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[akachan ningen]

akachan ningen you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Startup is the time it takes until a move becomes active, which is the "red hitbox" that Mox is talking about. Rufus' F+HP has 19 startup frames so anything with less startup frames will beat it, provided it's in range so that the hitboxes collide. Stop talking nonsense please.

that's not priority, that's simply one move coming out before another move. Priority is what happens when two attacks meet at the same place and time.

 

[MoxManiac]

Are you sure it's not just ST and the games before it? Because it seems to work differently in other games, especially in cvs2.

I honestly can't say 100% since none of us can actually -see- what's going on behind the scenes in CvS2.

However, what I can tell you is that every single NeoGeo fighter does the same thing as ST, since you can go into a debug mode for neogeo games, and that lets you see the hitboxes for every mode and animation in the game. I believe darkstalkers 2 on saturn had a similar debug mode.

 

[Tideas]

i hate to sound elitist, but lol pads

do you have a PS3? i will challenge you with the ps3 dpad when i get the game

 

[CPS2]

that's not priority, that's simply one move coming out before another move. Priority is what happens when two attacks meet at the same place and time.

That IS priority. Look at the link I posted for Rufus' frame data and have a look at how long a move is actually active for. It's usually only 2 frames. The reason one move beats another is because it reaches the active frame before the other move and intersects with their hitbox. That's it. You sound like you're under the impression that a good chunk of each move is actually "hitting" when in reality the vast majority of each move is made of startup and recovery.

 

[MoxManiac]

Oh yeah, I think you can see hitboxes in 3s through emulation? I'm not 100% sure.

I just thought of a really good example of SF4 using the same system as ST. in SF4, Blanka's electricity is still beat by sweeps, but only at max range. any closer and the character doing the sweep will have his blue hitboxes intersect blanka's red hitbox on his electricity.

 

[akachan ningen]

That IS priority. Look at the link I posted for Rufus' frame data and have a look at how long a move is actually active for. It's usually only 2 frames. The reason one move beats another is because it reaches the active frame before the other move and intersects with their hitbox. That's it. You sound like you're under the impression that a good chunk of each move is actually "hitting" when in reality the vast majority of each move is made of startup and recovery.

You still don't get it. I'm talking about situations where two attacks are in their active frames at the same place and time. Some attacks trade hits some beat other attacks.

Oh yeah, I think you can see hitboxes in 3s through emulation? I'm not 100% sure.

I just thought of a really good example of SF4 using the same system as ST. in SF4, Blanka's electricity is still beat by sweeps, but only at max range. any closer and the character doing the sweep will have his blue hitboxes intersect blanka's red hitbox on his electricity.

yeah, that's true. but it's also possible that moves have values in addition to the blue and red hitboxes.

 

[CPS2]

You still don't get it. I'm talking about situations where two attacks are in their active frames at the same place and time. Some attacks trade hits some beat other attacks.

The only reason that would happen is if the 2 "red hitboxes" are not connecting. Hate to break this to you, but that comes down to that word you hate: range. If the 2 red hitboxes collide, it's a trade. You can't see the hitboxes, so this may be why you're getting confused.

If you're going to correct me, can you say something a bit more meaningful than "noooo you don't get it, it's a mystical thing I don't understand, etc"

 

[jrricky]

why is match making so horrible?

 

[sixteen-bit]

why is match making so horrible?

SF4 wasn't made by Infinity Ward, you didn't get the memo?

 

[Jirotrom]

I love this game but haven't played in over a week because I have slow arse internet. Come tomorrow though... it will be blazing fast

 

[Duke Togo]

I have a 59.95% win percentage...with over 250 matches. How does that stack up with you guys? How hard of a scrub am I?

 

[jrricky]

SF4 wasn't made by Infinity Ward, you didn't get the memo?

I just cant get a challenger that has atleast one bar. :-/

 

[sixteen-bit]

I just cant get a challenger that has atleast one bar. :-/

Even with the search filters?

 

[MoxManiac]

You still don't get it. I'm talking about situations where two attacks are in their active frames at the same place and time. Some attacks trade hits some beat other attacks.

Again, it's because player one hit player two's blue hittable box while player two's attack couldn't hit player one's blue box.

I know you're saying that sf4 (or cvs2) could have something else going on, but is there any reason to think that's the case when the simple interaction between blue and red hitboxes is enough?

 

[Rummy Bunnz]

I can't pronounce the character names correctly. He's been Ry-ooo for 20 years and that's not gonna change!

LOL

I was watching some of Darksydephil's videos.. and our very own GAFer (Rummy Bunnz) comes in and rapes him with Cammy.

Nice job!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3AJ8MBVdfY&feature=channel_page

Haha that was awesome with the hooligan combos

Man, that's kinda embarrassing! But at least I won. I remember seeing his name and trying to remember where I knew it from. I think I was angry he didn't pick Rufus. And stunned when a lot of my spazzy flowchart Cammy shit hit. It tends to be effective against Sagat, though.

And thanks for the nice words! I am kinda shamed of all my ranked wins. I play too much!

 

[mYm|17|]

I can't pronounce the character names correctly. He's been Ry-ooo for 20 years and that's not gonna change!


Man, that's kinda embarrassing! But at least I won. I remember seeing his name and trying to remember where I knew it from. I think I was angry he didn't pick Rufus. And stunned when a lot of my spazzy flowchart Cammy shit hit. It tends to be effective against Sagat, though.

And thanks for the nice words! I am kinda shamed of all my ranked wins. I play too much!

gj rummy, it was good to hear that guy whine

 

[akachan ningen]

Again, it's because player one hit player two's blue hittable box while player two's attack couldn't hit player one's blue box.

I know you're saying that sf4 (or cvs2) could have something else going on, but is there any reason to think that's the case when the simple interaction between blue and red hitboxes is enough?

I know that, what I am trying to explain to him is that what he is saying is not about priority: "akachan ningen you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Startup is the time it takes until a move becomes active, which is the "red hitbox" that Mox is talking about. Rufus' F+HP has 19 startup frames so anything with less startup frames will beat it, provided it's in range so that the hitboxes collide. Stop talking nonsense please."

He's just talking about one move coming out before another.

I know you're saying that sf4 (or cvs2) could have something else going on, but is there any reason to think that's the case when the simple interaction between blue and red hitboxes is enough?

Because if moves have values, that cuts down on hits trading doesn't it? If they both manage to hits each other's blue box, they trade unless one has a more "powerful" blue box(which is only attached to the attacking limb, not the whole character). It seems that way because few attacks trade in that game. It would be easier to balance a game that way than by monkeying with the hitbox shapes.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I have a 59.95% win percentage...with over 250 matches. How does that stack up with you guys? How hard of a scrub am I?

I got 41% with all player matches and around 120.

but I neverplayed street fighter before and lost I think the first 40 in a row, so I'm improving.

have a lot more success NOT using Ryu actually, but I like him, however, most of the players are a bit wise to his stuff, as they either had to play 100 of ken/ryu already or play him himself. I usually beat these players with Guile, they simply CANT help jumping at him.

EDIT: Actually does anyone else have trouble not jumping in in general? Even if I'm getting beat down, I can't really help it, if I walk forward, I feel weirdly vulnerable. I also lose ALOT of mid air kick/punch attempts if the other player does the same.

 

[NYR]

EDIT: Actually does anyone else have trouble not jumping in in general? Even if I'm getting beat down, I can't really help it, if I walk forward, I feel weirdly vulnerable. I also lose ALOT of mid air kick/punch attempts if the other player does the same.

Heh, yep. Most of us rookies do it a lot. All about saving time and getting punished for it.

 

[RevenantKioku]

http://i39.tinypic.com/rt3tz6.gif[IMG]

I have a 59.95% win percentage...with over 250 matches. How does that stack up with you guys? How hard of a scrub am I?[/QUOTE]
Boohoo.

22.4% :(
294 fights.

I'm starting to pull off moves with more consistency, at least. Been working on Rose mostly but throwing in some Sakura fights here and there to mix it up.

 

[Ferrio]

I
Because if moves have values, that cuts down on hits trading doesn't it? If they both manage to hits each other's blue box, they trade unless one has a more "powerful" blue box(which is only attached to the attacking limb, not the whole character). It seems that way because few attacks trade in that game. It would be easier to balance a game that way than by monkeying with the hitbox shapes.

No such thing as priority values man, sorry. If there was they'd be documented in the many many in depth move analysis books of the game.

I even got a pretty big CvS2 book on my shelf that documents all the normals in the game.

 

[haunts]

C. Viper is tiiiight.

I hate bison.. he kills me so much

 

[CPS2]

The reason you don't see trades all that often is because the "hit" portion of a move is so small, like usually around 2/60 of a second, though it can be much larger.

Haunts tell me I'm right plz. I need to be validated :lol

 

[akachan ningen]

No such thing as priority values man, sorry. If there was they'd be documented in the many many in depth move analysis books of the game.

I even got a pretty big CvS2 book on my shelf that documents all the normals in the game.

Yeah, I see I was thinking about the wrong way. The part you quoted what was just saying "what if" though, in my defense. :lol But there are such things as priority values, like in guilty gear and (I have heard)Alpha 3. In GG, two equal priority moves cancel each other out and there's a little lightning strike that cancels them both. KOFXII seems to have a similar system.

Anyway, UC1 is still wrong, saying that moves that come out faster and/or have more range have more priority.

 

[haunts]

dude i have no idea i just like to bust tight combos.

 

[Ferrio]

Anyway, UC1 is still wrong, saying that moves that come out faster and/or have more range have more priority.

Er he's sorta right in a way. Moves that come out faster don't have more priority, but long range moves usually have better priority than shorter since their actual attack hit box are usually farther away from their own hit box.

 

[CPS2]

Anyway, UC1 is still wrong, saying that moves that come out faster and/or have more range have more priority.

Whoa I never said that moves with more range have more priority.

Read this plz

Er he's sorta right in a way. Moves that come out faster don't have more priority, but long range moves usually have better priority than shorter since their actual attack hit box are usually farther away from their own hit box.

I don't think you're getting what I said...

Faster moves do have more priority, provided they don't whiff. The only thing range/hitboxes has to do with it, is that they have to hit something for a move to work. A long range move can beat a short range move, and vice versa. It depends on which reaches their active frame first and collides.

 

[akachan ningen]

Whoa I never said that moves with more range have more priority.

Read this plz

You did say this:

Rufus' F+HP has 19 startup frames so anything with less startup frames will beat it,

and I said, that's not priority, that's just one move coming out before the other and you were like 'no.'

see, I messed up when I said the moves might have "priority value" but you were never talking about priority at all, until your last two posts.

You're right though, it was _dementia who implied that vega would have more priority by having a longer attack. I got confused about that.

but then you said:

Range/hitbox definitely has something to do with priority. .

which is wrong. hitbox yes, range no.

If the 2 red hitboxes collide, it's a trade

that's wrong too, when they collide, nothing happens. a hit only happens when a red hitbox hits a blue one.

I don't think you're getting what I said...

Faster moves do have more priority, provided they don't whiff. The only thing range/hitboxes has to do with it, is that they have to hit something for a move to work. A long range move can beat a short range move, and vice versa. It depends on which reaches their active frame first and collides.

right there, again, you're talking about beating someone to the punch, which relates to frame advantage, not priority.

 

[CPS2]

hitbox yes, range no.

I was using the terms interchangably, hence the "/"

 

[Ferrio]

I don't think you're getting what I said...

Faster moves do have more priority, provided they don't whiff. The only thing range/hitboxes has to do with it, is that they have to hit something for a move to work. A long range move can beat a short range move, and vice versa. It depends on which reaches their active frame first and collides.

I'd have to disagree. Your argument makes sense if say you define priority by having two characters do a move at the exact same time, and see which one wins out. That's rarely the case in a fighting game so I don't see why you'd want to measure priority that way. A move with faster startup can snuff a move before its hit frames come out, but that doesn't help you in game. If someone is jumping in with an attack, I wanna know what can beat it out while it's hit frame is active... not predict which jump in they'll use and snuff it before it comes out.

But anyways, we can argue semantics all day long so I"m going to give it a rest.

 

[akachan ningen]

I was using the terms interchangably, hence the "/"

But they're not interchangeable.

I'd have to disagree. Your argument makes sense if say you define priority by having two characters do a move at the exact same time, and see which one wins out. That's rarely the case in a fighting game so I don't see why you'd want to measure priority that way. A move with faster startup can snuff a move before its hit frames come out, but that doesn't help you in game. If someone is jumping in with an attack, I wanna know what can beat it out while it's hit frame is active... not predict which jump in they'll use and snuff it before it comes out.

see what I mean? he's talking about speed, not priority.

 

[MoxManiac]

Range and hitboxes are the same thing. A move's range is -defined- by their hitbox.

 

[CPS2]

Can't believe it's gone on this long, last post I swear.

Move A hits on the 5th frame, move B hits on the 10th frame.

Move A wins if both moves are done point blank at the exact same time.

Move B wins if executed 6 or more frames before move A.

 

[akachan ningen]

Range and hitboxes are the same thing. A move's range is -defined- by their hitbox.

but not as it relates to priority. because a long range move can have a small blue box or a big blue box, but the range will be the same if the red box is the same, right? but one will be higher priority if it has a smaller blue box right?

Can't believe it's gone on this long, last post I swear.

Move A hits on the 5th frame, move B hits on the 10th frame.

Move A wins if both moves are done point blank at the exact same time.

Move B wins if executed 6 or more frames before move A.

good, very good. that's speed, not priority. Saying a move is fast, like balrog's jab is not the same as saying it is high-priority.

 

[keanerie]

what's the hitbox on glowing attack

 

[haunts]

what's the hitbox on glowing attack

YES! :lol

and why is Seth a surf board sometimes?

 

[jrricky]

Even with the search filters?

wats dat? tell me more.

other question: Is it possible to beat Seth on very hard mode?

 

[CPS2]

I know I said that last post was my last on this topic, this one really is I swear.

right there, again, you're talking about beating someone to the punch, which relates to frame advantage, not priority.

That's not what frame advantage means. Frame advantage is to do with what happens after your attack hits or is blocked, and whether there's a combo opportunity available, or if it can be punished. Read the whole thing I linked you to, it explains all that.

 

[toneroni]

Yeah I don't care...it is always going to be:
Rye-u
ZANG-GIEF
Blank-a
Guile (although a buddy back in SF2 days used to say Gui - le which I alwas thought funny)
A-bel

The new guys I am more lenient on, but since I have been going rye-u for 20 years I think I will stay with it (and yeah I knew it was ree-u about 10-15 years ago).

YEP i agree. I never will say REEE-yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Oh yeah, custom search was working sweeeet yest. Its nice to win 40-50bp and only lose around the same amount. Games were much more exciting. Hit 2900 and slowly moving up. Still main mostly ken + sagat tho.. I player match with everyone else but its just hard to make myself pick others on ranked =x
Only thing that sucks is that now i'll never beat my 45 win streak :lol

 

[Shadow780]

Is it possible to beat Seth on very hard mode?

 

[Dizzy-4U]

I'm surfing the xbox marketplace from the website, but I can't find the Shadowloo pack. When is the release date again?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

wats dat? tell me more.

other question: Is it possible to beat Seth on very hard mode?

I only play the CPU on 'Hardest' and I seldom have to continue. Seth is overrated.

 

[west]

I have a 59.95% win percentage...with over 250 matches. How does that stack up with you guys? How hard of a scrub am I?

Broke 3k.... yay!

 

[razu]

Is it possible to beat Seth on very hard mode?

Yes, see my last post. And as others have already said, I swear it's easier on Hardest than Medium too.

 

[fatty]

So I was going through the challenges with Chun-li last night were you are starting to chain different combos...that can get pretty tough. I had to refer to a youtube video to see what the combo looked liked (and I also don't have all the move names memorized). Right now I'm stuck at where you jump in to start a target combo, crouch medium punch, throw a fireball and end with a Super combo. It's the linking from the fireball to the Super that is giving me fits. When I watch the video though I don't see the fireball being thrown so I'm not sure how it links in with the rest of the combo, it's almost like she starts the motion but then goes directly into the Supercombo.

-----

I'm also online playing Chun-li and Blanka most of the time to learn them a little better and I get a challenge from a Ken player so I say 'what the hey' and play Ken as well. I never initiate a taunt but this guy was winning the first round and starts throwing out the 'ho-hum' taunt. That's it, I come back strong the second round and almost finish him off on the third round with an Ultra Combo. He had just enough energy left so I could taunt him while he was still falling from the sky from the combo. I then finish him off with a HK. Felt so good.

 

[toneroni]

I'm also online playing Chun-li and Blanka most of the time to learn them a little better and I get a challenge from a Ken player so I say 'what the hey' and play Ken as well. I never initiate a taunt but this guy was winning the first round and starts throwing out the 'ho-hum' taunt. That's it, I come back strong the second round and almost finish him off on the third round with an Ultra Combo. He had just enough energy left so I could taunt him while he was still falling from the sky from the combo. I then finish him off with a HK. Felt so good.

I love when they taunt in the first round while i'm warming up or something. Wonder how they felt when i finished em up in the other rounds :lol

 

[n3ss]

C. Viper is tiiiight.

I hate bison.. he kills me so much

Him and Balrog are my worst match ups so far...

 

[CPS2]

Right now I'm stuck at where you jump in to start a target combo, crouch medium punch, throw a fireball and end with a Super combo. It's the linking from the fireball to the Super that is giving me fits.

You just press back, forward + punch (fireball), back, forward + kick (super). The fireball motion becomes the first part of the super motion. Just enter it quickly.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

So I was going through the challenges with Chun-li last night were you are starting to chain different combos...that can get pretty tough. I had to refer to a youtube video to see what the combo looked liked (and I also don't have all the move names memorized). Right now I'm stuck at where you jump in to start a target combo, crouch medium punch, throw a fireball and end with a Super combo. It's the linking from the fireball to the Super that is giving me fits. When I watch the video though I don't see the fireball being thrown so I'm not sure how it links in with the rest of the combo, it's almost like she starts the motion but then goes directly into the Supercombo.

When you are doing the motion for the fireball it also counts as the motion for the super. After you press <- -> + P and the fireball comes out, just do <- -> + K and you'll get the super right after the fireball.

EDIT: Beaten to death.

 

[fatty]

You just press back, forward + punch (fireball), back, forward + kick (super). The fireball motion becomes the first part of the super motion. Just enter it quickly.

Edit: Nevermind this first paragraph, it was clarified above. Thanks to both of you guys.
[ignore]Do you have to charge back on either of those? And after the fireball I was always trying to charge back and then forward, back, forward + kick (super) but if you only have to go back once that makes it much easier. Thanks for the help, I'm going to tackle that tonight.[/ignore]

I also notice on the one combo where you back-kick (charge down, up + medium kick) them up in the air and they have to land on your 'spinning bird kick' to complete the combo, that you pretty much have to be in the corner or else they'll 'get away' from you due to the momentum of the back-kick. Am I right in thinking this?