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The Order 1886 Review Thread
- Thread starter The Sarcastic Dude
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Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's a lol worthy accusation.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The "if you are not an X then you can't criticize X" is a stupid thing, and it has always been.
"You can't criticize that movie because you are not a movie maker."
"You can't criticize that restaurant because you are not a chef."
"You can't criticize that music because you are not a musician."
"You can't criticize that car because you are not a car maker."
"You can't criticize that book because you are not a novelist."
etc etc.
It's stupid.
Vroadstar
Member
Having a valid opinion is one thing, but opining on a game's game design because you watched it on YT compared to people who actually played and enjoyed it -QTE's and all - is much more valid would you say?
A fantastic rebuttal to my comment. The other person attacking myself and anyone disagreeing with them does not deserve a response.
I completely agree with you and there is no way you can get 'the exact same' experience watching a game compared to playing it. However I do feel that in many cases you can get quite a good idea of what a game is like by watching it.
It's obvious RAD has talent when it comes to game design based on their PSP games. I don't understand what happened here, they went off the rails trying to make a movie-game thing. Put way too much emphasis on visuals and seemingly forgot to include compelling gameplay scenarios. If you look at something like TLOU, ND got it right, fantastic cinematic and storytelling with tons of great gameplay. That's how you do cinematic big budget games.
Although I will say in this game the cutscenes add so much to the game I wouldn't want to skip them anyway. The option would be nice though...
In this specific instance regarding QTE's, no I don't think that. You are welcome to disagree
Vroadstar
Member
Oh seems you missed another thing
"You can't criticize a game because you haven't played it"
How's that for stupid?
Oh my God you're digging in your heels and actually defending that idiotic argument.
No, one does not have to be a good game designer to recognize good game design.
Maybe if you had actually said that, people wouldn't be jumping down your throat.
I didn't say that, I'm not defending The Order don't get me wrong. Just saying I find the whole "I'll watch the whole thing on Youtube rather than play it" thing ridiculous.
Neuromancer
Member
I would say so. I plan on replaying it at least once or twice more. Also I want to show it to my dad next time he comes to visit, he's a sucker for amazing looking spectacles.
I said I wouldn't comment but here I am. Glutton for punishment.
But you're making wild accusations people haven't played it. At this point I think you should just accept not everyone shares your opinion about their consumption of games. And move on.
Me too actually. You can see the love they have poured into the game. Any developer who works as hard as they have deserve to be paid for what they have produced.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
You said/implied that one can't comment on a "good game design" if one is not a "game designer" or "an expert" or some sort of rubbish.
Now that was stupid.
Conkerkid11
Member
That's how I would summarize Alien: Isolation after having bought and played it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Vroadstar
Member
The point is, the poster I'm responding to is talking about good game design based on watching YT video, I think it's much more valid if you actually played it then talk about good game design wouldn't it?
No problem about people jumping on my throat, I'm a member of The Order defense force apparently : )
Don't say that, I got it today! Although £15 bargain
Conkerkid11
Member
I can understand why most people like the game, but I didn't, and that poster summarized how I felt about it perfectly. After having enjoyed Amnesia and A Machine for Pigs so much, I was really disappointed.
Played on whatever the hardest difficulty was the night it launched, and while I really loved the overall atmosphere and how well they captured the older movies, the actual gameplay is terrible. Which is what the poster who I said summarized my opinions of the game perfectly mentioned.
I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion about Alien Isolation though.
Sorry.
Good post, esp about reviewers being a fairly homogeneous group with no specialities. Like you said, it is in part why big budget games are so samey.
I was thinking about Sim cit and how none of the initial day one reviews talked about how broken the simulation was. Why? Because a player could play 10 or 20 hours, get tonnes of positive feedback, and have a City that looked like it was working. There were no negative consequences for being bad. This, of course, was not what Sim players wanted. Did they build the game just to get good reviews? I really don't know.
MMaRsu
Member
Guess you played on easy in daylight or something and have no love for the Alien movie.
The point remains that you were blunt about your opinions on the game prior to release after watching youtube videos yet you still purchased it. Why? If you were so convinced it was a terrible game why would you waste your money on it? Seems to me you went in with a very negative impression and actively looked for any and everything that would suit such an outlook on the game.
The comparison with your impressions of ACU is apt because you went in with a very positive outlook and as a result completely dismissed the egregious technical issues the game presented upon release. Your impressions seem heavily influenced by your prerelease positive/negative bias. In short you see what you want to see and seemingly ignore everything else.
But this is all besides the point, the main problem with your prior statement is not that it is negative but that it is said with absolute authority as though it is not your opinion but fact. It's clearly your opinion. Surely your opinion is as valid as others who have played the game but it is most certainly not factual.
edit: just saw your response post will respond after I have time to delve into it
In many forms of professional competition, judging committees have to regularly recalibrate their scores in order to ensure judges are awarding scores properly, and prevent "score creep".
If TLoU is a 9/10, what happens if we get a better game? It gets 9.1/10, easy, right? So you get better and better games which get 9.5 and eventually 10, but where do you go from there? 11 out of 10? No, you have to rebalance the scores to make them make sense.
Review score inflation has been an insidious problem for all of last gen and a shakeup like this, as well as with more publications dropping them altogether, was long overdue. I'm glad reviewers have had the sense to take into account reader feedback, take a good hard look at their scoring policy, and start giving us scores that better reflect public opinion. It's a shame The Order had to be the fall guy for it though, because I think it's actually a pretty good game.
If TLoU is a 9/10, what happens if we get a better game? It gets 9.1/10, easy, right? So you get better and better games which get 9.5 and eventually 10, but where do you go from there? 11 out of 10? No, you have to rebalance the scores to make them make sense.
Review score inflation has been an insidious problem for all of last gen and a shakeup like this, as well as with more publications dropping them altogether, was long overdue. I'm glad reviewers have had the sense to take into account reader feedback, take a good hard look at their scoring policy, and start giving us scores that better reflect public opinion. It's a shame The Order had to be the fall guy for it though, because I think it's actually a pretty good game.
Conkerkid11
Member
All of that is assuming that games are getting better just because the platforms are becoming more powerful and the budgets are vastly increasing.
Just because Ocarina of Time has a 99 on Metacritic doesn't mean that anything in the current generation scoring beneath that would have been received with higher ratings if it had released way back when.
James Scott
Banned
I've seen quite a few people mention this...but I don't think reviewers all someone agreed that they will fix their scoring method starting with The Order.
I do agree that the scoring system isn't great though.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
In all fairness, as someone who still owns the game (for one more day) all his complaints are completely valid.
Vroadstar
Member
You know what's stupid, jumping on a discussion about good game design when one actually haven't played it. I guess you played The Order to have a good grasp about it's game design as well?
How's that rubbish? armchair game designers opining about a game design based on watching YT videos. Make sense right?
It feels like reviewers were waiting for a "bad" AAA game, and we haven't yet had one that you could outright say is bad, until now. Watch Dogs might have been disappointing relative to the hype, but the gameplay was there and it was competent.
But The Order has a laundry list of features that gamers love to label as "bad" - QTEs, unskippable cutscenes, lots of talk about a "cinematic experience", gameplay mechanics that aren't innovative, short play time with little replay value, etc. I feel like reviewers could finally feel safe about criticising a game because they knew the public would agree with them.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
MGS4 and GT5 were both sensational games.
Yes, they had shortcomings, but so do all AAA games.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I didn't dismiss the technical issues of ACU, multiple times of the forum I specified that I feel for those who experienced them but hadn't experienced them myself. Secondly, I wasn't convinced that it was a terrible game, 65/100 isn't terrible, it's above average and for a triple A exclusive, a premise which I was hoping would hold up, I go into every game with an open mind ,especially those that I purchase, even if I get in on the joking part of the review thread. I was admittedly excited for the release of ACU, because it was the first next gen iteration of my favorite series, doesn't mean that I didn't notice any flaws, like the really half baked cover system.
schwabdizzle
Banned
So I finished the game a few hours ago and here are some of my thoughts. Also, I play games on default difficulty always. The first two chapters of the game are very slow. I was actually turned off by that. Once you get to chapter 3 that pacing picks up. The third person shooter mechanics are nothing new but I enjoyed all of Teslas weapons. I am not offended by quick time events so none of those bothered me at all. I actually dont understand why people get so pissed about them. Graphically this game sets a new bar but I figured we all already knew that. The story was predictable and fell apart towards the end so thats that. Overall I would give the game a 7/10. I really think there is a solid foundation with a lot to improve upon. I really love the time period and aesthetic of the game.(wrote this from my phone)
WordsintheWater
Member
Can't we all just agree to disagree. Some love it, some like it, some hate it, some despise it, some are meh on it. Another day, another game.
Vroadstar
Member
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
This is clearly addressed during the game. It is tesla's call when to explain to Greyson and he simply has yet to do that. That is far from a "plot thread" as it is fairly obvious what has happened
Tesla has decided to aid Lakshmi for the same reason he aids the knights to fight the halfbreeds but he knows that there is a double agent within the order so he can't risk revealing his involvment with the rebels or their true cause.
Well
they are both presumably different forms of halfbreeds united against their opposition in order to survive and Lucan is a half breed so as explained in the game he feels a familial obligation to help his lycan brothers and sisters
If you remember she mentioned in the game that she inherited her blackwater flask form an original knight of the round table. Its basically implied (and a bit hinted at by an audio log) that this other mysterious knight is in fact another one of the original members of the order who have broken ties similar to the one who gave the rebel leader her flask.
Uhh it's not a cliffhanger?
He eliminated the double agent in the order and has a clear goal of revenge to seek in the followup.
Lafeyette's involvement in french revolutions, Tesla's motivations as an inventor and member of the order/rebels etc etc
Those are meant as immersion pieces things to show the authentic nature of the world you are in. A few of the photos actually do hint at story elements thanks to the people/things featured and the commentary on the back. Other objects are lore based such as
Darwins notes on the discovery of lycan skeletal remains
As I stated in my initital response the tutorial prompt are indeed a flaw and annoying. They break immersion but outside of that are nothing more than a slight nuisance and not a game ruining flaw as some make them out to be. Every game has repeated elements. Unless you are going to sit here and tell me that AC doesnt have copy pasted mechanics and side missions throughout the game. You said gameplay want varied I listed examples of the variety of gameplay showing it was now you say it repeats too much. Ok well that's your opinion which you are entitled to but I never felt put off by their implementation. This is a personal opinion not a factual objective criticism as you made it out to be initially.
The story will be the same. The game will not be exactly the same. SO far I have noticed and discovered story related elements I missed during my intitial playthorgh. Furthermore the gunplay encounters have all played out very differently now that I am more comfortable and familiar with the controls. The restrictive game design decisions vis a vis drawing weapons and what not are indeed flaws with the game. They are amateurish and indicative of RADs inexperience developing full fledged console games But again while these are flaws they did little to diminish my enjoyment of the game as a whole. To say that these ruin the replayability of the game is rediculous. That is your opinion. It is not a fact. If you wish to express that opinion that is fine but state it as an opinion just as I state my dissenting opinion: valid but not absolute.
I specifically cited multiple advanced behaviors the AI exhibited in my playthrough. Your statement would have people beleive the AI is nearly non existent my examples show otherwise. As previously stated its not the most advanced ai by any stretch but it is a very far cry from the incompetence you imply.
I really dont understand why instafail stealth is such a horrible thing. Why is an instant failure state when you screw up in stealth any less valid than an instant failure state when you miss a jump platforming? Or do you think every platforming game needs prince of persia style rewind systems? The stealth sections are short and occur twice over the course of the entire game. If they really bothered you that much then fine. They didnt bother me in the slightest and they were relatively simple. I honestly enjoyed them. Especially the later one. As stated previously the only design decision that felt out of place and completely unnecessary to me was the necessity of killing all the guards to proceed.
The only reason Galahad would have to avoid killing them is at the behest of
Lucan
he tells Lucan "just trust me"
I directly addressed this complaint in my previous response. It is an odd design decision but they provide standing cover for the player in these areas to accomidate the absence of the ability to take crouching cover. It's a mild annoyance at most that is addressed by the presence of appropriate cover.
All I'm saying is that I feel many are being incredibly hyperbolic with their criticisms of the game and some, like yourself in the initial post, are claiming their criticism is universal and indisputably true for everyone. They are not. They are opinions and should be expressed as such.
WordsintheWater
Member
With no contention ............. No GAF there would be ........
hahaha that made me crack up. It's starting to go beyond debate now though. People are just taking shots at each other for different tastes, acting like their shit don't stink, spoiler alert, everyone's shit stinks.
Just popped into say my "concern" over this game was founded. Impressions, videos, media, this can paint a fairly clear picture of where a game is headed. Loudninja posted my e3 impressions after I was banned asking why my thoughts had changed. I wasn't concern trolling, I wasn't trying to tear the game down, and honestly it wasn't that for much of anybody... the game was stagnant and lacked variation... they kept showing the samr thing because the game lacks variety. This isn't a "told you so" this is more trying to help people understand why fans genuinely interested in seeing this become a successful and viable franchise, started to voice concern and raise a lot of questions.
Not sure I want to get involved with this, but there are some aspects of game design that can be judged from observation rather than playing. If someone is critiquing how gun play feels without playing the game first, that is stupid. Complaining about not being able to skip cut scenes or other design decisions that lead to a lack of replayability can be ascertained by watching someone else play.
It's not like this game exists in a vacuum; many elements in this game are present in others to varying degrees, and playing those games gives you an idea of what to expect here.
Cutscenes should only be able to be skipped after you beat the game once. Cutscenes can convey a goal or porpuse to the gameplay, make you care/hate a character etc... They are part of the overall pace of the game.
ScatheZombie
Member
Only on Act 6, but so far I've got to say that Ready At Dawn are geniuses for tricking thousands of shooter fans into playing an adventure game.
Seriously, my wife has been watching me play and multiple times she has commented "This is just like a point-and-click adventure game!", a genre she loves, and it made me change a lot of my perspective on some of the questionable game design choices and realize that almost all of them are adventure game tropes.
This is one of the best adventure games I've ever played.
Seriously, my wife has been watching me play and multiple times she has commented "This is just like a point-and-click adventure game!", a genre she loves, and it made me change a lot of my perspective on some of the questionable game design choices and realize that almost all of them are adventure game tropes.
This is one of the best adventure games I've ever played.
this is true. if you go into it thinking its a tps youll def be dissapointed. You have to think of it as a mismash of genres.
I must have missed the parts where i solved puzzles and had interesting conversations
Vroadstar
Member
I agree with this. and I'm pressing x to give it a rest : D
Since people finally completed the game, how do you look back on my conclusion?
Sorry for linking this again. It's just happens that the OP actually included my conclusion about the graphics, not the game
Anyway, while I still agree with many of its flaws, I still stand behind my final conclusion and score. I think the Forbes article explained it really well. Two years ago, this would have been a 80+ game. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the lower scores. On the contrary. I think you could read my review as a 6.5 - 7.5 score, but I ended up going for 7.5 because I really liked the experience. Personal and all.
Thing is, when you see reviews give this game a 2,5/10 or a 4/10, I think that's just too harsh. Opinions and all, but even with its flaws, I cannot see how you would rate this game under 50%. If you compare it with other games in that range, you'll find out said games are a lot more shitty, I think. Hell, I've played games much worse than The Order 1886 which aren't even close to a 4/10.
I do think it's important Ready At Dawn knows where they've made mistakes. I actually do want a sequel. I think it's an interesting universe and I love the art and presentation. If they learn from their mistakes, the sequel could be great. However, I feel like they should have gotten an average of around 70, maybe 75. Again, that's just personal. The way things are now, if you'd read the internet, you'd almost believe this game is utter shit and borderline scammy.
Sorry for linking this again. It's just happens that the OP actually included my conclusion about the graphics, not the game
Anyway, while I still agree with many of its flaws, I still stand behind my final conclusion and score. I think the Forbes article explained it really well. Two years ago, this would have been a 80+ game. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the lower scores. On the contrary. I think you could read my review as a 6.5 - 7.5 score, but I ended up going for 7.5 because I really liked the experience. Personal and all.Thing is, when you see reviews give this game a 2,5/10 or a 4/10, I think that's just too harsh. Opinions and all, but even with its flaws, I cannot see how you would rate this game under 50%. If you compare it with other games in that range, you'll find out said games are a lot more shitty, I think. Hell, I've played games much worse than The Order 1886 which aren't even close to a 4/10.
I do think it's important Ready At Dawn knows where they've made mistakes. I actually do want a sequel. I think it's an interesting universe and I love the art and presentation. If they learn from their mistakes, the sequel could be great. However, I feel like they should have gotten an average of around 70, maybe 75. Again, that's just personal. The way things are now, if you'd read the internet, you'd almost believe this game is utter shit and borderline scammy.
The Xtortionist
Member
I'm happy you got 8 hours out of it. I timed my run and ended up with 6 hours 16 minutes, playing on hard with aim assist off, and got every collectable besides three audio logs and one inspect item.
I was mulling between a 7 and 8/10 in my head, so 7.5 seems about right. Gunplay enthusiasts will get much more out of The Order than other types of players.
You definitely just don't share the same opinions.
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