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The Official Street Fighter IV Thread of FADCing a Stranger in the Alps

A

arstal

Whine Whine FADC Troll
Well, Honda vs Abel. Abel can ignore headbutts pretty much, and his grapple game is better then Honda's- so the matchup is a pain in the ass.

Honda vs shotos. To me I think it's 4-6 vs Ryu and 3-7 vs Ken. Honda cannot use his headbutt vs Ken at ALL, even LP. Free f+RH for Ken on block.

SF4 to me is turning out like a typical Capcom game, with an underpowered mid tier as compared to top tier fighters such as VF, GG (though I think the game is no fun, the balance is solid), KOF98UM.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
arstal said:
Well, Honda vs Abel. Abel can ignore headbutts pretty much, and his grapple game is better then Honda's- so the matchup is a pain in the ass.

Honda vs shotos. To me I think it's 4-6 vs Ryu and 3-7 vs Ken. Honda cannot use his headbutt vs Ken at ALL, even LP. Free f+RH for Ken on block.

SF4 to me is turning out like a typical Capcom game, with an underpowered mid tier as compared to top tier fighters such as VF, GG (though I think the game is no fun, the balance is solid), KOF98UM.
Click to expand...

Well it's neither matchup specific like ST, or plagued by tier gaps like 3s. I think most of the characters are pretty solid and you can win with most of the cast, I'm just questioning certain matchups.

Also, why can abel ignore headbutts? Does he get wheelkick punish on block?
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Well it's neither matchup specific like ST, or plagued by tier gaps like 3s. I think most of the characters are pretty solid and you can win with most of the cast, I'm just questioning certain matchups.
Click to expand...

I'd agree from looking at the list, the game is pretty balanced. Though Ryu and Sagat seem to be the only ones without a negative match (but Ryu's problem is he's pretty even with a lot of characters). Rufus is pretty beastly except for against Zangief, Ryu, etc.

I'd say, even though I hate the whole ultra mechanism, that SFIV is probably one of the better balanced Capcom titles. The problem is unlike VF, which they do update (via small updates and upgrades), Capcom just chills and waits for a sequel to correct mistakes.

But SNK, ugh, they're games are known for being poorly balanced. KOF 2002UM. The bosses ruin that game. KOF 98 was already a pretty balanced game before hand. But other than that title, their games are erratic in balance, especially with all of the new systems they like to implement.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Spiderjericho said:
OOYAGIIIIII!! (SP). I can't believe Dan is the worst character again.

El Fuerte low tier? Not according to Japan's Ero:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5CWiQqcXzw

Yeah, I wonder what makes Blanka and Chun Li top tier and Rose high tier.

Has anyone made it to the S tier yet? And I doubt I'll make it to G1 anytime soon. I'm only on 3000GP and don't have the time to play two or four hours a day.
Click to expand...

Sweet vids lol, once we get footage of Buktooth's fuerte i'll pop it on here, i think he has the best fuerte in america.
 
A

Arpharmd B

Banned
Chun li on par with Ryu/Gief/Boxer etc.?? better than Dictator, Seth and Viper??

All I can say is, please don't pass that shit, whatever it is you are smoking. Throw it away, it's laced with PCP.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Arpharmd B said:
Chun li on par with Ryu/Gief/Boxer etc.?? better than Dictator, Seth and Viper??

All I can say is, please don't pass that shit, whatever it is you are smoking. Throw it away, it's laced with PCP.
Click to expand...

That shit is Arcadia magazine lol. Also Chun Li's been dominating for the past two months, especially at sbo qualifiers. Don't know where you're getting the notion that she's on par with them is such an outrageous ranking, results/performance say otherwise. The evidence is pretty strong.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Won said:
:lol

Can't believe he won something with that tactic. Loved the ending to the Ken fight. Finally someone punishes him properly and....TIGERUPPERCUT. :lol


Also :lol Rose on that tier list. Kinda hard to believe.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Arcadia's usually spot on, and I agree with the list for the most part, but Rose at A-tier has me confused lol.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
And is the list from Arcadia, as it has console characters?

And is Ero the top El Fuerte in Japan?

I'm looking at Oichi's Versuscity...and Sega released a new update to VF5R. Seriously, WTF Capcom. Between HDR and SFIV, they have no clue how to continue support of their games except by charging DLC for old costumes and giving a retarded championship mode.

Here's the latest Power Player list (courtesy of Oichi):

★Power 20★
1. Ojisanboi (Sagat) - 238,004
2. Mago (Sagat) - 229,494
3. Umehara (Ryu) - 204,048
4. RF (Sagat) - 195,304
5. Nemo (Chun) - 141,865
6. Shiro (Abel) - 128,667
7. Radiowave (Sagat) - 124,820
8. Tokidokinukinkusu (Chun) - 123,409
9. Uryo (C.Viper) - 117,737
10. Momochi (Akuma) - 113,994
11. Kindevu (Rufus) - 109,295 (+3)
12. Maakun (Sagat) - 106,222 (-1)
13. Tokido (Akuma) - 106,020 (+1)
14. Bouya (Zangief) - 105,815 (-1)
15. Ponchan (Sagat) - 105,038
16. Iyo (Dhalsim) - 103,209
17. Kindevu (C.Viper) - 98,595
18. Momochi (Ryu) - 97,504
19. Aojiru Guile (Balrog) - 93,740
20. Nova (Sagat) - 92,527

Too bad they don't show the top 40. And LOL at Momochi and Kindevu being on there twice. And what's the difference between TokidoNuki and Tokido. I thought Tokido was a Claw player in ST and Chun in TS. Nuki was a Chun player period.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Good point lol. Cuz of the time of the month, I just assumed it was Arcadia, my bad. Dunno about Ero, that vid you posted is the only one I've seen of him, pretty badass though.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Good point lol. Cuz of the time of the month, I just assumed it was Arcadia, my bad. Dunno about Ero, that vid you posted is the only one I've seen of him, pretty badass though.
Click to expand...

And I reedited my post. Kindevu and Momochi are beasting with two characters in the top 20. SBO isn't going to feature those console characters, so why would they rate them?

And yeah, he's pretty sick. He FA into the qcb dash to escape a situation. He's also sick with the mixups.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Spiderjericho said:
And I reedited my post. Kindevu and Momochi are beasting with two characters in the top 20. SBO isn't going to feature those console characters, so why would they rate them?

And yeah, he's pretty sick. He FA into the qcb dash to escape a situation. He's also sick with the mixups.
Click to expand...

Oh my SBO tidbit was on Nuki winning w/ Chun, and others winning w/ chun at the qualifiers which is why I think she has top tier potential.

and holy shit tokido has a long name lol!
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
I can accept Rose being B tier at best. She does terrible stun and her combos do far less damage than the average character. She also has no combo breaker type move. She's my co-main character, so I love using her, but she is no way no how on the level of the A-tier characters.
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
Spiderjericho said:
She is also deceptive. She can do damage quick because of her moves. You have to know how to string them together. If you're a combo monster, she's a good character. Her strengths from when people play me are her low fierce as an anti air, she has a decent (ok) cross up, okay pokes (low jab, low short, low forward, low and standing roundhouse) and sick combos. She can also set up her ultra by doing ex hurricane kick or FADC.
Click to expand...

I just have to say...her cross ups are absolute garbage and easily the worst in the game. Also she is horrible against anyone who knows anything about spacing. If these two factors weren't true, she'd probably be near Sagat level for the simple fact that if I have ultra meter I can literally take your entire life from one sequence preceded by a throw.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
qcf x2 said:
I just have to say...her cross ups are absolute garbage and easily the worst in the game. Also she is horrible against anyone who knows anything about spacing. If these two factors weren't true, she'd probably be near Sagat level for the simple fact that if I have ultra meter I can literally take your entire life from one sequence preceded by a throw.
Click to expand...


*ahem* boxer lol
 
Z

Zabka

Member
FindMyFarms said:
New tier list with matchup chart in op

edit - seems like all of Honda's bad matchups are against characters with great mid screen zoning (seth, dhalsim, guile, sagat) with one exception, Abel?! How is that a bad matchup for Honda? Any players wanna chime in on that?

also why's honda 5-5 w/ ryu, but 4-6 against Ken, does his kara give him fits or something?
Click to expand...
Abel's crossup is a nightmare for Honda, the wheel kick can shut down a lot of Honda's jump attacks, flying headbutt isn't safe on block, Abel's got an awesome Ultra with good setups, and his command throw is better. Both command throws have the same startup and similar range, but Abel's has throw invulnerability. So that sucks.

Only thing I could see for Ryu over Ken is that FP headbutt is safe on block.
 
AZ Greg

AZ Greg

Member
Can someone link to some high level Chun videos?

After playing Claw almost exclusively since launch, I've recently picked up Chun and have been trying to learn her. Would like to see how some of the better players go about business with her.
 
Vdragoon

Vdragoon

Member
Someone obviously does not play Chun nor watched top tier players use her. The only glaring weaknesses she has is no AA unless she has bar and her stamina.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
This was the last Arcadia tier list from Versus City:

Street Fighter 4
S: Sagat
A: Ryu, Akuma, Zangief
B: M.Bison, Rufus, Balrog, C.Viper, E.Honda
C: Abel, El Fuerte, Dhalsim, Chun-li, Blanka
D: Guile, Ken
E: Vega

Here's the link to the SRK thread with the "new" tier list:

Ninja edit: The link is not working well. But here is a link to the spreadsheet:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r3xr6TR9OhRx2GXmjQxcoIQ&single=true&gid=0&output=html

and to the tier list thread on SRK:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=174600&page=11

Madcatz TE stick sold out for 360. I don't see why people just don't buy the SE. Except for the better start/select buttons (they're 24mm Sanwa versus the cheap little buttons on SE), design (which I think is superior on SE) and the compartment, there really isn't any difference. You're probably saving a few bucks also.

And I never said Sakura was top tier. I was giving him advice on what might be some things to concentrate on. Fuerte isn't a GREAT character either, but there are some great players who make him dangerous. Ken sucks but Ed Ma or Alex Valle make him into a terror.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
More Nohoho goodness:

Mago lost to akuma players three times over the last month or so.
Tokido at SBO Qs
Asaba at TRF
MACHI at NSB6

SBO Character Representation as of May 24th
RY @
KE @
EH @@
CH @
BL @@@
ZA @
GU @@
DH @@
BX @
SG @@@@@@@@@
DI @
VI @@@
RU @@@@
AK @@@
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
Some Akuma action. Apparently, he is a difficult match for Sagat:
Click to expand...
Akuma lols at Sagat's fireball game.

I totally think Akuma is Sagat's worst matchup (even if it's still considered even) despite people saying, "BUT EVERY TIME SAGAT HITS AKUMA WITH A JAB AKUMA LOSES HALF HIS LIFE".
 
A

Arde5643

Member
_dementia said:
Why is Abel that low on the tier list? What are his shortcomings in a high-level setting?
Click to expand...
Most notably Gief, Sagat, and Akuma - all three are probably his worst match-ups.

Akuma and Gief are the worst though.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"Yeah, Arcadia's usually spot on, and I agree with the list for the most part, but Rose at A-tier has me confused lol."


I don't believe that tier list has anything to do with Arcadia or anything, I think it's just random dudes on the internet making that tier list. It'd be like if GAF made a tier list or something. I'd have to be convinced that Rose isn't one of the worst characters in the game (if not the worst).
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
I agree. There will need to be some tournaments going on with console characters to come to better conclusions, and if Japan is more willing to stick with Arcades, that'll be up to other countries that play on consoles more often in tournies.

Until then, I think Arcadia is the most accurate. Seth is probably the only console character that can really affect high level play anyway.
 
D

Dartastic

Member
Spiderjericho said:
Did you see the roundhouse loop he did on Sagat? Akuma is evil. Glad that he takes a lot of damage. And Ultra'ing the devil reverse was ingenius.

Here's a decent Sakura match vid for those who kind of want an idea of how to play her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVlGQn1Ocsg&feature=channel_page

Sakura vs. Balrog at a Ranbats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY_kEg97QjA
Click to expand...

I played that Sakura the other day! They're a good Sakura player, for sure. I'm pretty sure we both won a round, then I got spanked in the 3rd. =/
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
you talk about bad matchups...Balrog for Cammy is the hardest fucking match up. All Balrog has to do is sit and turtle. Cammy has no overheads and all of her specials are highly punishable on block. You have to poke and FA and hope the other guy makes a mistake. It's soooo tough.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
I remember when Gamepro used to do tier lists. Matt Taylor aka Slasher Quan was that dude (the Hyper guide, ST guide, Alpha and Alpha 2 guides were ill. The best American guides ever made).

And honestly, Crapcom should update the arcade version to include the console characters. Maybe that would help boost sales, as the arcade players may decide to dabble in the home version instead of living in the arcade.

That Sakura player's standing jabs into low forward SRK is a good combo. He's really good. He'd probably beat me.
 
R

Rummy Bunnz

Member
FindMyFarms said:
New tier list with matchup chart in op

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=192262

Wow at Rose being A tier, I'd really like to see the reasoning behind that, as I don't think she's A tier at all.

Also glad that Cammy's at B tier, I always thought she's a solid character, and not as bad as some make her out to be
Click to expand...
Yeah, she's kicking some ass. Check out her spot on the spreadsheet! She's better than...4 characters.

Isn't this tier list from some Japanese wiki? Why on earth do people keep linking to it. It's terrible. Though if there's proof that Rose isn't one of the worst characters in the game it would be pretty awesome and hilarious.
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
And honestly, Crapcom should update the arcade version to include the console characters. Maybe that would help boost sales, as the arcade players may decide to dabble in the home version instead of living in the arcade.
Click to expand...
And they'll include Dee Jay & T.Hawk call it SF4 Dash. >.> From what I heard discussed, it's likely that Capcom will make a new iteration for the Arcades before working on another console version so that the arcades will continue making money.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
KittenMaster said:
And they'll include Dee Jay & T.Hawk call it SF4 Dash. >.> From what I heard discussed, it's likely that Capcom will make a new iteration for the Arcades before working on another console version so that the arcades will continue making money.
Click to expand...

That's fine. But the problem is, they splinter their market. It's not anything new for console versions to have exclusive content, but it makes it difficult when the U.S. is mostly playing console version while the Japanese play arcade version. They should've updated the arcade version to have the new console characters. That way we could have relevant arcade lists.

And Dee Jay and T.Hawk are wack. Rolento isn't a bad idea. Then you have all of the complaints for TS characters. I wouldn't mind Guy (even though Fuerte kind of fills a similar role...sort of). Karin would also be cool. And I know I want new music and backgrounds.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Good point lol. Cuz of the time of the month, I just assumed it was Arcadia, my bad.
Click to expand...

Teknopathetic said:
I don't believe that tier list has anything to do with Arcadia or anything
Click to expand...

just had to kick me while I'm down didn't you!!

I think one of the things Akuma has goin for him is that the 2nd hit of his st. rh on block connects against a crouching Sagat, where as for most characters it whiffs. This is huge and let's him keep both frame advantage and pressure up.
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
They should've updated the arcade version to have the new console characters. That way we could have relevant arcade lists.
Click to expand...
Arcade tier lists will always remain relevant as long as the Arcade version since it's still the game where the majority of the cast's meta game will be developed.

When the Arcade game has console characters, it'll probably be a new game entirely. Until then, the console tier list will need some actual metagame development before we can take console tier lists seriously.

And Dee Jay and T.Hawk are wack. Rolento isn't a bad idea. Then you have all of the complaints for TS characters. I wouldn't mind Guy (even though Fuerte kind of fills a similar role...sort of). Karin would also be cool. And I know I want new music and backgrounds.
Click to expand...
The only reason I mentioned Dee Jay & T.Hawk is because Capcom actually attempted to put them in the game, so they're the only realistic characters that I can see in a new iteration in my eyes.
 
A

Arpharmd B

Banned
FindMyFarms said:
That shit is Arcadia magazine lol. Also Chun Li's been dominating for the past two months, especially at sbo qualifiers. Don't know where you're getting the notion that she's on par with them is such an outrageous ranking, results/performance say otherwise. The evidence is pretty strong.
Click to expand...

That is not an Arcadia tier.

Arcadias has her with Abel, Dhalsim, and Blanka, below Ruf/Box/Dictator and top Ryu Zangief etc. That list is just random compiled whatever from a Japanese source (read the SRK thread).

Chun is OK but she is no way shape or form 1st or second tier.

Where did you see Chuns dominating an SBO qualifier? What? If it's true link me to some videos, otherwise I think you are confused with 3rd Strike.
 
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