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The Return of the King - Official Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 Thread
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
THANK THE LORD!!
The running in this game was pissing me off, in the way that i'd boot the ball so far the AI would have no problems taking away possesion, what Konami has done is that they've made the tap run button twice the default run, while holding the finesse button (L1) while running gives you a closer dribble (i.e the dribbling we all know and love), I assume L1 is for finesse shots and crosses now, because R2 doesn't look to be doing anything other than slow dribble but i'll have to check more.
Hope that solves your clunkiness complaints anyhow.
Also holding the run button while standing still makes you shield the ball, when the opposition is near.
The running in this game was pissing me off, in the way that i'd boot the ball so far the AI would have no problems taking away possesion, what Konami has done is that they've made the tap run button twice the default run, while holding the finesse button (L1) while running gives you a closer dribble (i.e the dribbling we all know and love), I assume L1 is for finesse shots and crosses now, because R2 doesn't look to be doing anything other than slow dribble but i'll have to check more.
Hope that solves your clunkiness complaints anyhow.
Also holding the run button while standing still makes you shield the ball, when the opposition is near.
I'm not sure if L1 + R1 makes much of a difference now that I've done it more, but I can't stop doing it now, I've started to beat dfenders since I started doing it. 
However you do kick the ball a smaller distance to make away space for a shot, that i'm pretty certain of.
Bla try pressing the run button 3 times.
However you do kick the ball a smaller distance to make away space for a shot, that i'm pretty certain of.
Bla try pressing the run button 3 times.
Damn, this game needs the YouTube feature ASAP!
just made this video of a goal:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=9jAPAkg7l8A
shit, the quality sucks :lol
just made this video of a goal:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=9jAPAkg7l8A
shit, the quality sucks :lol
This is kind of what I was thinking when I was playing the demo.. but I'm reserved to see if the full game will actually do something about it or not.TheDrowningMan said:
It's quite funny, ironic and a little sad to see that FIFA and PES have changed roles completely.
Wow on the PS3 version at least the framerate is absolutely rock solid. I've never seen it dip, judder or tear once, even on wide came. 100% improvement on pes2008. Props to Konami for sorting this out cause it really makes a difference and it feels very polished.
Loving the new ball physics and shooting..slower pace is very welcome as well, definitely plays a more considered game of football now. In terms of performance it's much better than the Fifa 09 demo, and i'm not expecting a multiplat EA game to have a flawless framerate either.
Graphics haven't improved a great deal. The feeling i'm getting is this is what pes2008 should have been and that next yrs effort will be based on a new engine. Fifa09 for all its flash still feels too floaty for my liking.
Loving the new ball physics and shooting..slower pace is very welcome as well, definitely plays a more considered game of football now. In terms of performance it's much better than the Fifa 09 demo, and i'm not expecting a multiplat EA game to have a flawless framerate either.
Graphics haven't improved a great deal. The feeling i'm getting is this is what pes2008 should have been and that next yrs effort will be based on a new engine. Fifa09 for all its flash still feels too floaty for my liking.
I suppose I will go buy FIFA today at the tesco deal, but I am by no way enamoured by FIFA like some people.
Not that I am convinced the king has returned, I am alarmed that I'm already playing at highest difficulty and pretty much killing teams (although scoring is harder and I AM playing as Man Utd)
Some things I am really pleased with:
Off the ball movement - so much better than PES 08. Through balls during counter attacks are much better now, where your guy used to stand still or run into defenders, he now attempts to run beyond the defenders and tries to time his run. It feel realistic: fluid, exciting, a race towards goal. Is it overpowered? I don't think so, defenders have shown a good ability to get back and make last ditch blocks and tackles and the passes aren't necessarily going to be perfect each time. This is something you see quite often in football so its good that its possible.
AI playing good football - I've seen the AI do some really cool things, a cross met with an awesome volley, a cheeky little through ball over my defender's heads, some patient passing around midfield. Importantly I never felt helpless. If they did something good, I didnt feel cheated. In PES 08 I often felt like I knew what was going to happen but my player physically couldn't keep up to stop it. In FIFA its just too clunky and difficult to manouvre that by the time a team scores I'm too bored to bother running through what feels like mud to defend.
Shooting - new shooting mechanics, really nice. The ball pings as it should, I like how its harder and less predictable. I hated old ISS games where pinpoint shooting was countered by invincible goalkeepers. The balance between how good the keepers are vs how good your shot is is nice.
Dribbling. After playing the shit that was FIFA, dribbling here is so much better. Wingers and fullbacks can jostle down the wing, midfielders can make space for themselves, strikers can turn defenders and on the flip side, my defenders can keep up.
bottom line, I can achieve the things I imagine, I'm empowered to paint pretty patterns on the pitch and its up to the defenders to stop me - and they can! and again, the AI plays good football and its up to me to stop them - and I can.
Excellent. If nothing else, be a legend mode sounds awesome and multiplayer will rock hard.
People saying its arcadey - schoolboy football is arcadey then? end to end, frantic stuff. Thats how football is played when you go to your local park. Thats how the foundation of the sport is.
Slowing the game down should not be something thats enforced on you, it should be something you earn by getting good at the game. I think its twisted that FIFA is slow by default and its only the good players who can speed it up. thats just anti-football.
Not that I am convinced the king has returned, I am alarmed that I'm already playing at highest difficulty and pretty much killing teams (although scoring is harder and I AM playing as Man Utd
) Some things I am really pleased with:
Off the ball movement - so much better than PES 08. Through balls during counter attacks are much better now, where your guy used to stand still or run into defenders, he now attempts to run beyond the defenders and tries to time his run. It feel realistic: fluid, exciting, a race towards goal. Is it overpowered? I don't think so, defenders have shown a good ability to get back and make last ditch blocks and tackles and the passes aren't necessarily going to be perfect each time. This is something you see quite often in football so its good that its possible.
AI playing good football - I've seen the AI do some really cool things, a cross met with an awesome volley, a cheeky little through ball over my defender's heads, some patient passing around midfield. Importantly I never felt helpless. If they did something good, I didnt feel cheated. In PES 08 I often felt like I knew what was going to happen but my player physically couldn't keep up to stop it. In FIFA its just too clunky and difficult to manouvre that by the time a team scores I'm too bored to bother running through what feels like mud to defend.
Shooting - new shooting mechanics, really nice. The ball pings as it should, I like how its harder and less predictable. I hated old ISS games where pinpoint shooting was countered by invincible goalkeepers. The balance between how good the keepers are vs how good your shot is is nice.
Dribbling. After playing the shit that was FIFA, dribbling here is so much better. Wingers and fullbacks can jostle down the wing, midfielders can make space for themselves, strikers can turn defenders and on the flip side, my defenders can keep up.
bottom line, I can achieve the things I imagine, I'm empowered to paint pretty patterns on the pitch and its up to the defenders to stop me - and they can! and again, the AI plays good football and its up to me to stop them - and I can.
Excellent. If nothing else, be a legend mode sounds awesome and multiplayer will rock hard.
People saying its arcadey - schoolboy football is arcadey then? end to end, frantic stuff. Thats how football is played when you go to your local park. Thats how the foundation of the sport is.
Slowing the game down should not be something thats enforced on you, it should be something you earn by getting good at the game. I think its twisted that FIFA is slow by default and its only the good players who can speed it up. thats just anti-football.
Gamecocks625
Member
Amazon has it for $46.99 with free shipping. I assume it is only for a limited time. Not a bad deal for us in the States.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DTSW2K/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DTSW2K/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I've got mixed feelings about the demo.
It feels quite sluggish and I personally think the players have too much weight on them. Maybe they've slowed down the game a bit too much. I haven't played the PS3 version of PES2008, but it seemed far better on the PS2 version. The shooting is also a bit, well off, imo. From PES5 onwards on the PS2, the shooting mechanics were brilliant. Now they seem very weird and I don't like them.
The game seemed to be far more responsive on the PS2 and I'm disappointed to see this isn't the case with the PS3 version. Still, it's way better than FIFA 09, which is boring to play and plays the game at a snail's pace.
It feels quite sluggish and I personally think the players have too much weight on them. Maybe they've slowed down the game a bit too much. I haven't played the PS3 version of PES2008, but it seemed far better on the PS2 version. The shooting is also a bit, well off, imo. From PES5 onwards on the PS2, the shooting mechanics were brilliant. Now they seem very weird and I don't like them.
The game seemed to be far more responsive on the PS2 and I'm disappointed to see this isn't the case with the PS3 version. Still, it's way better than FIFA 09, which is boring to play and plays the game at a snail's pace.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Blablurn said:
Man i really hope so. Last 2 versions online was so shitty.
Or were u being sarcastic?
Gamecocks625
Member
Blablurn said:
Since FIFA comes out in two weeks here in the States, I'll give it a shot. Pro Evo won't come out until November 11th, so I'll have time to decide whether or not I'll keep FIFA or sell it towards Pro Evo.
And here are my impressions. Honestly, PES 2009 is a step backwards in many ways.
The animation is really lacking. It's not due to the number of animations, but rather with the way animations are strung together. Alot of the time players will be stuck in a pose and float in motion for a while until the next animation kicks in. Even 2008 was better in this respect.
Slower speed is nice and all, but the rush of fast break is totally gone in 2009. In the previous version, counter attacking felt like counter attacking. That feeling is completely gone in 2009. In fact, the game is overall a bit too slow. This is also part of why the game lost much of its fluidity of the past iterations.
Ball physics is better for the most part, except shooting. For some reason the ball feels like it's a huge piece of weight when you are shooting. People complained that the ball moves too fast when shooting in 2008, but I think it feels right for the most part. Now the ball always kind of float into the goal in slow motion, with the goalie floating through the air in slow motion and not making contact with it.
I also noticed players not moving during throw ins. What is up with that? And the sound is horrible in the demo. I thought my PS3 was broken when the demo was booting up. It also seems like catch up defenders are back. Even if you have a break away, defenders will close in pretty much right away even if you are at full sprint with a fast player.
I do have to say though, that the new ball physics really add alot to the game (not counting shooting). Tackling does not always result in the ball sticking to the defender's feet like in 2008. It bounces off in different directions depending on the direction of the tackle. Passing, lobs, air trajectory, all have a very realistic feel to it. This makes freekicks outside of the box much more interesting unlike 2008.
The game also got a massive graphical upgrade imo, even though it's not up to the standard of FIFA, but player details and faces are much much better this time around. They look amazing in certain shots, but the weird lighting and plastic look of the players sometimes make the game look like crap.
Special note to the improved AI. Sure I still beat the crap out of them on top player level, but at least the AI doesn't charge you constantly and will actually stay in front of you trying to keep a good defensive line. It also feels more realistic that not all players have amazing dribble skill just cause the AI is controlling it. This change means alot to the realism of the game during play.
In the end, I'm pretty disappointed with the PES 09 demo. It's still more fun to me compared to FIFA, but this is unfortunately a let down in my opinion. Like what others have said before, 2009 lost much of the fluidity of the PS2 games, and even the fluidity of next gen PES 2008. Konami concentrated on the wrong part of the game this time.
I still need to get my football fix though...
For those who don't care to read all of the post... It seems like Seabass took the fan's reaction to 2008 to heart. What 2008 did right is what 2009 does wrong, and what 2008 does wrong, 2009 does right. The game took a complete 180.
The animation is really lacking. It's not due to the number of animations, but rather with the way animations are strung together. Alot of the time players will be stuck in a pose and float in motion for a while until the next animation kicks in. Even 2008 was better in this respect.
Slower speed is nice and all, but the rush of fast break is totally gone in 2009. In the previous version, counter attacking felt like counter attacking. That feeling is completely gone in 2009. In fact, the game is overall a bit too slow. This is also part of why the game lost much of its fluidity of the past iterations.
Ball physics is better for the most part, except shooting. For some reason the ball feels like it's a huge piece of weight when you are shooting. People complained that the ball moves too fast when shooting in 2008, but I think it feels right for the most part. Now the ball always kind of float into the goal in slow motion, with the goalie floating through the air in slow motion and not making contact with it.
I also noticed players not moving during throw ins. What is up with that? And the sound is horrible in the demo. I thought my PS3 was broken when the demo was booting up. It also seems like catch up defenders are back. Even if you have a break away, defenders will close in pretty much right away even if you are at full sprint with a fast player.
I do have to say though, that the new ball physics really add alot to the game (not counting shooting). Tackling does not always result in the ball sticking to the defender's feet like in 2008. It bounces off in different directions depending on the direction of the tackle. Passing, lobs, air trajectory, all have a very realistic feel to it. This makes freekicks outside of the box much more interesting unlike 2008.
The game also got a massive graphical upgrade imo, even though it's not up to the standard of FIFA, but player details and faces are much much better this time around. They look amazing in certain shots, but the weird lighting and plastic look of the players sometimes make the game look like crap.
Special note to the improved AI. Sure I still beat the crap out of them on top player level, but at least the AI doesn't charge you constantly and will actually stay in front of you trying to keep a good defensive line. It also feels more realistic that not all players have amazing dribble skill just cause the AI is controlling it. This change means alot to the realism of the game during play.
In the end, I'm pretty disappointed with the PES 09 demo. It's still more fun to me compared to FIFA, but this is unfortunately a let down in my opinion. Like what others have said before, 2009 lost much of the fluidity of the PS2 games, and even the fluidity of next gen PES 2008. Konami concentrated on the wrong part of the game this time.
I still need to get my football fix though...
For those who don't care to read all of the post... It seems like Seabass took the fan's reaction to 2008 to heart. What 2008 did right is what 2009 does wrong, and what 2008 does wrong, 2009 does right. The game took a complete 180.
Although the visuals on the wide camera angle are not really pushing the envelope, I think the replays and the close up shots are pretty impressive. It definitely does reminded me of the PS2 games, only in HD though.
With the frame rate now in check, the game is what it is and that's PES. It's fun and just feels right. I have to play more, but I don't think I'll be upset in the least bit with the final game.
With the frame rate now in check, the game is what it is and that's PES. It's fun and just feels right. I have to play more, but I don't think I'll be upset in the least bit with the final game.
Srider said:
I like what I read here, but have to disagree about the fluidity, maybe its cos I just got off playing FIFA - to the extent I was pushing wrong buttons for awhile depsite a decade of PES playing.
for me, the moment I was like "this game beats PES 08" was counter attacking. In previous PES cuonters would often break down cos your stupid striker just stood still or jogged by his marker, couldn't really pass to him properly.
this time, the striker is pulling the defender in all different directions, and running towards the goal, the opposite winger is bursting forward and the best thing is I can pick my pass and achieve it. I have no clue how I'd choose between the two players in FIFA.
It reminded me of a typical counter attack by Rooney and Ronaldo. what impressed me even more is I passed to Tevez bursting through the middle and the pass went a little wide and it gave the defender the chance to slide in and block my shot. that right there was a perfect snapshot of fluid, exciting and intuitive football.
If you can imagine it, you can do it - but that doesn't mean the defender won't stop you. Thats what footballs all about imo. I think PES 09 will be cool, especially in multiplayer. It feels more balanced now between attack and defence and that was all that was really wrong with previous versions after all.
Shooting is weird yes but I welcome something new I need to master. Be a Legend mode looks really fun.
I'm guessing the reason why you feel that counter attacking is better in PES 2009 is due to the new AI defense. In 2008, the AI will magically know the best passing lane to your other strikers, and stick up right next to you effectively cutting off both your passes or your dribble path.
In 2009, the AI is changed so that the defenders are focused on the ball dribbler, which is what defenders actually do in real life. This change alone will give you that feeling "my strikers are getting into position."
In that sense, I agree the counter attacking game is better. However, I think the game is slowed down way too much, and really destroys the feeling of breakaways. Adding on top of how chasing defenders magically speed up if you break away from them, the same sense of speed from 2008 is gone.
I don't know, maybe once I play master league and their stats get better from growth things will be more fun. Hopefully.
In 2009, the AI is changed so that the defenders are focused on the ball dribbler, which is what defenders actually do in real life. This change alone will give you that feeling "my strikers are getting into position."
In that sense, I agree the counter attacking game is better. However, I think the game is slowed down way too much, and really destroys the feeling of breakaways. Adding on top of how chasing defenders magically speed up if you break away from them, the same sense of speed from 2008 is gone.
I don't know, maybe once I play master league and their stats get better from growth things will be more fun. Hopefully.
Gamecocks625
Member
kaizoku said:
Interesting thoughts. I'll have to pay more attention to some of these things when I'm able to fire up the demo again.
kobashi100
Banned
I am not convince about BAL mode as previews have already said that the A.I is really bad in it just like it was in last years J-league PS2 game.
Honestly the Fantasista/Become a Legend BAL last years game was awful. The A.I are really dumb. If you dont create the chances then nothing happens.
Honestly the Fantasista/Become a Legend BAL last years game was awful. The A.I are really dumb. If you dont create the chances then nothing happens.
The only thing that PES really needs are new animations, in that department FIFA is still ahead, but the overall polish and feeling of PES are unmatched.
PES2009 is a step to the right direction, but I really hope Konami can bring us a new graphics engine with new animations, it would really be the return of the king.
PES2009 is a step to the right direction, but I really hope Konami can bring us a new graphics engine with new animations, it would really be the return of the king.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Kikujiro said:
Hu? I think that the animations are the point where PES clearly wins. I mean Fifa doesn't even have an animation of a heel kick.
kobashi100
Banned
Graf Nudu said:
Seriously the animations in FIFA are miles ahead. Anyone with eyesight can see that..
Gamecocks625
Member
Kikujiro said:
Yup. That should be the main focus for next year. Dang, it should have been the focus the THIS year!
kobashi100 said:
Exactly. We are in a bizarro world where the everything has been flipped around.
Kabuki Waq
Member
anyword on the NA demo?
Gamecocks625
Member
Gamecocks625
Member
-viper- said:
I only created it for the Pro Evo demo. Don't need it for anything else.
Things they improved:
- It's a physical game, look at this video made by a friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn44F_d-ixs
Keane is faster, but Ferdinand first slows him down and then makes a perfect tackle.
- The shoots are improved, it's harder to take a good shoot, but when you hit the ball right you feel the satisfatcion.
Nice trick by Tevez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GahR8AChxFI
Oh and the game pace is perfect.
- It's a physical game, look at this video made by a friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn44F_d-ixs
Keane is faster, but Ferdinand first slows him down and then makes a perfect tackle.
- The shoots are improved, it's harder to take a good shoot, but when you hit the ball right you feel the satisfatcion.
Nice trick by Tevez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GahR8AChxFI
Oh and the game pace is perfect.
Gamecocks625
Member
F#A#Oo said:
Not sure. The FIFA PS3 demo doesn't represent the quality of the retail copy, so I would imagine the retail version of PES will likely be a bit better.
Here's a pretty good side by bside video of FIFA and PES.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/273461.html
Based on that - they look very similar in terms of animations.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/273461.html
Based on that - they look very similar in terms of animations.
Gamecocks625
Member
Beatbox said:
I was just looking at a HD video of PES6 for the 360, and it actually looks a ton better than PES 2009. The animations have really gone downhill since then.
Nice video, by the way.
I have no doubt that the demo is from an older build.
No commentary, placeholder sounds, wrong roster/formation are all signs pointing to the demo not being up to date.
Despite the criticisms that I've laid out earlier, I still think PES09 is the better game of the two.
Passing is definitely not automatic and spot on like people have said earlier. If you don't do manual R3 stick pass, there will be alot of instances where your player will pass the ball in an off angle due to factors such as pressure/field of vision/receiver's current movement/position.
The way PES09 handles manual passing control is way beyond how FIFA does it. PES09's system allows you do to instant reactionary passing in tight situations with X button pass (which realistically doesn't always give the best result), but also gives you the freedom of full direction and power control in passing with R3 stick. The game doesn't have that permanent laggy feel of FIFA during every pass, and at the same time allows you to do take chances and do last minute playmaking since you aren't required to anticipate 100% of the time like in FIFA.
If they adjust the shooting, and the speed of the game a little bit, this will be the perfect football game. As it stands though, I still think PES09 stands as the best football game even with the flaws currently in the demo.
No commentary, placeholder sounds, wrong roster/formation are all signs pointing to the demo not being up to date.
Despite the criticisms that I've laid out earlier, I still think PES09 is the better game of the two.
Passing is definitely not automatic and spot on like people have said earlier. If you don't do manual R3 stick pass, there will be alot of instances where your player will pass the ball in an off angle due to factors such as pressure/field of vision/receiver's current movement/position.
The way PES09 handles manual passing control is way beyond how FIFA does it. PES09's system allows you do to instant reactionary passing in tight situations with X button pass (which realistically doesn't always give the best result), but also gives you the freedom of full direction and power control in passing with R3 stick. The game doesn't have that permanent laggy feel of FIFA during every pass, and at the same time allows you to do take chances and do last minute playmaking since you aren't required to anticipate 100% of the time like in FIFA.
If they adjust the shooting, and the speed of the game a little bit, this will be the perfect football game. As it stands though, I still think PES09 stands as the best football game even with the flaws currently in the demo.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
found this on grcade :lol
he doesn't even touch the ball, then you see pro's limited animation system at work. it's about time they stepped into the new generation.
he doesn't even touch the ball, then you see pro's limited animation system at work. it's about time they stepped into the new generation.