Support NeoGAF

[encephalon]

You can't cut out political discussion. Politics are life. Games are political. Film is political. Books are political. The world we live in is political.

 

[tell yourself.]

Can someone please let me know if there's an archive of the j-pop music general. I got into the j-indie independent scene because of that thread, i didn't archive any of it when the admins/mods removed the off topic community threads. Please keep this thread archived, it's an incredible curation resource and i didn't have the time to go through all the music that was posted.

If anyone who posted in that community thread or anyone with influence here knows what to do please let me know.

 

[Calion]

I've seen the thread, but again another forum isn't exactly credible, more like a gossip corner.

What other forum? Kotaku references this same fucking story. Tyler has a history of this shit and it’s just “gossip” to you.

 

[Jarrod38]

It's going to be a long night for the mods.

 

[rucury]

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

I can find gamergate disgusting and still think the OT forum was borderline extremist. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive and I'd bet a lot of people fall in the same area of the spectrum.

I don’t doubt that there were plenty of extremist instances. We are sort of living in an “extremist” era, where people are more politically divided than ever. Removing OT because “politics” is not going to change that. It will just bleed over to Gaming side. Look no further than this year’s Wolfenstein to sort of get an idea for whats in store.

You can't cut out political discussion. Politics are life. Games are political. Film is political. Books are political. The world we live in is political.

That is a fact.

It’s time to pick a side. The lines are beign drawn whether you like it or not. Indecision will mean others will decide for you. I myself am on the side opposite Trump and Trump supporters. You gotta make your own choice.

 

[prag16]

hi Junior member. Can you explain to me how off topic was toxic?

If you even need to ask that, then you are part of the problem.

 

[pixelation]

it never will

gaf will always be a place where racial minorities, women, and the lgbt community have their humanity protected

if this bothers you i suggest you find another place to post

I sure hope so... but the responses i have seen here have me thinking otherwise.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

it never will

gaf will always be a place where racial minorities, women, and the lgbt community have their humanity protected

if this bothers you i suggest you find another place to post

I actually doubt that it will. At least a part of said minorities are gone now.

 

[Floyd]

Glad the sites back. Hope it gets back to its former glory. By that i mean like it was back in the 00s. Those were the days.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Actually what I'm saying is this place would be better without people like you who instantly label and dismiss anyone who doesn't fall in line with your bullshit.

This place would be better off without people who think respecting the concerns of minorities is 'bullshit'.

And by this place, I DO mean the planet Earth.

 

[BaasRed]

Coward.

 

[RawNuts]

I want to give Tyler the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard to given previous allegations that I wasn't even aware of until recently.

I likely won't be bothering with the site in the future though unless he steps down and has nothing to do with it anymore.

The solution to OT seems odd. Having no political discussion removes a big motivating factor of why I came here. I'm left-leaning as all hell, but some of the members were just waaaay out of hand and really ruined many topics while the mods didn't do much about it. I would rather see a more open approach to political issues and civilized debate. I don't want to post on an echo chamber.


It's refreshing to see a lot of familiar members speaking their minds here though.

 

[Kacho]

If you even need to ask that, then you are part of the problem.

They really don't get it. It's sad.

 

[ElyrionX]

I am a long time member here and this site is no longer what it used to be, especially the OT. It’s filled with an endless amount of Trump threads which are tiring and predictable. There’s just no fun allowed anymore. Bans happen so quickly and so inexplicably, it’s utterly ridiculous.

In the early days, this site was a source of intelligent and open discussions where informed opinions were allowed to flourish. But the forum, especially the OT, has definitely turned into an echo chamber in the last two to three years.

I’ve never been banned for my political views or anything like that so you can’t say I am speaking from a source of bitterness. It’s just a general observation.

 

[Icelandic_Jazz]

I can't support Evilore or the flimsy response given.

Just some quick shoutouts to the awesome people and communities on here if GAF doesn't survive:

The Smash Bros community. Going all the way back to the Dojo for Brawl I loved checking in to see the hype and meltdowns.

The How to Invest in Retirement frequenters. Piecake, tokkun, Randolph, GhaleonEB, and more I'm probably forgetting. GAF actually taught me extremely useful financial information that helped me out a ton in life. If you see this, thanks.

The smaller, but still awesome community for rhythm games like IIDX and DDR.

The fifa glitches thread.

SunhiLegend and all the other great gif creators here.

The indie game community and those who put the spotlight on underappreciated and obscure gems.

The mental health community and those who helped people struggling with depression and anxiety.


After these events I don't think I'll be sticking around, I don't know yet. But I appreciate all the good people here on NeoGaf.

 

[ec0ec0]

Well, those are all just allegations.

In most countries on this planet, people are innocent until proven guilty. Meaning by a court, not by public emotional reactions.

Even if you think we have the right to be judge, jury and executioner, then at least we have to prove his guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is an ethical stance, not only a legal one. If we don't know all the facts then we can't (shouldn't) pass judgements.

It's digusting how we let emotions take control of us like this and we start judging so quickly before we know the actual factual truth.

Apparently, a "trial by internet" works the exact opposite way.

Also, on a seperate note, this sounds odd to me:

According to Kotaku, the accuser was so traumatized that not only has she "continued her friendship" with him...but also "had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015."

Yeah, sounds like an extremely traumatic experience indeed

Yeah, already commented on this.

However, everyone made a judjement, without waiting for any aditional info on their relationship to come out.

 

[Aeriscloud]

We are well beyond a gaming forum at this point, and Gaming side has at times been far more political than off topic.

 

[tr00per]

Wow I somehow hadn't heard about any of this. All I knew was gaf was down. I guess I have some research to do.

 

[Aurongel]

I can fully understand (and support) why GAF positioned itself clearly and hard on the opposing side to Gamergate. But over time, and especially during the election cycle, this went from removing toxic individuals to banning anyone with an option that deviated from the ideological purity test of OT power user and certain mods. The nadir was certainly related to Hillary after she's won the Primaries. If you said or thought anything negative about the woman, you were automatically a pro-Trump, misogynist, racist, Alt-Right, Gamergater Nazi.

GAF without OT or without political discussion is a good idea. You can't have political discussion if you take a harsh stance against all but a narrow idealogical viewpoint. It just leads to an every narrowing and ever more hostile echo chamber, which 2016-2017 GAF certainly had become whenever topics turned to politics.

How do we then reconcile the inevitable crossover between the gaming topics and the politics involving them?

For example, discussing something like Far Cry 4 while avoiding any discussion about its statements on right wing militants is doing a massive, massive disservice to that game and neutering discussion of its artistic merits.

Games are politics are games - at least to a certain degree. How do we reconcile this fact and find the balance?

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

No proof... and people are ready to destroy the community that took years to build, crazy.

The internet has become such a sad place.

My heart goes out to the true vitctims that have been sexually abused. However, destroying another person off a random post without clear proof is complete insanity.

In fact the actions taken on this forum reveals what was already there.....

 

[gogosox82]

You cannot be fucking serious with this statement. I took took you 5 days (you knew about this on Wednesday) to come up with what amounts to "I didn't do it". And doing interviews and calling the victim crazy or mentally ill is just fucked beyond belief. Take some fucking responsibility for your actions. Don't give me this "it was consensual" nonsense. Who gets into a shower with someone who is drunk and throwing up all over the place? Someone who is looking to take advantage of said person and that's exactly what you tried to do. Shutting down OT with all of those communities is just bullshit. That's not what made OT toxic. Its you and the way you moderated the site. Having a set of rules for a certain set of people and not having them be enforced equally to everyone is the issue and that starts with you. Until you take responsibility, the site can't ever be the same. If you gave a shit about the community, you would step down and give the site to someone who isn't a piece of shit.

 

[Memento]

The masks surely are falling off. How did all of these garbage human beings manage to hold on to their true feelings for so long?

This place will just become another manbaby-filled alt-right hell like all of the others now. Good riddance.

This is so sad :/

Where are you going to, mate?

 

[newsguy]

And lest we forget, said landlord also literally went with the "bitch is crazy" defense, like every rapist and abuser that ever spoke to defend himself.

And how many times was the bitch crazy? I’m willing to bet plenty. Not saying that’s the case here, but I’m not ignorant and I don’t assume guilt before seeing all facts.

 

[CitizenCope]

You can't cut out political discussion. Politics are life. Games are political. Film is political. Books are political. The world we live in is political.

Sure he can and I hope he does.

 

[Balls]

So...was the girl at least hot?

 

[double jump]

You can't cut out political discussion. Politics are life. Games are political. Film is political. Books are political. The world we live in is political.

Yeah I seriously hope that the current stance on political topics is changed once OT comes back.

Can I please get the quote beside my avatar erased in the meantime ?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

If this place can move past the leftist bullshit this forum could be awesome again

Not getting my hopes up

Lol @ gaf being leftist

 

[LQX]

it never will

gaf will always be a place where racial minorities, women, and the lgbt community have their humanity protected

if this bothers you i suggest you find another place to post

And this why I'm so conflicted. I have not been able to find a site like this one though I'm member of many other forums which I like. This site though more than any other fostered those communities.

 

[BaasRed]

No proof... and people are ready to destroy the community that took years to build, crazy.

The internet has become such a sad place.

My heart goes out to the true vitctims that have been sexually abused. However, destroying another person off a random post without clear proof is complete insanity.

In fact the actions taken on this forum reveals what was already there.....

He has a history for this shit.

 

[Ombra]

Good riddance to all the people throwing a fit and leaving, taking a random online post by an ex as fact. If this is where society is heading then I'm scared.

I literally can't wait. People feel so protected because they think moderation is gone forever. A lot of surprised bans when things get back to normal.

 

[Yukinari]

Remember the time when everyone went apeshit over Maximillian getting tongue twisted to say "nigger" on stream then profusely apologized and even dedicated a video to how sorry he was? Not to mention coming onto gaf personally to say sorry? More genuine that Evilore's response might i add.

But nah Max is still an asshole and Evilore is a great guy.

 

[ZeoVGM]

The garbage from off topic creeped into the gaming side as well and it took all the mods leaving for anybody to finally speak their mind about it.

Absolute nonsense.

I'm sorry you have a problem with people discussing important things though.

Edit: Unless I read this wrong? It's worded as if you're talking about "politics" as garbage.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

The masks surely are falling off. How did all of these garbage human beings manage to hold on to their true feelings for so long?

This place will just become another manbaby-filled alt-right hell like all of the others now. Good riddance.

If being alt right means not shouting rape from the rooftops and not automatically believing everything one side of such a serious situation says because of their gender then I guess there are a lot of alt-right people on this planet.

Often liked your input here, shame you're going all doom and gloom at this issue.

 

[Sibylus]

And how many times was the bitch crazy? I’m willing to bet plenty. Not saying that’s the case here, but I’m not ignorant and I don’t assume guilt before seeing all facts.

Give rapey his day in court in front of an impartial jury, we are agreed.

 

[Croatoan]

I’d like the people who agree with the OT changes to explain how one could dissect and talk about the new South Park season, for example, if politics and social issues are not allowed in discourse.

It seems unenforceable and stupid.

Laugh about the good jokes, cringe at the bad ones, talk about the story, talk about the gameplay, or you know talk vidya the way any well adjusted human being would among strangers and friends.

No screeching nessisary.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

The masks surely are falling off. How did all of these garbage human beings manage to hold on to their true feelings for so long?

This place will just become another manbaby-filled alt-right hell like all of the others now. Good riddance.

Huh... how weird seeing this written when you literally write for the site that hosts one of the most toxic and villest communities in Brazil.

I guess when you're paid it doesn't matter.

 

[Officerrob]

The new forum. Where a good portion of the community is headed off to.

Wrestling, Politics, NFL, NBA, etc. All those communities are going

 

[Mass_Pincup]

i'm a bit puzzled here. Seems like your saying that OT became to toxic because of politics taking to much space and being toxic?

Thing is, you're the one who pushed all of it though. Did you already forgot that time when you litteraly changed the logo of this forum in support of gay marriage?

Was it not an instance of politics taking too much space?

Seems obvious that you didn't really cared about this supposed toxicity in OT until it touched you and your bottom line.

Won't even acknoledge your "statement" about the ongoing allegations.

The masks surely are falling off. How did all of these garbage human beings manage to hold on to their true feelings for so long?

This place will just become another manbaby-filled alt-right hell like all of the others now. Good riddance.

Incredible how many people like that just stuck around for that long.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

it never will

gaf will always be a place where racial minorities, women, and the lgbt community have their humanity protected

if this bothers you i suggest you find another place to post

It's over dude.

You have people posting about how "SJWs" ruined gaf and are celebrating cause they leaving.

 

[hyp3rlink]

I was here for OT only; it was a great place to talk about variety of topic and being up-to-date with the latest news.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Well, I only hope to Neogaf stay out of all this thing. I know it's very difficult, but I'd like to see a Neogaf working as before.

I'm not here for Evilore or any specific user. I'm here for the users in general

 

[VichoCardenas]

We live in a society were wanting a little of "social justice" or having basic common decency is seen as something bad. What a misery.

It was fun while it lasted GAF. Have fun being the new home of gamergate edgelords and alt-righters alike. See you all on RestartEra, enjoy your "purge".

 

[SolidChamp]

All of this is really, really sad. In just 48+ hours...poof.

Looking at the front page, how are we ever going to find our way back to what it was?

I just can’t see it.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I know right?, that's what i am seeing.

"Male feminist" is being thrown around as a slur now. The real NeoGAF is gone.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

This whole ordeal reminds me so much of this:

Welcome to the NeoGAF lynch mob, where you are guilty until proven innocent, where relationships between humans are pure black and white and can never be ambiguous or misread, and where backing off when asked is akin to full-on rape.

Okay.

Yeah this is like one giant OT experience.

 

[MrToast]

What other forum? Kotaku references this same fucking story. Tyler has a history of this shit and it’s just “gossip” to you.

Kotaku has posted from very dodgy things in the past and likes to get clicks on click-bait news titles.

I mean from something like BBC, CNN etc.

 

[BaasRed]

So...was the girl at least hot?

Are you really doing this?

 

[RastaMentality]

Actually what I'm saying is this place would be better without people like you who instantly label and dismiss anyone who doesn't fall in line with your bullshit.

what? i did not label anyone

 

[Yukinari]

Absolute nonsense.

I'm sorry you have a problem with people discussing important things though.

Important things like overreacting that a former dev said "did you just assume my X" on reddit?

 

[Thores]

The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.

I'm really glad that this has been quoted on every page since it was posted. This is something that should continue until the right decisions are made.