StrongBlackVine
Banned
Give me an example of a game with next gen gameplay. Nemesis system is the only thing I can think of.
The Order: 1886 has gone gold
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Give me an example of a game with next gen gameplay. Nemesis system is the only thing I can think of.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I would gladly watch an entire movie that looks like that.
Oh, no, let's not start this again. The term "next gen gameplay" is getting really annoying now. What exactly does it even mean? What do people expect from it? In the end, this debate ends up being pointless.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
They'll never define it, just like people could never define what 'potential' meant when it came to Kinect. It's just expecting 'something else' when 'what we have' is already good enough. We should be obsessed with 'refining' gameplay, it's much easier to quantify and a more realistic expectation.
RisesRises
Banned
I still don't understand why they decided to go with the very cinematic experience. From what i've seen, gameplay already frustrates me, at least in some sequences.
It's shame because the story and the overall atmosphere and background look great.
It's shame because the story and the overall atmosphere and background look great.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
So you don't understand why RAD went with a 'cinematic experience', but they're actually your favourite parts?
And what's frustrating you about the gameplay?
Nightengale
Member
a. They like third-person shooters.
b. They really liked Uncharted 2.
c. Their main experience as a studio, was developing 2 linear action games, with a strong narrative and a cinematic slant. (GoW PSP games)
this game ill review poorly, not because the game its bad but because the gaming media seems to have no identity when it comes to different opinions and thus everyone will have a paragraph stating last gen gameplay but at the same there will be no constructive criticism as how next gen gameplay should be, i still think that basing a purchase on some other dude scoring a game is plain stupid, wait a week or so after the game is out, watch videos on different streaming outlets and make a choice but let someone put an idea of what a product is seems to me rather ignorant and shows that some people is incapable of creating their own opinion and have to let others decide for them
How can you see frustrating gameplay without actually playing the game?
-19 days left.
Really looking forward to play the game. I hope to see a great story with a lot of suspence which keeps the player going on to find out what's next.
About the gameplay I think it's clear what to expect, the game will be heavily guided by interactive cutscenes, gameplay will be a mix of different elements like tps sections, melee combats with QTEs, stealth sections and mini-games involving gadgets and inventions of the time. I think that while it won't be innovative it can be really good for what it is.
I expect really poor reviews, gaming outlets have made up their mind on this long ago.
Really looking forward to play the game. I hope to see a great story with a lot of suspence which keeps the player going on to find out what's next.
About the gameplay I think it's clear what to expect, the game will be heavily guided by interactive cutscenes, gameplay will be a mix of different elements like tps sections, melee combats with QTEs, stealth sections and mini-games involving gadgets and inventions of the time. I think that while it won't be innovative it can be really good for what it is.
I expect really poor reviews, gaming outlets have made up their mind on this long ago.
Nightengale
Member
I think it's somewhat hilarious that some press are somehow aren't able to wrap their heads around The Order as a concept. In that adding layers of different gameplay, gimmicks, or pace-breakers into a third-person shooter somehow makes it not-a-shooter, but a hodgepodge of QTEs and something without an identity.
I feel like this quote about The Order, from Polygon, is one of the best descriptions regarding the game.
I feel like this quote about The Order, from Polygon, is one of the best descriptions regarding the game.
The press wanted a next gen Gears of War based in victorian London.
The current way of thinking is that if you're not open world, if the player isn't always in control of what to do and QTEs are used to do things you could do with action gameplay, the game sucks.
That basically applies to everyone except for TellTales games which has milked their QTE formula to death worse than Ubisoft with AC and keeps getting good scores
RisesRises
Banned
The gameplay is nothing like Uncharted 2, that's the point. It would have been good if it was the case, and i wouldn't have called it a very cinematic experience.
Is this confirmed? That will by smexy if so.
Nightengale
Member
That's why point (a) and point (b) are separate. Just because they were wowed by the roller-coaster ride of Uncharted didn't mean they suddenly wanted to make Knights Climbing and Jumping like Nathan Drake. They wanted to evoke the same moment-to-moment vibe that Uncharted 2 had, but with a different style of third-person shooter game instead.
I'm sure half the gaming industry was influenced by Uncharted 2 in some shape or form, but that didn't spawn loads of copy-cats.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
The press wanted a next gen Gears of War based in victorian London.
The current way of thinking is that if you're not open world, if the player isn't always in control of what to do and QTEs are used to do things you could do with action gameplay, the game sucks.
That basically applies to everyone except for TellTales games which has milked their QTE formula to death worse than Ubisoft with AC and keeps getting good scores
it's gonna be one of those games gamers will love and gaming enthusiasts will hate.
there will be sheep that allow these enthusiasts to dictate their opinion on the order but luckily stronger willed players can make their own decisions.
RisesRises
Banned
One example: this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZApOsCc1oI
Gameplay is cut every 5 seconds, and your freedom of action is extremly limited.
It's not the QTE of a boss you have been attacking for a while (GOW), it's a whole sequence.
hotnheavyload
Banned
Not long to go, then you'll all have something new to argue about! 
I'm very curious as to what they do with the setting. Will I be able to battle it out in East London rookeries? I hope so.
I'm very curious as to what they do with the setting. Will I be able to battle it out in East London rookeries? I hope so.
But this is making things that would previously be a cinematic (introducing the lycan) more playable. It's actually trying to do the same thing Uncharted tried to do.
If I remember right, this was also heavily edited for the stage show.
Nightengale
Member
A highly scripted sequence.
Plenty of games have moments with whole sequences where you're forced into a very constrained gameplay situation. TLoU has one or two 'forced walk' scenarios that's very limited because reasons. Uncharted has some of them as well.
This as well.
This is equivalent to Drake running from a truck and you shooting at it. Both are super-scripted, extremely limited gameplay situations where they gave you gameplay in what would've normally been just a cutscene, just to make it a bit more interactive.
"During my time with The Order I climbed 0 towers meaning I had no idea where all the little useless collectables where, 5/10" -Eurogamer.net
This is an 11 minute sequence they had to cut down to 3 for stage time which messes up the actual pacing of standard gameplay and the prompts. It's also a tutorial introduction, which tends to be more scripted anyway.
Nah, most people do the big shop on a Saturday on Sunday so defo not finishing by Monday.
See from 2:48 onwards.. Why would game designers do this? What purpose does it serve with having that triangle prompt? Again why have camera cut at 3:09. Like all of this shit could have been done in regular gameplay but to show pointless drama they decided to make these cuts. It just does not make sense to me. RAD seems to have excellent core shooting mechanics and gameplay. The designers should always try to bring that to the forefront instead of this pointless stuff.
I am just happy that it is not some straight up Quantic Dream level of shittiness (shake the controller to brush your teeth, press -> to turn over in bed, etc). While there are still quick time events and lots of interactive moments that would otherwise be cutscenes, it looks like there is plenty of competent third person gameplay, with some amazing weaponry as well. I am okay with that.
Nightengale
Member
Now this I agree with.
At least from what we've seen, there's parts of the game's interactive cutscene model that feels iffy. That Blackwater prompt is one of them. I think that should've been cutscene. Or the 3-2-1 countdown. Individual button presses for each countdown feels excessive.
RisesRises
Banned
I agree with you on that, but don't you feel that this is different in the balance between gameplay and cinematics and also between what you can do and what you can't do?
In Uncharted, sure you have moment like this when you only can shoot while sliding as the world collapses but before you went there, you always had a lot of actions and exploration that gave you the illusion of freedom.
Here you walk in corridor slowly for a while, then you fight straightly in a very restrictive way what is supposed to be a boss.
For me it isn't a difference of nature, it's a difference of balance between freedom (mostly of action, as Uncharted and GOW are linear games) and cinematics.
Sure.
But from what we saw, the balance between freedom of approach, freedom of actions and cinematics or very restrictive gameplay is very different in TLOU and in The Order, though they share some similar highly scripted sequences.
Furthermore, cinematics are much more intrusive in The Order, the camera just shift and you loose control for some seconds.
My english is too limited for me to go into deep gameplay comparisons, as i don't have the vocabulary necessary for it.
RAGE did the same thing with its revival mechanic and I don't think the press got it.
LightofRohan
Member
For consistency and keeping you on edge. Whenever gallahad drinks his black water, you press triangle (ingame and cinematic). I don't understand why people have an issue with it... It also reinforced that the footage is real-time, not prerendered. It also gives the feeling like you are never "safe" you always have to be somewhat present at any monent you can die. It's really not that big of an issue.
Nightengale
Member
I agree with you, but I feel like it's also an unfair comparison at this juncture, given that the 'cinematic sequences' are different in tone and approach.
I mean, the Order's sequence isn't perfect by any measure ( I wrote above my criticisms in agreeing with Game4Life on how some prompts feel off ), but it's also different because it's meant to be slow-paced and filled with a dreadful horror vibe. We don't know if a different scripted sequence that's more actiony will have this same issue, because the vibes are different.
This, I agree. The Order, even from the 30 minutes PSX demo where it's got a longer playtime as a whole, cinematics are more intrusive, prevalent and at times, the game doesn't give you context of control because of said camera shifts.
That definitely needs some working on for future games.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Yeah. Not sure on that. I'm supposed to be covering it for my site and I've not heard anything from my editor on when he is getting it to send out yet. I've not heard of any others having it yet personally, but waiting patiently.
Nightengale
Member
I know it'll detract from the 'cinematic camera', but if it was me, I'd at least shift the camera to something that's back in a more gameplay camera feel, ( pan-out with Galahad on the ground, etc), to inform the player that 'you need to do something now to get your health back up.'
This is honestly, my main criticism/concern regarding The Order. The game gives you control during different parts of the game, even in moments that's cut-scene-ish. But because the cinematic camera largely keeps your control of the character as if it's a cut-scene, it also has the ability to take it away from you suddenly.
Eg. The PSX demo opening scene where you were rappelling down the Zepellin and crossing the metal bars over to the door. The game gives you control of the character from beginning up till the end of the metal bar, but it also suddenly takes it away when it transitions seamlessly into cutscene where the scene where you enter the door was cutscene and no longer controlled by you.
To be honest at this point no one knows how the full game will be.
It's obviously wrong to have already decided that it sucks because it's too linear and cinematic as most of the gaming press has done so far.
A game must be judged for what it is and what it tries to accomplish and not based on personal preferences for action games.
BUT we're not at a point where we can have full confidence in the game either, we don't know if the story will be interesting enough with a good narrative flow creating the right suspence and even if gameplay won't be innovative and will be significantly scripted it must still be good enough, with gameplay mechanics that are not frustrating but fun to play otherwise even the best graphics and story won't make up for it.
I'm going to buy it because I like what I see, great atmosphere, setting and graphics, nice tps sections with fancy weapons , I think there's room for this kind of games, as a pure adventure fan I like them, not everything needs to be a 40h long open world game with the player deciding which fetch quest to choose next
But at this point I don't know if the game will succeed in what it tries to accomplish either.I guess the review would come atleast 4-5 days earlier as with every Sony Exclusive
Exactly. I agree about the countdown thing as well. Its so stupid to have individual button presses for that. I worry that too much of stuff like this will bring down what is otherwise a very competent shooter. Every cinematic game should look at UC2 and TLOU and see what makes them click and why they are so well regarded if they want to do a cinematic game.
No it does not convey any sense of danger. I know all I need is to press triangle with plenty of time to do so. You know what would convey a bigger sense of danger? If I had to open the vial and take it and slowly regenerate my health while playing hide and seek with the lycan by moving from cover to cover during gameplay. Stuff like press Triangle to recover with a five second window showing Galahad grimacing is not conveying any sense of fear sorry. The game is just explicitly spoon feeding the player at that point and It just makes me yawn.
So much this.
I contacted my PR rep last week and they expect promos in a "few weeks".
Acquiescence
Member
SlasherJPC
Banned
Sounds about a few days before release. Should be enough time to get through it.
BlastKiller
Member
Thanks. Thats cool. Never thought they do something like an app for this.
