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[Craig of War]

400 for the 1tb damn

 

[Panajev2001a]

Guys, look at the post dates. I no longer have the interest to deal with 'the ps5 ssd is so advanced it will even cook you dinner' crowd. We're 2 months away from real world tests - patience. ☯

I am not sure what crowd you are talking about, the one that answers in context and debates the points at hand instead of deflecting ?

I appreciated the irony of debating your PS5 points with XSX’s XVA ones and quotes while you deflected and went all passive aggressive.

 

[existensmaximum]

You are completely wrong here. The PS5's I/O solution had industry leading bandwidth AND latency. The PC can catch up on raw bandwidth by using similar PCIe Gen 4 SSD's, but it's not going to catch up on latency without a significant re-architecting of how Windows 10 and graphics drivers work. Yes, on the PC you can use CPU based software decoding to try and compete, but you then have to go from SSD to main memory, do the CPU decode, write to main memory and then copy to graphics memory. The PS5 goes from SSD directly into graphics memory in one step. That's innovation the PC can't touch yet. The PC folks (Microsoft, Nvidia, AMD) will work to catch up with the latency numbers, but it will take a few years. As an engineer, I recognize the innovation that went into the PS5's I/O subsystem. It's real innovation, not marketing hype.

Yup, fellow computer hardware engineer here agreeing with you. Obviously.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Lol, what trickery? Lossless compression is usually 2:1 ratio (usually; PS5's a bit less than that, which is honestly unusual. I'm interested to know why it isn't 11 GB/s lossless compressed as I'd expect), so lossless compression up to 9 GB/s should just be assumed given the other numbers.

More interesting part here is Sony considering 4-bit MLC chips; maybe they are still using 4-bit chips or decided to go with 8-bit chips instead. 48-bit (6 byte) bus vs. 76-bit (12 byte) bus, I figure the latter would be more desirable. But also more expensive. There's other things to the Samsung one still not known though like the number of channels, the type of NAND modules (in capacity, which can influence the number of channels), whatever cache type the drive has and its amount etc.

So yeah, theoretically it might seem better than Sony's but without knowing the other stuff that can't be definitely ascertained. Dunno to say if it is even comparable considering those other factors, because most of the work comes through the flash memory controller, not the NAND modules themselves.

I think RedGamingTech had a video on this. He said 2 channels, but I think it was "guessing" that it'll be based on current consumer SSD like this. I don't it was anything official.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Latency, latency, latency.

This new SSD from Samsung is basically the equivalent of them making a higher top speed sports car than they made last year. Sony on the other hand, may not have as high top speed, but still has much better acceleration and handling. It's almost as if Sony's SSD and I/O is like an Ariel Atom versus Samsung's high-end sports car.

 

[blastprocessor]

I take these aren't going to be cheap?

3 quarters of a PS5.

 

[captainraincoat]

I take these aren't going to be cheap?

And it’s one of the reasons why ps5 is going to be extremely expensive

 

[Killer Sakoman]

This is not rivaling PS5, this was made to work on PS5.
PS5 requires external SSDs that are 7GB/s or higher

 

[rofif]

isnt nvme pcie3 3gb and pcie4 5gb/s ?
I have x570 pcie4 motherboard and my corsair mp510 nvme is running 3,5gb lol. Am I ps5 ?
And nothing loads faster than on normal 500mb ssd

 

[Entroyp]

isnt nvme pcie3 3gb and pcie4 5gb/s ?
I have x570 pcie4 motherboard and my corsair mp510 nvme is running 3,5gb lol. Am I ps5 ?
And nothing loads faster than on normal 500mb ssd

4 lanes of PCIe convert to roughly 7 GB/s

 

[GHG]

isnt nvme pcie3 3gb and pcie4 5gb/s ?
I have x570 pcie4 motherboard and my corsair mp510 nvme is running 3,5gb lol. Am I ps5 ?
And nothing loads faster than on normal 500mb ssd

PCIe 4.0 maxes put at 7 GBps.

Nothing loads faster because no games are designed (yet) to take advantage of the extra speed on PC.

If you do any work on your PC that is bandwidth sensitive however then that's a different story, you will notice the difference there.

 

[prinz_valium]

PCIe 4.0 maxes put at 7 GBps.

Nothing loads faster because no games are designed (yet) to take advantage of the extra speed on PC.

If you do any work on your PC that is bandwidth sensitive however then that's a different story, you will notice the difference there.

7.877GBps with some overhead bcause of the coding. Roughly 2%

 

[Diddy X]

I'll just leave this here:

There are ways to make an apology and this is not the right one, poor guy.

 

[Spukc]

so basically ps5 is 5 something
and samsung is 7 something?

amazing who would have guessed that pc would end up being more advanced then consoles?
the insanity of it all

this madness need to stop right meow.
Heck i heard rumors from crazy people on gaf that the upcoming 3900 from nvidia might be better too

 

[Entroyp]

We should have a facepalm and roller eyes emoji here.

 

[noise36]

Why is Sonygaf upset? The big jump for consoles is SSD standard, speed isn't as important so not a big concern if PC gets well ahead like it does every console generation.

 

[RaySoft]

Time to debunk the "but muh special hardware" marketing spiel people bought hook line and sinker from Sony, with the horse's own words:







That's right. All of PS5 "special sauce" is barely worth a shitty intel core. LOL

Gonna be some harsh reality checks at launch.

except that the dedicated decompressor on the PS5 uses no CPU time and can do 22GB/S. You'd have to dedicate 5 of those intel cores to match it.

 

[Tripolygon]

Why is Sonygaf upset? The big jump for consoles is SSD standard, speed isn't as important so not a big concern if PC gets well ahead like it does every console generation.

This is the SSD i will be using in my PS5. PS5 and PC will be using this same or similar SSD and driving the cost down, so i really don't understand why you think "Sonygaf" would be upset. Sonygaf should rejoice as Samsung has announced the first PCIE 4.0 SSD that should be compatible with PS5.

 

[iJudged]

nope, they're going to cost more than $199 for the 1TB version

I thought it was going to be much worse, not too bad...

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

And it will cost more than an actual PlayStation 5 console

 

[fersnake]

The delayed new Samsung PCIe 4.0 is coming soon.



...

The PS5-rivalling Samsung 980 Pro SSD is launching within two months

The delayed new Samsung PCIe 4.0 is coming soon.

www.pcgamer.com

Two of these bad boys in raid0 is going to be:

Linus is that you?

 

[Md Ray]

There are ways to make an apology and this is not the right one, poor guy.

Why?

 

[daninthemix]

Latency, latency, latency.

This new SSD from Samsung is basically the equivalent of them making a higher top speed sports car than they made last year. Sony on the other hand, may not have as high top speed, but still has much better acceleration and handling. It's almost as if Sony's SSD and I/O is like an Ariel Atom versus Samsung's high-end sports car.

Indeed - and this has been scientifically proven.

Just look at the wealth and myriad of real-world tests available demonstrating this! For instance, Ratchet and Clank loads its levels in minus figures - it literally causes the player to travel back in time.

 

[zaitsu]

Its not a rival.
Its just first drive that could be used as expansion for PS5. PC drives to catchup with PS5 5.5 GB/s speed needs exactly 7GB/s. So its not better, its exactly the same in real world. And the reason for that it will be probably first drive first with Sony approval to use in PS5.

On the other hand i think price for 1TB will vary from 300 to 400$, so basically definitely more than half of PS5.

So new gpu at level of PS5 lets take 3060 will cost 399$ and new 980 pro drive will cost 299$. And thats more than PS5 already even when you have proper PCIe4 motherboard, CPU and RAM.

So PCMR will always be better, but it comes with the price tag. Thats all i wanted to say. Having anyting lower than 2080ti right now makes you not ready for whole next generation.

 

[Diddy X]

Why?

He humiliated himself too much, from his last videos he seems to have lost all self-worth.

 

[H . R . 2]

PC's have more powerful shit, we get it, why is It such a big deal?

...which happens to cost an arm and a leg !!
PC gamers call themselves the superior race (LOL) while spending a fortune on PC hardware while consoles are the ones supporting and producing actual games that later on come to this ungrateful platform. (I have neither the ps4 nor the X1 or X1X, I own a PC with 16 gig RAM and a 1080ti, for those having the audacity to call me anything else but a PC gamer)
it's quite simple, consoles cost a very small fraction of the money spent on a high-end PC, so there was never a competition. so please people, be quiet and enjoy your lives while they last

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

PC devs aren't going to be able to base gameplay around this, say like Ratchet and Clank, until these drives have some serious market penetration, which may well be a whole console generation. So while they are technically on the same level or above, they won't likely be properly utilised for some time.

 

[MrLove]

Nothing changes. Sony removed all bottlenecks between SSD and Framebuffer. The SSD is just one piece of the puzzle (cerny) Basically, even with the fastest SSD of all time, you have the problem that you cannot load any data into the frame that currently being rendered. The PS5 allows excatly that. Absolutely unique and revolutionary and thats why we will see brutaly pixelquality (ue5 demo as a first example)

 

[On Demand]

LMFAO at PC fanboys only looking at the 7gb number. You people are suppose to be enthusiast???? And you make a simple mistake like that????

PS5 SSD is 5.5gb raw actual real world use, not theoretical like PC which also has latency and ton overhead on top. PS5 SSD is still waaay more advanced and faster. There's a reason why you need a theoretical faster drive to work with the PS5 and not the exact same speed. Same reason why PC will need a shit ton of RAM to make up for games that full advantage of the PS5 SSD.

 

[Croatoan]

What's desperate isn't the news that Samsung is releasing a fast SSD. It's PC gamer calling it "PS5 Rivalling!"

It isn't "rivalling" anything else than slower SSDs from competitors. As a matter of fact, more and faster SSDs benefit PS5 as much as they benefit PC.

This is the same crap as the "Unreal Engine 5 runs on a laptop!" we saw a few weeks ago, and it smells like desperation.

I don't disagree with you, but what I really think is dumb is that people think they will actually notice any difference between current SSDs and the PS5 super amazing ssd. THEY ARE FUCKING HARD DRIVES PEOPLE. Yeah, in sony exclusives you might have uber fast load times, or possibly a small amount of less pop-in but those things are not going to render or compute for you.

 

[Shmunter]

Raw speed is a good start. But is this correct....?

PC to get new assets from ssd...

1. Game requests asset ->
2. i/o driver ->
3. ssd read ->
4. compressed data loaded into ram ->
5. cpu decompress ->
6. decompressed data into ram ->
7. GPU driver swizzle ->
8. decompressed asset loaded into gpu ram

PS5 to get new assets from ssd...

1. Game requests asset ->
2. ssd read ->
3. decompressed asset loaded into unified ram

Isn't this the crux of where Cerny and Sweeney are coming from? Purpose built unified memory subsystem with speed and low latency vs legacy pc I/o ?

 

[RaySoft]

I don't disagree with you, but what I really think is dumb is that people think they will actually notice any difference between current SSDs and the PS5 super amazing ssd. THEY ARE FUCKING HARD DRIVES PEOPLE. Yeah, in sony exclusives you might have uber fast load times, or possibly a small amount of less pop-in but those things are not going to render or compute for you.

You need to broaden your imagination a little. You PC guys are so stuck in the "faster, faster" mindset, that you seem to forget things can also be done differently. This i/o solution will bring so much more than just speed.
No hardware is better than the code that drives it, but there are alot of talent out there.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think RedGamingTech had a video on this. He said 2 channels, but I think it was "guessing" that it'll be based on current consumer SSD like this. I don't it was anything official.

Meh, that was a really old post FWIW xD. Most consumer-level SSDs are 2-channels physically, but can have more channels virtualized by splitting (or further sub-dividing) the physical channels. DRAM technologies like HBM2 already do this (a 128-bit "channel" (DRAM module chip in the stack) can operate as 2x 64-bit virtual channels in pseudo-mode, which generally gives much better performance in terms of keeping page activity and such busy, better utilizing the bandwidth of the chips, at least on some data access routines/workloads), I'd assume NAND works similarly.

AFAIK Sony isn't using a pseudo-style virtualized channel setup so each NAND module is presenting its full bit bandwidth as a channel. PC SSDs on average may have around 2 or so physical channels but could have more virtualized channels through pseudo-channel configurations.

Raw speed is a good start. But is this correct....?

PC to get new assets from ssd...

1. Game requests asset ->
2. i/o driver ->
3. ssd read ->
4. compressed data loaded into ram ->
5. cpu decompress ->
6. decompressed data into ram ->
7. GPU driver swizzle ->
8. decompressed asset loaded into gpu ram

PS5 to get new assets from ssd...

1. Game requests asset ->
2. ssd read ->
3. decompressed asset loaded into unified ram

Isn't this the crux of where Cerny and Sweeney are coming from? Purpose built unified memory subsystem with speed and low latency vs legacy pc I/o ?

I'd assume this new Samsung drive is being designed with some future-proofing in mind which means it should also be compatible with DirectStorage when that deploys en masse for PCs. The big focus with that is to redesign the file I/O systems currently in-place on that platform to address the redundancies and choke points you specify.

Some of this is already handled through GPUDirectStorage but that's mainly WRT GPUs directly accessing SSD storage to load the data into VRAM skipping the shadow-copying from system RAM typical with older GPUs.

LOL no. Depending on what kind of data, lossless compression can actually achieve very little compression. 2:1 is not that common in the lossless case.

After doing some research into it a little after that post, it'd appear that to be somewhat accurate. Usually seeing ratios around 1.35:1 to 1.5:1; certain specific data can probably get somewhat better ratios but that wouldn't be a giant range of data.

Also for whatever reason this thread rose back from the grave

 

[Warnen]

and people think PC gaming is $$$

 

[Bo_Hazem]

and people think PC gaming is $$$

PC is not expensive, it's over-priced.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

To all the guys who said PC can't handle ratchet and clank, ue5 demo, etc....

 

[Black_Stride]

Nothing changes. Sony removed all bottlenecks between SSD and Framebuffer. The SSD is just one piece of the puzzle (cerny) Basically, even with the fastest SSD of all time, you have the problem that you cannot load any data into the frame that currently being rendered. The PS5 allows excatly that. Absolutely unique and revolutionary and thats why we will see brutaly pixelquality (ue5 demo as a first example)

This all aged well

Considering we knew about DirectStorage a long time ago, and Nvidia already had GPUDirect im suprised people didnt think DirectStorage was going to come to PC.
The faster the SSD the more we can drive compressed directly to GPU Memory.