The Player 1 Podcast Topic
- Thread starter GhaleonQ
- Start date
Missed that whole discussion topic as well. Gotta look it up as I have no clue what the controversy stemmed from.
With the current state of indie games there's nothing wrong with that. Can't wait for Broken Age myself and maybe even Banner Saga since I'm on a crusade to get into Mike's head. Watched some of a documentary about extremist mormons (ugh at God telling you who to marry, even if it means multiple wives) and I'm now starting to play DmC and that Capcom RPG he's on about. I already did the same with Phil back by being 10 once. CJ and Greg to follow when they talk about something that's not Adult Swim/Nintendo or Sega/Kinect.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
DmC is pretty fun to play but damn I hate the atmosphere. Nothing against the game, I just hate that dark, disgusting vibe the whole game gives off. Also the writing sucks, I'm now just skipping every cutscene
As someone who isn't from the US of A and has never had to (or wanted to) learn the states this map is practically meaningless to me since I can only recognize maybe five states from it. However I now know where Utah is thanks to the map and P1P. LOL. More discussion about the map can be found here.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Count me as a vote for not wanting to hear any more talk about Nintendo and message boards. I feel like I've heard CJ say "and someone said they should sell a unit without the GamePad" like a trillion times. No more please no more!
HamPster PamPster
Member
Scratch that. This is the year I get nintendo fit!
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
btw Mike, glad you're spending time with DmC. It's really a fun-ass game.
Can't wait to hear CJ's opinion on the Nintendo investor meeting. It was such a shit show there's no way to spin it positively. Well I mean...
Oh. This has got to be... OK, look. Nintendo is a company that went their own way and made Wii U what it is and it's selling poorly. Now they respond to their investors basically saying they ain't gonna do anything differently and that's supposed to be good? I completely understand that CJ and others alike are happy with their $300 consoles that they get to play Nintendo games on, but the rest of the world isn't and that's a problem. Why's that a problem? Because Nintendo selling Wii U's almost solely to Nintendo fans to play Nintendo games on caused them to lose $250,000,000 this fiscal year. How long do you think they can afford to just sell consoles to people like CJ and keep releasing games for the same crowd if their losses are that humongous even with the 3DS trying its best to balance it out. You have got to live in the thickest reality distortion bunker if you can't see that your childhood-warmth filled Nintendo-love isn't going to magically turn into money that offsets the fact that Nintendo is doing poorly and refuses to do anything drastic to fix it.
If my assumption of sarcasm is correct, it is rather ironic considering the current state of Nintendo innovation. Especially the fact that in Nintendo games the use of the gamepad amounts to little more than off-TV play and upcoming Nintendo favorite DK Tropical Freeze having a blank screen on the gamepad during gameplay. Oh and need I point out that at least according to the rumor (which could be true or not, but that's the one CJ commented on regardless) Halo 2 Anniversary is going to have tons of more content than a Nintendo innovation of Wind Waker HD that actually removed a feature that could have perfectly worked on the gamepad (the green fairy GBA stuff). Yeah, innovation.
If I was reading that tweet completely wrong, what I just said was a bunch of nothing, I guess
This again is that reality distortion bunker in effect. CJ is happy as long has he and his childhood love of Nintendo games is served well (or at any level) yet refuses to see a company that lost quarter of a billion dollars in one fiscal year even with a well-selling 3DS balancing things out. That money wasn't lost on a Wii U "bubble". It was money Nintendo lost, or I guess at this point I should specify that they project to loose, with every aspect of Nintendo put together. All because they spent a fortune designing and manufacturing a console that isn't selling well. But, of course, there's no need to get upset or disappointed when Nintendo just announced a date for Mario Kart 8!
CJ is basically saying that giving people what they want right now is a bad idea if you can't keep the online services up for an eternity. I would imagine he uses Microsoft as his example who started their Xbox Live! service on the original Xbox and then cut the wires a few years after the successor Xbox 360 and its online service had launched. The day Microsoft cut the wires was one of the most depressing day ever, and in online forums and publications people vowed to never play anything Microsoft puts out again and how Microsoft should never have put that online service up in the first place. People argued that playing Halo 2 for all those years was all for nothing and more of an insult to all gamers around the world, when they couldn't continue play Halo 2 online for as long as they wanted. Oh... My mistake. That's not what happened at all!
Microsoft let people play Halo 2 online for years and that experience changed the online shooter genre and scene dramatically. No one would ever say that just because it ended abruptly some 8+ years later after its launch, the Xbox Live! should not have existed. But here we have CJ arguing that people who bitch about Nintendo's lackluster online support might regard it differently. Oh give me a break.
People want to buy a console and play games on it right now. Who on earth would say no to a properly online-implementing Nintendo game just because one day it might not work? Also who on earth says online games need to be either fully reliable or completely lacking on it?
Bottom of the line for me is that all people expect from Nintendo is to rise up and match the demand of the gaming populace and if doing so makes them more like the companies that already have, then so fucking be it. Nintendo isn't being innovative and clever showing up at a firing range dressed up as a clown wielding an artistic piece of driftwood and a box of chewing gum. They might humor a relatively small (yet in the low millions) number of die-hard fans but that's just not how to run a business aiming to make a profit and not even a business that aims to humor those fans for as many years possible.
tl;dr: Sorry for the rant. This rant is not for anyone to read, other than maybe CJ. I'm angry at Nintendo for wasting away and I'm angry at CJ living in a reality distortion bunker where he thinks Nintendo is doing an ace job and that wasting-away is the new making-money.
Christ Jonhston said:
Oh. This has got to be... OK, look. Nintendo is a company that went their own way and made Wii U what it is and it's selling poorly. Now they respond to their investors basically saying they ain't gonna do anything differently and that's supposed to be good? I completely understand that CJ and others alike are happy with their $300 consoles that they get to play Nintendo games on, but the rest of the world isn't and that's a problem. Why's that a problem? Because Nintendo selling Wii U's almost solely to Nintendo fans to play Nintendo games on caused them to lose $250,000,000 this fiscal year. How long do you think they can afford to just sell consoles to people like CJ and keep releasing games for the same crowd if their losses are that humongous even with the 3DS trying its best to balance it out. You have got to live in the thickest reality distortion bunker if you can't see that your childhood-warmth filled Nintendo-love isn't going to magically turn into money that offsets the fact that Nintendo is doing poorly and refuses to do anything drastic to fix it.
That's CJ responding, what I would assume sarcastically, to friend of the show @mudron who lamented the news regarding Halo 2 Anniversary for Xbox One and the Nintendo investor meeting hurting his head.Christ Jonhston said:
If my assumption of sarcasm is correct, it is rather ironic considering the current state of Nintendo innovation. Especially the fact that in Nintendo games the use of the gamepad amounts to little more than off-TV play and upcoming Nintendo favorite DK Tropical Freeze having a blank screen on the gamepad during gameplay. Oh and need I point out that at least according to the rumor (which could be true or not, but that's the one CJ commented on regardless) Halo 2 Anniversary is going to have tons of more content than a Nintendo innovation of Wind Waker HD that actually removed a feature that could have perfectly worked on the gamepad (the green fairy GBA stuff). Yeah, innovation.
If I was reading that tweet completely wrong, what I just said was a bunch of nothing, I guess
In response to @ericweiss who asked how is it possible for CJ to be happy with anything Nintendo announced on this investor meeting.Christ Jonhston said:
This again is that reality distortion bunker in effect. CJ is happy as long has he and his childhood love of Nintendo games is served well (or at any level) yet refuses to see a company that lost quarter of a billion dollars in one fiscal year even with a well-selling 3DS balancing things out. That money wasn't lost on a Wii U "bubble". It was money Nintendo lost, or I guess at this point I should specify that they project to loose, with every aspect of Nintendo put together. All because they spent a fortune designing and manufacturing a console that isn't selling well. But, of course, there's no need to get upset or disappointed when Nintendo just announced a date for Mario Kart 8!
I contemplated for a while whether I should tackle this tweet or not due to mostly it being a very idiotic thing to say and because I don't believe for a second it was meant as CJ's all-encompassing answer to Nintendo's online features. But I will anyway.Chris Jonhston said:
CJ is basically saying that giving people what they want right now is a bad idea if you can't keep the online services up for an eternity. I would imagine he uses Microsoft as his example who started their Xbox Live! service on the original Xbox and then cut the wires a few years after the successor Xbox 360 and its online service had launched. The day Microsoft cut the wires was one of the most depressing day ever, and in online forums and publications people vowed to never play anything Microsoft puts out again and how Microsoft should never have put that online service up in the first place. People argued that playing Halo 2 for all those years was all for nothing and more of an insult to all gamers around the world, when they couldn't continue play Halo 2 online for as long as they wanted. Oh... My mistake. That's not what happened at all!
Microsoft let people play Halo 2 online for years and that experience changed the online shooter genre and scene dramatically. No one would ever say that just because it ended abruptly some 8+ years later after its launch, the Xbox Live! should not have existed. But here we have CJ arguing that people who bitch about Nintendo's lackluster online support might regard it differently. Oh give me a break.
People want to buy a console and play games on it right now. Who on earth would say no to a properly online-implementing Nintendo game just because one day it might not work? Also who on earth says online games need to be either fully reliable or completely lacking on it?
Bottom of the line for me is that all people expect from Nintendo is to rise up and match the demand of the gaming populace and if doing so makes them more like the companies that already have, then so fucking be it. Nintendo isn't being innovative and clever showing up at a firing range dressed up as a clown wielding an artistic piece of driftwood and a box of chewing gum. They might humor a relatively small (yet in the low millions) number of die-hard fans but that's just not how to run a business aiming to make a profit and not even a business that aims to humor those fans for as many years possible.
tl;dr: Sorry for the rant. This rant is not for anyone to read, other than maybe CJ. I'm angry at Nintendo for wasting away and I'm angry at CJ living in a reality distortion bunker where he thinks Nintendo is doing an ace job and that wasting-away is the new making-money.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
NINTENDO
NON NINTENDO STUFF
Any of the hosts play Monster Hunter? I did a search on the site and you guys only mentioned it a little bit. I think CJ would really like it since he seems to like PSO.
I would put up in-depth Nintendo thoughts but I know the P1P guys don't like discussing/dwelling on negative things so no point in posting a ton of stuff.
I will say that the QOL thing sounds like a possibly successful diversification but I certainly see it affecting Nintendo's 'traditional' game business if it takes off.
Besides that, the whole conference felt very unfocused.
I will say that the QOL thing sounds like a possibly successful diversification but I certainly see it affecting Nintendo's 'traditional' game business if it takes off.
Besides that, the whole conference felt very unfocused.
NON NINTENDO STUFF
Any of the hosts play Monster Hunter? I did a search on the site and you guys only mentioned it a little bit. I think CJ would really like it since he seems to like PSO.
Is PSO as horribly farmy as MH is? MH is definitely a material farming time sink so that might not be what any of the members are for.
nckillthegrimace
Member
If you think every aspect of that presentation was bad, then I don't know what to say to you. They announced some good stuff like unifying the software architecture on handhelds and consoles, an account system, DS virtual console, a scheme to discount software for avid consumers, increased licensing out of IP (including to game makers) and the reassertion that Nintendo will continue to make video games instead of collapsing into a blackhole.
Of course, it wasn't all good. Their smartphone plans seem slapped together, doubling down on the moribund gamepad, Mario Kart coming out much later than it should, the bizarre move into non-wearable fitness items (?), and the fact that none of the really cool stuff is happening in the short-term are all terrible things.
Of course, it wasn't all good. Their smartphone plans seem slapped together, doubling down on the moribund gamepad, Mario Kart coming out much later than it should, the bizarre move into non-wearable fitness items (?), and the fact that none of the really cool stuff is happening in the short-term are all terrible things.
I'm all for unified accounts and merging the handheld and console business, but that's years away. I can't get excited about a unified account that should have been in place 6 years ago finally being implemented a decade late.
SuperPac
Member
Nintendo's gonna do what Nintendo's gonna do. You're either interested in the content they're going to put out on their own hardware or you're not. I am. And I'm really not bothered by some of the things others are so up in arms about because I don't expect Nintendo to ever change those things. I can't get upset every Nintendo Direct or investor meeting that passes where they don't announce unified accounts or massive online play infrastructures or virtual console expansions or whatever is thought would save them from whatever technological peril they're currently suffering from.
The 3DS and Wii U had quite a few of my favorite games from the past year. That's all I happen to care about. Games. I don't expect their market position to mean those systems won't still continue to have great content to play. And if they don't - I have a PS4 and XBO.
Iwata pretty much explains their philosophy again in the investor meeting notes. To expect them to turn into Sony and Microsoft is not understanding Nintendo's company goals or history.
The 3DS and Wii U had quite a few of my favorite games from the past year. That's all I happen to care about. Games. I don't expect their market position to mean those systems won't still continue to have great content to play. And if they don't - I have a PS4 and XBO.
Iwata pretty much explains their philosophy again in the investor meeting notes. To expect them to turn into Sony and Microsoft is not understanding Nintendo's company goals or history.
I don't know, I think Iwata changed Nintendo quite significantly over the past two generations. He basically killed NoA for example.
I made what you said into a list.
- unifying the software architecture on handhelds and consoles
- an account system
- DS virtual console
- a scheme to discount software for avid consumers
- increased licensing out of IP (including to game makers)
- reassertion that Nintendo will continue to make video games instead of collapsing into a blackhole.
Well first of all the unified software architecture for 3DS and Wii U is a good thing for developing games for both platforms. However it's going to solve a very niche problem since most companies aren't exactly running away from Wii U development due it it being so hard. It's because the console isn't selling and therefore there isn't the kind of market for games on it. A back-end solution like that ain't gonna move any Wii U's.
A unified account system is a pleasant addition but it's an after-the-fact duct tape solution that's bound to mean nothing when Nintendo's account system is so fucking abysmal to begin with in regards to download rights to purchased software and the lack of cloud saves or unified settings. They are basically saing "we'll unify the Wii U's nothing with the 3DS's nothing to make... uhm... we'll get back to you on that."
DS virtual console is something that definitely sounds like a good addition by itself but so was GBA virtual console when it got announced over a year ago. Yeah where's that? How many units has that sold by now? Oh yeah it isn't even fucking out yet. Announcing shit on top of previous announcements that haven't been fulfilled is called bullshitting. Yeah, there, I said it. They are buying time. For what? I don't know.
Nintendo discounts for avid consumers? Yeah that sounds much like the original Wii U Premium discount plan that was unreasonably out-of-reach for the general Wii U user. Nintendo doesn't need to suck up to "avid" consumers now, they need to suck up to the possible-consumer instead. Nintendo will never make enough games by themselves to sell to a limited amount of die-hard fans, even with boosting those sales with discount plans, to offset the development and manufacturing costs of the Wii U. They need to sell more units to more people and do it asap.
It's funny how Nintendo selling its games on someone else's platform is a horrible thing that would ruin their brand value (according to most of NeoGAF's staunch Luigi-hats) yet Nintendo licensing its IP's to other developers is not?
And for the final bit it's worth mentioning that Nintendo can say what ever they want but it ain't gonna make it come true. Their share value dropped after the investor meeting and Nintendo promised to buy back a billion's worth of stock. Neither of these things are good, you realize that?
Ask Greg how his childhood favorite with its blue mammal mascot is doing these days? Sega fucked up way faster and from a worse position than Nintendo is currently in but the sure fucked up. And now they are practically gone aside from having the same name as before.
This is exactly what I was talking about in terms of the reality distortion bunker. You put it into words so perfectly it almost completely fits a definition of someone with their head in a hole. Except for the fact that you keep shouting up from your damp hideout making commentary on how well Nintendo is doing and how you got both of your thumbs up.
So you are seriously happy that Nintendo is venturing outside the gaming space to make money? That doesn't worry you at all? It's worth mentioning, my friend, that the specific wording was that this life quality and health approach is something completely outside the Wii U and 3DS. As in, they are turning into a completely different field.
How long do you expect Nintendo to be able to keep doing what you love so much if...
a) They are making tons of more money elsewhere. Can Nintendo justify to shareholders that all that fine ass profit is served well going into pleasing the hard-core Nintendo fans with a new system and games every few years?
b) They end up losing even more money.
I sincerely can't believe how Nintendo manufacturing health products is ever actually going to make their console and gaming business better. I sincerely doubt Nintendo will just keep finding more ways to effectively make money to support something that effectively loses it. It' just a fantasy. A fantasy for people with their head in a hole too afraid to look up and smell the smoke.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
It's just as grindy, just with levels instead of material gathering.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
EDIT: double post
And I'm sure that business venture of manufacturing laminated pieces of paper was expensive to them, was it?
-
And for the record I'm not somehow against CJ or the podcast. The Player One Podcast is practically my favorite out there and I love CJ and the guys more than CJ loves Nintendo games. I even love Phil.
But the reason it irks me that CJ has this attitude is... Well let me tell you. If I see someone with their head in a hole I couldn't care less to go and poke them and show them how they should see things my way. But CJ isn't just someone with their head in a hole. CJ is tapping the rocks and pulling the roots to spread his opinions and critique of other's opinions on Nintendo. He deserves the same amount of criticism, peer review and counter-arguments as he's putting on to others via his Twitter, P1P and Neogaf. That's all. I'm not on some anti-CJ crusade trying to convert him or his followers. Fair critique and counter arguments are something that I see as part of the conversation whether CJ chooses to acknowledge them or not.
Peace.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Why do I care if it moves Wii Us? I was talking about the assertion from the Q&A that Nintendo is going to have one unified software structure across their platforms going forward like Apple does on iOS. And this solves more than a "very niche problem." It allows Nintendo's first party games to appear on both platforms and also helps third parties get games on both systems if, for example, they really were only inclined to put it on one of them, like with Japanese third parties and the 3DS.
They mainly focused on the account system in relation to future systems, but okay.
Yeah, it does sound like a good addition. Which is why I mentioned it. Also, do you get mad when companies announce a game, but then announce a new game before that game actually gets released?
Why does that matter to me? I get my discount. I feel like you're focusing on this event solely from the point of view of some guy who never plays video games, though.
Can you not tell the difference between allowing other developers to make Nintendo games on Nintendo hardware, which increases the amount of games available and drives platform sales and Nintendo making games for other systems, which defeats the entire purpose of Nintendo hardware?
Okay.
You seem very much intent in not seeing the fact that the Wii U is selling poorly and that Nintendo is taking a huge hit for it without any proper plans to turn that around. But you are happy because you get what you want and clearly I can't argue to you that Nintendo doing poorly puts the "I'm happy because I get what I want" situation into a serious trouble.
You pull money out of your ass to support Nintendo therefore you expect Nintendo to pull money out of their asses to support you. What a comfortable little world
EDIT: This response is here in continuation to my rant against CJ's attitude. Otherwise I don't wish to argue Nintendo with other Gaffers in this thread since its actually not about P1P directly.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I feel like Nintendo is a good friend who's lost a lot of weight, looks gaunt, fatigued, and pale. I may not be a doctor, I can't diagnose the problem, and I can't fix him or her myself, but I can see that something might be wrong and say "You don't look so well. You should see a doctor."
Nintendo should go to the doctor, and that probably means getting outside help (like Disney did in the 1980s with Michael Eisner, who saved the company).
Nintendo should go to the doctor, and that probably means getting outside help (like Disney did in the 1980s with Michael Eisner, who saved the company).
nckillthegrimace
Member
You seem very much intent in not seeing the fact that the Wii U is selling poorly and that Nintendo is taking a huge hit for it without any proper plans to turn that around. But you are happy because you get what you want and clearly I can't argue to you that Nintendo doing poorly puts the "I'm happy because I get what I want" situation into a serious trouble.
You pull money out of your ass to support Nintendo therefore you expect Nintendo to pull money out of their asses to support you. What a comfortable little world
EDIT: This response is here in continuation to my rant against CJ's attitude. Otherwise I don't wish to argue Nintendo with other Gaffers in this thread since its actually not about P1P directly.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Whoa calm down, dude. You said there were good things that came out of the presentation and I merely responded saying that none of it was anything that would save the Wii U and make it sell more. To that you responded by saying that's none of your issue since you are getting what you want and to that I responded as I did above. It's not rocket science.
nckillthegrimace
Member
I'm not angry; I'm horribly confused. Your posts don't make any sense.
Let's leave it at that. I took a wrong turn to start talking to you in the first place since my rant was more towards CJ. If I wanted to argue with you about Nintendo we can do it in some other thread
My mistake.nckillthegrimace
Member
Let's leave it at that. I took a wrong turn to start talking to you in the first place since my rant was more towards CJ. If I wanted to argue with you about Nintendo we can do it in some other thread
I just don't understand how you get that I think the Wii U is performing great because I liked aspects of the financial presentation. Also, you didn't really say why there were bad so much as rant about tangentially related things.
Neuromancer
Member
Plexcide I don't know maybe this isn't the best place to argue with CJ about Nintendo.
I was more trying to air out some criticism and counter-arguments to what he says on Twitter, over here and on the podcast than just full on get to an argument of back and forth although that would have been fun
I mean he already moved on so it's all dead and cold now. He doesn't need to address every opinion or criticism thrown at him but this thread shouldn't exactly be just for the positive feedback and lists of uploaded episodes so I feel like my arguments against his opinions belong in this thread whether he likes them or not. I could be wrong though.
Sounds like someone lamenting Apple's transition from computers to consumer electronics with the launch of the iPod.
Apple did some very serious work redesigning their failing computer business as well, skyrocketing the sales of Apple's notebooks and home computers. They moved with the market on all fronts and "commercialized" or "generalized" their computers and OS quite a lot from back when they were mostly bought by companies and creative professionals. They even made a deal with Microsoft to get Office on Mac OS. Also Apple didn't thwart the iPod by making it for their hardware/OS only and soon allowed people to use iTunes on Windows too.
Nintendo being more like its competition yet staying different and aiming to be better is exactly what Apple did before and it worked. To a degree, of course, but that's what I'd want Nintendo to do.
SuperPac
Member
You know, I hear that statement a lot that Iwata killed NOA but I'm not sure how today's NOA is worse off than 2004's or 1994's.
I would refer to this post on the matter.
As far as competing with Sony and Microsoft, if you look at Japan they designed a very much PSP-like system in the 3DS, and specifically went after that audience (with MH exclusivity and all). Iwata definitely wanted to compete with Sony and Microsoft in the West too, he just grossly missed the mark.
SuperPac
Member
Ah, ok. Well, I think you could look at almost any company and how their first- and second-party strategies have evolved over time and come up with a similar post. Why doesn't Microsoft do as many first-party games anymore? They did back in the original Xbox days! They bought Rare and now what do they do? Etc. etc. Market changes, those western games weren't successes globally for Nintendo (read: In Japan) versus you could look at the way they're doing things with Next Level or Retro.
I'm not saying they didn't want to compete with PSP or the other companies' hardware. They just want to do it not based on a technology arms race.
You seem very much intent in not seeing the fact that the Wii U is selling poorly and that Nintendo is taking a huge hit for it without any proper plans to turn that around. But you are happy because you get what you want and clearly I can't argue to you that Nintendo doing poorly puts the "I'm happy because I get what I want" situation into a serious trouble.
You pull money out of your ass to support Nintendo therefore you expect Nintendo to pull money out of their asses to support you. What a comfortable little world
EDIT: This response is here in continuation to my rant against CJ's attitude. Otherwise I don't wish to argue Nintendo with other Gaffers in this thread since its actually not about P1P directly.
I think the mistake you're making is what you want will not do anything to turn around Nintendo with any immediacy. If you read the slides and the WSJ blog, they talked about their plan to turn things around. They are not going to become Sony or Microsoft. We do not need three console manufacturers all doing the samething. That doesn't make any sense.
It's still a ways off, but we're talking days rather than months.
The video's all captured, the script is written, and the first two segments have been roughed in. Unfortunately being sick the last couple of weeks has slowed things down, as my voice has been so rough I haven't been able to finish recording the final bits of VO.
The video's all captured, the script is written, and the first two segments have been roughed in. Unfortunately being sick the last couple of weeks has slowed things down, as my voice has been so rough I haven't been able to finish recording the final bits of VO.