppl with SRK in their name suck.

I wooped someone so bad in HD Remix the other night :lol

"ARE YOU MARKMAN FROM SRK!?"

Nah son... MarkMan from NEOGAF.
Click to expand...
*fistbump*
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
MarkMan said:
Word. I love SRK.

It's true though.

Most ppl with SRK in their name suck.

I wooped someone so bad in HD Remix the other night :lol

"ARE YOU MARKMAN FROM SRK!?"

Nah son... MarkMan from NEOGAF.
Click to expand...


that's whats up :D
 
K

Kuugrr

Member
black_vegeta said:
Attention Fellow San Diego Gaffers!!!

I just found out there is a Street Fighter 4 cabinet located at the Tilt in the Mission Valley mall!!! I was loving playing an actual arcade cabinet within the arcade environment surrounding me. Problems were that the cabinet was used from some previous game. The joystick and buttons sucked elephant balls. Apparently it's running off a XBox 360. It's setup to where you have to insert a quarter every 2 minutes or else it resets the damn system and you have to re-configure your button config.

With those minor faults, I still had a good time playing some local comp offline for once. I didn't lose a set with my Rawg. :D

Edit: Well with Supa coming out soon, I'm doubt if anyone will give a damn. :lol
Click to expand...
I actually ran into a machine exactly like this at the Tilt Arcade (same chain?) in Lafayette, LA today. It sounds like it was in way better condition than the one you were on, but it's kinda surreal that I had the same experience across the country. :lol
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
I've ran into a few salty srk members, but those are usually the exception, and most of them are actually pretty chill and nice in my experience lately and provided some really awesome challenging matches. But at the srk forum when people debate, I'm kinda timid in those discussions since they make me feel like an 09 noob, lol.
 
K

killdatninja

Banned
MarkMan said:
Word. I love SRK.

It's true though.

Most ppl with SRK in their name suck.

I wooped someone so bad in HD Remix the other night :lol

"ARE YOU MARKMAN FROM SRK!?"

Nah son... MarkMan from NEOGAF.
Click to expand...

Is it wrong that this made me more hype than I am for SSFIV!?
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
SRK 's biggest negative is the over-use of bad sarcasm to belittle scrubs or n00bs

it gets really old fast when there are 10 posts in arrow of copy-cat posters who use the same unfunny sarcasm one after the other

"give Sagat a gun!" then having 10 posts saying the same shit afterwords zzzzzzzzzzzzz

it got bad in the speculative character suggestion threads about improving characters in Super SF4

but!

there are good threads that are helpful, that is true
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
srk's biggest problems are registration dates and group blowjobs.

also people actually typing out the words 'real talk' and other verbal ticks that are excusable in person but absurd in text.
 
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