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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Hasney

Member
A loss is a loss. Take it, suck it up, wait two decades for all the baby boomers to die, and vote to rejoin.

Nope. Hopefully everyone that's as hurt as I am finds out what they can do to get out there and help us either stay in the EU or at the very least, keep us as close to the EU as possible.

You can only do so much online, but for me, it's easily worth donating some of my spare time for a political party that puts being part of the EU as it's key mission.

UKIP wouldn't have gone away if Remain won (and they still won't anyway), there's no reason we should.
 
Come on now. This isn't Battle Royale. The UK will suffer enough for the next decades because of this. Once the old people are no more and a more Europe-positive generation holds power they could absolutely come back. (Given they fulfill the criteria of course.)

As I said you want to be in a long term relationship with people that are trustworthy. Who says that UK will not leave again a few years down the road because the economy is bad
 

Bedlam

Member
Yeah, I really like the idea of the rest of my working life being fucked up in this way. And then the 5+ year wait for us to rejoin.

Sorry but no, I'm not going to suck it up. When a campaign is running from it's own election pledges less than 30 minutes after the vote ends, and then the leaders suddenly back the hell away from actually leaving the EU, and the result was that close - I think there is space to consider not leaving the EU.
Lots of people are probably toying with this idea now but I don't think the EU would be okay with that, given what's already happened. The last thing the EU wants is to appear weak in any form now. It would be a terrible precedent set for the future.

But even in the very unlikely case that British politicians somehow have the guts to ignore the referendum, I don't think the EU will let UK be a member with the same conditions as before. I think it's goodbye to many benefits for the UK in either case. They fucked up too much already.
 
As I said you want to be in a long term relationship with people that are trustworthy. Who says that UK will not leave again a few years down the road because the economy is bad

Trust, Schmust. All these countries act in a rationally self interested way, not based on "trust". They aren't buddies, they're nation states.
 
Historically this country has been cuntish and though it above everyone else. Not all of us are bad. From either side of the vote. Please remember that.

Nope, for a couple of decades this and other countries have been saying to the EU hierarchy "Chaps and chapesses, the system and some of your crazy decisions are causing major problems that need addressing."

The answer has been always "Fuck off this is our dream and you ain't changing it."

So we've fucked off.
 

Zaph

Member
That BBC clip of Boris Johnson coming out of his house, only to be frightened by the sudden sound of thunder echoing from the sky right above him is hilarious.

That video and the one of Gove not wanting to answer anything says it all really.

They honestly thought Cameron would be the one to hold their shit, but instead he quit without invoking a50, and now everyone's wondering why Leave's so quiet.

Fucking mess.
 

sphinx

the piano man
one simple question..

why wasn't this referendum made under the condition that an overwhelming majority (say, 65% to 35%) had to win in order to make it valid?

that 1 or 2% is basically static noise and only serves the purpose of making half of your people unhappy.
 

avaya

Member
one simple question..

why wasn't this referendum made under the condition that an overwhelming majority (say, 65% to 35%) had to win in order to make it valid?

that 1 or 2% is basically static noise and only serves the purpose of making half of your people unhappy.

Because Cameron was a moron.
 
Nope, for a couple of decades this and other countries have been saying to the EU hierarchy "Chaps and chapesses, the system and some of your crazy decisions are causing major problems that need addressing."

The answer has been always "Fuck off this is our dream and you ain't changing it."

So we've fucked off.

Can we have some specifics please? And please remember the UK is not part of the eurozone.
 

Hasney

Member
That video and the one of Gove not wanting to answer anything says it all really.

They honestly thought Cameron would be the one to hold their shit, but instead he quit without invoking a50, and now everyone's wondering why Leave's so quiet.

Fucking mess.

It's becoming fairly apparent they never wanted to actually leave, they knew how fucked the country would be if it happened, especially for their own self-interests. They must have known Cameron was going to go on a leave vote too, but they never believed it would happen.

This was supposed to be a ploy to get it close, say "rats, but look how great we did" and advance their own careers with it. Now they're fucked.
 
'scuse me. We just had a referendum. The question was whether we leave the EU - not whether we leave two weeks on Friday.

Didn't you PM told to your country and the whole world that he would activate the Article 50 if the referendum was a yes to exit, the next morning?.

Why the mouse and cat play?
 
Well let's play it out. Cameron's already too much of a chicken to bring Brexit to a parliamentary vote seems like. If that holds true for him and his replacement as well then what happens?

No Brexit.
For now.
In this scenario, there would be a GE in 2020, and you can bet UKIP would be capitalizing on this inaction, as it would show yet again how the average British voter is ignored. Meanwhile, 4 years of uncertainty would seriously damage the economy.

Alternatively, the House of Commons could take this game of chicken to the next level and call for an anticipated GE, where everyone would have to clarify what they mean to do about it.

If you set aside ambiguity, it is always to your own detriment.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
It's insane how many people and politicians apparently gambled with the Leave vote for stupid reasons like personal career and bragging rights.
 

Melon Husk

Member
Didn't you PM told to your country and the whole world that he would activate the Article 50 if the referendum was a yes to exit, the next morning?.

Why the mouse and cat play?

He also told he wouldn't quit. I'd like to think quitting supercedes any other actions he promised to take.
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
The Lib Dems are done for. They are not trustworthy and have been proven to go back on their word. You can do that if you're a right winger, but the left/center doesn't easily forget. Especially the younger vote.
 
That video and the one of Gove not wanting to answer anything says it all really.

They honestly thought Cameron would be the one to hold their shit, but instead he quit without invoking a50, and now everyone's wondering why Leave's so quiet.

Fucking mess.
It is hilarious Cameron did that. To be honest I'd do the same if I knew the people had willingly done that to themselves.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Didn't you PM told to your country and the whole world that he would activate the Article 50 if the referendum was a yes to exit, the next morning?.

Why the mouse and cat play?

As I posted in the campaign thread, this was the right thing to say during the campaign, but the wrong thing to do immediately afterwards.
 

Hasney

Member
Lol, well as they have about a .0000000000000000000000000001% chance of getting into power, all 6 of them can say what they want

The Lib Dems are done for. They are not trustworthy and have been proven to go back on their word. You can do that if you're a right winger, but the left/center doesn't easily forget. Especially the younger vote.

Honestly, if a snap GE were to happen and they hung their hat on staying in the EU, I could see them gaining seats since both Labour and Tories are such a mess right now. Obviously not enough to get into power, but with the main 2 parties being absolute jokes, a coalition might be possible again.

I think that although some promises were broken, they were clearly a good check the Tories needed. The shit they tried to pass since there was no Lib Dem partner has been fucking awful.
 

Pandy

Member
Yeah, I really like the idea of the rest of my working life being fucked up in this way. And then the 5+ year wait for us to rejoin.

Sorry but no, I'm not going to suck it up. When a campaign is running from it's own election pledges less than 30 minutes after the vote ends, and then the leaders suddenly back the hell away from actually leaving the EU, and the result was that close - I think there is space to consider not leaving the EU.
It wasn't an election.

Maybe we're just canny to this in Scotland having had a recent referendum, but there is a big difference between an election and a referendum in terms of the promises that are made. Party manifestos are tied to political parties that can be held to account for them (see: Liberal Democrats) while referendum pledges are made by campaigning bodies that vanish into thin air once the vote has concluded, leaving the government of the day to decide how to handle them.
 

Empty

Member

this is a good idea

with labour, ukip and tories fighting over brexit group they could potential carve a niche as the pro-eu party, similar opportunity to the iraq war though obviously starting from a worse position and farron being a bit rubbish. they could get back the liberal but free market liking group that abandoned them for tories in 2015 over fears of a miliband/sturgeon government.
 

kmag

Member
It's becoming fairly apparent they never wanted to actually leave, they knew how fucked the country would be if it happened, especially for their own self-interests. They must have known Cameron was going to go on a leave vote too, but they never believed it would happen.

This was supposed to be a ploy to get it close, say "rats, but look how great we did" and advance their own careers with it. Now they're fucked.
Nick Cohen fairly eviscerates them in the observer tomorrow
The media do not damn themselves, so I am speaking out of turn when I say that if you think rule by professional politicians is bad wait until journalist politicians take over. Johnson and Gove are the worst journalist politicians you can imagine: pundits who have prospered by treating public life as a game. Here is how they play it. They grab media attention by blaring out a big, dramatic thought. An institution is failing? Close it. A public figure blunders? Sack him. They move from journalism to politics, but carry on as before. When presented with a bureaucratic EU that sends us too many immigrants, they say the answer is simple, as media answers must be. Leave. Now. Then all will be well.

Johnson and Gove carried with them a second feature of unscrupulous journalism: the contempt for practical questions. Never has a revolution in Britain’s position in the world been advocated with such carelessness. The Leave campaign has no plan. And that is not just because there was a shamefully under-explored division between the bulk of Brexit voters who wanted the strong welfare state and solid communities of their youth and the leaders of the campaign who wanted Britain to become an offshore tax haven. Vote Leave did not know how to resolve difficulties with Scotland, Ireland, the refugee camp at Calais, and a thousand other problems, and did not want to know either.
 

Juicy Bob

Member
It's becoming fairly apparent they never wanted to actually leave, they knew how fucked the country would be if it happened, especially for their own self-interests. They must have known Cameron was going to go on a leave vote too, but they never believed it would happen.

This was supposed to be a ploy to get it close, say "rats, but look how great we did" and advance their own careers with it. Now they're fucked.
Seriously. This and a lot of people who voted Leave to make some kind of a point but are now legit shook that it's actually happening...

What a utter fuck up.
 

CrunchyB

Member
one simple question..

why wasn't this referendum made under the condition that an overwhelming majority (say, 65% to 35%) had to win in order to make it valid?

that 1 or 2% is basically static noise and only serves the purpose of making half of your people unhappy.

It seems like Cameron was betting on a <40% Leave result which would have shut up Farage & co for a decade. He never expected it to be a close thing. In other words, a mix of arrogance and shortsightedness.
 

coleco

Member
Turns out those so worried about their future couldn't be bothered to vote on it

1466885120745.jpg


36%, bravo
 
Trust, Schmust. All these countries act in a rationally self interested way, not based on "trust". They aren't buddies, they're nation states.

That exact behavior is the reason why UK will not be welcomed into the EU even if they want in.

EU is a concept that started with the recognition that the european states dont want war ever again and that there are issues in this world that a nation state cant tackle alone. that also means that they have to work together and cooperation is impossible without trust.

A country that acts only to its self interest will leave the union as soon as the interest of that country doesnt align with the union and thats exactly what the EU does not want.
 
I saw a really good post in the comments section of The Guardian today:



It's certainly a dynamic I've not thought of, but it's a nice trap to have been set by Cameron and it does dump whoever is the next PM into the shit if they are a Brexiter. Interesting times.

On that note:
&#8220;Boris Johnson didn&#8217;t think that they&#8217;d win&#8221; &#8211; Conservative MP - YouTube
If You Wannabe Prime Minister - YouTube

Seems reasonable to me. Gambling away you country's future just to claim that iron throne in Downing Street 10. What a piece of shit. Well, both of them are, really.
 

Zafir

Member
Turns out those so worried about their future couldn't be bothered to vote on it

1466885120745.jpg


36%, bravo

Well, that's a generalisation, I imagine a good amount complaining, did actually vote.

Sadly a large majority didn't care, and I'm not entirely surprised. There's not a lot done to increase the interest in voting among young people, and frankly the politicians themselves don't do a fantastic job trying to appeal to them either. When the Lib Dems tried, they ended up just betraying them.
 

Maztorre

Member
Nope, for a couple of decades this and other countries have been saying to the EU hierarchy "Chaps and chapesses, the system and some of your crazy decisions are causing major problems that need addressing."

The answer has been always "Fuck off this is our dream and you ain't changing it."

So we've fucked off.

You are utterly deluded. Britain's major problems are chiefly caused by Britain's shit domestic policies and the unhealthy relationship between much of its press and politicians. The right wing of your country have created an underclass who are no longer represented by the labour movement because they have no stable employment, and are fed a diet of Eurosceptic garbage by the press to deflect from the domestic policies that have kept the north of England destitute. I completely understand the anger of people who have been left behind but that is on the British government, not the EU.

The UK has exactly the same problem with diminished former manufacturing towns that America faces. The common denominator between both has been the disastrous politics of Thatcher/Reagan trickle-down economics and crony capitalism, and nothing to do with the EU.
 

kirblar

Member
Well, that's a generalisation, I imagine a good amount complaining, did actually vote.

Sadly a large majority didn't care, and I'm not entirely surprised. There's not a lot done to increase the interest in voting among young people, and frankly the politicians themselves don't do a fantastic job trying to appeal to them either. When the Lib Dems tried, they ended up just betraying them.
Young people also have to, y'know, actually work.
 

Bedlam

Member
Turns out those so worried about their future couldn't be bothered to vote on it

1466885120745.jpg


36%, bravo
Wow, that's even worse than imagined. Hardly anyone <24 gets to complain in this case.

Really just sad. Hopefully it serves as a lesson for the future at least.
 
Honestly, if a snap GE were to happen and they hung their hat on staying in the EU, I could see them gaining seats since both Labour and Tories are such a mess right now. Obviously not enough to get into power, but with the main 2 parties being absolute jokes, a coalition might be possible again.

I think that although some promises were broken, they were clearly a good check the Tories needed. The shit they tried to pass since there was no Lib Dem partner has been fucking awful.

But a coalition was exactly what fucked them up. If they get partnered with the Tories again, those EU promises go right down the drain for a flash of power.
Lib Dems already played their hand, they can't be trusted.
 

Conan-san

Member
Honestly, if a snap GE were to happen and they hung their hat on staying in the EU, I could see them gaining seats since both Labour and Tories are such a mess right now. Obviously not enough to get into power, but with the main 2 parties being absolute jokes, a coalition might be possible again.

I think that although some promises were broken, they were clearly a good check the Tories needed. The shit they tried to pass since there was no Lib Dem partner has been fucking awful.
1) If a snap GE was called now there wouldn't be a polling station that was not on fire before day's end.

2) I'd rather that than ever seeing Lib Dem back in any sort of power. They've demonstrated that they are just as likely to turn Thatcher the moment they park their arse on the throne as Lab or Con.
 

El_Mau

Member
As I posted in the campaign thread, this was the right thing to say during the campaign, but the wrong thing to do immediately afterwards.

Pretty much what all politicians do.

What a mess the UK got into, I've never followed UK politics before, but to me it seems that your politicians doesn't have any idea whatsoever of what to do next. Was this result really unexpected? Because it seems so.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/article-50-brexit-debate-britain-eu
I found that interesting reading but to share a quote from near the end.
The full scale of the task facing Whitehall will become clear. The UK will have to renegotiate 80,000 pages of EU agreements, deciding those to be kept in UK law and those to jettison. British officials have said privately that nobody knows how long this would take, but some ministers say it would clog up parliament for years.
Nobody said divorce was easy or fast...
 

norinrad

Member
Come on now. This isn't Battle Royale. The UK will suffer enough for the next decades because of this. Once the old people are no more and a more Europe-positive generation holds power they could absolutely come back. (Given they fulfill the criteria of course.)

They could just ignore the vote and remain. Didn't we do this to Hamas a few years ago? I know the situation is not the same, but the votes are not binding. Dutch government does it all the time. The people vent their anger by voting against their own wishes and the Dutch government just goes lol. Nothing happens after that, people are happy they voted and everyone goes back to their ps4 and reality shows.
 
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