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The Official Street Fighter IV Thread of FADCing a Stranger in the Alps

P

PhatSaqs

Banned
FindMyFarms said:
LOL pun not intended, but my statement stands:lol :lol :lol

@Saqs - GG's man! Sorry bout that ragequit at the end after your badass comeback, I got dc'ed and now I can't seem to connect to psn :/
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Not a problem sir. GGs. Hope all the ROSE was diverse enough (im not leet enuff to use other characters).
 
T

Threi

notag
FindMyFarms said:
Jeez, cammy gets a lot of flak here on GAF.

She's like Rufus but more well rounded, less life though. Easily a B tier character. Gets owned by Rog and Honda hard, but does extremely well against the Trinity.
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see i know you're bullshitting because nobody in the game is more well rounded than Rufus.


anyways my cousin plays Cammy pretty well, I just have a very, VERY hard time against Cannon Spike. It damn near shuts down all of Bison's options. I have to rely on him fucking up every other move (that I agree are all pretty crappy) to win.

All of Cammy's moves need a buff, but for the love of god tone down Cannon Spike.
 
G

Garcian

Member
I've been using random select a lot recently in player matches & it doesn't seem particularly, well, random. I was given Blanka 3 times yesterday when facing a 'Sim.
 
M

myDingling

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Jeez, cammy gets a lot of flak here on GAF.

She's like Rufus but more well rounded, less life though. Easily a B tier character. Gets owned by Rog and Honda hard, but does extremely well against the Trinity.
Click to expand...

She's totally a gimmick character is the problem. Once you know her safe/unsafe spacing and how to evade her specials, she's shit out of luck. No cross-up, mediocre pokes, unsafe specials, no overhead, there's so much stacked against her. Not saying she's bad, I definitely think she's high-mid tier, but it's kinda fuck up when all of her options can basically be beaten by cr.LP with most characters.

Also, isn't Rufus' dive kick safe on block? That alone makes him shit tons better than cammy.
 
T

Threi

notag
What I want to know is if by some miracle Cammy vs Bison is an even matchup, and a detailed explanation why.

Even shotos with all their bullshit don't completely shut down bison, but vs cammy (or more specifically vs cannon strike) it is pretty much throws and evading to win. No specials at all (even ex) or else CANNON SPIKE to the face. Cant build meter with quick DR, because CANNON SPIKE still catches you. Cant use hs or EX hs as a meaty, because CANNON SPIKE catches you. Can throw out a surprise scissors/ex scissors/psycho/ex psycho because CANNON SPIKE catches you. Cant really bait it (unless you use teleport back shenanigans that actually work pretty well) like you can SRK, horizontal range means that nobody with a brain would CS when just out of range. Whiffed CS flies over your head and crosses you up, making you lose your b/f charge (you can retain d/u charge but HS will whiff due to sucky tracking and you can't do it pre-emptively because HK Cannon spike will beat headstomp clean on all frames until recovery (her falling back down). On block she bounces so far back that you either use your charge for getting one hit of hk scissors in (do it a frame too slow and eat another CANNON SPIKE) or if you have no charge just dash in to get a little distance in (dash + st. hk won't reach her)

But yeah all of her other moves are free (I get most of my damage from blocked spiral arrows although it must be linked to c.lk because punishing it directly with scissors/hs = CANNON SPIKE)


It's actually amusing since my younger cousin complains that we both use overpowered chars (he complains that Bison's st.hk is overpowered, which i would agree with except he has no anti-air) yet he mains Ryu.
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
myDingling said:
Explain please.
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Well, an EX move is fast enough that you can use it fairly reliably to counter his dash punches. A knockdown EX move means it'll put him on his ass where you're in relative control.



Jeez, cammy gets a lot of flak here on GAF.

She's like Rufus but more well rounded, less life though. Easily a B tier character. Gets owned by Rog and Honda hard, but does extremely well against the Trinity
Click to expand...

I think the board is overrating her, and i use her a lot. Rufus has way more options, I think. I'm hoping they give her a mini buff. A weak overhead or one more chain/link combo sequence or something.
 
M

myDingling

Member
Threi said:
What I want to know is if by some miracle Cammy vs Bison is an even matchup, and a detailed explanation why.

Even shotos with all their bullshit don't completely shut down bison, but vs cammy (or more specifically vs cannon strike) it is pretty much throws and evading to win. No specials at all (even ex) or else CANNON SPIKE to the face.
Click to expand...

Stay away from headstomp for the most part (C.Spike beats it clean). Cammy is really bad at midrange. All her tools to get close to you are fairly unsafe. Use that to your advantage. Abuse the fact that you can space your LK sissors much easier than she space her Spiral Arrow. Once you have her in the corner, she's thoroughly effed. cr.LK,MK pokes+safe sissor kick+s.RH will pretty much neutralize her.

And if the dive kicks are getting to you, understand that her only safe dive kick is when she does the TKCS motion which is pretty hard to do consistently. If she hits your waist or above, it's unsafe. Jab, sissor kick, throw or whatever. If she is doing her safe version, just block and wait for the throw tech.

Oh and blocked C.Spike is easy punish for you as well.

Just block...always block...crouch block is best...
 
T

Threi

notag
myDingling said:
And if the dive kicks are getting to you, understand that her only safe dive kick is when she does the TKCS motion which is pretty hard to do consistently. If she hits your waist or above, it's unsafe. Jab, sissor kick, throw or whatever. If she is doing her safe version, just block and wait for the throw tech.
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Cannon strike on wakeup isn't too bad, I sometimes get screwed over by it but that is just regular pressure, nothing wrong with that.

I only have one problem with cammy as a character, and that is simply her cannon spike. I don't believe giving a char shit specials, normals, and a godly anti-air is a good idea of balance.


btw I consistently win vs the cammy player in question, i just hate having to resort to Gief levels of game changing to avoid the fucking cannon spike.
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
Threi said:
Cannon strike on wakeup isn't too bad, I sometimes get screwed over by it but that is just regular pressure, nothing wrong with that.

I only have one problem with cammy as a character, and that is simply her cannon spike. I don't believe giving a char shit specials, normals, and a godly anti-air is a good idea of balance.

btw I consistently win vs the cammy player in question, i just hate having to resort to Gief levels of game changing to avoid the fucking cannon spike.
Click to expand...


If Cammy misses the spike she's dead meat...unlike Captain Flyaway and his safe zones. The grass is always greener :)
 
T

Threi

notag
qcf x2 said:
If Cammy misses the spike she's dead meat...unlike Captain Flyaway and his safe zones. The grass is always greener :)
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For other chars she is, not for Bison. I already explained it above, and ranted about it constantly in this thread several times :lol

A whiffed SRK is a thousand times easier to punish than a whiffed Cannon Spike.

btw Captain Flyaway is grounded because of Cannon Spike, like i said. That is probably why i hate that damn move so much, i want to be freeee
 
A

Arpharmd B

Banned
I've reached boredom level with my main.

So I switched to Guile and. Am winning? What the hell?

Guile is actually fun as shit to use, and I feel all oldschool boom zoning and his normals are good. I like him, but I'm moving towards Abel as a 2nd character.

I'm for real learning Abel ins and outs. Already I can tell he is so much better equipped to fight Ryu than Rufus. What is his bread and butter punish? Just the qcf p 3 hit canned combo? Throw? I hate his sweep, so damn slow, and c.MK... wtf is that supposed to be lol.

I really wish this game had Alex. Abel is ok but I miss Alex so bad.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
myDingling said:
She's totally a gimmick character is the problem. Once you know her safe/unsafe spacing and how to evade her specials, she's shit out of luck. No cross-up, mediocre pokes, unsafe specials, no overhead, there's so much stacked against her. Not saying she's bad, I definitely think she's high-mid tier, but it's kinda fuck up when all of her options can basically be beaten by cr.LP with most characters.
Click to expand...


Cammy's only crappy special IMO is spin knuckle, her other moves server their purposes. When spaced right arrow is safe on block, and has lots of meaty setups off her forward throw, not to mention lk arrow option selected off max spaced cr. mk is safe as fuck and gives her mid space game a reliable tool.

Cannon spike is nice as fuck, probably the best AA in the game along with Seth's dp. And by good, I mean legitimately good with high priority, not trade into ultra bs.

myDingling said:
Also, isn't Rufus' dive kick safe on block? That alone makes him shit tons better than cammy.
Click to expand...

This is what makes cammy a more well rounded Rufus, her dive kicks when TK spiked (or properly set up via meaty after knock down) have TWICE as much frame advantage (I believe +7) on block than Rufus' dive kicks! Your criticizing her yet you don't use the tool that comprises a good 80% of her in close mixups. In the same way that Rufus forces the opponent to make a decision after a dive kick, Cammy has the same meta game/setups when in close, except with MORE options. Here dive kicks are so much better!!!

Also any time a Cammy player finishes a combo with Cannon Spike, they have no idea what they're doing.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Cromulent_Word said:
I am genuinely interested in an explanation of this point.
Click to expand...

Ok I might have overstated that :lol :lol

But the jist of it is arrow gives her perfect spacing to meaty the dive kick after a knockdown and continue her mixups while maintaining momentum and control of the match, where as cannon spike essentially puts her back in the mid screen game and essentially resets the match. Spike has it's uses against characters like Gief where you want em to get the F off you, but arrow finishes give her the set ups that make her an offensive monster.

Here's an example from the Chris Hu vs Sanford match, VERY important sequence of events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQmemYKz9-Q#t=03m00s

First strike connects, and he follows up with another. Chris Hu has to make a decision between the strikes, he opts to throw and gets punished for it. Sanford gets a fat combo off of it, and ends with ARROW. Right after the arrow he uses the spacing to set up a meaty dive kick which chris hu eats into a fat combo, ALSO ending with arrow. After that, Sanford FAKES the meaty dive kick (i.e. does it early so it actually whiffs right before they get up, its hella ambiguous) to bait a reversal, at this point Chris Hu is finished.

Two things to keep in mind - not a single combo ended with cannon spike, and sanford maintained offensive momentum throughout the whole match with dive kick mix ups set up off arrow knockdowns.

Before anyone says Cammy gets beat by blocking low and throw techs, learn how to play your character first!
 
C

Cromulent_Word

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Ok I might have overstated that :lol :lol

But the jist of it is arrow gives her perfect spacing to meaty the dive kick after a knockdown and continue her mixups while maintaining momentum and control of the match, where as cannon spike essentially puts her back in the mid screen game and essentially resets the match. Spike has it's uses against characters like Gief where you want em to get the F off you, but arrow finishes give her the set ups that make her an offensive monster.

Here's an example from the Chris Hu vs Sanford match, VERY important sequence of events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQmemYKz9-Q#t=03m00s

First strike connects, and he follows up with another. Chris Hu has to make a decision between the strikes, he opts to throw and gets punished for it. Sanford gets a fat combo off of it, and ends with ARROW. Right after the arrow he uses the spacing to set up a meaty dive kick which chris hu eats into a fat combo, ALSO ending with arrow. After that, Sanford FAKES the meaty dive kick (i.e. does it early so it actually whiffs right before they get up, its hella ambiguous) to bait a reversal, at this point Chris Hu is finished.

Two things to keep in mind - not a single combo ended with cannon spike, and sanford maintained offensive momentum throughout the whole match with dive kick mix ups set up off arrow knockdowns.

Before anyone says Cammy gets beat by blocking low and throw techs, learn how to play your character first!
Click to expand...
Thanks - great explanation. Also, that match shows how cammy's ultra will always beat rog's if you time it well.
 
M

myDingling

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Cammy's only crappy special IMO is spin knuckle, her other moves server their purposes. When spaced right arrow is safe on block, and has lots of meaty setups off her forward throw, not to mention lk arrow option selected off max spaced cr. mk is safe as fuck and gives her mid space game a reliable tool.

Cannon spike is nice as fuck, probably the best AA in the game along with Seth's dp. And by good, I mean legitimately good with high priority, not trade into ultra bs.
Click to expand...

When spaced right LK is safe, but it's soooo damn hard to get that spacing right. Why? Because she's at -17 frames with that thing. That's more than twice as much as similar attacks for other characters (Tiger knee, sissor kick, rose's soul spiral). This mean she's has to place herself in a very awkward place to get a safe SA where she can't bust out a block string or use any decent pokes. Although, I will try that option select cr.MK, sounds good. But in general, safe LK SA is not something she can rely on.


FindMyFarms said:
This is what makes cammy a more well rounded Rufus, her dive kicks when TK spiked (or properly set up via meaty after knock down) have TWICE as much frame advantage (I believe +7) on block than Rufus' dive kicks! Your criticizing her yet you don't use the tool that comprises a good 80% of her in close mixups. In the same way that Rufus forces the opponent to make a decision after a dive kick, Cammy has the same meta game/setups when in close, except with MORE options. Here dive kicks are so much better!!!

Also any time a Cammy player finishes a combo with Cannon Spike, they have no idea what they're doing.
Click to expand...

Yeah but the motion for TKCS isn't the most reliable thing. Even sanford messes that shit up a lot and it leaves you ridiculously vulnerable when you do. Also, as far as I know, her C.Strike can't truly cross-up like Rufus' dive kick. She can end up on the other side of you, but you don't have to block the other way (I could be wrong about this though).

She has nice tools, she's not completely borked like some characters, but what she has needs tweaking. If TKCS would just not get stuffed by jabs, it would probably increase her viability a billion fold without making her overpowered.
 
K

Killa Sasa

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Ok I might have overstated that :lol :lol

But the jist of it is arrow gives her perfect spacing to meaty the dive kick after a knockdown and continue her mixups while maintaining momentum and control of the match, where as cannon spike essentially puts her back in the mid screen game and essentially resets the match. Spike has it's uses against characters like Gief where you want em to get the F off you, but arrow finishes give her the set ups that make her an offensive monster.

Here's an example from the Chris Hu vs Sanford match, VERY important sequence of events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQmemYKz9-Q#t=03m00s

First strike connects, and he follows up with another. Chris Hu has to make a decision between the strikes, he opts to throw and gets punished for it. Sanford gets a fat combo off of it, and ends with ARROW. Right after the arrow he uses the spacing to set up a meaty dive kick which chris hu eats into a fat combo, ALSO ending with arrow. After that, Sanford FAKES the meaty dive kick (i.e. does it early so it actually whiffs right before they get up, its hella ambiguous) to bait a reversal, at this point Chris Hu is finished.

Two things to keep in mind - not a single combo ended with cannon spike, and sanford maintained offensive momentum throughout the whole match with dive kick mix ups set up off arrow knockdowns.

Before anyone says Cammy gets beat by blocking low and throw techs, learn how to play your character first!
Click to expand...

Gotta agree with this. I'm an offender of ending all my bnb's with Spike, and it does make it harder to maintain momentum as opposed to arrow, which keeps you right on top of them. The extra dash you have to use to stay on top with a Spike takes too much time and takes away some mind games. I think the trade-off is 50 less stun and 10 damage and a little less bar (she builds bar insanely fast anyway), so unless you have the bars for some FADC magic or are close to getting a stun, arrow is likely the way to go.

I don't do it because I have a hard time getting a Hado motion instead of SRK when I try to arrow in combo's after an FP. It definitely is a small thing that makes a big difference though.

And Cammy is good, I would say probably tied for 10th with Bison (who is also beastly in the right hands. If his combos didn't scale so hard he would be even higher).
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
myDingling said:
When spaced right LK is safe, but it's soooo damn hard to get that spacing right. Why? Because she's at -17 frames with that thing. That's more than twice as much as similar attacks for other characters (Tiger knee, sissor kick, rose's soul spiral). This mean she's has to place herself in a very awkward place to get a safe SA where she can't bust out a block string or use any decent pokes. Although, I will try that option select cr.MK, sounds good. But in general, safe LK SA is not something she can rely on.




Yeah but the motion for TKCS isn't the most reliable thing. Even sanford messes that shit up a lot and it leaves you ridiculously vulnerable when you do. Also, as far as I know, her C.Strike can't truly cross-up like Rufus' dive kick. She can end up on the other side of you, but you don't have to block the other way (I could be wrong about this though).

She has nice tools, she's not completely borked like some characters, but what she has needs tweaking. If TKCS would just not get stuffed by jabs, it would probably increase her viability a billion fold without making her overpowered.
Click to expand...

Safe lk SA is really reliable, it's a great meaty set up off knockdown. Also TKCS is reliable enough. Everyone messes up execution, hell look at Valle effin up srk fadc rofl. Anyways, it's not something that ruins her game at all, and the Cammy players I run with (who have better cammy's than Sanford imo) never mess it up.

Air spike isn't a crossup, but timing/spacing affects whether or not it connects which gives her more mixups.

@bolded part - throw! If you know they're mashing jab to stuff your next tkcs, you can throw after a dive kick every single time also st. mp after dive kick crushes any any normal (including jabs) and lets you hit confirm into cr. short/strong xx spiral arrow.

Cammy's not S-tier, she could use a few tweaks here and there, but overall I think she's perfectly fine and easily capable of winning tourneys (which she has.)
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
BotoxAgent said:
the less I have to turn to SRK for advice the better :lol Thanks GAF
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Find is great. In that team tourney, way, way, way back he'd spar with me and provide character specific matchup tips. It definitely helped.

And the cool thing about him is he's always tinkering with characters. So if you want to play against Ken, Ryu, Dan, Fei Long, Viper, Boxer, etc, he can oblige. I haven't played Saqs, Haunts or Galactic, but I'd say he's the best SFIV player on GAF (if you don't count Fubar or Yeb).

HD Remix it's prob Eggo.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
i played him once and he destroyed me but he gave me great advice. Rogs is my worst matchup...and with Farms behind the wheel....I knew I was in for some butthurt :lol
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
BotoxAgent said:
great explanation of Cammy's offense Farms. My noob ass never saw it that way.
Click to expand...

Spiderjericho said:
I have to say. Find is chock full of advice. He's like Gaf's dean of SF.
Click to expand...

Oh man, I wish I could take credit for the Cammy info, but all the knowledge about her and her setups came from 2dTony/Vietnamazing, who funny enough is the same person that taught Sanford the Arrow mixups after putting him into losers in Evo!

I wouldn't call myself the best on gaf, I still have a lot to learn >.< I road Spiderjericho all the way to the top in the team tourney!

@killa - I don't care what you do with cammy, you make her sexy as fuck. And yeah, good bison's are fuckin scary. Final counts between me and Jop are usually his lead 20-2 or something stupid like that.

And yeah.. stay away from the non tech/regional boards on srk lol!
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Find is definitely the most thoughtful and helpful person in this thread. He along with Maj, Timekiller and few others I can't think of at the moment helped me a lot to get me where I am now. I could barely do a standard FADC, Ultra back then but thanks to tips and encouragement, I can do stuff like FA LV3, solar plexus, c.fp, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, mk, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, standing mp, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, standing mk, hadouken, fadc, crouching mk, ex tatsu, ex shoryu, Ultra now. :lol

Oh, if you want that Ryu challenge song, I can upload it for you.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Wow those are AWESOME
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
M

Majestros

You can't handle the truth!
Kadey said:
Find is definitely the most thoughtful and helpful person in this thread. He along with Maj, Timekiller and few others I can't think of at the moment helped me a lot to get me where I am now. I could barely do a standard FADC, Ultra back then but thanks to tips and encouragement, I can do stuff like FA LV3, solar plexus, c.fp, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, mk, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, standing mp, hadouken, fadc, crouching mp, standing mk, hadouken, fadc, crouching mk, ex tatsu, ex shoryu, Ultra now. :lol
Click to expand...
Thanks for mentioning me but i gotta admit i've been dropping the ball on the strategy end. Writing strategy articles was one of the things i was most excited about when i decided to do weekly updates on my website.

But after talking myself into recording SF4 combos on a regular schedule, the strategy articles have suffered the most. Somehow they always get left until the last minute. I never have time to attach any multimedia to them, so it's always just dry text. Plus there's sooo much to talk about that it's really hard to approach Street Fighter tactics on a piecemeal basis. In all these years, i don't think anyone's managed to do a good job of writing the definitive SF strategy guide.
 
B

BitchTits

Member
Recent musings on XBL play:

I just a got a msg after a match saying "nub stats" (I think they meant 'strats') = noob strategies?

I won the match. I don't get it, if you lost to "nub stats", it says more about you than it does me! :-?

Speaking of "nub stats" - What the hell is with all these Akumas who think they going to win the match by mashing (and failing repeatedly) Super/Ultra at full screen distance? I usually just stand there in amazement and let them hammer it out. They really do think you will just stand there like the CPU does!
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
BitchTits said:
Speaking of "nub stats" - What the hell is with all these Akumas who think they going to win the match by mashing (and failing repeatedly) Super/Ultra at full screen distance? I usually just stand there in amazement and let them hammer it out. They really do think you will just stand there like the CPU does!
Click to expand...
Ran into one of these today. Dude could not pull it off, either. I was playing as Dan and just taunted the entire time while he was trying to mash it out with about 5 seconds left in the match, closing with a super taunt just before the time over victory.

So awesome.
 
M

Majestros

You can't handle the truth!
Not sure how many people care about this kind of info, but i've been looking into the SF4 juggle engine and here's what i've found so far:

SF4 Combo System Exploration, Part 1

It's still incomplete but hopefully it'll get people talking and sharing findings. I'll post a "Part 2" whenever we find something major or get everything cleared up.
 
S

Steaks

Member
Maj I think the mystery about Ken's HP shoryuken is self contained moves keep the juggle property that they caused (first hit of HP shoryuken). So the second hit is effectively ignored since it's still "the first move", once you do the second HP shoryuken (2nd hit only), that move uses the 2nd moves juggle state.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
This sort of thing just fries my sort of thing that fries my brain.

And it makes sense since it's just counterpicking counterpicks that counterpicked the previous counterpick and so on.
 
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