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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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C

Coriolanus

Banned
hawk2025 said:
Do elaborate. What's the people in charge of the EU's objective function, and how does it impact the incentives to punish the UK?
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their objective function is keeping their jobs and careers, expanding the power of their party (and some of those that support it) in the process if at all possible, like any political position.

is not about punishing, is about exploiting an opening. the concern is not over making an example, but over brute forcing whatever shit deals you can down the other side's throat for maximum short to medium term gain. Punishing is a mere side effect.
 
C

CrunchyB

Member
BlastProcessing said:
You just willingly backed yourselves into a negotiating position where you don't have leverage. You will be operating under extreme time constraints and your opponent has a vested interest in hurting you. You have no clear leadership and your country is hopelessly fractured on the issue.

It's not about bruised egos, it's your new reality. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Oh wow, when you put it that way, things could get brutal. Sorry UK, but you've made your bed.

I wonder if this would be a good moment to try to refinance/pardon Greece. The EU as a whole needs to show it cares about it's member states. We can't afford to look like a psycho ex-girlfriend.
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
Audioboxer said:
Hopefully that last two sentences of yours are aimed at the bigots. While I am empathising with you and agreeing I can't get behind totally smearing someone who isn't a bigot or racist for voting leave. I might be able to argue they are careless or voting without good merit but I can't justify just calling them all cunts.

Just saying I'm not trying to rile you up. Really just don't want everyone hating everyone, blindly. That's how the bigots behave :(
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It's aimed at literally everyone who voted leave. For no discernable benefit, they have empowered a vile right wing whose views have now been legitimised. Jo Cox is just the start. Every single leave voter is a cunt and you have blood on your hands.
 
S

sangreal

Member
OceanBlue said:
Can you be a bit more specific? What is the better alternative you think the EU can pursue in the interest of preserving the EU.
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Should the EUs primary goal right now be making sure nobody else dare leave or making sure its membership benefits the most from the situation? It seems the former could be achieved just by amending article 50
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Coriolanus said:
their objective function is keeping their jobs and careers, expanding the power of their party (and some of those that support it) in the process if at all possible, like any political position.

is not about punishing, is about exploiting an opening. the concern is not over making an example, but over brute forcing whatever shit deals you can down the other side's throat for maximum short to medium term gain. Punishing is a mere side effect.
Click to expand...

Both your view and the game-theoretic one are exactly in line with each other, though.

This only reinforces the grim outlook, rather than the kumbaya idea that the EU will simply capitulate and give the UK a great deal with none of the costs of being a member.
 
S

SmoothOperator

Banned
Setsu00 said:
France overtook the UK today apparently.
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And so what ? We're still heading toward the cliff.

As long as we have no control over our currencyk as long as most of the decisions impacting our daily life are taken in Brussels or Francfort by some people we've never heard about we're basically doomed.

Love how the whole Volkswagen fiasco was all because of the EU and the way it's influenced by the different lobbies, that shit wouldn't have happened in France.
 
T

TimmmV

Member
Audioboxer said:
Come up North! We love the Germans, especially when they spank England at football :p
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lol, its definitely being considered! You guys have to get back in the EU first though, hopefully Angela shares the same sympathies

>-Baron-Spamedi-< said:
Unless people have already started chasing you up the street threatening to throw you out I think you are being a bit knee-jerky and silly.
I'm sure both of you will find your friends will still be your friends and I'm sure your colleagues will still work with you.

Can you see the irony of calling a whole nation closed minded twats?
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Sorry, but my standards about feeling welcome in a country are more than just "not being chased down the street by a violent mob". Plus, call me pessimistic, but i dont see this getting anything other than worse in the short term either. UK leaving the EU doesnt look like its going to be a happy divorce

And I didnt say the whole nation is closed minded twats, just those that voted to leave
 
J

jet1911

Member
I guess this was already posted?

tumblr_o99gt6Qv6j1snlgxgo1_500.jpg

tumblr_inline_o99ko0b7JJ1rjkb6a_500.jpg
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
sangreal said:
Should the EUs primary goal right now be making sure nobody else dare leave or making sure its membership benefits the most from the situation? It seems the former could be achieved just by amending article 50
Click to expand...

I don't see how those aren't one and the same.
 
M

More Fun To Compute

Member
Metroxed said:
lol, it's not everything about the UK, you know.

I, for one, as a citizen of another EU member state, do sincerely hope that the EU takes sufficient measures and actions in what regards this issue. I'm not saying "we should isolate the UK blah blah", because it's unrealistic and undesirable for all, but there certainly needs to be some consequences. If in the end it happens that Germany also wants its "special" trade treaties with the UK and eventually nothing changes and the UK finds itself in the exact same position or even better (in detriment of the 27 other members), then the EU is a complete farce and I would start supporting my country to leave as well.

I know plenty of people who feel this way too, so what the EU decides to do in the following months/years is very important and will likely determine the future of the Union as a whole.
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I don't get this.

If access to a common market alone makes a country more prosperous than full economic union it would prove the nationalists right. So in order not to prove them right, which we assume they are, we must take special steps to make sure they do even worse than full members. Uh? What?
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Blader said:
We've already seen polls today that put multiculturalism and immigration at the top of the list of Leave voters' grievances. Not everyone who voted Leave did so out of xenophobic or anti-immigrant sentiment. But clearly very many of them did. And that's the movement that a Leave vote permanently associates you with, whether that was the reason for your vote or not.

Like, not everyone who votes for Trump is a racist, xenophobe either. But, their support is forever associated with a racist, xenophobic candidate. No amount of mental gymnastics can untangle that.
Click to expand...

I saw that poll on Twitter, holy shit it was crazy...

A significant portion of leavers have i'll thoughts about feminism. What in the hell...
 
C

Crumpo

Member
SmoothOperator said:
And so what ? We're still heading toward the cliff.

As long as we have no control over our currencyk as long as most of the decisions impacting our daily life are taken in Brussels or Francfort by some people we've never heard about we're basically doomed.

Love how the whole Volkswagen fiasco was all because of the EU and the way it's influenced by the different lobbies, that shit wouldn't have happened in France.
Click to expand...


Dude fucking Renault got raided. Also, I voted for my MEPs, don't know which dictator you got instead.
 
M

Mael

Member
SmoothOperator said:
And so what ? We're still heading toward the cliff.

As long as we have no control over our currencyk as long as most of the decisions impacting our daily life are taken in Brussels or Francfort by some people we've never heard about we're basically doomed.

Love how the whole Volkswagen fiasco was all because of the EU and the way it's influenced by the different lobbies, that shit wouldn't have happened in France.
Click to expand...

BAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHA
You have no idea of the level of corruption of the French system, haven't you?

Heck the French lobbied for a lesser system than the "harsh" EU regulation!
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
sflufan said:
The EU treatment of Greece was a warning to the European Left. The EU treatment of the UK will be a warning to the European Right.
Click to expand...

Is more than that.

If EU (Germany) would have allowed Greece of the hook of austerity and forgiving part of it's debt, EU would have been still EU. They could have took the hit, considering Greece debt impact on the EU GDP (laughable). Oh! yeah, some governs would be in hands of left parties, spooky...

If EU is lenient with UK, there won't EU at all. It's Game Over, is not about having a few goverments commanded by leftist, is the end of the union. It won't be about Keynnesian vs Austerity pitiful Merkel personal war, it will be the end.

So it's a more rational decision unlike the one with greece, and clearly, not as political.
 
B

Boy Wander

Member
RedSparrows said:
Not that I wish to condone the condescension, but the point of this is that Leaving changes the context in which Britain is at work. It could no longer be the 5th largest, for instance.

We do not have some innate power and right to be successful.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree but to state that Britain is fucked without the EU is disingenuous. There could equally be scenarios whereby we prosper. Equally there could be scenarios under which citizens of other countries make their voices heard.

Going back to why this has happened - People go on about how the older folk are all out of touch for voting leave. What they forget is that the EU of today is NOT what my dads generation voted for when we joined the common market in the 70s. They voted for free trade, not political and cultural interference and this is the first chance they've had to protest at feeling basically lied to about what being in Europe would mean.
 
M

Mael

Member
Shito said:
If you think lobbies don't operate in France you need a wake up call.
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I'm wiping my tears over that one.
Like that shit Servier laboratory never happened. People died because France didn't actually follow EU standards
But heh, the EU is evil and nations always have the people's interest at heart.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
hawk2025 said:
Both your view and the game-theoretic one are exactly in line with each other, though.

This only reinforces the grim outlook, rather than the kumbaya idea that the EU will simply capitulate and give the UK a great deal with none of the costs of being a member.
Click to expand...

Oh yes. That is assured. Writing was on the wall with that one, even if we arrive at Wall Schauble from different directions.
 
A

avaya

Member
Boy Wander said:
I don't disagree but to state that Britain is fucked without the EU is disingenuous. There could equally be scenarios whereby we prosper. Equally there could be scenarios under which citizens of other countries make their voices heard.

Going back to why this has happened - People go on about how the older folk are all out of touch for voting leave. What they forget is that the EU of today is NOT what my dads generation voted for when we joined the common market in the 70s. They voted for free trade, not political and cultural interference and this is the first chance they've had to protest at feeling basically lied to about what being in Europe would mean.
Click to expand...

What was the cultural interference? Being told you shouldn't have toxic metals in your food? Too much?

Please.
 
T

Tuffty

Member
Gen X said:
Maybe England should focus on their own problems first like the shitty health system.
Click to expand...

I'm from N.Ireland and from Feb-May the NHS has helped my critically ill Dad to recover from 2 seperate, near death scenarios back to full health at the cost of nothing. So forgive me when I say your opinion on that might be a tad invalid.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
More Fun To Compute said:
I don't get this.

If access to a common market alone makes a country more prosperous than full economic union it would prove the nationalists right. So in order not to prove them right, which we assume they are, we must take special steps to make sure they do even worse than full members. Uh? What?
Click to expand...

It seems to me that these are trade deals, not trade "gifts." The special considerations the UK had were due to their participation in the EU. Now that they've taken their ball and gone home why would the EU provide them with those considerations, especially if it weakens their position in the eyes of the rest of the EU?
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
I'm basically clutching at straws at this point. Either a general election relatively soon won by a party on a pro-EU platform, or the reality of the situation a few months down the line swinging a large chunk of those that voted leave to regretting their decision.

It's a bizarre situation. If we do actually end up in a recession due to this, how will people feel about the referendum then?

What happens if a party with a manifesto pledge to rejoining the EU wins in 2020?

All weird situations.
 
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