PJV3
Member
The PLP are constantly undermining him and it's getting worse, I don't like it but he's had it.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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The PLP are constantly undermining him and it's getting worse, I don't like it but he's had it.
New pro-Brexit meme making the rounds.
The thing is, this is 100% correct. That is exactly what they voted for and by doing so they fucked up all things listed. Especially the NHS and rights -- and a Great Britain is potentially going to break up.
At the same time, I'm starting to appreciate that this process in particular has started to have people look at the country with scrutiny a lot more. I don't think overall good is coming out of the Brexit, but perhaps the next GE will have people far more aware of what they're voting for. The fact that we had 2 consecutive Tory terms despite people wanting them in shows something -- and the fact that this Referendum had a higher turnout than the GE...
If this causes us to have Lib Dems in power and somehow a reverse in this decision at the same time (or a country willing to get a Norway deal, albeit unlikely) then I would be pretty chuffed that this would be the best mistake.
The Lib Dems will never ever be near any serious kind of power again.
Beautifully Shaped Monsters
Member
I'm split, on one hand, I can see why people find Corbyn to ineffecient, but on the other hand, the alternative will almost certainly be yet another Blairite who certainly won't address what people struggling actually feel day to day.
Corbyn was a bit like Brexit light, in that it was supposed to shake up labour and help it find its root, instead the established Labour politicians started moping and sat around waiting for Corbyn to slip up, so they could put one of their own back in charge and carry on as if nothing had happened, and that's exactly what's happening now I'm afraid.
Corbyn was a bit like Brexit light, in that it was supposed to shake up labour and help it find its root, instead the established Labour politicians started moping and sat around waiting for Corbyn to slip up, so they could put one of their own back in charge and carry on as if nothing had happened, and that's exactly what's happening now I'm afraid.
s_mirage
Member
Sounds like a right cretin to be honest. Does he recall the reason why people fought in WWII? It wasn't to help Britain, it was to free Europe, Poland included.
PJV3
Member
Organising a mutiny and mass resignation.
Glenn Greenwald wrote this, not sure how I feel about it - what are your thoughts?
AHA-Lambda
Member
urgh 47 mins in
"i'm not racist! Racism is about colour!"
And I just love how negative Will Self is in the same video from the 48 min mark
https://youtu.be/pAu8gbAttXE
Cos they don't have a plan and never did, they're bricking it.
"i'm not racist! Racism is about colour!"
And I just love how negative Will Self is in the same video from the 48 min mark
https://youtu.be/pAu8gbAttXE
Cos they don't have a plan and never did, they're bricking it.
s_mirage
Member
Can't help but suspect that it's been a bit of an "oh shit" moment from the ones in it purely for political gain.
CheDominik
Member
Anti Polish semtiments were a huge part of the camapign. My parents are Polish and even though I never really felt Polish this campaign really saddened me. I can't blame this man.
QuantumZebra
Member
As an American, from what I have seen:
- The "Leave" side never really had a plan, because they never really thought they'd win.
- No one thought that the xenophobia and nationalism would actually be enough to pull a majority vote
- The people who voted either A) Really didn't know what the EU did or how they needed them, or B) Thought they were doing a protest vote and didn't think their vote would count (seen interviews of lots of people saying this).
- Pro-Leave politicians made a bunch of ridiculous promises they never planned on keeping because again, they never thought it'd pass
---
To be honest I always viewed UK and Euro politics to be ahead of the U.S., but this one blindsided me.
I feel sorry for the "Remain" voters and see a lot of regret ahead for "Leave" voters.
This is not going to help the UK at all. Especially if Scotland bails.
There's a huge undercurrent of far-right nationalist parties with racist ideologies taking place in Europe the last 15-20 years. With the terror attacks, the destabilization of the Middle East thanks to our wars and bombing, refugees fleeing from there, the financial crisis, austerity measures and the failure of the Left, rising inequality and poverty, and anti-Muslim/racist run amok, people are scared and fly right into the arms of these far-right parties.
AHA-Lambda
Member
quite probably yes
Nah we're just as bad as America, and have been for quite some time now, it's only now that people are taking notice.
The Remainers have nothing to say because they didn't think they'd lose.
The Leavers have nothing to say because they didn't think the Remainers would immediately be proved right.
Middle/Working class people are getting screwed by globalization, and fools call them racist and whatever else for worrying about it, now are shocked they voted to leave. Not to mention the multiculturalism nonsense and rules coming from other countries with constantly expanding power over the UK.
Interesting it's older people more in favor of leaving, old enough to remember before the EU so the status quo boogie man is less effective. Maybe it's nostalgia too though hah.
Interesting it's older people more in favor of leaving, old enough to remember before the EU so the status quo boogie man is less effective. Maybe it's nostalgia too though hah.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Make pillows British again!
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well, there's certainly is a lot of anger towards the status quo, and it is somewhat logical that anger towards the status quo isn't going to be very open towards the arguments of people that created the status quo, including journalists and experts.
But it's hard to tell if most of that 51% of people hate the status quo because they are experiencing undue economic hardship, or hate the status quo because they're seeing immigrants speak languages they don't understand.
A very accurate and apt article. It's tragic that it took Brexit for realisation of this to really enter the nations debate.
I fear that it'll quickly be suppressed though, and we'll see a return to ignoring the dispossessed, calling them racist and bigoted, followed by some sort of fudge to ignore the result of the referendum. After all, who needs democratic legitimacy when you have financial markets to protect.
Globalisation is not fucking Middle/Working class people over. Our quality of life is constantly going up and that's part of it. I don't think the UK is best at investing in its people (it's no Norway etc.).
But what the fuck do you mean about multiculturalism nonsense?
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
The poor think he's an idiot.
If you're genuinely for Corbyn I suggest you go out campaigning in the North East and see what the man on the street thinks of him first hand. They won't listen to him even though he's right, because he's not in the least bit credible as PM.
I actually like the theory that this was actually a negotiating ploy with the EU that got wildly out of hand.
The danger today isn't from being in an era of economic imbalance or xenophobia, it's from being in an era of political brinksmanship. Play chicken long enough and eventually you have an accident.
The danger today isn't from being in an era of economic imbalance or xenophobia, it's from being in an era of political brinksmanship. Play chicken long enough and eventually you have an accident.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Will is such a boss. Such a way with words.
pacificrex
Banned
If all of those European countries started leaving over a period of time until the EU was just gone, can someone detail what catastrophic things would happen?
*Proceeds to talk about Turks bleeding the country drain*
I get the feeling he wants to say you can't be racist against religions, but maybe I'm being to generous and he's thinking Turks are as white as a Brit and therefore he can't be racist.
Self is so good with his words but I always have to think it's quite ironic Leave supporters always use the message "Let's work TOGETHER" after voting to split the UK off from the European Union.
Globalization tends to help the very top and the very poor, not the middle so much who tend to lose jobs to workers who are paid less.
As for multiculturalism, where do you want to start? I guess Rotherham in the UK but Merkel in Germany has been saying this for more than a half decade now. Multiculturalism is a fail. Immigrants need to assimilate. I don't know if different immigrants assimilate better or worse... e.g. poles vrs bulgarians vrs sudanese or whoever else is coming in numbers, but people have been seeing this happen all over Europe.
Yes. Even Boris who spearheaded the leave campaign seems to have done so only on the assumption they would lose and he could then use that to further his career.
The referendum was purely and only brought up as a promise Cameron made in order to be re elected.
So a couple politicians gambled the future of their citizens in such a big way solely for their career advancement? Jesus if I was a Brit I think I'd need a drink right now. Thanks for the context.
The two go hand in hand for a lot of people. It's a lot harder to be positive about immigration (or free trade, or globalization more generally) when it has resulted in major changes to the job market that have had a negative impact on you, personally.
Labour is never going to become the "party of working people" again if they write off everyone dissatisfied with current immigration policy as an irredeemable racist.
jellies_two
Member
It's a bit hysterical and uses the word Elite about 50 times as a label for basically everyone with a name, but I think the grains of truth are there and undeniable: the establishment media figures and politicians thought they can mostly ignore or despise a huge chunk of the electorate that they don't encounter in daily life, and now this has come home to roost.
People did watch the GFC and the lesson that nobody with money was punished and many were bailed out was noted. Thats what is dogging Clinton as well. It's great to hipsterise swaths of London and other cute areas and keep breaking property price and CEO salary records while looking outward at the glorious future but not if a chunk of the people in the boat with you remain on a pitiful static wage In a service based job. And worse, start suggesting that free movement of lowest cost bidder labor is next to be introduced because it makes companies "more competitive".
Trickle down doesn't trickle down for many. Trump is an empty vessel for the same dissatisfaction.
Nikodemos
Member
Despite being the very image of a snake-oil salesman, and his disgusting Iraq hustle, it's worth noting that Blair kept the country mostly economically level in the late-90s, when a lot of neighbouring ones were in a slump, and he signed the Good Friday agreement.
Cameron was a festering pile of shit from the very start.
I think it's the former personally. People don't really give two shits about what language your nice, brown neighbor is speaking when you have a good paying job and benefits.
When shit hits the fan is when the innate tribalism inherent in humanity comes out. Then it becomes a game of who gets what resources and the first ones out are usually the ones who look different from the rest of the group.
Globalism has really been shit for a lot of people and this was their chance to lash out.
I am definitely not a Greenwald fan but that is a very good article. This one in Salon was good also:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...g_tide_of_european_immigrants_fueled_the.html
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Trumpism and Brexit may be the wrong answer to a legitimate question, but it's not because the "urban elite" has left the working class with no other choice. There are plenty of politicians out there who have legitimate ideas for addressing inequality and stagnating living standards. Many of them are working in the US Congress right now. Greenwald's assertions might be proven right if the voters did in fact embrace politicians like Elizabeth Warren who claim to fight for their economic rights. Instead, it's the opposite. These politicians are rejected or demonized by the very same white working class voters who Greenwald claims are betrayed by the "establishment" (a meaningless term anyway, and Greenwald just casually throws it around as if it's a pejorative). We should at least take seriously the idea that right wing extremism and xenophobia are perhaps less attributable to economic decline and inequality than actual racial resentment itself.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Ugh, fucking typical. These blinkered imbeciles don't even know what they voted for. This should not have been decided by the general public.
Blame the Tories for putting it in their fucking manifesto.
Easy to blame the unwashed masses for forcing us out of the EU but I blame anyone that voted Tory in 2010 & 2015, and I blame the Lib Dems for not seeking a coalition with Labour in 2010 but that's a whole 'nother
wet dream/
That Greenwald piece is excellent. The link it led me to is even better IMO:
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
Lib Dem leader Tim Farron on the EU campaign trail Getty
The Liberal Democrats will stand at the next general election on a platform of derailing Brexit and keeping Britain in the European Union, the party has announced.
Leader Tim Farron said on Saturday night that he would be “clear and unequivocal” with voters that if elected it would set aside the referendum result and keep Britain in the EU.
He said the referendum result amounted to a “howl of anger” at politicians and that the election of a liberal government would be a way of registering a change of heart by the electorate.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...emocrats-live-policy-stay-leave-a7103186.html
The Liberal Democrats will stand at the next general election on a platform of derailing Brexit and keeping Britain in the European Union, the party has announced.
Leader Tim Farron said on Saturday night that he would be “clear and unequivocal” with voters that if elected it would set aside the referendum result and keep Britain in the EU.
He said the referendum result amounted to a “howl of anger” at politicians and that the election of a liberal government would be a way of registering a change of heart by the electorate.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...emocrats-live-policy-stay-leave-a7103186.html
I support this a million percent. He would be a damn hero if he pulls it off.
In fact, I called it earlier in this thread on the previous page.
What that tool greenwald does not realise is that boris and co are pretty much establishment as well. The irony is that the fools who voted for leave will be the first to suffer the consequences of brexit when the broke central govt starts cutting services. But i don't expect that clown greewnwald do understand it from his ivory tower
'Derailing Brexit' sounds as pie in the sky as 'decreasing University tuition fees'... and how did that work out for the Lib Dems?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like 'Omnishambles' pretty accurately describes what's going on:
Honestly though, with The Thick of It done, it's not like the UK has much of a point anyway. It had a good run, but it's not really needed with that show gone.
Great point, thanks. I don't think EU is the problem, or any major institution either as such. I think Greenwald and many other leftists who think the EU is at fault are incorrect.
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