The state of NeoGAF

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Just a thought:

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Notice at a glance how "diversification" is linked to "integration", while the subtitle reads "because the world is separate enough".

Splintering a community is never for the better. If your "leftist" politics tell you to burn bridges and dig trenches then you might want to reconsider your ideologies, because that's the exact opposite of celebrating diversity and integration.
 
I once got threatened by a ban by duckroll for having a different view about abortion. If im not mistaken he said "your views are not welcome here. Leave."


There was this other time I questioned if this forum was american or international, because a few posters were banned over ignorance of american culture. Bishoptl banned me for a month.

Ban reason: USA CANADA USA CANADA USA CANADA USA CANADA


But sure dude, keep believing the moderation was great.
That sums up thirteen years of OT. Wherever those people are going will only be populated by yes men who are easily controlled. This place could bite the dust tomorrow and the gateway errors would still be better than dealing with those morons.
 
It became a shit on Trump forum because he generated loads of stories every day, there should have been a daily politics thread to contain his madness.
 
I don't think it realistically can be.

Truth...and why should it? *If* there is to continue to be an OT, then there must be allowance for political discourse. There's no realistic way imho to have an OT without that interjection. Hell even the gaming side shows this aspect all the time. We can't stop being human beings now can we?
 
This is a weak statement but you already know that I'm gonna apply the standards we have always held to here on gaf.

If all this shit came completely out of the blue and it was the first time things would be different.

Our communitys gone and not only because you couldn't just keep your dick in your pants but mainly because of how you personally dealt with this and other similar situations.

Yet, all I see here is deflecting and dragging someone through the mud. This is not what you and us always expected from people who made mistakes.

I'm leaving here, it's a damn shame because gaf became a regular partt of my life in the last years but I won't betray my principles and just sit it out.

I'm afraid this will be a new community soon, even with some peoplestaying here. I wish all the good people remaining here the best, every one of you made this place great.

Cheers.
 
I don't think it realistically can be.

Edit: I was going to suggest a "No Trump" rule, which would definitely cull 80% of arguments from breaking out.

But then you got other topics of contention like religion, race, war that can still spawn chaos. Basically any issue that causes people to lean back on their left or right-wing bias will be harder to isolate.
 
OT used to be the main thing I checked until it got boring as fuck with the same stupid posts from people incapable of rational debate. I hadn't gone to OT in a very long time, I figured the site was down just for actual maintenance rather than changing things until I saw this thread. Had no idea there was drama.

Why are people going after evilore so heavily though? Why are so many people upset? Some girl accused something of evilore and he was too slow to respond or something? Do any of them even know what happened or have proof of anything wrong? So many suicide posts I don't get it I guess I missed some shit.

Glad OT is gone though because it means poligaf and the clinton hivemind is gone lul. Bernie and the comrades gonna do to the dems by 2020 what Corbyn did to Labour, you guys getting swept out we in this bitch. (edit - never mind just locked for now so I guess it'll be back eventually).

That being said I'll always miss lost-gaf, see you in another life brothers.


well, if the admin really cared about the community he created, he would see that these allegations, even if untrue, mean that his presence and attachment are doing more harm than good to Gaf. Step down, EvilLore.

If that's not going to happen, please do ban me. Gotta side with the accusers, not the potential sexual harassers.

How does it make sense to step down if he's innocent lol. You're punishing someone without even knowing what's true or false. Like how is it a moral decision to decide the fate of another person when you have no idea about any of the circumstances.

Anyone calling GAF left-wing doesn't know the actual American left. This place is centrist or neoliberal at best. I'm constantly confounded at some of the capitalist justifications by "left-leaning" posters.

Absolutely. Sure there's always opposition to right wing stuff but there was always severe hostility to actual left wingers on here as well, especially in poligaf which was just the msnbc talking points thread.
 
Dunno at this stage it's probably best to sell this site off to the highest bidder while it still has a community. Perhaps go through a rebranding exercise to shed away the negative associations and start a new. The PR alone can draw in masses of new users and encourage old users to come back. You would have to look at all the options hey. Could even be looked at as a very positive move for one such individual despite whether the allegations are true or not. That in order to save the community he spent blood, sweat and tears to build he had to let it go. Quite a bitter sweet end really and a story that will forever be told in the halls of Valhalla.
 
A lot of posters in here lamenting the old days when they could dog pile posters and label them, essentially backing them in to a corner and expecting them to defend themselves.

Evilore was right when he called OT a den of cunts. Seems a few are going to hang out as long as they can to stir up shit and argue, because that's all they have in life.

I'm glad the mods will be anonymous now. I admit it fun for a bit, but it got real old real fast with bans becoming a blood sport and mods being the crowds favorite gladiator.
 
I've stayed largely silent about this whole issue and wrestled with how I was going to respond to it. The last couple of days I've gone from shock on Sunday morning to acceptance that GAF was gone by the end of Monday and now I'm a little disappointed based on what I've seen from the community and from EviLore's statement.

Keep in mind, I'm speaking for myself and my views on this. I just ask for you to consider and think about what I'm trying to say. Please save your "why don't you just logout" and anger and other vitrol for other people. The fact that people here are saying things like that in response to other people leaving or expressing legitimate concerns makes the site look bad. It is not needed nor is it warranted IMO.

While I don't want to cast doubt on Evilore's statement or side to the issue, I have first hand experience of being accused of something regarding a woman. Where I work at one time, I was brought into HR and told I was making a woman I work with 'uncomfortable' with my conversation with her. It really bothered me and still does to this day -- I would ask her several times if she had any single friends she could set me up on a date with. Had I known I was making her uncomfortable I would have never asked. Had she simply said she was uncomfortable I would have stopped. After meeting with HR, I simply never spoke to this woman again and didn't go out of my way to speak to her.

Obviously my experience is not the same as Evilore's personal life -- but I can relate to what he may be going through. I may not even be in the same ballpark or can even begin to understand what he is experiencing.

Still, what has me concerned is the direction the forum (and the community) is going to take in response. In the next few months, we'll be at the end of the year and we'll be at GOTY 2017. Rather than having open discussions about the future direction and why the current direction happened (because it's a healthy adult response to have), the solution seems to be sticking our heads in the sand and 'just talking about games, man.' In order to move forward, there has to be an acknowledgement and acceptance of the past with the hope that one can be better equipped with wisdom and maturity for the future.


Much of the reasoning for my continuing to read posts on NeoGAF is the off topic forum/communities and yes, the political discussions. I found myself being better informed on political issues as a result. Of course, I wouldn't take posts as the sole source and would read sites like The Guardian, BBC, Washington Post, and New York Times to get more of a fuller picture.

Having anonymous moderators is a bad direction as well -- I could be wrong but I could have sworn it was mentioned years ago that this would never happen at NeoGAF. People could tell who the moderators were and they understood and respected the responsibilities entrusted. Maybe I'm imagining things.

So will I continue to post on NeoGAF? Yes, if nothing of what I said is egregious. Everything I am trying to say is out of respect for the community here and those moderators (whoever they may be) and the site's owner. Do I want the site to continue? Yes, I obviously do. But I don't feel comfortable at all with what I'm seeing currently. I remain hopeful however that things on the site will get better and gaming discussions will be like how they were when I joined. This will be the first and only time I will talk about this subject here. Again, thank you for your time and I apologize if anyone felt offended.
 
A progressive forum where... progressive views were fostered... let progressive posters continue posting. My god. I think you're onto something.

Again, genius logic. Because the subject of post I specifically responded to was this.

I had proper discussions all the time and amazingly enough never got banned even when things got heated on all sorts of subjects. Amazing I know. This forum attracted people because of the discussion but not everything is worth discussing and this forum was great and weeding that crap out.

In direct response to this.

I've been lurking and posting here for years. But I stopped going into discussions on OT because I got banned during E3 because of it. I liked it here. But having a proper discussion was impossible. I was sick of 20 people jumping at me calling me all kinds of nasty things instead of actually discussing. Trying to make me angry and not reading my posts and completely ignoring my points. Escalating to the point of me leaving the thread or somehow getting banned. Things I can talk about in public or in a bar with random people without any issues. I question things. I try to soak up knowledge from all kinds of different perspectives and form my own opinions instead of subscribing to an ideology. So I ask a lot of questions and don't consider anyone to hold a monopoly on truth especially when it's politically loaded. But I will listen to people and adjust my opinion. I don't see anything as being black or white and I like talking about a lot of social issues from a philosophical perspective. Because many sciences and philosophies are contradicting. So it's challenging to people subscribing to one ideology or way of thinking. And it pisses people off when their strongly held beliefs are being challenged.

So your rebuttal to someone's personal anectdotal experience was to tell them that you never had any problems, except that I specifically brought up the salient point, that you enjoyed progressive protections and influence, which makes your rebuttal point pretty much a BS apples to oranges comparison. Your protected progressive experience is in no way comparable to the experience of a non-progressive arguing against progressive beliefs. Your attempt to deflect and portray it otherwise while also then making a "of course this is a progressive forum" is just ridiculous nonsense. Go peddle your broken ass weak comparisons elsewhere.
 
Maybe just have a "No Trump" rule?


Or take it in the opposite direction and make it a (mostly) free speech zone. No racial or sexual slurs, personal attacks on other members, death threats, etc. But loosen the reigns a bit to promote discussion. If politics is going to be fair game, it should be understood there will be disagreement.

Either let people slug it out and understand feelings may get hurt, or make this a gaming only forum is my humble suggestion.
 
PoliGaf is gone! Praise Bernie!

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Bernie art with me. Thy glasses and thy white hair, they comfort me.
 
Or take it in the opposite direction and make it a (mostly) free speech zone. No racial or sexual slurs, personal attacks on other members, death threats, etc. But loosen the reigns a bit to promote discussion. If politics is going to be fair game, it should be understood there will be disagreement.

Either let people slug it out and understand feelings may get hurt, or make this a gaming only forum is my humble suggestion.
That sounds like a fucking terrible idea.
 
I once got threatened by a ban by duckroll for having a different view about abortion. If im not mistaken he said "your views are not welcome here. Leave."


There was this other time I questioned if this forum was american or international, because a few posters were banned over ignorance of american culture. Bishoptl banned me for a month.

Ban reason: USA CANADA USA CANADA USA CANADA USA CANADA


But sure dude, keep believing the moderation was great.

Like, I have trouble actually believing you. I 100% suspect this isn't the entire story. If someone says your views are not welcome here then you most likely said some super suspect shit. I doubt Bish banned you for no reason either.

Like, why should any of us believe you guys? You all clearly have something against the previous mod team and it's as binary as "they banned us for disagreeing". You're not providing enough context. You want sympathy but I'm 100% the real story is y'all were assholes and caught some bans.

What you are presenting now is a circular argument. You say he was banned because he broke the rules and he broke the rules because he was banned. Thats all those "facts" you present say. This is actually extraordinary. The discussion is whether or not he was shitposting, and as proof, you are presenting me with "facts" that say and that say that you get banned for shitposting. Amazing.

The second part of your post is absolutely irrelevant, as others have pointed out, but sure, ill bite. I frequently seek out debates about influential people on the internet, both people i am in agreement with and those im not, especially when im not in the mood for reading longer essays or pieces, as it is more easily digested and you get a broad sense of the arguments. I do this both for people whom i agree with and disagree with, so right of the top of my head is a valid reason ask that question.


Y'all's reasoning is tainted. Answer me this: how many people are banned on NeoGAF? How many do you think were specially targeted by mods because they hated them? I doubt it's even close to 1%.

Nobody seeks out a landslide unless they want laughs. No one watched Christopher Hitchen discuss whatever with some jackass because they felt the need to see other intelligent viewpoints, they just wanted Hitchens to steamroll them. It's why people were happy for Bill Nye vs Ken Ham.

Y'all aint fooling anyone of worth with your kool-aid. We know it's spiked.

This is true, at least in my experience. I was able to post in OT without getting banned, partly because I could defend myself, and partly because I didn't go in "big dicking" it.

That said, folks on the other side could big-dick away without any apparent repercussions. That's the sort of inconsistent moderation that I'm hoping will change. I am cool with extensive moderation applied even-handedly, and I am also cool with loose moderation applied even-handedly. I am not cool with no moderation, and I am not cool with biased moderation. The previous team had serious problems with regard to bias.

You can big dick if you're right. That's the difference. Big dicking hateful rhetoric won't get you anywhere. We all love big dicking it.
 
Or take it in the opposite direction and make it a (mostly) free speech zone. No racial or sexual slurs, personal attacks on other members, death threats, etc. But loosen the reigns a bit to promote discussion. If politics is going to be fair game, it should be understood there will be disagreement.

Either let people slug it out and understand feelings may get hurt, or make this a gaming only forum is my humble suggestion.

It sounds like a good idea but it will be exploited fast.

Someone will say "if I can talk politics in the Star Wars Community, why not in the actual Star Wars games?" and from there, it's a can of worms of every games thread being asked the same question.
 
this thread is just another example of how peeps only care about something when it affects them, personally. All these peeps lamenting the loss of their OT/sub-communities, but ain't nobody gave a fluttering fuck when POPGaf was shut down months ago for the silliest of non-reasons. xD

as for the "offshoot" GAF forums being created... I don't see them succeeding simply because the innate "prestige" GAF has (had?) - that's not something you can force or create wholly even with a who's who of ex-GAFfers. But, good luck peeps wherever you land.

lTLILP5.gif
 
Or take it in the opposite direction and make it a (mostly) free speech zone. No racial or sexual slurs, personal attacks on other members, death threats, etc. But loosen the reigns a bit to promote discussion. If politics is going to be fair game, it should be understood there will be disagreement.

Either let people slug it out and understand feelings may get hurt, or make this a gaming only forum is my humble suggestion.

That sounds good to me. I'm down for it.
 
Are there any mods here anymore???

There are. I only know of two, both seemingly chosen at random. Low post counts and I've never heard of them.
 
PoliGaf is gone! Praise Bernie!

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Bernie art with me. Thy glasses and thy white hair, they comfort me.


God dude, I remember how that toxic shithole used to bully you. Your posts received some of the biggest dogpiles I've witnessed in a forum. Extremely rude replies devoid of any argument.
 
Like, I have trouble actually believing you. I 100% suspect this isn't the entire story. If someone says your views are not welcome here then you most likely said some super suspect shit. I doubt Bish banned you for no reason either.

Like, why should any of us believe you guys? You all clearly have something against the previous mod team and it's as binary as "they banned us for disagreeing". You're not providing enough context. You want sympathy but I'm 100% the real story is y'all were assholes and caught some bans.

But do you believe 100% in what Evilore is being accused of?
 
People could tell who the moderators were and they understood and respected the responsibilities entrusted. Maybe I'm imagining things.

Good post overall. I would disagree that "people" understood and respected the moderators, unless you mean specifically those whose political worldview exactly aligned with theirs. I consider myself liberal with some moderate stances and got banned on more than one occasion for what I thought were pretty innocuous counterarguments. The mod team did lighten the bans in the past year or so, but I really wouldn't trust the new forum, which is created by them, to have any less stringent or politically motivated banning than this one did.
 
Or take it in the opposite direction and make it a (mostly) free speech zone. No racial or sexual slurs, personal attacks on other members, death threats, etc. But loosen the reigns a bit to promote discussion. If politics is going to be fair game, it should be understood there will be disagreement.

Either let people slug it out and understand feelings may get hurt, or make this a gaming only forum is my humble suggestion.

Loosen up the reigns? How so? Should we allow constant conversations about whether police brutality is just a lie? How about discussing whether or not gendered pronouns are good or bad? Trigger words? Safe spaces?

Like, when you say loosen up it's kind of suspect. The discussion has already been had and a lot of people felt you shouldn't be able to spew toxic stuff. Cutting off offences at slurs or attacks isn't good enough because the gamer-gaters, alt-right, and generally nasty people thrive in the murky area of promoting discussion about issues that have a clear answer. You loosen the reigns and you get Twitter, Reddit, and what not.

But do you believe 100% in what Evilore is being accused of?

I can't say for sure but he does have a history of dubious actions. I don't fault anyone for peacing out because of that.
 
You could have moderate or even right wing values and wouldn't be banned. You just had to be able to defend yourself if you came big dicking into a thread trying to lay down the truth. Lot of right-wing GAF couldn't because - *IS SHOCKED* - a lot of right wing / moderate / libertarian / etc has a lot of hate. That hate wasn't allowed. If you believe you were being oppressed either by mods directly or a chilling effect then you are wrong. You simply couldn't realize your opinions were terrible and were most likely hateful.

That is simply not true.

I won't get into the political statement you made about right winged people, but your statement that this forum is/was not a very left leaning forum moderated by very left leaning people is simply wrong.

I got banned in the JonTron thread for saying, "today I learned Jon Tron is a popular figure and gets people reacting" or something like that. If you had a dissenting, right leaning opinion on most political views you were ganged up on and ran the risk of being banned. If such topic was regarding transgender, physical and physiological differences between men and women, and the like, there's a very likelihood you'd be perma banned. I have seen people banned in such topics for having questions on the subject that didn't play to the mod's views.

It remains to be seen whether or not the new moderation on GAF will be more balanced. A good step is taking the red names away, but more importantly is picking mods from both side of the political spectrum regardless whether or not they plan to have political topics on this forum.
 
Ah, so there was discussion.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

FYI, it does matter cause you just admitted there was legit discussion.
That was a pretty pathetic trap card/"aha gotcha" you played on nothing. We weren't talking about if people ever had a discussion. We were talking about if dogpiling happens in OT and you moved goalposts instead. Since my example falls exactly under the dogpiling example your gotcha basically fell flat on it's face.

You know, I actually think it's fine to be an inflammatory poster, which you seem to take pride in. But if you're going to do that you need to still back it up with actually knowing what you're talking about. Instead you've been goalposting, ad-homing, strawmanning and even trying to use appeals to authority fallacies. I mean come on.

Maybe no one banned you because no one took you seriously.

Any particular reason?

Easy to exploit and require far too many caveats to fix the exploits that it would end up defeating the original purpose of the policy.
 
Loosen up the reigns? How so? Should we allow constant conversations about whether police brutality is just a lie? How about discussing whether or not gendered pronouns are good or bad? Trigger words? Safe spaces?

Like, when you say loosen up it's kind of suspect. The discussion has already been had and a lot of people felt you shouldn't be able to spew toxic stuff. Cutting off offences at slurs or attacks isn't good enough because the gamer-gaters, alt-right, and generally nasty people thrive in the murky area of promoting discussion about issues that have a clear answer. You loosen the reigns and you get Twitter, Reddit, and what not.



I can't say for sure but he does have a history of dubious actions. I don't fault anyone for peacing out because of that.


5a6.png
 
That is simply not true.

I won't get into the political statement you made about right winged people, but your statement that this forum is/was not a very left leaning forum moderated by very left leaning people is simply wrong.

I got banned in the JonTron thread for saying, "today I learned Jon Tron is a popular figure and gets people reacting" or something like that. If you had a dissenting, right leaning opinion on most political views you were ganged up on and ran the risk of being banned. If such topic was regarding transgender, physical and physiological differences between men and women, and the like, there's a very likelihood you'd be perma banned. I have seen people banned in such topics for having questions on the subject that didn't play to the mod's views.

It remains to be seen whether or not the new moderation on GAF will be more balanced. A good step is taking the red names away, but more importantly is picking mods from both side of the political spectrum regardless whether or not they plan to have political topics on this forum.

Left leaning people don't tolerate bigotry and hate. Duh.

I don't trust your Jon Tron story. I'm sure there's more to it. Like, with all the "woe is me I got banned by corrupt mod" stories today none seem to even be true cause context is missing so I don't trust you to be forthcoming with all the details.

Yes, people get banned in LGBT threads for posting hateful like how being gay is a choice and transgender people are sick.

You say balanced but then just derided the previous mods for sticking up for decency. Jesus.
 
That is simply not true.

I won't get into the political statement you made about right winged people, but your statement that this forum is/was not a very left leaning forum moderated by very left leaning people is simply wrong.

I got banned in the JonTron thread for saying, "today I learned Jon Tron is a popular figure and gets people reacting" or something like that. If you had a dissenting, right leaning opinion on most political views you were ganged up on and ran the risk of being banned. If such topic was regarding transgender, physical and physiological differences between men and women, and the like, there's a very likelihood you'd be perma banned. I have seen people banned in such topics for having questions on the subject that didn't play to the mod's views.

It remains to be seen whether or not the new moderation on GAF will be more balanced. A good step is taking the red names away, but more importantly is picking mods from both side of the political spectrum regardless whether or not they plan to have political topics on this forum.
That's thread-shitting, dude. Basically jumping in just to say "haha you guys care about this thing I don't give a fuck about."

As for the LGBT "counter-opinions," are you sure those weren't also people denying the humanity of others based on their own prejudices and assumptions? Most bans I saw were of that sort. Of course, the people saying the shitty things didn't understand, because they never cared to.
 
I had proper discussions all the time and amazingly enough never got banned even when things got heated on all sorts of subjects. Amazing I know. This forum attracted people because of the discussion but not everything is worth discussing and this forum was great and weeding that crap out.

You didn't get banned? SHOCKING. I'm sure it had nothing to do with your views being perfectly aligned with the mods, right?
 
That was a pretty pathetic trap card/"aha gotcha" you played on nothing. We weren't talking about if people ever had a discussion. We were talking about if dogpiling happens in OT and you moved goalposts instead. Since my example fall exactly under the dogpiling example your gotcha basically fell flat on it's face.

You know, I actually think it's fine to be an inflammatory poster, which you seem to take pride in. But if you're going to do that you need to still back it up with actually knowing what you're talking about. Instead you've been goalposting, ad-homing, strawmanning and even trying to use appeals to authority fallacies. I mean come on.

Maybe no one banned you because no one took you seriously.



Easy to exploit and require far too many caveats to fix the exploits that it would end up defeating the original purpose of the policy.

For all your worries about dogpiling you sure don't seem to care I'm being dogpiled. Look below.

OH BOY. I HOPE YOU START DEFENDING ME.

 
this thread is just another example of how peeps only care about something when it affects them, personally. All these peeps lamenting the loss of their OT/sub-communities, but ain't nobody gave a fluttering fuck when POPGaf was shut down months ago for the silliest of non-reasons. xD

as for the "offshoot" GAF forums being created... I don't see them succeeding simply because the innate "prestige" GAF has (had?) - that's not something you can force or create wholly even with a who's who of ex-GAFfers. But, good luck peeps wherever you land.

lTLILP5.gif

POPGAF GOT SHUT DOWN? WHEN?!
 
It became a shit on Trump forum because he generated loads of stories every day, there should have been a daily politics thread to contain his madness.

It's not as if Trump doesn't deserve it. :P
I enjoyed having multiple Trump threads to read through each day.

As for me with this forum I don't really know what's gonna happen. I certainly don't condone the actions of the owner, but as far as I can tell Neogaf was one of the very few gaming forums I could go to without having to worry about wading through Gamergate-esque assholes and topics. It was also a handy place to come that negated the need to go to individual gaming websites.

Unless there's an alternative forum I'm not aware of? :)
 
This is why I am not sure a new forum by the old mods will be a place I want to post. A lot of them were assholes.

Exactly. I'm good. I wish em the best, but i'm good because I remember those guys doing exactly that kinda thing. It was all celebrity posters and mods doing nonsensical things.
 
You could have moderate or even right wing values and wouldn't be banned. You just had to be able to defend yourself if you came big dicking into a thread trying to lay down the truth. Lot of right-wing GAF couldn't because - *IS SHOCKED* - a lot of right wing / moderate / libertarian / etc has a lot of hate. That hate wasn't allowed. If you believe you were being oppressed either by mods directly or a chilling effect then you are wrong. You simply couldn't realize your opinions were terrible and were most likely hateful.

Definitely, definitely not true. I once argued that Michael Brown was a bad case for BLM to establish it's cause on because of the controversy and many grey areas contained within it, while also saying I still supported the movement - ban.

I argued during the GG-era that Leigh Alexander was doing more damage than good with her opinion piece. I also argued that people asking questions in GG threads were probably just uninformed - not secret GG cells planted to derail conversation as so many were paranoid about. These two things combined got me a permaban because it proved I was apparently a secret GG shill. The moderation was garbage in my experience.
 
fwiw, regarding this "people with dissenting views getting banned" shitfuck of a conversation

metaphoreus never got banned
diablos991 either never got banned or got baited into exactly one
cpp_is_king, ironically, literally didn't get banned until quoting one particular post yesterday

also fwiw,

Exactly. I'm good. I wish em the best, but i'm good because I remember those guys doing exactly that kinda thing. It was all celebrity posters and mods doing nonsensical things.

near as i can tell from the announcement on discord, none of the old mods are even on the admin/mod team unless Kagari was one
 
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