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[bananafactory]

Killzone and Infamous on PS4 weren't great either,Uncharted 1 still shits all over the first party PS4 exclusives released so far

I happen to think Infamous: Second Son is a significantly better game than Uncharted 1.

Opinions, right?

This argument is pointless. Infamous was critically and commercially well received, it's not a failure.

 

[Hamlet]

Hmm not the best reviews. I'll probably still pick it up eventually when it's a bit cheaper.

Fantastic

 

[Jawbreaker]

8.2 @ GameTrailers? CE preorder redeemed lol.

Kinda s/ but not all s/.

I mean, if you generally agree with that particular reviewer, it would make sense for you to put more weight in it than one from a reviewer with opinions that don't tend to align with yours. I thought Bloodworth's review of Driveclub for example was spot-on, while other publications didn't mesh with my opinions as much. I feel like his review of The Order will closely match my feelings based on my personal preferences.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Ultimately, what you think of the game is up to you, but if metacritic went based on professional sites only, and not fansites, the score would be significantly lower.

As far as I remember metacritic's score is already heavily weighted.
There was a study once that claimed to have figured out that the score of some review outlets had a 1.5x multiplier weight(all IGN sites had this) and others had a weight of 0.25x (Giant Bomb had 0.5x). Somebody found out that the study had their numbers wrong, but metacritic definitely adds a weight to scores.

 

[Korten]

Scepticism is a really good base for criticism and changing scepticism to negativity gives you bias which is not a good base for a critique.
Negativity is "I hope this game tanks!"
Scepticism is "from what I have seen and read of this game I am sure it will tank."
Actually most of what I have seen was the scepticism approach.

Then your ignoring, because most of it hasn't been scepticism. Whose the one with the agenda?

 

[MegaSackman]

Except neither of those games were announced when everyone was excitedly looking to the next generation to provide 'next gen gameplay experiences' which were never going to happen.

I'm not talking about the mediocre reviews, I'm talking about posting a picture of a comfy chair and claiming it's a TO controller, and scores which would be more appropriate for bug ridden Ubisoft games.

Which are also boring, bad written and last gen but hey! lots of content!

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I find half of the people in this thread hard to understand. There's people cheering for this game to fail. But people seem to wish to not acknowledge this..

No smart person is actively wishing the game failed. However, some of us are at least happy to see that certain...not-so-glamorous....aspects of single-player AAA "cinematic" games that began cropping up in the tailend of the PS2 era are being put on blast by a good deal of reviewers. Unfortunately, The Order seems to be the game that embodies those traits and is the current one under the spotlight.

The game being linear is not a problem. Many of the best games of all time are linear. The game being single-player is not a problem. Many of the best games of all time are single-player. It being story-driven is not a problem, for many of the best are also story-driven. It lacking MP is not a problem; I don't see people using that against classics like Super Metroid or Resident Evil. And even it being short is not a problem because personally most of my favorite games (such as a good deal of arcade games) are pretty damn short.

However, there is a problem with The Order. When literally half your game is cutscenes and a good chunk of the actual interactive content are QTEs, and the game's length is completely independent of the player's skill in learning the game's level designs/mission structures, enemy patterns, best routes, skill-related shortcuts, item placement/layout and manipulation of the game mechanics in varied scenarios so as to cut down their completion time in direct relation to increase in skill level...that IS a problem, and is something the worst games of any type exemplify. The Order is a AAA cinematic 3rd-person TPS, but it takes some of the worst aspects of game design and then goes further to take some of the worst aspects of AAA cinematic game design in making half the damn game a film. This is where people such as myself can no longer really come to the game's defense, and have to accept the reality for what it is.

It's a very pretty game; depending on your tastes, the best-looking game out right now on any platform. Unfortunately it just seems to fail in being a game that plays to the real strengths of the medium.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

You think in your head... "there's no way this thread is gonna live up to the hype, it won't deliver, it can't". But it did. It really did. There's nothing like a Sony exclusive review thread.

E: and im only up to page 67 (50 posts per page peasant)

 

[protomouse]

ThatsDamnGood.gif

 

[jacobeid]

This is so good lol.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

As far as I remember metacritic's score is already heavily weighted.
There was a study once that claimed to have figured out that the score of some review outlets had a 1.5x multiplier weight(all IGN sites had this) and others had a weight of 0.25x (Giant Bomb had 0.5x). Somebody found out that the study had their numbers wrong, but metacritic definitely adds a weight to scores.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/189448/Full_Sail_study_attempts_to_shed_light_on_Metacritics_weighting_system.php

 

[DarkLordMalik]

? The tweet had some very good advice.

Unfortunately no matter of his "past" the tweet is 100% correct. So what made you cringe?

People with sordid pasts are often in the best position to tell you how to handle something based on their past experiences.

Read the tweet and tell me when did the dev lie? He says "You can't lie to people on the internet, they will never forget it." So what lie is he talking about here?

Here is what Ru Weerasuriya posted on the official PS Blog when The Order was revealed.

Beyond story and setting, there are a select few key concepts to which we wanted to adhere when we created this title. One of these is the filmic aspect of the game. As we developed our visual target, we used aesthetics that have been present in cinematography for decades to achieve our goal; from lenses and lighting techniques to grading, we wanted to recreate a visual feel that would bring you closer to what you have only been able to experience in movies.

We also strived to create a seamless experience when it came to the game. The idea was to make sure that you never saw any visual discrepancies or breaks in continuity between gameplay and cinematic. Our game models and our cinematic models are one and the same, and everything is rendered real time in the engine as you play the game. The trailer we presented is a great example of that. What you saw is running in-engine, in-game with no gimmicks. These visuals are what you can expect of the final game when you play it.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/06/10/the-order-1886-brings-victorian-era-to-playstation-4/

They totally delivered on it. The game is seamless. It is just mind boggling how the transition takes place. There is no LOD and the character models are the same, whether in gameplay or in cutscenes. This makes for a great seamless experience.

Then he goes on to say that the dev prioritized "graphical fidelity" over res/fps because of "limited hardware". What even made him come to this conclusion at all? Did he not realize that the developers original vision was for this game to be a cinematic shooter, and I honestly doubt it has anything to do with hardware. See TEW for example.

Also this quote "You were thrown out there as a sacrificial lamb to deflect criticism from Sony themselves and you suffered the consequences." What does this even mean?

There is so much BS in that tweet. I don't want to waste my time explaining it all. He is correct in this that people have limited time. But if he finds the game mediocre, not eveyone will. Like for me, I am enjoying the game so far and I am upto chapter 4 so far. I get about 2-3 hours of free time each day so I honestly don't have time for 15-20 hours game. The length is good enough for me. But this is my opinion and each one will have their own.

Also does he honestly expect the devs to not hype up their game? They will have to hype up their game to sell it and it is not like they were making it sound like a great game. If you were sold on their hype expecting a completely different type of game, even though devs clearly outlined what it will be, it is up to you alone.

 

[Freeman]

A good amount. 120 staff with contractors is a lot for an exclusive game. And that 5 year dev cycle can't be cheap.

They started much smaller than 120 since they were moving from PSP and now they already have a very good engine running and the IP.

 

[antitrop]

Fuse was not that expensive, i guess.
And their pedigree is big.

EA paid for FUSE.

Insomniac doesn't self-publish their games.

 

[Xpliskin]

You think in your head... "there's no way this thread is gonna live up to the hype, it won't deliver, it can't". But it did. It really did. There's nothing like a Sony exclusive review thread.

Right ? Sony threads are always entertaining.

 

[Withnail]

It is an exclusive. Sony paid for the rights to have it on their system.
1st party would mean it is a Sony owned developer, which RAD is not.
The reason it is easy to believe they are 1st party is they have primarily only made games for Sony's system.
However they are technically their own studio, so the game is technically a system exclusive.

As pointed out, that does almost = 1st party these days, but I like arguing semantics I suppose.

It's first party - Sony funded the development and owns the game. It doesn't matter who owns the studio.

 

[KooopaKid]

For everyone acting like this is a developer funeral

Mistakes happen. Studios recover. Life goes on.

Sunset Overdrive didn't exactly set the charts on fire. I will not be surprised to learn Insomniac is laying off staff soon.

 

[orochi91]

Good point.

I just don't know what to make of this whole thing. With all that early criticism and noise and the end product isn't even fully self contained, realized or meaty. I just don't get how that happens.

A chunk of that time was probably dedicated to building that engine.

All things considered, the engine is fantastic given the visuals :3

 

[Servbot24]

This might be the right time for Sony to buy RAD (assuming their value is now lowered) and be more controlling of the direction their next game takes.

 

[Valentus]

How much does the game need to sell for it to be realistic to expect a sequel?

David Cage still gets free monies from sony selling 1-2m copies ww of his games.

But, i dont know how much were The Order's develepment costs, but with 2-3m this game could get greenlight for a sequel.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

When you spent over 5 years developing it, pouring a lot of money into it. There's going to be repercussions if they can't make back all of the money they just lost.

Then they made bad business decisions. And I don't think their bad management should factor into peoples criticisms of the final product. They should have either not put all of their eggs in one basket, or made a better product by the end of that five year development cycle.

They made a mediocre game, and if their business goes under because they felt like they needed to make the game they made, then that was their bad gamble. People shouldn't hold back criticisms because the people that made the game didn't do a good job. If we were to do that, we literally wouldn't criticize anything.

 

[hipbabboom]

Now I'm not saying you're a viral marketer/astro-turfer, but that's how your posts are coming across.

Might want to look into that...

I felt a lot of negative energy around the product and I just wanted to offer a different perspective to bring more positivity into the discussion rather than having the conversation develop a momentum in one direction what would cause people who wanted to express other non-conformist opinion to fear being steam rolled. I kind of stopped posting for a bit after the AC post because I was beginning to worry some people posting me were doing it out of support which hurt a little but I assure you, I'm no marketer. I'm just a GAFfer like you who sometimes has something to say.

BTW, people say I've been too negative in the past so I try to put in the effort to be positive as much as possible whenever I can... especially when its really challenging to do so.

 

[Exile20]

RAD is still independent isn't it? So why is everyone worried that they're shutting down? it's just one "bad" game.

Think about it. 5 years including salary, hardware, software, marketing, etc. There was a delay so that means thier expense was more then expected. Making a game with these kinds of graphics is far more expensive than making a game with unique and interesting gameplay.

Even if this doesnt sink them, I really hope not, it will sting hard for sure.

 

[HMD]

Honestly I think the game's budget was just too big for its own good, if it had been a lower budget "cinematic" game, a $25 PSN game maybe, they would've found a much more receptive audience, the game is just an overly polished PSN game, a good game imo, but way too overpriced.

 

[GeoramA]

Not surprised at these reviews. A new IP that doesn't follow the typical gaming trends gets harsh reviews...

I just hope all the excrement I've been reading doesn't push RAD out of game development.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/189448/Full_Sail_study_attempts_to_shed_light_on_Metacritics_weighting_system.php

Interesting, so it seems certain reviews are considered more important than others. It's one thing to view that subjectively, but to literally objectify it is bizarre.

That defeats the purpose of the idea review aggregates are meant to be impartial and non-biased averages of otherwise biased review scores. Why add further bias by weighing them, that is dumb.

 

[Servbot24]

How much does the game need to sell for it to be realistic to expect a sequel?

I'd guess at least 3mil. Order 2 will have to overcome the negative impressions people now have of the series.

Not surprised at these reviews. A new IP that doesn't follow the typical gaming trends gets harsh reviews...

I just hope all the excrement I've been reading doesn't push RAD out of game development.

Maybe it's just not that great of a game. It happens.

 

[darkwing]

David Cage still gets free monies from sony selling 1-2m copies ww of his games.

But, i dont know how much were The Order's develepment costs, but with 2-3m this game could get greenlight for a sequel.

I don't think this would sell 2M, despite what Pachter said

 

[Floridian]

I felt a lot of negative energy around the product and I just wanted to offer a different perspective to bring more positivity into the discussion rather than having the conversation develop a momentum in one direction what would cause people who wanted to express other non-conformist opinion to fear being steam rolled. I kind of stopped posting for a bit after the AC post because I was beginning to worry some people posting me were doing it out of support which hurt a little but I assure you, I'm no marketer. I'm just a GAFfer like you who sometimes has something to say.

BTW, people say I've been too negative in the past so I try to put in the effort to be positive as much as possible whenever I can... especially when its really challenging to do so.

Positive Polly representative.

 

[jpax]

Then your ignoring, because most of it hasn't been scepticism. Whose the one with the agenda?

This is your last man's straw? Instead of saying you experienced it differently?

 

[RisesRises]

EA paid for FUSE.

Insomniac doesn't self-publish their games.

Just as Sony did for The Order... ?

 

[npa189]

Just looking at these for the first time, ouch. I was excited for this game, but Jesus. Glad I didn't pre-order, Will buy on a $5 sale though.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Well a 64 in 1990's grade scale means it's above average. I don't see what people are complaining about.

Wat? In which universe? 64 was bad (for a video game) 20 years ago and it still is.

It sucks that this game is just another shooter...now with more shiny graphics. You can get away with such an game when you are a launch titel but 1 1/2 years after that, you should be filled with new and interesting gameplay elements.

 

[Deadpool_X]

As far as I remember metacritic's score is already heavily weighted.
There was a study once that claimed to have figured out that the score of some review outlets had a 1.5x multiplier weight(all IGN sites had this) and others had a weight of 0.25x (Giant Bomb had 0.5x). Somebody found out that the study had their numbers wrong, but metacritic definitely adds a weight to scores.

No kidding? I had no idea. Well, that's good to know. Thanks for sharing it. Proof right here that you can learn something new everyday.

 

[Psychoward]

Not surprised at these reviews. A new IP that doesn't follow the typical gaming trends gets harsh reviews...

I just hope all the excrement I've been reading doesn't push RAD out of game development.

Is the trend trying to push 5 hour mediocre games, half of which are unskippable cinematics, a new trend? Because if so I'll take the typical, thanks.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

When literally half your game is cutscenes and a good chunk of the actual interactive content are QTEs, and the game's length is completely independent of the player's skill in learning the game's level designs/mission structures, enemy patterns, best routes, skill-related shortcuts [...]

remember Asura's Wrath though? These games can be great and there should be a place for them... maybe it just shouldn't be where you need to sell millions at a 60$ price tag to make it profitable.

 

[BitStyle]

Always showing up to deliver. lol'd at the YouTube watcher

 

[Alienous]

For everyone acting like this is a developer funeral

Mistakes happen. Studios recover. Life goes on.

This brings up a good point.

Sony probably have dibs on Ready at Dawn's next game. But if they don't go for it Microsoft absolutely will. And RAD will bring over their fancy new engine (didn't Sony Santa Monica help out with that?).

So, Sony really doesn't have much of a choice. They can't risk RAD's Uncharted 2 going to Xbox One.

 

[QaaQer]

Because in the gaming community, scepticism has become synonymous with negativity. I'm honestly become baffled that people are even confused by this.

People have made lists of games that have gotten pre-release hate. No, not pre-release scepticism. No, pre-release hate. But keep believing that this apparently isn't a thing.

Stay up on that high horse.

Can you imagine what this place would be like without mods?

 

[FF Seraphim]

I'd guess at least 3mil. Order 2 will have to overcome the negative impressions people now have of the series.

People are saying the same for Destiny but people are eating up those expansion packs and I will not be surprised if Destiny 2 sells like pancakes soaked in cocaine honey.

 

[RoboPlato]

Sunset Overdrive didn't exactly set the charts on fire. I will not be surprised to learn Insomniac is laying off staff soon.

I think every game Insomniac has made since Resistance 2 has bombed sales wise.

 

[arevin01]

Does Sony want to risk pushing out a sequel knowing its not well received? RAD has created the game engine and everything, it would be a waste to just let it die.

 

[NullPointer]

Not surprised at these reviews. A new IP that doesn't follow the typical gaming trends gets harsh reviews...

That seems like an unfair take on the reviews which also call the game out for failing on its own terms, and by that I mean in terms of it's (incomplete) story and what mechanics there are in the game like the shooting, cover system, melee and stealth.

There are critically loved games that try something new and different - The Order doesn't seem to be one of them, outside of the stellar visuals.

 

[QaaQer]

One question I have about The Order is - did RAD make the game they wanted to make?

Or did they have to hobble or significantly compromise their vision to get it out the door?

I'd love to know this too. I wonder if it is like Destiny, and had the guts ripped out because of mock reviews and play testing.

 

[meanspartan]

OT complaining about lack of "professionalism" from reviewers.

I dunno, while I guess some of the mocking in tweets may cross the line a bit, I far FAR prefer that over just handing out a minimum of 8s for being a AAA game.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

He seems to be right though.



If I was hyped by that then found out reviews are saying it's the opposite of that claim then I'd be upset and letting them know about it too. Of course then you have the people that just like to shit on things. That you can't avoid.

I think TB was just trying to get the jump on the situation before any breakdowns occurred and save some developers from saying things they might regret later. That seems to happen a lot these days with game developers, so good on him for that. It was harsh and a bit rude, but I bet his thinking was that they'd see that post first to get them ready for the idiot posts to follow. Maybe it worked?

Alright, I had no idea about this interview. I thought the developers were pretty straight forward with what they were trying to accomplish with the game and all. Even their demos/presentations showed the cinematic focused gameplay (E3 Lycan fight, Gamescom demo, PSX demo etc) so it is definitely not a good thing to see them hyping up their game like Molyneux.

 

[Duxxy3]

Trying to think of what other series RaD could pick up if The Order is dumped. Resistance? Heavenly Sword? Jak and Daxter?

 

[TylerDurden4321]

No kidding? I had no idea. Well, that's good to know. Thanks for sharing it. Proof right here that you can learn something new everyday.

Here is the original Gamasutra story on the metacritic study for you (but as I said, someone proofed the numbers to be wrong).

Edit: SORRY... somebody was WAY earlier. Overseen it.

 

[maverick40]

Has anyone from RAD said anything on social network since the reviews dropped??

 

[TRI Mike]

What exactly is a AAA game¿ During my long life as a gamer, I've considered "AAA" titles that gain a general positive opinion both on media and the public and also sell a lot of copies on their respective platform. To me, notable AAAs are Persona 4, Halo 3, Uncharted 2, Street Fighter IV or Brawl. But I've noticed a trend that started in the HD gen (past gen) where games are considered AAA only because they're first-party.

The Order 1886 has been considered a AAA title ever since it was first announced and we didn't know anything about it. And even now we have no idea if it's gonna sell well, it's not even out until tomorrow and reviews are average at best. Why are people calling it a AAA then¿