Handy Fake
Member
To be fair to Andrea, something he's worked on for years and is very proud of is being given, going by this thread, a very unfair slating in the mainstream media. I can understand if it's pressing a few of his buttons.
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The Order: 1886 |OT| Gears of Yore
- Thread starter Skux
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
My personal perspective on the whole 'removal of control options' during some scenes thing:
I personally quite enjoyed it. But that's also because that is something I do in every game to begin with. I'm the kind of gamer that 'immerses' myself into how a protagonist would act in respective situations.
Eg. whenever a FPS shooter has the character entering a control room/etc, I would purposely slow-walk to make it feel more 'cinematic' like how movies do it instead of rushing towards the objective.
Can see how it frustrates some people though. Traditionally games allow you to have full-control of those situations, even though cinematically it looked cooler if you walked.
I personally quite enjoyed it. But that's also because that is something I do in every game to begin with. I'm the kind of gamer that 'immerses' myself into how a protagonist would act in respective situations.
Eg. whenever a FPS shooter has the character entering a control room/etc, I would purposely slow-walk to make it feel more 'cinematic' like how movies do it instead of rushing towards the objective.
Can see how it frustrates some people though. Traditionally games allow you to have full-control of those situations, even though cinematically it looked cooler if you walked.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm all about this too and tend to really absorb myself into the mood, but that's kind of the point. In my opinion games succeed most, even the most cinematic and scripted, when the illusion of agency is upheld. Even though I have my qualms with the series, Uncharted 2 is exceptionally good at this. Sometimes things are ludicrously scripted but the lines are blurred and do an excellent job of making you feel totally involved in the scenario when maybe you aren't as much as you think.
The Order did this well from time to time, but I feel it faltered pretty badly during others where scripting stripped the player of agency, or even the illusion of agency, and you were clearly just going through the motions. Motions that are ultimately pointless, and obviously so, in a game already so highly reliant on throwing you out of gameplay into cutscenes. And personally this throws me out of the experience, like a weird in between of wanting to be a cutscene, but not really, and wanting to be gameplay, but not really. This strikes me as an inconsistency in presentation and gameplay. It works decently for Telltale games because they're already simple as fuck in game mechanics and frequently shift to similar scenarios, but The Order doesn't. It's heavy cinema one minute, heavy gameplay the next. Then suddenly an irregular in-between that accentuates the strengths of neither.
EDIT: I should also add this is just my subjective viewpoint on how these scenarios are handled best, and could see why others don't mind them at all. The dissonance and broken illusion just throws me. Like, I don't give a shit if your shooter mechanics and encounter design are bare bones and basic if they they still work and operate under a consistent set of rules and balance. And I don't care if you've littered the game with cutscenes that are a major part of the presentation. But when you throw me into a
lycan fight and present as something more complex and robust than it actually is, I see through the act and find myself going through the motions of what it really is
Square Triangle
Member
I was granted another code for The Order, if someone was waiting for a sale on it- I can part ways with it for $40.
Nightengale
Member
Haven't played that far to get an entire game's feel of that yet, but I get what you're saying with the early part of Chapter 3, where despite the game's 'apparent' shift in expected agency (you getting spotted by rebels, have to evade them), it maintains largely the same pace as the early part where you were just walking about.
Obviously a huge redesign would've been necessary, but if that part was instead replaced with a proper stealth level where you'd have to evade rebels looking for you, I think that would've transitioned a lot better into the firefight.
Obviously a huge redesign would've been necessary, but if that part was instead replaced with a proper stealth level where you'd have to evade rebels looking for you, I think that would've transitioned a lot better into the firefight.
Cranberrys
Member
I do the same. I tend to roleplay in a game according to the character I control. For example, in Mass Effect I don't run through the Normandy (except in a crisis situation) because I don't see why a commander of a ship should be running like a madman when nothing justifies it. I doesn't seem logical to me. In The Order I wasn't compelled to run when I was in an exploration phase for the same logical reason.
Mad Season
Banned
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It wasn't exactly given an unfair slating in the media. Read the actual reviews, most of their complaints are perfectly valid. The short length wasn't even the main issue.
Handy Fake
Member
When it's getting 2/10 review scores, I tend to call it "unfair slating".
LookAtMeGo
Member
Especially the parts with the arc gun. You can hit anyone from blind fire with ease.
It wasn't exaggerated. That exact thing happened at the beginning of the game. And stuff like it happens again and again
Cutscene-->"Follow me upstairs"--> go upstairs walk down a short hallway--> cutscene.
It's seriously like the developers didn't want to give you control, but still wanted to avoid the backlash of not giving it to you.
It got one 2/10, the vast vast majority of reviews are at the 6/10 or 7/10 mark, with a few either side of that including some 9/10's and 90% plus scores.
6/10 or 7/10 is a perfectly fair score for this game, depending on taste and tolerance to some the design decisions you could easily push that to 5/10 or 8/10. Funny enough that's why it's got 65 critics score and 6.8 user score on metacritic.
What do you call the fact that it got more scores in the 90s than 20s then?
Are you referencing that one Digital Trends score? Yeah, that would definitely sting.
Still, one opinion in a group of many. Personally, I think that the Metacritic score (65) is about right.
Handy Fake
Member
nelsonroyale
Member
If you check metacritic (yeah, I know) 6.5., the user reviews (6.8) are at least relatively inline, so it doesn't seem like it is outwith the general consensus if you want to go that way. AC: Unity seems to way out of wack, user reviews (4.6) are far lower than what it got in the media (7.0). It got something of a easy run because it is an established series.
Andronicus
Banned
ummm.....ok
Re: any sequel -
if the story continues with Galahad, I wonder how it would be tied back to The Order, since that's the name of the IP and Galahad seems to be entirely divorced from The Order now? Is it possible a sequel would not feature him as a main character? Or is his fate going to be continue to be tied to the Order but from outside of it?
It seems an unusual relationship between the game title and the protagonist. Before playing the game I imagined future games might be in different time periods and not have the same characters or might feature the same characters but once again within The Order, but this seems unlikely now.
It seems to me that Galahad must probably continue outside The Order, while his fate remains entwined with it and that of his former colleagues (or the series continues with different characters, but that seems unlikely). It's quite a refreshing concept, especially with Galahad and The Order likely to continue to be antagonistic towards each other for the foreseeable future. Perhaps a future game might feature Galahad, but as an NPC, or at least not the chief protagonist? It makes me curious just to see even a reveal of a sequel to see the direction they might take.
It seems an unusual relationship between the game title and the protagonist. Before playing the game I imagined future games might be in different time periods and not have the same characters or might feature the same characters but once again within The Order, but this seems unlikely now.
It seems to me that Galahad must probably continue outside The Order, while his fate remains entwined with it and that of his former colleagues (or the series continues with different characters, but that seems unlikely). It's quite a refreshing concept, especially with Galahad and The Order likely to continue to be antagonistic towards each other for the foreseeable future. Perhaps a future game might feature Galahad, but as an NPC, or at least not the chief protagonist? It makes me curious just to see even a reveal of a sequel to see the direction they might take.
loaf of bread
Member
User reviews mean nothing on metacritic. Its just a fanboy battle of 10 vs 0.
just showing a pretty hilarious example of the piss poor design in this game. this kind of stuff is everywhere too.
Yeah I can understand that. He shouldn't let those super low scores get his down, I think they had like 2 scores that were that low? I don't know, I've been playing the game recently and it nowhere near deserves a score that low, the game is completely functional.
Exactly what I've been thinking about since my post last night and playing a bit more. Looking back at the reviews I noticed 2 low scores like that, and I just can't understand them. Like yeah I think the game is only a 7/10 right now (Just finished Chapter 4, kinda excited since I heard the game picks up past Chpater 5 or 6), but the game is functional enough that I don't see how it got a 1 or 2 like that from someone.
Yeh those enemy spawning closest were so noticeable, really ruined my immersion other than the fact the rebels were attacking Westminster somehow?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yes, a lot of the complaints are perfectly valid. I do find it strange that said complaints weighed quite as negatively in most of the reviews. Maybe my taste is so much different to the norm sometimes, but let's face it, in game reviews, 6/10 is not "above average" as it logically may sound it should be. It's more like "borderline crap" if you go and look at the scores given to various games over the years and even lately.
I look at this game as some kind of mixture of a Quantic Dream / Telltale game and a 3rd person shooter. As such, it's one of the better games you could hope for, with some things worse (no story branching), some things better (production values, visuals, tech), and some things different then what's typical from that kind of thing. It could have been much better, no doubt, but all the games of this kind could have been much better too in many ways. They are generally always more than the sum of their parts.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Basically a videogame that's show... "Hey it's a videogame. We have spawn closets."
Really not a big deal, but one of those things people love to showcase as a sort of "I'll show you developers" stance.
That, and the fact that in my years of school if I got below a 70, I failed. That's how the 1-10 scale has been used for games and that's how I've viewed them. Below a 7/10 means a lot of people will avoid the game. It's also why I view the 4/10's and 2/10 The Order received as complete bullshit. Those scores should be reserved for broken games.
It's more noticeable though that a game trying to be so cinematic has sections were enemies just endlessly spawn out of a tiny room, the "push through the rebels" part in Whitechapel was even worse as it actually looked like a clown car gag with them constantly pouring out.
nothing against the developers, the game is just a bad game.
Ready at Dawn are clearly a creative group, so I think that they could have done something with the world that they built to conceal the fact that enemies are spawning, and not just have them run out of a previously empty shed.
Just for example, in Gears of War new holes would open in the ground, and enemies would crawl out. That solution makes sense in that world.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Yeah I get it. Though I never really noticed it and if I hadn't seen this video, I probably wouldn't have. Is it a bit standout when noticed. Def. Does it affect my thoughts on the game overall? Not at all. Other games do this but perhaps in more clever ways and in that respect, yes, Ready at Dawn should find a better way to distrubute or hide their distribution of enemies into the map. The whole idea of them selling a cinematic game doesn't get downgraded just because I see an illusion break.
This really is pretty sad. I get that the scores probably weren't nearly as high as they were expecting, but to post such a one sided review just shows me, that the next Order game might have many of the same flaws, if Andrea stays this received. The metacritic score definitely hits the mark in my opinion. Of course it happens from time to time that many reviews seem to misunderstand a game or judge it very hard, but the user score isn't any better either.
The game has it's strengths without a doubt, but it also has a good amount of flaws, which nobody can deny even if they are reviewing it "for what it was meant to be" (whatever that is supposed to mean).
Reviews are subjective after all. There are qualities that can be judged very objectively like the graphical fidelity or the voice acting. At the same time things like the story or the fun factor are much more subjective.
But the game has flaws that are still there, even when you look at it just like the developers advertised it. For example:
1. The Ending leaves too much open and feels very unsatisfying in my opinion. It doesn't feel like a finished story at all, which a good movie, just for the sake of comparing it, always should.
2. The extremely tight level design kills the replayability and takes out most of the fun of the firefights. It's almost a rail shooter. It's also not very "cinematic" to look at so obviously designed shooter segments with terribly unimaginative cover placed everywhere and frickin red barrels, that explode...red exploding barrels. Nothing pulls me out more of a game that is supposed to be like a movie, than the most obvious, old fashioned exploding red barrels...
3. The lycan fights (not the two elder lycan stages) are so boring and unimaginative, that it feels like a terribly dated game, instead of a cinematic experience. The whole "cinematic experience" the developers strived so hard to achieve vanishes in seconds, when the gameplay suddenly feels so much like a bad battle arena game in which the exact same enemies spawn and use just one single pattern against you.
4. Sometimes the game is just plain boring. GTA for example manages to make long drives through the scenery kind of exciting by having great dialog and character development throughout the ride. Most of the time here you just walk besides another character without much interesting talk at all. It's just not that well written or fun.
I made more points about the game in this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153077921&postcount=3906
The most important thing though is, that the game itself just isn't very fun. It might be interesting, gripping and atmospheric, but it still isn't that fun to play. Now this again is subjective, but I just don't really want to play the game again, which for me is the biggest sign there is. I rewatch good movies all the time. I replay good games all the time.
I always like to play some chapters of Uncharted 2 and 3 or The Last Of Us for example, because the encounters are so much fun and can be played quite a bit different each time. especially in comparison with The Order 1886.
I would still like to see a sequel, but they have to accept the criticism and work on making this a better game.
Parhelion69
Member
Dammit, US/Canada only
White Chapel theme will have to do.
https://theorder.playstation.com/ to get the dynamic theme
I have a US account (but live in South America), but even when I log in with that account I don't get nothing as a reward when viewing everything... Is there a specific way to do it? Or is it because of my IP?
harriet the spy
Member
Just finished it.
Random spoilery thoughts:
Random spoilery thoughts:
I enjoyed the game for what it was (a light TPS+Telltale game), story was somewhat enjoyable, but man did the dialogue suck. I don't think I have ever seen so many clichés per second, especially in the Lakshmi/Grayson and Lucan/Grayson dialogues
"You and I are not so different". I mean they pull out that line twice. Come on, guys
Lakshmi was a great character, btw. For all the hoopla about not having a black character as part of the main team, it's pretty nice there were two major characters who were Indian (who probably rank very very low in relative representation in video games) and positively presented (perhaps with a touch of orientalism) . Too bad they couldn't restrain themselves of making Lakshmi a very very mild love interest.
"You and I are not so different". I mean they pull out that line twice. Come on, guys
Lakshmi was a great character, btw. For all the hoopla about not having a black character as part of the main team, it's pretty nice there were two major characters who were Indian (who probably rank very very low in relative representation in video games) and positively presented (perhaps with a touch of orientalism) . Too bad they couldn't restrain themselves of making Lakshmi a very very mild love interest.
Completely agree. Those hyperbolic scores are a disservice to the respective outlets' readers. Of course opinions and everything, but personal tastes aside, giving this game a score that low is being disingenuous.
Im in chapter 15 right now and having a blast with this game, cant really understand the really low scores the game has, sure its nothing ground breaking and the beggining its a little slow, but after chapter 4 the game really sets up.
Maybe its because im playing on hard with no auto aim, but im loving the battles , real intense with 3 or 4 shots and you re out!
The power of the guns its some of the best ones ive experienced in a game, suck a kick.
Im also captivated by the story, dont know if its the famous "cinematic game" but im liking it, going in for a second turn after finishing.
Maybe its because im playing on hard with no auto aim, but im loving the battles , real intense with 3 or 4 shots and you re out!
The power of the guns its some of the best ones ive experienced in a game, suck a kick.
Im also captivated by the story, dont know if its the famous "cinematic game" but im liking it, going in for a second turn after finishing.
Dedication Through Light
Member
One of the few games Ive played where I actually have reason to switch from just using the standard default gun. I always look for one of those shotguns when an detonator enemy appears or that fast footed shotgun dude too.
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I find myself mostly trying to find those audio recordings they are really informative and help set the mood and time. Though was just confused why they are in 1884-1886 with huge skyscrapers in Philadelphia...and are still calling America the New Continent, unless Im missing some detail?
Darkangel
Member
That's the kind of thing I figured a "filmic" game would try to eliminate.
XxRampage07xX
Member
I have to admit: The gunplay in this game is so good. Really satisfying and intense! But man, this game could have benefited more if it had better advanced AI and opener combat area. Hopefully, RaD will take notes and pay more attention to gameplay aspect in the next game.
And btw, grenade in this game look so sick. I can't stop watching it exploding and tearing enemies apart in slow motion lol. It is so awesome (even though shooting grenade in slow-mo is pretty frustrating)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOFCLgB9u6k
(Look at those gores! )
And btw, grenade in this game look so sick. I can't stop watching it exploding and tearing enemies apart in slow motion lol. It is so awesome (even though shooting grenade in slow-mo is pretty frustrating)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOFCLgB9u6k
(Look at those gores!
)I'm listening to the interview right now and it's pretty interesting. He said RaD wanted to get stage actors to work on the characters rather than just voice actors. He did a great job with Galahad's voice though, I love how gritty he sounded.
timetokill
Banned
Bizarrely, this game stumbles when it tries to make nearly any concession to gameplay. The red barrels clash with their aesthetic, the lycan fights are mind-numbingly stupid, spawn closets, meaningless forced walking sequences just to give the player something to do, etc.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Back after a small leave of absence.
Here is a quick video I tossed together to show some pretty good uses of blacksight as it seems a lot of people didn't use it.
Hard difficulty aim assist off.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205820867938874
During the second section you can actually see the damn concussive shock wave after I shoot the barrel.
Also I was very surprised to see no conversation about
Hopefully we get a few new movement options if they release dlc or in the sequel, making x a dedicated roll or even being able to hold it to power slide while running would have really added a bit to the firefights.
As far as sales are concerned it did well out the gate but we have more copies than I thought we would in our district. Seriously the store I operate out of has about 15 returns as of today.... that's after selling about 10 used so its pretty bad. At this point they would do well to announce some sort of add on story based or multiplayer dlc just to get people to hold onto the damn game.
Here is a quick video I tossed together to show some pretty good uses of blacksight as it seems a lot of people didn't use it.
Hard difficulty aim assist off.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205820867938874
During the second section you can actually see the damn concussive shock wave after I shoot the barrel.
Also I was very surprised to see no conversation about
Lafayette's promotion was that Excalibur?
Also this is the only thing that literally upset me with this game
Looks absolutely amazing and never got to fire it once.
Also this is the only thing that literally upset me with this game
Looks absolutely amazing and never got to fire it once.
Hopefully we get a few new movement options if they release dlc or in the sequel, making x a dedicated roll or even being able to hold it to power slide while running would have really added a bit to the firefights.
As far as sales are concerned it did well out the gate but we have more copies than I thought we would in our district. Seriously the store I operate out of has about 15 returns as of today.... that's after selling about 10 used so its pretty bad. At this point they would do well to announce some sort of add on story based or multiplayer dlc just to get people to hold onto the damn game.
I finished it and well some things were predictable right from the start.
The gameplay mechanics were really medicore. Except the shooting which is somehow satisfying everything else feels so damn half-baked. For example examine objects made absolutely no sense. "Here look at this biscuit barrel. Looks pretty right? Now put it away because it's useless." Lol. Why not extend this mechanic? "Here look at this biscuit barrel. Now open it. Hey a key inside. Maybe I can open the door to the basement that I saw two minutes ago with it. Yes it works. Awesome!"
Some really really strange design choices were made in this game and I can't wrap my head around why. One big missed opportunity is what I'm thinking of The Order as a whole.
Really wonder why RaD didn't chose to use the vampires as counterparts to the half-breeds for example subvert the Order so that the knights fight for them their worst enemy. It doesn't make sense to introduce them so quickly without any important impact to the story. Lycans and vampires fighting on the same side was a big letdown imo. So much potential and all wasted.
Then the thing that Lucan would betray Galahad. This shit was so predictable. I mean lol in the first second I saw him I knew "this sucka is gonna backstabing me for sure" and I was right. No real twist in the plot and no real wtf moment in the whole game.
Then the thing that Lucan would betray Galahad. This shit was so predictable. I mean lol in the first second I saw him I knew "this sucka is gonna backstabing me for sure" and I was right. No real twist in the plot and no real wtf moment in the whole game.
The gameplay mechanics were really medicore. Except the shooting which is somehow satisfying everything else feels so damn half-baked. For example examine objects made absolutely no sense. "Here look at this biscuit barrel. Looks pretty right? Now put it away because it's useless." Lol. Why not extend this mechanic? "Here look at this biscuit barrel. Now open it. Hey a key inside. Maybe I can open the door to the basement that I saw two minutes ago with it. Yes it works. Awesome!"
Some really really strange design choices were made in this game and I can't wrap my head around why. One big missed opportunity is what I'm thinking of The Order as a whole.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Started playing lady night. Completely astonished as to how the in game graphics look just as good as the cut scene stuff. That has got to be available first.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Is that a new game?