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[Calion]

And lest we forget, said landlord also literally went with the "bitch is crazy" defense, like every rapist and abuser that ever spoke to defend himself.

It’s astounding. And people still don’t get why sexual assault victims don’t immediately come forward with allegations.

“This bitch is crazy”
“Why should I take her word?”
“She’s just wants attention”

It’s bingo’d back and forth.

 

[Kacho]

This place would be better off without people who think respecting the concerns of minorities is 'bullshit'.

And by this place, I DO mean the planet Earth.

Way to be dense and miss the point. Nothing I said implies that's minority options are bullshit, but your response is the perfect example of the bullshit I was referring to. Posters like you have plagued GAF and it's why this place is a joke.

 

[ViolentP]

 

[Femto.]

If this place can move past the leftist bullshit this forum could be awesome again

Not getting my hopes up

Lol those on the opposite end of the spectrum are here too. They just lurk and keep their abhorrent identities and ideologies a secret. This place is the wild west now.

 

[rucury]

They really don't get it. It's sad.

The only positive side to this whole ordeal is that folks are showing their true colors. Yours is a pasty brown.

 

[Glass Shark]

And how many times was the bitch crazy? I’m willing to bet plenty. Not saying that’s the case here, but I’m not ignorant and I don’t assume guilt before seeing all facts.

If posts like this are going to become the norm (and I have a feeling they will) then this place is well and truly fucked. Shit like this wouldn’t fly even a week ago.

 

[ramuh]

All of this is really, really sad. In just 48+ hours...poof.

Looking at the front page, how are we ever going to find our way back to what it was?

I just can’t see it.

It will happen. Time.. Always time.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Important things like overreacting that a former dev said "did you just assume my X" on reddit?

No idea what you're talking about there.

 

[Comrade Doggo]

The fact that someone posted that they wouldn't state their own opinion because of what I assume to be fear of getting banned about stating one's opinion is a pretty clear, and troubling, issue.

 

[onadesertedisland]

This hit the nail on the head. I never gave a damn about Off-Topic and largely stayed clear of the heated/politicized drama threads in gaming side, so you'd think I'd be one of the first to celebrate the thinning out of the forum to cater to my tastes. But instead, what the mishandling of this mess through the whole weekend showed me was that at any arbitrary point in time, those of us who just want to be here to talk about games can take an unannounced hit for some stupid private thing up at management that we didn't ask for and don't want anything to do with whatsoever. That's not a stable state of affairs. And while one of the great assets of GAF was always its institutional independence on the ownership side as a one-man show that couldn't be bought, the constantly hanging threat of losing entire communities overnight for absolutely nothing to do with us, and something totally out of our responsibility or control, just isn't a price worth paying.

It's not even about the allegations or conduct or harassment. It's about the breach of trust with the users who supply all the content to make this site what it is. And that has been an ongoing pattern.

Dude has lived quite nicely off of unpaid content and throws a hissy fit, deletes the whole thing, hides behind a non-statement, and invites in behavior that screams to women that they should not speak out about being assaulted, and well, gross.

 

[Novoitus]

Very disappointing that social and political issues will not longer be allowed. It was a place where we can have discussions without neonazis shitting the topic. There's a ton of people out there laughing that the "extreme/alt" left (in their terms) no longer have this forum.

I'll still stick around to see if NBA Gaf still exists, but man this is horrible news.

Very often the political topics pretty much became people using extreme hyperbole, saying "wow fucking disgusting, fuck this, what a piece of shit", then you'd see one or two posts that were like "hey this isn't so bad" and those posters got PILED on by everyone in the thread telling them they were wrong.

that wasn't really discussion man.

 

[ghostofsparta]

This whole ordeal reminds me so much of this:

Welcome to the NeoGAF lynch mob, where you are guilty until proven innocent, where relationships between humans are pure black and white and can never be ambiguous or misread, and where backing off when asked is akin to full-on rape.

Okay.

Did you catch the part where they did have sex at a later date? Walking into a shower naked on someone is not right, but he backed off when told and didn't try anything later. People are blowing this out of proportion

 

[Clipjoint]

I'm as liberal as it gets, and I certainly wouldn't be the first to defend Evilore, but let's not make the situation out to be more than it was. Tyler awkwardly misread a situation, but the internet is making it seem like he assaulted the poor girl. When a man and a woman are sharing a hotel room, and there's alcohol involved, and someone goes in the shower and leaves the door open - it's not out of the realm of possibility that a person could misread the signs and make a pass. What's important is that both sides agree that, when she made it clear she wasn't interested, he backed off and respected her wishes. That's the difference between consent and non-consent.

If every man (or woman) was ripped to shreds and had their careers ended because they misread some social signs, half of the country would be out of a job. It sounds like a misunderstanding that never escalated beyond that point. I don't see how anyone can equate this as a 'me too' sexual assault situation. Yes women need to be believed, but in her version of the story he made a mistake and backed off when she made that clear. That's all you can ask of someone in that situation.

This definitely feels like the spark that blew up a gas tank, but let's not make the spark out to be a forest fire. This is a real person's life we're talking about here. This is nothing close to a Harvey Weinstein situation.

 

[BPoole]

Lol @ gaf being leftist

Lol @ you thinking otherwise

 

[CEJames]

A shame Neogaf has such a bad reputation due to the Off Topic section but all I came here for WAS gaming discussions so I'm glad it's back for that.

 

[MsKrisp]

Bonds formed out of chaos

 

[Yukinari]

No idea what you're talking about there.

Alright how about the constant "Gamergate did this" excuses?

 

[Aurongel]

All of this is really, really sad. In just 48+ hours...poof.

Looking at the front page, how are we ever going to find our way back to what it was?

I just can’t see it.

This is how I feel in my heart. I just don't see the right people learning the right lessons from this.

And this why I'm so conflicted. I have not been able to find a site like this one though I'm member of many other forums which I like. This site though more than any other fostered those communities.

Waypoint.

 

[Ecotic]

The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.

A thousand times, thank you for this. The bolded part is exactly what needs to happen. This is about what's best for the community now, and this community needs to be placed under the care of impartial hands that can restore integrity and faith in the administration of this site while it is readied for sale away from Evilore, and into long-term ownership that has the community's best interests in mind. I'm sure the proceeds from a properly rehabilitated site will be adequate compensation for the loss of ownership.

I've been here for 12 years now and the fate of this community alone is what's important to me.

 

[Sibylus]

And how many times was the bitch crazy? I’m willing to bet plenty. Not saying that’s the case here, but I’m not ignorant and I don’t assume guilt before seeing all facts.

And PS. you're kind've a shit person to suggest mental illness is somehow a blank cheque for abusers to say they're clean.

 

[Rentahamster]

I hope you can sort out the Off Topic forum situation satisfactorily and expediently.

"Came for Gaming, stayed for Off Topic" is a far too frequent sentiment around here, so whatever incarnation OT comes back as, I hope it can still capture that same attraction.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Kotaku has posted from very dodgy things in the past and likes to get clicks on click-bait news titles.

I mean from something like BBC, CNN etc.

lol good fucking luck trying to find anything on a "legitimate" news outlet about what frankly amounts to a random gaming forum

 

[ZeoVGM]

And how many times was the bitch crazy? I’m willing to bet plenty. Not saying that’s the case here

You just said that's the case.

I’m willing to bet plenty.

Not saying that’s the case here

Like, you literally did.

 

[Astral Dog]

i just have to say i will miss LGBT GAF alot though they probably aren't here anymore, take care guys and gals thank you :'(

 

[rucury]

If posts like this are going to become the norm (and I have a feeling they will) then this place is well and truly fucked. Shit like this wouldn’t fly even a week ago.

I’ll give it some time and come back. If it still reeks of 4chan, I’ll shed a tear and move on.

 

[Zaventem]

"Male feminist" is being thrown around as a slur now. The real NeoGAF is gone.

Male feminist isn't a slur but you even have women who are against that term, do a quick google search. Tons of so-called male feminist that get propped up by women are often the same ones to take advantage of that title and abuse that power.

 

[D4Danger]

man, the amount of people defending this because of your statement downplaying it is appalling.

if you showed just the tiniest bit of humility in this situation gaf probably could carried on and worked on some policy changes to smarten up but as is all you've done is enable the absolute worst this community have to offer and driven out some really good people.

 

[HowZatOZ]

This whole ordeal reminds me so much of this:

Welcome to the NeoGAF lynch mob, where you are guilty until proven innocent, where relationships between humans are pure black and white and can never be ambiguous or misread, and where backing off when asked is akin to full-on rape.

Okay.

Except the fact that there is an amounting degree of evidence that this isn't Tyler's first sexual act towards women and that he is truly a piece of shit. Go search Amir0x and see just how fucking disgusting he is.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

I still love you, man!

On the assumption you really didn't do it, that is

 

[Brazil]

Huh... how weird seeing this written when you literally write for the site that hosts one of the most toxic and villest communities in Brazil.

I guess when you're paid it doesn't matter.

I have literally no connection to anything that happens in those boards, and my work title is in no way related to the moderation of such boards. So, well, whatever.

 

[Officerrob]

And this why I'm so conflicted. I have not been able to find a site like this one though I'm member of many other forums which I like. This site though more than any other fostered those communities.

Take a look at a lot of the comments from those who are staying, those days are over

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Lol @ you thinking otherwise

Conflating liberalis and moderates with leftists

Thinking that gaf doesn't have it's fair share of right wing nuts. You're delusional.

 

[Nydius]

Screw it, if I'm perma'd for speaking my piece, so be it.

There is irony in the fact that EviLore's own statement and deflection posts like the one floating around about "having all the facts" would have, prior to the shit hitting the fan, been decried as victim blaming/shaming and could have gotten us regular posters suspended or banned. There were people who got suspended for less in various discussions of sexual assault topics in OT. Not to mention arguing that everyone should wait for "all the facts" is the epitome of GAF hypocrisy, especially since there have been far too many times GAF didn't wait for "all the facts" before going all in on some topic of outrage (both gaming side and off-topic side).

Do you think anyone in the gaming industry is going to give GAF any credibility after these incidents (including both EviLore incidents and the Amir0x case)? You think female gamers are ever going to come back to this site? You think the ol' Press Sneak Fuck is going to frequent this place anymore or other gaming press will name drop GAF as a source now? The community is irreparably fractured and as long as EviLore is at the helm of NeoGAF the site will always have a dark cloud of controversy hanging over it.

PR 101: Perception, not truth, is reality.

 

[Uno Venova]

Lol @ you thinking otherwise

Who did you vote for?

 

[Balls]

Are you really doing this?

Forgive me senpai. I am only human.

 

[Aeriscloud]

i just have to say i will miss LGBT GAF alot though they probably aren't here anymore, take care guys and gals thank you :'(

Our entire community is destroyed because of the destruction of off topic.

 

[Slowdive]

Fuck off Evilore

 

[johnFkennedy]

This whole ordeal reminds me so much of this:

Welcome to the NeoGAF lynch mob, where you are guilty until proven innocent, where relationships between humans are pure black and white and can never be ambiguous or misread, and where backing off when asked is akin to full-on rape.

Okay.

Agree completely.

I don't condone sexual misconduct, but we don't have enough context here to know one way or the other what really happened. If it turns out that Evilore is as sleazy as these accusations make him out to be then I'll gladly stop visiting the site, but a deleted Facebook post isn't enough for me to start burning bridges.

Having said that, the situation itself could have been handled better. It should not have taken this long to make a statement.

 

[Oxn]

If posts like this are going to become the norm (and I have a feeling they will) then this place is well and truly fucked. Shit like this wouldn’t fly even a week ago.

Its great isnt it?

 

[FTF]

The masks surely are falling off. How did all of these garbage human beings manage to hold on to their true feelings for so long?

This place will just become another manbaby-filled alt-right hell like all of the others now. Good riddance.

...yup, this is what I'm afraid of the most. I'll give it some time, but I'm not hopeful in the Gaf I knew and loved ever returning.

 

[Jigolo]

"Male feminist" is being thrown around as a slur now. The real NeoGAF is gone.

See this is just crazy. 1 idiot writes this and you try to condemn a whole website. How the fuck is this logical? Lots of recent OT members were like this. I just don't understand

 

[Lucky Seven]

Well, those are all just allegations.

In most countries on this planet, people are innocent until proven guilty. Meaning by a court, not by public emotional reactions.

Even if you think we have the right to be judge, jury and executioner, then at least we have to prove his guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is an ethical stance, not only a legal one. If we don't know all the facts then we can't (shouldn't) pass judgements.

It's digusting how we let emotions take control of us like this and we start judging so quickly before we know the actual factual truth.

Also, on a seperate note, this sounds odd to me:

According to Kotaku, the accuser was so traumatized that not only has she "continued her friendship" with him...but also "had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015."

Yeah, sounds like an extremely traumatic experience indeed.

Yes, nobody is forgetting this. The issue is not so much with her, but again, on Tyler and whether or not he did it.

Sadly, the burden of proof is on the victim. It's hard for women who were sexually assaulted to come out about their experiences, and afterwards it's an uphill battle as you can see. Tyler is still innocent, can easily dismiss the claim, and time has not made her case easier.

 

[MrToast]

lol good fucking luck trying to find anything on a "legitimate" news outlet about what frankly amounts to a random gaming forum

Random? It's one of the most well known.

 

[mooooose]

The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.

THIS. Quoted for truth. Listen to this man. Especially the bolded.

 

[TC McQueen]

Honestly, I don't think doubling down on the lack of moderation transparency is going to help in the long run. How about actually coming up with better moderation guidelines, a less absurd system of punishments than junioring or flat out banning, holding mods accountable when they fuck up, and maybe make an appeals system to handle situations where questionable decisions were made?

 

[Kevin]

I hope the off topic forums are not down for too long. There was still a lot of good discussion to be had on tv shows and such and was my most used area on the forums.

 

[Iorv3th]

People were angry about the sexual abuse allegations. People are leaving because of how he's handled it. His mistake happened on Saturday night when he didn't just own up to being a drunk horny dipshit and saying sorry. He instead called her a psycho pretty much.

I was out of town until today and when I had gone to check the forums noticed they were down. I thought they went down just because of the allegations and peoples response to that.

 

[MrCookiepants]

You know, Tyler...

Whether or not these allegations are false as you claim, everything that's transpired over the last few days is entirely YOUR FAULT and you need to own up to it.

Your heavy-handed, heavily biased moderation of the forum. Your ass grab brag post and everything else you've said or done over the years that painted you as a total dick. The way you handled the Amir0x thing. The way you handled/are handling THIS mess, The way you handle (or don't handle) any kind of criticism.

All of this culminated into the situation you find yourself in now. Think about how you got here. Why were your moderators so quick to desert you? Why were your users so ready to condemn you? Take responsibility for your failures and grow. Don't repeat past mistakes.

THIS IS NOT AN ACCOUNT SUICIDE. I LOVE GAF.

 

[Yukinari]

Random? It's one of the most well known.

Everyones told you that evilore himself has said and posted some incredibly dumb shit here and you want further proof?

 

[Ombra]

i'm a bit puzzled here. Seems like your saying that OT became to toxic because of politics taking to much space and being toxic?

Thing is, you're the one who pushed all of it though. Did you already forgot that time when you litteraly changed the logo of this forum in support of gay marriage?



Was it not an instance of politics taking too much space?

Seems obvious that you didn't really cared about this supposed toxicity in OT until it touched you and your bottom line.

Won't even acknoledge your "statement" about the ongoing allegations.

Are you being serious? Do you really not understand his point? When this went down among the genuine disgust from people the secret alt right members and burner accounts came out strong to fan the flames. They felt accomplished and were posting nonsensical threads to get a rise basking in the lack of moderation..as some still are.