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[jim-jam bongs]

And blocked. :/

Never insulted you, not sure why you did to me.

Sucks for you then, cos you won't get to see this awesome GIF

 

[bananafactory]

He can still be likable as a PR person for PlayStation. I love Shu as much as everyone else but when you start seeing a pattern of not so great exclusives it's time to get worried. I liked Knack and I love playing it with my kid, I still play Killzone, I have LBP3 and I LOVE Driveclub, but I'm starting to get worried about the rest of the exclusives. It just can't be a good thing that out of all Sony studios only 2 games will stand out. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

For most of these studios (Guerilla, Evolution, RAD), it was their first PS4 game, or in RAD's case their first console game ever. Keep in mind we did get a couple of great Infamous games.

I'm sure there's growing pains associated with the transition, I'm willing to give each of them another shot before declaring a problem at WWS.

I also honestly don't remember a huge wealth of great 1st party PS3 titles until the Killzone2/Uncharted 2 era began

 

[Captain Tuttle]

While there's room for all kinds of games out there and I agree the review went a bit too far, the one RAD developer's "Ugh... gameplay" attitude sure doesn't help things, either. It's detrimental when a developer looks down on games as a medium.

Story can trump gameplay, Planescape Torment is a perfect example. The gameplay is basically talking to people and some fairly standard combat. But the story and the writing makes the game. The Order has graphics, no one denies that. It's lacking in story AND gameplay apparently. The cutscenes and QTE's don't help

 

[anexanhume]

Wow, TB is a real douche.

His advice is accurate, but for pretty much all the wrong reasons. He's one of the people they should be avoiding, in truth.

 

[meanspartan]

Anyone find it funny IGN had a podcast saying they love the game length a day before embargo only to blast it today?

And that was their first no Colin or Greg episode of Beyond, effectively a reboot of the podcast. It wasn't the worst podcast ever or anything, but it kind of seems like the soul of Beyond is now dead, as this new show just feels like another Podcast Unlocked but for Playstation.


Speaking of, I really like Colin and Greg's discussion of the game. Colin actually didn't hate it, and said he was interested enough to keep playing, but that it is a deeply flawed game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0G42tExvSg&ab_channel=KindaFunnyGames

 

[tuxfool]

Anyone find it funny IGN had a podcast saying they love the game length a day before embargo only to blast it today?

They might like the length. Most reviews had no issues with the length of the game; the issues they had is that the game didn't do anything special during its entire playtime.

Had it been 6 hours of something amazing, then the game would have better reviews.

 

[Jams775]

No offence but TB is in no position to act like a saint considering his past. This tweet was nothing but cringeworthy.

I sure wouldn't want to be one of The Order dev that worked hard on this game for 5 years, only to see all their work getting bashed to hell and beyond within an hour. I genuinely feel sorry for them.

He seems to be right though.

"So our game is extremely focused on the gameplay to the story-telling to pretty much everything," Jan said. "Frequently I'm saying when you play our game you're going to be on a rollercoaster of variety, twists, turns, there's no filler, you're never grinding in our game." - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-order-1886-dev-says-internet-is-the-new-playgr/1100-6425374/

If I was hyped by that then found out reviews are saying it's the opposite of that claim then I'd be upset and letting them know about it too. Of course then you have the people that just like to shit on things. That you can't avoid.

I think TB was just trying to get the jump on the situation before any breakdowns occurred and save some developers from saying things they might regret later. That seems to happen a lot these days with game developers, so good on him for that. It was harsh and a bit rude, but I bet his thinking was that they'd see that post first to get them ready for the idiot posts to follow. Maybe it worked?

 

[jpax]

My agenda? What is this? Is my agenda that people shouldn't become hate mongering machines? Is that such bad thing? Clearly people have issue with it. Considering you're not even ackowledging the storms of hatred spewing.

Your agenda seems to be to twist scepticism and criticism into something bad, which negativity would imply.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I am so torn on whether to actually pick this up at midnight or just shift my down payment to bloodbourne.

At this rate, Bloodborne can also turn out to be shit.

But I doubt it though, it will be filled with gameplay and challenge at least. I think it'll be fine. I'd wait for BB.

 

[Gambit 1138]

Perhaps the developers should have listened to criticisms and feedback instead of ignoring everyone and giving high 5s to Druckman for insulting neogaf members

 

[Servbot24]

I hope he stays off twitter/doesn't talk to the press for a while, TB gave some good advice IMO http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skov0u

I stopped reading after the absurd first 4 lines.

 

[Heartfyre]

I find these reviews difficult to gauge since there's a fair bit of inconsistency on certain points. Some say the narrative is very strong, some say it's weak. Some say the pacing is great (at least up until the finale), and others say it's dreadful. Seems to be a consensus on the gameplay and presentation, though, to both extremes.

 

[Momentary]

Well a 64 in 1990's grade scale means it's above average. I don't see what people are complaining about.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I do feel media was just looking forward to hammering this one, they may even have been drooling.

I kinda feel the same. Well, everyone knew the reviewers were not happy with the demo and there was even that article "Why you shouldn't pre-order The Order" (lol) or something like that a month ago.

 

[Red Comet]

The consensus is about what I expected. I'm really looking forward to playing this someday, but I don't ever see myself paying more than $20 for it.

 

[OsirisBlack]

I do feel media was just looking forward to hammering this one, they may even have been drooling.

I still don't understand why. The game never advertised itself as anything other than what it is, part of me feels it's backlash against traditional game design because people were foolish enough to believe in 'next gen gameplay'.

The 6's and 7's seem about right, some of the comments made though smell of sticking the boot in for the joy of it. Same thing that happened to Ryse really, but with added vitriol.

I really want some good single player story based games, which aren't open world. Not sure I want this one, but the market is definitely there. MP and open world are instant turnoffs for me now.

No arguments there.

You're not the first to suggest this, but you're every bit as wrong as everyone else who suggested it. The success of Walking Dead and TLOU illustrates that the press/media are very open to those types of games. The Borderlands story-driven game just released to much higher acclaim than the traditional shooter Borderlands title.

There are cool kids in every school and you are comparing the outcasts with the cool kids?

 

[Kacho]

I'm sorry but the post below and the ones earlier just give that feeling

He got a well deserved ban for that. I think it's fair to say that most folks in here aren't like that.

 

[allotheabove123]

Looks like it reviewed how I thought it would. A generic, content-lacking, "Cinematic Experience" gets poor reviews... GOOD. Not like I expected much out of RAD anyway. Seriously people, this was their first console game as well as their first new IP. WHY did so many people expect this to be a masterpiece (let alone even good)?

I get that Sony exclusives can be some of the best exclusives, but lets not even joke about RAD being on that level yet. They need time to prove themselves worthy of even a fraction of the hype The Order got.

 

[Freeman]

How much does the game need to sell for it to be realistic to expect a sequel?

 

[BokehKing]

So essentially this is back lash for them calling the Internet bullies?

That's what I get out of the Super low scores

 

[thebloo]

That's your characterization but they also backed it up with reasoning. If they feel strongly about something, then let them express it and explain why they feel so strongly, rather than advocating that they project false moderation.

You're the one setting up the false dichotomy here.

They didn't. The reviewer did, the others just came along for the ride. I give up anyway. I see that demanding any form of respect for journalists is a big no-no, as long as they're bashing the subject of the day.

And I didn't set up any false dichotomy, you did.

 

[Kinthalis]

Wow, TB is a real douche.

Truth hurts.

 

[Ichabod]

I have no pony in this race but I had to get in on the gif action.

 

[Japanmanx3]

8.2 @ GameTrailers? CE preorder redeemed lol.

Kinda s/ but not all s/.

 

[Interfectum]

They focused on making a movie out of a game and forgot to write a good script for it.
That is the worst sin you can really do with it.

I think that's the kicker with this whole thing. Them nailing the story and knocking it out of the park was absolutely critical to sell a game like this to the masses. The fact that even that was a let down pretty much kills the whole project and makes you wonder why they bothered in the first place.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I find half of the people in this thread hard to understand. There's people cheering for this game to fail. But people seem to wish to not acknowledge this.

I always want bad games to fail. If bad games don't fail, it means they're probably succeeding. And if they're succeeding, there is a good chance that it's going to influence other games and possibly make them bad as well. You should want bad games to fail.

I'm not saying people should be jumping up and down the aisles with joy, but I find it hard to get mad at someone for being enthused that a terribly short game with very little to offer in the way of game play is in fact being called out for what it is. That's the last place I want video games to go and if it's a bad game, I want people to be as ruthless to it as possible.

It's a lot better then the alternative, where we all pretend like something isn't bad just so the feelings of the people making it won't get hurt.

 

[davitpr]

For most of these studios (Guerilla, Evolution, RAD), it was their first PS4 game, or in RAD's case their first console game ever. Keep in mind we did get a couple of great Infamous games.

I'm sure there's growing pains associated with the transition, I'm willing to give each of them another shot before declaring a problem at WWS.

I also honestly don't remember a huge wealth of great 1st party PS3 titles until the Killzone2/Uncharted 2 era began

Oh yeah forgot inFamous! I love me some infamous.

Yes I am willing to always give studios another shot.

 

[Scoops]

Well a 64 in 1990's grade scale means it's above average. I don't see what people are complaining about.

 

[shadowfall]

I am still excited about my collectors edition pre-order. Looking forward to playing the game. After playing so many open world games, I want a short and entertaining experience. I have no issues with long custcenes or QTE's. I do not have a platinum yet and it sounds like this game might be easy to get one. I loved Knack (despite the poor reviews) and have a certain tendancy to disagree with most of reviewers. People gave DAO and shadow of mordor goty last year. They were decent games but no where close the Goty. South Park deserved that crown but hey thats why I am not a reviewer

On a side note, suprised to see so hate on a game which I do not even think most of us have even played.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Which Polygon review did you read?

5/5 baby lol

 

[TRI Mike]

if a game says its visually stunning then we shouldn't attack it for gameplay.

I just can't believe I read this...

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Well a 64 in 1990's grade scale means it's above average. I don't see what people are complaining about.

Dat inflation.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

There should be space in the video game business to make products which are targeted to excel in the visual presentation so they can be judged on those merits alone. Why should such visual masterpieces be tied down by expectation of people who do not understand the true goals of the product. I read many fans wanting to pick this game up based on how it looks so is there no rating system that protects the desires of said fans to be able to take pride in their purchases and know they're receiving a top-rated visual experience without it being dirtied by the expectation of people who don't appreciate the goes of presentation the product has set for itself? I don't know man... I just feel for people who are getting bummed out by these reviews and treated like what they want from the product is a mediocre gaming experience when what they want is in fact an excellent visual experience. If a game says its a platformer then we shouldn't attack it for not being a RTS and in the same right, if a game says its visually stunning then we shouldn't attack it for gameplay. People are even recommending not to purchase this game hence victimizing people who pre-ordered it. Its rather insensitive to come out and tell people not to buy something they've put money towards... AFTER THE FACT. No one likes to be judged for their purchasing decisions so this judgmental atmosphere at the very least seems rather anti-consumer. Aren't media supposed to be on the consumer's side? Finally on the idea that the product is too short... a good product should leave you wanting more. Like when people say you've overeaten when you feel bloated and you should stop eating when you feel you are about to get full.. in essence, you should be wanting more before you stop eating; this is the proper way. Overeating will make you obese and there's nothing good about that so why are we trying to promote over-gaming like its something healthy. The Order should be commended for not piling on the fat with unnecessary content, variety, game length and extra modes and collectable. It cares about the consumer's gaming health. Judged based on its visual fidelity and respect for consumer health, I'd give the order a 9.7 out of 10 but Metacritic won't carry my review on the "reviewer" section so I'll leave it here and I ask journalist to be kinder with their review. We need more products like the order. Dare I say it... I'd like to The Order another one of these!

It's a testament to the artistic nature of this product. It's fresh and provocative and has the attention of people and is able to drive much discourse where people have plenty of interesting and varied perspectives on the matter. It's further proof of excellence in my opinion. My only regret is that people do not realize they are also apart of the performance piece hence fail to judge themselves as part of the work. I would never give myself a 4/10... I love myself too much to be that derisive to me as a work of art and I respect all the people who helped move me forward in live to where I am today. I honestly believe that instead of such nihilistic perspective on the product but taking a more holistic perspective would allow people to see themselves in this product and perhaps yield much different opinions ad assessments.

Ultimately art speaks to each differently but we have to be willing to listing and since will as an internal process, I have no choice but to respect everyone's perspective on the product even if I strongly feel otherwise.

You still can. I believe the product deliver an all the visual they showed in early preview videos. It looks great.

Now I'm not saying you're a viral marketer/astro-turfer, but that's how your posts are coming across.

Might want to look into that...

 

[Kinthalis]

One question I have about The Order is - did RAD make the game they wanted to make?

Or did they have to hobble or significantly compromise their vision to get it out the door?

Didn't they take like 5 years ot make this game?

I mean common. Epic, sprawling 80 hour RPG's with combat set pieces and twisting narratives that take your actions into account have been made in less time.

 

[ZSeba]

His advice is accurate, but for pretty much all the wrong reasons. He's one of the people they should be avoiding, in truth.

Yeaah, he words his tweets implying people can't possibly like cinematic games like The Order.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I think the most damning thing is that it took 5 years of development.

Now either there was a lot of internal development issues or the people in charge (Sony) were negligent and let RAD 'realise their vision' completely unabated.

I applaud the risk taken, because releasing a single-player only game that can be beaten in an evening is utterly insane.

 

[Roussow]

If I remember corrrectly press reactions to this game were pretty mixed starting from the first time it was shown, can't say the low scores are any suprise at all. What a shame to see the engine wasted on a short, mediocre 3rd person shooter.

Just imagine Dishonored with Order 1886's engine instead. Drool *-*

I really doubt that Dishonored's stylized art design would mesh with the hyper-realism of The Order. And if it meant a highly vertical game like Dishonored had to have black bars, then forget about it.

 

[monreader]

What I don't get is why someone from Sony or Sony Santa Monica did not step in earlier. There has been bad impression of this game from the very start, so why did someone not step in and try change it? Surely they should have known that the game was not getting well recieved from what they had shown us.

 

[DirtyLarry]

Yeah, second-party is a fair way to describe this.

It is an exclusive. Sony paid for the rights to have it on their system.
1st party would mean it is a Sony owned developer, which RAD is not.
The reason it is easy to believe they are 1st party is they have primarily only made games for Sony's system.
However they are technically their own studio, so the game is technically a system exclusive.

As pointed out, that does almost = 1st party these days, but I like arguing semantics I suppose.

 

[EventHorizon]

Anyone find it funny IGN had a podcast saying they love the game length a day before embargo only to blast it today?

Interesting. It could be like some partisan political polling. They try to push a narrative early on but when it really counts near the election they have to move back towards reality in order to maintain credibility.

 

[abadguy]

They focused on making a movie out of a game and forgot to write a good script for it.
That is the worst sin you can really do with it. Heavy Rain at least had a good script.

Is it? I think if there were great gameplay here people could have looked past a "bad script". This is what happens when game developers forget which medium they are working in.

 

[Lady Gaia]

With that said, it's clear many of these reviewers lament how the game plays or its lack of interactivity (or so they say). Therefore, consider the following example:

On a scale from 1 - 10

Gameplay (40%): 6 (or 16/40)
Visuals (20%): 10 (or 10/10)
Sound (15%): 8 (or 12/15)
Story (15%): 5 (or 7.5/15)

Final Score: 45.5

Using an adjusted version of the above example to match my own criteria, it would look something like this:

On a scale from 1 - 10

Gameplay (25%): 6 (or 15/25)
Visuals (20%): 10 (or 20/20)
Sound (30%): 8 (or 24/30)
Story (25%): 5 (or 12.5/25)

Final Score: 71.5

I don't disagree with the point you were trying to make, but your first example is pretty messed up. The percentage weighting only adds up to 90 rather than 100 and your weighted visuals score is half what the weighting suggests it should be. So it's really 55.5/90 or 61.6%. Suddenly the score difference looks less dramatic.

 

[HMD]

RAD is still independent isn't it? So why is everyone worried that they're shutting down? it's just one "bad" game.

 

[Deadpool_X]

Wait, if you've played it, can you tell us why you think it deserves that much lower of a score?

Come on, now. I mean, the guy has a bit of a point. Look at the metacritic page for the game. Here you go. It currently sits at a Metacritic score of 65. However, thst number is being vastly inflated by fansites and bloggers, not the sites commonly trusted when it comes to reviews. For as much as some people want to talk about websites having bias against Sony exclusives, they don't want to dismiss Sony fansites that have given the game top-marks.

Ultimately, what you think of the game is up to you, but if metacritic went based on professional sites only, and not fansites, the score would be significantly lower.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

The game reviewers posting shit about the game on social media are pretty bad. It is like every once in a while they think it is acceptable to all dog pile on a game if everyone is in agreement. Then it back to overhyping the next game so they can get more clicks.

Just review the game, we don't need the snarky twitter posts. I have gaf for that.

 

[Ethelwulf]

I have no pony in this race but I had to get in on the gif action.

Motha fucka... fuck the fucking goat and my new band is called swiss kill... awwww!

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I think that's the kicker with this whole thing. Them nailing the story and knocking it out of the park was absolutely critical to sell a game like this to the masses. The fact that even that was a let down pretty much kills the whole project and makes you wonder why they bothered in the first place.

This is where the comparisons with Telltale fall flat for me, they live or die on their story because they are essentially VNs. By most accounts even the story for The Order is pretty poor, so it's not really comparable.

 

[Sid]

For most of these studios (Guerilla, Evolution, RAD), it was their first PS4 game, or in RAD's case their first console game ever. Keep in mind we did get a couple of great Infamous games.

I'm sure there's growing pains associated with the transition, I'm willing to give each of them another shot before declaring a problem at WWS.

I also honestly don't remember a huge wealth of great 1st party PS3 titles until the Killzone2/Uncharted 2 era began

Resistance,Uncharted and Ratchet were all great and came out within the first year of the PS3

 

[Interfectum]

RAD is still independent isn't it? So why is everyone worried that they're shutting down? it's just one "bad" game.

In the world of AAA game development one bad game can sink an entire studio.

 

[Lingitiz]

How much does the game need to sell for it to be realistic to expect a sequel?

A good amount. 120 staff with contractors is a lot for an exclusive game. And that 5 year dev cycle can't be cheap.