Literally half of us did not want this.
How the fuck do they restore faith of those who didn't whilst keeping Leave voters happy?
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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Literally half of us did not want this.
How the fuck do they restore faith of those who didn't whilst keeping Leave voters happy?
Wouldn't it potentially fuel people who already have an isolationist view even further, as well?
You know, the type of people who go "I will ONLY get/use this if it's made HERE" type of isolationists.
Who are you referring to that needs to restore faith in Remain voters?
The EU could throw the book at us and quite frankly, they'd be justified in doing so.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
What faith have to be restored?
UK voted to be out of the EU, and now EU will act in the benefit of the EU and it's 27 members, not in the benefit of the 49% of Remain voters that won't be EU citizens in 2 years.
Means they simply don't get it. They think the problem is connected with the UK, not the EU. It won't reform itself in the nearest future. They don't have balls.
I wonder what will happen with all those European PM. Will they get some extra money if they lose their jobs?
They absolutely get it.
The UK wants out, they get out and is treated as such.
the European PM shouldn't receive any kind of benefits once they're out of the parliament, they're out after all.
Well, yes, the "crackpots" who are responsible for the US having terrible gun laws would be mad if a British leader encouraged the US to do what Obama and many other sensible Americans have been advocating for. I am not sure this is a great comparison for you to be making. Sure, maybe it was bad politics, but if it was bad politics it was bad politics because the people who responded poorly to Obama's statement are irrational crackpots. I guess he should have realized that, but surely if we accept this it reflects even more poorly on the irrational crackpots than on the person who did not realize the depths of crackpottery he was dealing with.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Taking a harsh stance with the UK won't be good for the EU.
We buy a lot of stuff off them.
I suppose it might help the bruised ego of the petty Remainers for a few days.
What is it about authoritarian lefties that they always have to punish everyone that doesn't agree with them?
Economically the UK buying nothing ever again is preferable to the complete collapse of the EU.
The government.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
I just love how apparently every single person who voted leave are small minded, racist, sexist idiots.
Added on with the idea that because ~53% of the U.K. voted to leave this also means 53% of the country hate people from other nationalities, which has to be true because, well, we took part in a democracy.
It's hilarious.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
https://twitter.com/Rower92/status/746471827413803008 $2.1 trillion lost in stocks globally today.
They should if setting an example is the paramount goal, but I think people are making this a 1-sided affair where the EU has all the leverage and that isn't really true. The UK is still a major economy, a net importer of EU goods, 1/2 of the EU's security council votes, etc.
It's not a harsh stance to harm the UK. It's a harsh stance to protect the EU.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
They simply don't. Brexit campaign isn't concerned with anything but being able to change British legislation for worker rights and finance/business regulations. The EU was the thing stopping them.
They don't care much for anything else. And yes, that includes immigration.
It really doesn't look like the EU cares much for British sentiment at this point any more. This outcome has come at the worst possible timing for the EU and it will be trying its best to ensure the EU prospers. It can only do this if Britain is made an example of what happens when you leave the EU. I fear Britain will be left to its own devices, if not hampered whenever possible.
They need a harsh stance to keep other member nations from leaving the EU.
CitizenVectron
Member
You're taking a pretty harsh stance yourself. It's not something that is exclusive to the left, it is something that everyone does: people don't like other people who disagree, and sometimes wish ill upon them. As a counter-example, people on the far-right want refugees to go back to their home countries where they may die of starvation or war. People are idiots and meanies everywhere. If you only think the other side is that way, then you've got a lot of growing up to do yourself.
Ft Lombard column pretty grim outlook. Some sour faces in London. This isn't salt. It's genuine concern.
Three quarters of Europe's securities business is set to go from London over the next couple of years.
Just to add balance. It's not all bad of course. Private equity business might find opportunities - bargains.
Three quarters of Europe's securities business is set to go from London over the next couple of years.
Just to add balance. It's not all bad of course. Private equity business might find opportunities - bargains.
Oooohh, man.
You really, really don't understand what is going on here. This won't be about revenge. It's about sending a simple, strong signal.
It's not about spite, and it's not about anger. It's pure and simply about the long-run equilibrium of how the negotiation and bargaining games are played.
Think about the incentives here. Think about what's best for the EU, and what their best move is.
Many people are speaking about punishment in a strictly game-theoretic sense.
A punishment phase is completely rational and consistent with achieving the best outcome. The UK deviated, they get the stick.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think the EU is more than willing to take the hit if that means keeping the EU alive.
They're not restoring faith for anyone, the Tories are going to run wild til the next election.
I can understand how he is feeling, and how majority of foreigners in this country must be feeling. The current mood and the message from the result is that they are not welcomed here. Put on the news, see what the vox-pop Leave leaning punters are saying.
His anxiety is very well justified and believe you me, an emboldened extreme right will see it as an opportunity.
UK doesn't really offer stuff we can't find else where in the EU though. Especially considering the UK's economy is based on services. That we can't export to them is what hurts us.
The French had a referendum in 2004 for the constitution,
they voted against.
in 2007, presidential election and they voted in favor of a guy who was very clear in passing Lisbon treaty if elected.
French people still voted for him so clearly they didn't want the constitution but wanted the treaty.
take the L and move on Melenchon.
Please stop with this false argument. You think the opposite candidate, Ségolène Royal, was against signing the treaty?
In an interview from Liberation from October 2007 she said:
"vaut mieux un compromis plutôt que rien. L’intégration de la Charte européenne des droits fondamentaux est une avancée très importante. C’est pourquoi nous devons faire bloc avec les socialistes portugais, espagnols, allemands et les autres, et adopter ce texte au plus vite pour passer à l’étape suivante : la préparation du traité social. La question de la procédure d’adoption, parlementaire ou référendaire, n’est plus une question de principe. Nous n’avons pas de temps à perdre à nous diviser. »
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/politique/20071022.OBS0881/segolene-royal-n-est-pas-en-hibernation.html
Both main candidates were/are pro-EU.
Audioboxer
Member
Speaking of Northern Ireland, any GAF NI in this topic? How are you feeling?
Yeah, it'll be a "Drahtseilakt" for sure. Can't be too nice (why even bother staying in the EU then?) but not too harsh (don't want to be seen as baddies and forces like Russia using this to their advantage, even more than they already do). Interesting times.
Any Questions
Member
Heckler456
Banned
So now people are calling you sexist too, huh?
The vast majority of people here are arguing that the leave side has a large part of it which is xenophobic. This is demonstrably factual. If you need proof, it's been posted and reposted over the course of the last 100 pages.
This says more about the market being caught off guard rather than the merits (or lack thereof) of UK leaving. Everyone expected Remain to win
You mean the 9 per cent you import vs the 57 per cent you export? Guess who has the leverage here?
The EU has no reason to offer a good deal.
Considering the sacrifice the member states had to do to make the survive they won't look back if they have to cut the uncooperative British out of the equation.
Grave miscalculation if they thought otherwise.
jakonovski
Member
It's not about you. You left us. Now it's us protecting ourselves. From short sighted people like you (assuming you voted leave).
Although I'm pretty sure the EU will find a way to fuck up this too.
Wrestlemania
Banned
A friends Spanish girlfriend got shouted at today. "Go home" they said. Whoever it was, probably Cycloprocks, that thought it was a joke that I thought this was going to be a horrible thing to explain to my kids - fuck you. Fuck you. This is why this result is fucking horrible. We have emboldened a bunch of horrible cunts for literally zero benefit.
BlastProcessing
Member
You just willingly backed yourselves into a negotiating position where you don't have leverage. You will be operating under extreme time constraints and your opponent has a vested interest in hurting you. You have no clear leadership and your country is hopelessly fractured on the issue.
It's not about bruised egos, it's your new reality. Good luck!
More Fun To Compute
Member
Yeah we saw all that high minded protection of the EU at work in Greece. Really edifying stuff.
We've already seen polls today that put multiculturalism and immigration at the top of the list of Leave voters' grievances. Not everyone who voted Leave did so out of xenophobic or anti-immigrant sentiment. But clearly very many of them did. And that's the movement that a Leave vote permanently associates you with, whether that was the reason for your vote or not.
Like, not everyone who votes for Trump is a racist, xenophobe either. But, their support is forever associated with a racist, xenophobic candidate. No amount of mental gymnastics can untangle that.
Messofanego
Banned
Audioboxer
Member
And the horrible cunts you speak of feel emboldened by the fact it appears the majority agree with them. I say appears because no it is not fair to say everyone voting leave is a bigot. It simply isn't. Even if a fair few are. It's the perception that helps and enables those that are though. They'll be taking this a mental win that the majority of the country thinks fuck foreigners and brown skinned people.
Sorry this happened to someone you know.
I highly doubt this voting is real. Although tbh I really don't see what the problem is with leaving the EU. Maybe England should focus on their own problems first like the shitty health system, the housing crisis and pissing benefit money on foreigners. Never mind that there are so many foreigners working for a pittance of the cost. Also, get all that tax owed from the likes of Starbucks, Google, Cameron etc.
England lost its identity decades ago. The great British Empire is a shadow of its former self.
England lost its identity decades ago. The great British Empire is a shadow of its former self.
Boy Wander
Member
He must have been very poorly advised. Pretty much everyone that I spoke to were of the opinion "Who the fuck is this guy to threaten us". That combined with Osborne threatening to tax the arsehole off of everyone probably tipped quite a few on-the-fencers towards leave. Lets not forget, as recently as last week, there was a 4 ish point gap but 10 percent undecided. You're playing with fire when theres that many undecided people looking for a reason to vote one way or the other.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
It won't be protecting the EU if we stop buying German cars and French wine because the EU behave like the Remainers (sulky and pissy).
It's in the best interests of both parties to remain cordial for business.
People are voting against the EU having so much reach into our laws etc.
They aren't saying they hate the French and the Germans and won't buy any more of their products.
Heckler456
Banned
I don't think you can overestimate the unthinking nature of a large portion of the populace. I've said it before, but this thing will be essentially forgotten by the vast majority of voters in a month's time. To think that they'll keep up with this to the degree that they'll be aware of the damage it might potentially be doing to their economy is something I personally don't believe in.
The EU won't be petty, and try to hurt the UK to a ridiculous degree. But if you're even entertaining the notion that the UK will come out of the negotiations in a beneficial position, you're kidding yourself. The EU is a bloc of 27 countries, the second largest economy in the world. The benefit will lay in the EU's camp by the end of all of this.
Seriously, it isn't the emotional response here to think that the UK will be punished and get bad deals.
It's not vindictive. It's cold, rational logic.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Again, look up punishment phases in dynamic equilibria.
Wrong.
The UK will be punished, and it will be the rational thing to do.
Every expert said this for months. Don't pretend it's news or a pissy reaction that is suddenly a surprise TODAY.
David Allen Green, who writes about law for the Financial Times, wrote this interesting article that might give some hope
https://next.ft.com/content/3073daed-7458-38ed-826b-5b6d1dc81dad
His tweets:
https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen
https://next.ft.com/content/3073daed-7458-38ed-826b-5b6d1dc81dad
His tweets:
https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen
Which is exactly my point.
the French population DID NOT care.
More than 31% of the voting population didn't even bother going to vote for that dumb referendum.
All the leading parties went into the next election without giving a shit about the result (and publicly shat on the result too) AND weren't punished by the voting base.
If the referendum was THAT important the 2 leading candidates would have been crushed like Jospin was 5 years before.
That didn't happen, french people voted for candidates who would go against the result knowingly.
Take the L and move on Melenchon.
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