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[TurtleSnatcher]

What i don't like is when i criticize game design and then people link the playing to win article on reaction like it settles any argument and is the answer to any problem anyone might have with a fighting game. People need to learn to read and think critically instead of deifying sirlin or seth killian or whomever.

The problem is.. some people are posting "Fireballs are cheap" yet its a completely normal typical zoning tactic and smart for those characters. They are setting those people up and playing smart and playing to win. Everything has counters in this game and can be avoided but people just refuse to learn them and whine about it instead.

 

[CPS2]

The problem is.. some people are posting "Fireballs are cheap" yet its a completely normal typical zoning tactic and smart for those characters. They are setting those people up and playing smart and playing to win. Everything has counters in this game and can be avoided but people just refuse to learn them and whine about it instead.

Replace fireballs with throws, and you have Timedog's thoughts on ST =P

I have noticed a weird phenomenon where people think it's scrubby to complain about legitimate things, like SF4's netcode. Yes it's annoying but it's a real problem.

I'd never link to Sirlin on reaction though. It's more of an anticipatory thing when I predict that scrubs may be about.

 

[Timedog]

Replace fireballs with throws, and you have Timedog's thoughts on ST =P

I have noticed a weird phenomenon where people think it's scrubby to complain about legitimate things, like SF4's netcode. Yes it's annoying but it's a real problem.

I'd never link to Sirlin on reaction though. It's more of an anticipatory thing when I predict that scrubs may be about.

the proficiency divide between tick throwing and being able to reversal is too large. This was resolved in IV with lesser throw ranges, two button throws, lesser throw damage, and easy reversals. Most people aren't complaining, but believe it or not, I think reversals are a bit too easy, and the throw ranges need to be widened a bit and throw damage a bit less nerfed. Somewhere inbetween ST and IV would be perfect, I think.

I don't like the throwing mechanics in ST. It has nothing to do with playing to win or me telling other people that they shouldn't throw when they play. If it's there, use it, but because it's there doesn't mean that I have to like it. Tomo Ohira aka the best street fighter player ever called Mike Watson "cheap". Is he a scrub?

 

[CPS2]

the proficiency divide between tick throwing and being able to reversal is too large. This was resolved in IV with lesser throw ranges, two button throws, lesser throw damage, and easy reversals. Most people aren't complaining, but believe it or not, I think reversals are a bit too easy, and the throw ranges need to be widened a bit and throw damage a bit less nerfed. Somewhere inbetween ST and IV would be perfect, I think.

I don't like the throwing mechanics in ST. It has nothing to do with playing to win or me telling other people that they shouldn't throw when they play. If it's there, use it, but because it's there doesn't mean that I have to like it.

That's fair enough, I don't really like the throw ranges or speed of them in ST either, but if it's there I'm gonna use it and expect others to do the same. A lot of the time is spent trying to avoid reversal guessing games, that's just what SF is, some characters try to get in close and others try to keep them out.

 

[Brobzoid]

Is tick-throwing when you do a jab (that's blocked) and then immediately follow up with a throw input? Does this give you a bigger throw range or is it harder to escape or something?

 

[Cromulent_Word]

Is tick-throwing when you do a jab (that's blocked) and then immediately follow up with a throw input? Does this give you a bigger throw range or is it harder to escape or something?

the most common def. of tick throwing is just interrupting pressure to throw. the opponent thinks you will continue to pressure with your string, but you stop it and throw. so with cammy, say, a typical string could be Strike > c.lk > c.lp > c.lk. you could stop it after the first c.lk to throw, and that would be a tick throw.

theres a couple other situations it refers to as well i believe (like using a move that you know will be blocked, then using the opponents blockstun time to get a throw in)

 

[AndresON777]

What's a good strategy against vega? I was using Akuma and luckily I won the match by landing his ultra a couple of times but the dude was giving me a really hard time. Vega's ex attacks are brutal.

The thing that sucks about akuma (aside from his low health) is that his regular fireball takes forever to come out.

Edit- thanks Brobzoid, I'm so used to staying back that Vega kills me with those ex attacks off the wall. I guess I'll have to move in, that's what I did to beat him, moved in...got lucky with a fireball that knocked him down...when he got up I got him with an ex dragon punch...and then got a lucky ultra finish as he was getting up

Akuma's ultra takes like half of the other players life away, it's brutal

 

[Brobzoid]

you must neutralize his air game. the best way is to never let him hit the wall, but that's kinda hard. shoruykens, ch.hp, teleport are all good ways of not getting caught in a wall-dive. A good Vega will always be able to beat you in the air with a grab, so don't jump too much. Ultimately you should get Vega into the corner and just pressure like a motherfucker. If he has Ex you should watch out for wall-dives as it can hit you on the way up, but if you have him in the corner he jumps to the top of it instead of crossing the screen (I think) so he should try to get some distance with his flip kick (d/b-f+k) which combos into another one if he has ex.

pressure pressure pressure. If he loses his claw or mask, that's a detriment to him so you can trap him a little since you know he wants to go grab it.

edit:

Against Vega you have a few solid options with Akuma.

First off against Wall Dives you can focus attack any normal air attack he does then immediately dash usually nailing him with a throw and then setting up wake-up stuff or resetting the game position while you gain some meter. If your really worried about a throw or you just can't get the timing right, then short teleport. Vega can do absolutely nothing about this and you can sometimes tag him with f-HK or a quick fireball. If you end up ahead on life this is also an easy way to make him chase after you which will usually lead to an opening to an air tatsu or simple blocking and punishing. Otherwise you can usually sit back and throw fireballs and wait for him to do wall dives or try to get in with HP. If he jumps at you, he really has nothing he can come out with to beat a DP or even a well timed HK.

If you want to be more aggressive, you can move in and usually force the issue with f-HK a lot, since it can make up a lot of space while being mostly safe at the right range. Also if you do jump-ins, if you have the meter just throw out EX Fireball if he gets too jumpy with flip kicks. If you are being aggressive, the key is just to keep close and range him with cr. punches / F-HK to him where Vega's options and low damage input/output can be fully abused. If you get in really close, Vega is pretty dead. Once you gain an edge though, you can pretty much run away for the rest of the game via teleport and if he chases after you doing wall jumps most of the time Vega will run into an air FB you left for him.

Last note, if you have have your Ultra Demon ready, try to bait a cr. HP or slide from Vega; it also can be an option if he backflips too much since the Demon will either make it to the end of his second flip or put you right there next to him to do whatever you like as he comes out of it.

 

[milkham]

This bothers me to. Some characters like Rose and Dan sync together at the start of their ultras (so Dans fist can actually connect with a dudes cheek, Roses robe can wrap around an arm, etc), so they have priority if it ever connects with anyone. Sucks them right in, making it easy to land the super.

Other dudes like Rufus and Sagat dont have ultras like this, but they seem to always juggle dudes perfectly. I have never seen the first hit of either one of those guys's ultras hit, but then fail to juggle.

Chun Li on the other hand has to make sure the dude juggles properly in the Ultra, or they'll fall out of it easily even if it lands. And if the dude isnt in the corner, the ultra will never juggle if they are in the air. I wonder if this different ultra design was done purposefully or was just happenstance.

who is this?

 

[AndresON777]

who is this?

Been wanting to know for myself as well

 

[milkham]

Been wanting to know for myself as well

her name is annetta keys i think

 

[HiResDes]

her name is annetta keys i think

Yes, but with one less 'n'

 

[gutter_trash]

tick throws in ST were retarded because mash throw characters could inflicted insane amount of damage with a mash throw with LITTLE EFFORT

the term cheap or cheese in my book is used for easily abusable tactics for massive damage.

The guys who picked Blanka in HDR did not pick him for doing his 3-hit combos or whatever, they picked him for the jumpin.LK tick into mash throw. in my book, the players who used this tactic over and over again to when were cheap players (and boring too)

I was guilty of cheese in ST and I used cheese when I was losing and needed to turn the tables. I tick thrown into Oicho, I tick thrown into Balrog mash throw.. I done it,

Against my friends, i held back on some of that cheese because I know how anger inducing they coul be. But against random ranked retards who selected Akuma, no mercy for Akuma selecters. Cheese him out.

Cheap and Cheese does exist, it is part of the game. Even the play to win guys acknowledge it, they just don't want to call things cheap because they don't want to go back to the days when people invented their own rules at arcades in the early 90s

 

[Spiderjericho]

The bite...I felt it from N3ss...

I even began to use it...

I agree...I'm glad they reduced the damage on holds. Blanka, Ken, Dhalsim, , Zangief Honda and Boxer benefit greatly from them. Well...Blanka, Dhalsim and Ken.

I just watched the Ties That Bind video. Except for the first Animated SFII movie, there hasn't been a good SF Anime. Not going to spoil it for anyone, but it was mostly talking heads and little fighting. And we revisit the Saitso No Hado storyline again. As an adaption of the SFIV storyline, it serves more as a setup for the story...but it doesn't explain a lot of the storyline holes = Bison's return, Why Sakura is still wearing that ridiculous outfit, etc. The animation is better than the ones included at the beginning and end of the single player.

While watching it, I wondered why they took out the special intros some of the characters shared like in Alpha and TS. Examples, Sagat touching his scar when fighting Ryu, Ken and Ryu fist bumping, etc.

I like the game...but it seems to be missing that special touch. Well back to trial...stuck on Abel and Cammy's fifth trials...my hands are aching...

 

[Doc Evils]

why is there no car beat'em up mini game?

 

[gutter_trash]

i boycott that anime, too much dark side dark hado garbage and too much Sakura... do not want

 

[MoxManiac]

The bite...I felt it from N3ss...

I even began to use it...

I agree...I'm glad they reduced the damage on holds. Blanka, Ken, Dhalsim, , Zangief Honda and Boxer benefit greatly from them. Well...Blanka, Dhalsim and Ken.

I just watched the Ties That Bind video. Except for the first Animated SFII movie, there hasn't been a good SF Anime. Not going to spoil it for anyone, but it was mostly talking heads and little fighting. And we revisit the Saitso No Hado storyline again. As an adaption of the SFIV storyline, it serves more as a setup for the story...but it doesn't explain a lot of the storyline holes = Bison's return, Why Sakura is still wearing that ridiculous outfit, etc. The animation is better than the ones included at the beginning and end of the single player.

While watching it, I wondered why they took out the special intros some of the characters shared like in Alpha and TS. Examples, Sagat touching his scar when fighting Ryu, Ken and Ryu fist bumping, etc.

I like the game...but it seems to be missing that special touch. Well back to trial...stuck on Abel and Cammy's fifth trials...my hands are aching...

Hey when are we going to play!

 

[Timedog]

good games HotForTetris1984!

Your vega is amazing.

 

[Spiderjericho]

Okay, I was just taking at the SRK thread...Ultras...the ruin of fighting games...

This video was posted at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WsBNOs2EQ&feature=PlayList&p=39F33DAF8CE53C0B&index=57

Right now, I'm in the middle on ultras. If you watch the video, the Crimson Viper was actually owning the Akuma player. But because Kuma had an ultra built up...and knew to exploit Viper's flame kick to land the SGS...he was able to win the matches and come back from defeat in three rounds. The concept of the Ultra is cool. But one's play style shouldn't have to switch to turtle fest the minute someone gets one... Viper is a character that has to be able to do her tricks in order to win. But to not flame kick...would nerf her strategy.

They definitely need to curb the focus attack absorbs, reduce the damage and only allow one per round.

BTW, that one Viper combo executed during the 1up stream was wicked. Can't wait until the download.

 

[Spiderjericho]

why is there no car beat'em up mini game?

DLC

 

[gutter_trash]

poor C.Viper!

 

[Arde5643]

poor C.Viper!

HI gutter_trash, are you up for some games?

I'm looking to develop some strats as Fuerte against Honda since I rarely play against him.

My xbl tag is mailarde if you're interested.

 

[kuYuri]

Holy shit, did Akuma's ultra always do that much damage? That first round was fucking ridiculous. :lol

 

[LakeEarth]

Yeah I dislike ultras as well. Meter should just be a reward for doing good, not poorly

 

[gutter_trash]

HI gutter_trash, are you up for some games?

I'm looking to develop some strats as Fuerte against Honda since I rarely play against him.

My xbl tag is mailarde if you're interested.

sure, i will be on soon, im just eating some Mini-Wheats in mid-afternoon

my PSN is JeRkY
whats your PSN?

 

[Arde5643]

sure, i will be on soon, im just eating some Mini-Wheats in mid-afternoon

my PSN is JeRkY
whats your PSN?

I'm on XBL - damn, I wanted to play you since I know your Honda's really good.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yeah I dislike ultras as well. Meter should just be a reward for doing good, not poorly

that C.Viper player work his ass off to get that big of a lead only to be dumb fucked by Akuma's exagerated damaging Ultra that is insanely easy to execute

I want more Supers (make them weaker for ballance) but more Supers
and allot less Ultras.

In SF3rd Strike, I would usually select the smaller practical Supers instead of the big damaging ones because the smaller ones had better uses during play such as the Corckscrew Blow and the Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku (Ken SA3)

 

[Cowie]

360 is "repaired" (replaced?) and on it's way back home. Can't wait to bust out this new TE stick on it ;x may have to learn a new character to celebrate.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm on XBL - damn, I wanted to play you since I know your Honda's really good.

sorry I am on PSN :S
I do intend on buying the 360 version soon and re-sign Gold

 

[Arde5643]

Any Gaffers wanna get frustrated by Fuerte? Hook me up in XBL - the tag's mailarde.

 

[Won]

Okay, I was just taking at the SRK thread...Ultras...the ruin of fighting games...

This video was posted at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WsBNOs2EQ&feature=PlayList&p=39F33DAF8CE53C0B&index=57

Right now, I'm in the middle on ultras. If you watch the video, the Crimson Viper was actually owning the Akuma player. But because Kuma had an ultra built up...and knew to exploit Viper's flame kick to land the SGS...he was able to win the matches and come back from defeat in three rounds. The concept of the Ultra is cool. But one's play style shouldn't have to switch to turtle fest the minute someone gets one... Viper is a character that has to be able to do her tricks in order to win. But to not flame kick...would nerf her strategy.

They definitely need to curb the focus attack absorbs, reduce the damage and only allow one per round.

BTW, that one Viper combo executed during the 1up stream was wicked. Can't wait until the download.

Ultras in their current form are stupid, but did that Viper really make the same mistake 3 times? Or is there somekind of a metastrategy going on with the out of reach flaming kicks?

 

[MIMIC]

Yeah I dislike ultras as well. Meter should just be a reward for doing good, not poorly

It's not always easy to make Ultras connect, though. I think that gives it a good balance.

 

[MIMIC]

Any Gaffers wanna get frustrated by Fuerte? Hook me up in XBL - the tag's mailarde.

This time around, you destroyed me :lol

Must have been boring playing Guile all the time. I tried to change it up by picking Sakura.... lol

ETA: DP

 

[Jazzy Network]

How the hell do you beat Blanka with Akuma?

 

[LakeEarth]

It's not always easy to make Ultras connect, though. I think that gives it a good balance.

True, usually it's supers that can be linked and ultras that have to be used in certain situations of punishment. Keep in mind I'm a 3rd Strike fanatic, so I much prefer supers to be more of the hit-confirm -> super kind.

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah I dislike ultras as well. Meter should just be a reward for doing good, not poorly

That simply encourages the winning player to finish quickly and carefully, while giving the losing player a fighting chance. That seems fair to me, if not laser-balanced. The biggest imbalance online right now is sticks versus pads.

Shit talking to a pad player while you pull off easy ultras on your $250 stick is pretty bad form, IMO.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I dislike the ultra/supers that can't be blocked or dodged, Akuma's springs to mind (or maybe it can, could be my total shiteness getting in the way)

 

[jordan0386]

The analog, on 360, serves me quite well.

I'm surprised so many are stuck are the dpad phase. But, we like what we like.

Great game, I can do all the moves. It just some of you guys, online, are way to aggressive. I wake up and there goes another uppercut.

Its cool, if we had like an automatic sweep or some shit to level it off. That would be nice.

 

[MIMIC]

I dislike the ultra/supers that can't be blocked or dodged, Akuma's springs to mind (or maybe it can, could be my total shiteness getting in the way)

The latter =p

I don't think I've EVER been caught by Akuma's ultra online (the stupid computer manages to get me, though). You know when it's coming (because of the animation break) so you can time your jump to get out of the way.

The analog, on 360, serves me quite well.

I'm surprised so many are stuck are the dpad phase. But, we like what we like.

I should really give it a try. My thumb is gonna be broken if I keep at the dpad

 

[SapientWolf]

That simply encourages the winning player to finish quickly and carefully, while giving the losing player a fighting chance. That seems fair to me, if not laser-balanced. The biggest imbalance online right now is sticks versus pads.

Shit talking to a pad player while you pull off easy ultras on your $250 stick is pretty bad form, IMO.

:lol I do all the hard challenges with the gamepad even though I'm trying to get some practice with a stick because there is an SFIV cabinet close to me. I've gotten so much practice with the pad that a stick is a liability in my mind.

As for ultras... They tend to reward people who have a strong offense and a weak defense (like me). It can turn the battle into an ultra tradeoff but at least it prevents the game from turning into a turtle fest, or a battle of super meter management.

 

[kuYuri]

How the hell do you beat Blanka with Akuma?

From SRK:

Originally Posted by MuKen View Post
I've said it before: I think Blanka is a slightly bad matchup for Akuma.

But it's not super bad. To answer the specific question of what to do against a turtling charged Blanka with meter, just back up full screen and throw occasional hadokens. The key is that at this range he can no longer EX them on reaction; he has to guess when you're going to do it. So if you do it very infrequently, then what can he do:

1) sit there keep his charge and take the chip damage; you can keep this up all day til he gives it up
2) jump over it; he no longer has charge, problem solved
3) focus absorb it; he no longer has charge, problem solved
3) EX ball; you'll be able to block it (punish him if you have demon), and he lost some meter

Just make sure you don't let him predict one.

(Muken in a different thread) Imo this matchup is all about playing mindgames and targetting his tools. You both know his EX will kill your ground/air fbs, so put yourself in situations where it looks like you will do one, and then punish his ball. Once you have him scared to ball, start focus absorbing all his nasty 1 hit pokes and slides and punishing him for those too.

 

[Phthisis]

Okay, I was just taking at the SRK thread...Ultras...the ruin of fighting games...

This video was posted at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WsBNOs2EQ&feature=PlayList&p=39F33DAF8CE53C0B&index=57

Right now, I'm in the middle on ultras. If you watch the video, the Crimson Viper was actually owning the Akuma player. But because Kuma had an ultra built up...and knew to exploit Viper's flame kick to land the SGS...he was able to win the matches and come back from defeat in three rounds. The concept of the Ultra is cool. But one's play style shouldn't have to switch to turtle fest the minute someone gets one... Viper is a character that has to be able to do her tricks in order to win. But to not flame kick...would nerf her strategy.

They definitely need to curb the focus attack absorbs, reduce the damage and only allow one per round.

BTW, that one Viper combo executed during the 1up stream was wicked. Can't wait until the download.

Completely disagree. In the first match, C. Viper had him dizzy, then used the focus attack, then wiffed the crumple attack. That was then round right there, and he fucked it up. His own fault; you need to put people away if you get their health down that far.

Secondly, the Akuma player isn't even using the Raging Demon well. The Viper player is just begging to catch an Ultra with stuff like LK flame kicks at that range. He has to know it's going to leave him open. That would be like standing next to a knocked down opponent and mashing jab or sweep: the Ultra on wake-up will nail you, and you have to know that it's a possibility.

I dislike the ultra/supers that can't be blocked or dodged, Akuma's springs to mind (or maybe it can, could be my total shiteness getting in the way)

It's not an automatic hit. Just jump. Even if Akuma's character model is touching you, you still have a couple frames to jump out of the way.

 

[jordan0386]

Yea dudes, analog with 3p 3k on the Right side is the way to go.

I just don't get how Guile's sonic boom isn't a qcf move when he literally has shit else to use!!!

At least let a brother cheese with the SB, then pull out an Ultra. He is based on a soldier, why is he such a punk?

 

[SapientWolf]

Yea dudes, analog with 3p 3k on the Right side is the way to go.

I just don't get how Guile's sonic boom isn't a qcf move when he literally has shit else to use!!!

At least let a brother cheese with the SB, then pull out an Ultra. He is based on a soldier, why is he such a punk?

His FA isn't that bad. He can also chain his super->ultra for decent damage. But you have to have a lot of patience to use him because his flash kicks are so easy to punish. I mained Guile for awhile until I switched to Bison and actually started winning for a change. He's a good person to start with if you want to learn charge characters but you'll likely want to graduate on to someone else to keep your W/L ratio high.

 

[arstal]

It's not that hard to land Akuma's ultra, unless the other guy is so scared of it that he adjusts his game to the point where he's open for a lot of other shenanigans.

 

[LakeEarth]

It's not that hard to land Akuma's ultra, unless the other guy is so scared of it that he adjusts his game to the point where he's open for a lot of other shenanigans.

I usually just avoid jumping if Akuma has meter, as grabbing me when I land is the way I've been hit by that super the most.

 

[jordan0386]

Guile can kiss my ass. Having to charge two moves in a row? I guess I could practice it.

He is useless vs shoto, in my play experience. That's all you really end up playing anyway.

Rufus is another great character, imo.

 

[Jazzy Network]

From SRK:

Fucking eh thanks. Beat my first Blanka while just sitting in the corner throwing hadokens and baiting him. Barely got hit at all too.

 

[2DMention]

I should play this some more this weekend. I haven't touched it in a week.

 

[xabre]

Guile can kiss my ass. Having to charge two moves in a row? I guess I could practice it.

He is useless vs shoto, in my play experience. That's all you really end up playing anyway.

In what way is Guile useless vs shoto? I've never had any real difficulties playing againt shoto's with Guile.