Chezzymann
Member
I think there are parallels to be drawn though, seems like a wave of nationalism is growing in developed nations
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
- Status
This.
Actually interpreting the referendum result as a declaration of britains intention to leave the eu is the most democratic thing in that situation. What else should they do? Legally ignore it and signal that the will of the people has no weight?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
WTF. Black people have been in England since the late 1400s. Him being black has no bearing on his British status. It's nothing similar
The parallels are undeniable, sorry.
Square2015
Member
Coming in late, why are people flipping out over this?
I'd like to see a list of Pros and Cons for "Brexiting"?
I'd like to see a list of Pros and Cons for "Brexiting"?
CharmingCharlie
Member
People always have a range of reasons for voting for things. I am sure some in remain voted because they believed that the UK could become an integral part of the EU eventually. However I am sure some that voted remain did it purely because they like all the good shit that the EU gives the UK and they don't give a toss how badly the UK holds the EU back.
At the end of the day I can only be held responsible for my vote. I voted for what I believe will be in the best long term interests of the EU and the UK. I know it will hurt both the EU and the UK (more so the UK) and believe me it terrifies the fuck out of me. But in the long term I believe this break up will be good for both.
Captain Chaos
Member
THIS!
Trump blames Brexit on Obama.....THANKS OBAMA
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/06/24/trump-blames-obama-brexit.cnn
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/06/24/trump-blames-obama-brexit.cnn
I actually loled.. Thank you for the laughs.
Figure out how this affects the Vita and you can work out the response.
Stone Ocean
Member
Not just developed countries. We already have a Trump equivalent slowly rising in popularity as the left wing starts losing traction around here.
This shit is scary.
but the answer is an obvious no if you read the article which requires (1) the withdrawing state to determine its own constitutional process of when to (2) for the withdrawing state to deliver notice of its intent to the EC
The article itself says yes. It is up to the withdrawing state to determine its own process
It's not for the EC to determine whether or not a member state needs to listen to a non-binding (or binding) referendum on the subject
Hari Seldon
Member
Of course you can change the trends, we aren't talking about natural forces here, these are man made trends that can be unmade. Every time a factory closes down and is replaced by a financial services job you are creating 10 people resenting the new order for every 1 in favor of it. In democracies this will never last.
I think this is why Germany is so strong. They have a real manufacturing economy. I am extremely distrustful of "service based economies" in general. They seem like a Ponzi scheme that is destined to collapse with financial or political upheaval.
The Incarnation
Member
And boy, there's no better country on Earth to make an example of.
Spoiler alert: It can't. The referendum was non-binding on the government. The best way to look at it is that it is advisory. The British people have advised their government that they wish to leave the EU. The British government will now act on that advice as they see fit and proper to do. The member state has done nothing yet except ask for the opinion of its citizens on the matter.
DarkJedi24
Member
A position in which it was subservient to an unaccountable, bloated bureaucracy? Where bailing out weaker members is the norm? The UK will simply have to learn to stand on it's own, and considering that it was the economic power of the world one century ago, it should have no problem landing on it's feet.
So we're just ignoring the revolutionary war here, taxation without representation, undue legal process, freedom of religion and press....
I mean seriously, people equating this to the American revolution are fucking morons. This is about isolationalism and xenophobia. American Revolution was about basic human rights.
Fuck off
EU heads definitely will be looking to punish but ultimately the power comes down to industry heads and regional ministers. Juncker may be making a lot of noise about an immediate divorce but the main power players like Merkel will have the CEO of every German exporter at her doorstep demanding a smooth transition.
It may take a few months for the emotions to die down but the demands of the money makers will ultimately be the ones to set the pace of withdrawal.
Please no, the Canadian constitution and our structure of government kinda depends on the monarchy being in place. If it dissolves, we have to rewrite a shit tonne of laws. The headache of paperwork is pretty much the single biggest reason Canada is in the Commonwealth.
Get ready for Texit bro
FeenixRising
Banned
He blames Obama for something he just celebrated on Twitter. (Wrong part of the U.K. But still)
As far as I know he voted Remain.
Kadayi
Banned
The 'Remain' campaign fucked up in large part because instead of presenting tangible positives for the UK public to get behind as to why staying in the EU would be a good thing, they instead concentrated their efforts on fear mongering about the consequences of leaving. That is just not a smart approach to sell an idea in a post-Blair UK.
People generally have a dim view of politicians as a whole, but after the BS that was non-existent WMDs in Iraq, fear mongering just raises sceptical eyebrows. Not helped by Cameron and Osborne doing the taking either given their track record of talking complete BS.
As regards departing. It's done, and no amount of crying is going to change that now. I dare say the UK is in for a rough period but invariably things will resolve themselves in the long run.
The bigger challenge is for the EU to shore itself up and learn lessons from this going forward.
People generally have a dim view of politicians as a whole, but after the BS that was non-existent WMDs in Iraq, fear mongering just raises sceptical eyebrows. Not helped by Cameron and Osborne doing the taking either given their track record of talking complete BS.
As regards departing. It's done, and no amount of crying is going to change that now. I dare say the UK is in for a rough period but invariably things will resolve themselves in the long run.
The bigger challenge is for the EU to shore itself up and learn lessons from this going forward.
everyday math
Banned
Obama is speaking
And now the EU is literally unaccountable to Britain because the country just voted to remove its right to influence EU policies. But I guess pining for the good old days of colonizing and enslaving the world has merit, too.
Um, wasn't a lot of that economic power rooted in colonialism?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Trump is a fucking walking dumpster fire. Fuck him.
We had it good as the UK being part of the EU with extra privileges. Now the UK Government can screw us without EU protection while bending over to be part of the EU free market with no say or privileges. We exchanged something good that could always be changed for the better and had many positives but wasn't perfect for a shit show.
At root though, there are unconscious ideas we hold that make this changes and trends the problem. My argument is to deal with those.
To keep status quo manufacturing jobs for people just because is literally a stupid fucking thing to do, and this shouldn't have to be explained. But people are too stupid enough to presume man must have a job or else, which is what this problem is really about. Outsourcing, automation, and displacement are all negative effects to this change, because we demand man must be a cog in the machine. Surely people see the absurdity of this social system, no?
It's frankly childish.
Hari Seldon
Member
It actually leaves the US more powerful because without the EU as a negotiating block the US can get more favorable deals. Every country wants access to American consumers but the American corporations don't necessarily need access to Danish consumers, for example. That is the entire point of trade blocks, to get more leverage in trade deals.
Totally and you, obviously, have every right to your vote and your voice. Even if I disagree with it.
The problem I have is with people whose reason to vote is xenophobia or racism because I can obviously not support that. It is not your case fortunately.
Now, I hope the UK lands on their feet and, as an European, I hope we can also stay united and not crumble.
I hope both sides can come out stronger out of this and not weaker. As much as I would like the UK to be a part of the EU I don't wish you guys any harm obviously.
We fought a civil war over that notion. Once in, never out.
I thought it was about a bunch of upstart rich folks deciding they no longer want to pay taxes.
Evil Supremacy
Member
Never been more ashamed of this Country than i am today, some of the downright racist comments, denial of the facts, or pure ignorance that i have been hearing has left me absolutely disgusted (and the need to calm down when challenging them, before i lost my job).
Good luck London, the Scots, Northern Irish and anyone else that wants to break free, hopefully i'll have my own escape plan soon.
One thing i will say, my 80 year old Grandfather voted to remain, researching and basing it his own life experience himself, so i'm proud of him, there will be at least one walking stick on the remain side if the riots start.
Another point of consideration, a lot of the older generations that live in areas around cities may have moved out from those cities, depending on the era from areas that used to be only or majority white british that had slight or a high influx of immigrants move in, never getting to know them or seeing it as them and us, moving to get away from them, yet having the mentality of being forced out, as one lady put it to me, when the immigrants move in (i won't state the race she mentioned), we move out, eventually we'll all end up in the sea.
Good luck London, the Scots, Northern Irish and anyone else that wants to break free, hopefully i'll have my own escape plan soon.
One thing i will say, my 80 year old Grandfather voted to remain, researching and basing it his own life experience himself, so i'm proud of him, there will be at least one walking stick on the remain side if the riots start.
Another point of consideration, a lot of the older generations that live in areas around cities may have moved out from those cities, depending on the era from areas that used to be only or majority white british that had slight or a high influx of immigrants move in, never getting to know them or seeing it as them and us, moving to get away from them, yet having the mentality of being forced out, as one lady put it to me, when the immigrants move in (i won't state the race she mentioned), we move out, eventually we'll all end up in the sea.
The money will also want to keep the EU together since it benefits them so greatly. They'll push to slow it down long enough for them to jump ship from the UK, but the EU has to smack the UK on the knuckles with the ruler here. It's either that or watch the whole thing come apart.
Article 50 actually states the following
Point 1 simply means that any member state may, according to their own conatitutional requirements, decide their future in the Union.
With the referendum (the constitutional requirement) they have already done that.
Now it's a matter of legally trying to prove if it also constitutes a "notification" as stated in point 2.
geordiemp
Member
You see, thats the issue with this debate, the scare mongering, how do you know it will be worse ? You dont.
Uk has to pay into a club where UK, France and germany are the major contributors. Most take out.
We import from EU more than we export, so what exactly will get worse ? If there are tarriffs, then EU will pay more. Germany will make sure that does not happen as it affects them the most, and lets face it, Germany runs EU.
So how will it be worse ? If anything, being 5 th largest world wide economy, EU needs UK as much as UK needs EU.
It will find a balance when both sides want good trade, and be real, all UK ever wanted was a free trade agreements and friendships, not united states of federal Europe (but as usual nobody fuckin listens)
There are those that are vindictive, want revenge, want blood, luckily Merkel et al will be smart and not hurt everybody.
Basically. Financial incentive was the biggest reason for it happening.
I don't really think the EU leadership is too interested in the opinions of the UK's leadership at the moment.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think the EU will win a case arguing that the referendum triggered Article 50. Referendums in the UK are not legally binding, this is a very basic principle of the British constitution. So the UK has not decided to leave legally: that can only be done by an act of Parliament. That's what the UK's constitution requires.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Have some holidays so booked a week away in Scotland
Loch Shiel
Loch Shiel
OverBlood 3
Banned
Channel 4 news on now. Suggest people watch it some very 'interesting' views on 'immigrants' (Muslims).
They've lost one of their three main economic pillars along with France and Germany, and a precedent will be established for leaving the EU, which has never happened before, possibly causing further disintegration. So not great.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Except that in that century the world has drastically changed and serverely undermined and undercut many of the industries that Britain used to become an economic power.
Outside the EU we face harder to negotiate trade deals exacebated by a weaker currency, we face the death of the farming and agriculture industries now they are 2.5bn worse off yearly and have been on a steep decline for 10 years. The youth of the country have worse prospects for employment and the north will wither and die further than it already has.
It'll be worse for the UK than the EU, unless the EU does nothing in retaliation and the whole thing comes apart at the seams. It's all going to depend on what the EU does from here as we're in uncharted waters.
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