Support NeoGAF

[Kyaw]

Each segment of scenery loops until you move to the next set of cars.

Wow, everything seemed so seamless. Didn't even notice it at all.
Naughty Gods indeed.

 

[Snuggles]

I dont see how playing a PC RPG has anything to do with Uncharted being a good or bad game.

But please enlighten me.

It's an "ITT: GAF sez:" post, of course it's gonna be shit. PC RPG's are my favorite thing, but I like Uncharted and I'm ITT. What does this mean?

 

[Patapwn]

Squee. Another Uncharted jerk off thread.

ITT: Children who have never played a PC RPG.

What does this even mean?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I dont see how playing a PC RPG has anything to do with Uncharted being a good or bad game.

But please enlighten me.

The thread is about Uncharted being revolutionary in terms of cinematic storytelling, and people agreeing or disagreeing with the statement. Whether the game itself is good or bad doesn't really matter here. I'm assuming that guy was making the assertion that PC RPGs have been doing what the OP is stating.

It's not too hard to figure this out.

 

[BigTnaples]

Ugh, pc elitism

Huh?

Has nothing to do with elitism. Just a general lack of knowledge/common sense in the video.

 

[Phonomezer]

Uncharted is the bar for your in-game cut scenes. There is no game that has performances, chemistry, and animation, like Uncharted.

I thought Enslaved was better in this respect tbh.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Uncharted has plenty of choice for a game of its type. One part that stands out is the big courtyard surrounded by water in one of the later chapters of UC2. There's high ground you can get to to snipe from if you go right and climb the piers and ruins, you can directly enter the courtyard directly using cover for a Gears-style frontal assault, you can shimmy along the perimeter on the left and try to stealthily kill the turret guy without being detected, etc. I replayed that sequence about a dozen times on Crushing and each battle was different. There are many parts, like the snowy trainyard, where you can shoot everyone in a huge gun battle, or you can utilize the maze of traincars to kill everyone without alerting anyone.

Anyone who thinks Uncharted offers no interactivity must be playing it on easy and not even bothering to try the options that stealth and environmental traversal gives you. It's not an FPS.

Commedieu made a good post, but l really agree with this as well. The combat scenario's are often way more open than some people give them credit for. Even the train level, which is less open than the courtyards, streets and trainyards, gives you the option to move through the train cars, climb out and use the sides, or get to the roof and use those. For all the lovely visuals, stunning set-pieces and likeable charaters, l just find them very fun to play, especially on Crushing. Final boss sucks though, they need to make up for that with Drake's Deception.

 

[squidyj]

None of the things that actually make it a video game and all qualities that are surpassed by high quality animation or CG productions.

My question would be: What does Uncharted do that is progressive or spectacular to make it stand out as a game as opposed to a low budget CG movie?

That's akin to asking what aspects of Film X make it stand out as a film as opposed to a novel, short story, or even radio play. It proposes a certain metric of assessment that holds some value but then reductively makes the assumption that any other aspect of the medium is inherently worthless and professes a supreme authority on the way in which one ought to judge a medium.

Even if one were to carry out this practice one can see in film in the competing concepts of editing and mise en scene that what one man might consider perfection, another might consider trite and boring. The obvious film example is that of Classical Hollywood Continuity Editing which can then be compared to the jump cuts used in French New Wave films or the 360 degree editing and strong visual matches of Yasujiru Ozu. Likewise in video games, while there are aspects of gameplay that we generally find satisfying (when I push buttons i want a response, a responsive response even) in general what is good gameplay is so varied amongst audiences as to repudiate any attempt to authoritatively quantify what is 'best' in gameplay.

So in summary, the concept that there is an aspect of games that is separate from film and that this should be examined closely is largely a reasonable attitude. The conclusion that since it is the thing that makes a game a game, 'gameplay' is therefore the only worthy characteristic of a game is flawed. Finally the notion that a truly objective or definitive identification of what is good gameplay (although not specifically raised in the quoted post, it does seem to be an issue in the community at large, at least when applied to more experimental games) is desirable or even possible comes to be soundly rejected.


As far as Uncharted 2 I truly enjoyed the game and the game world. In particular the scene in the mountain village where Drake slowly walks through is quite effective. In a Call of Duty title there is never a true moment of peace, only action interspersed by tension or suspense (the guns are always out and the next fight is always just over the hill or around the corner) leading to a sense of overall fatigue with the game's experience. In Uncharted 2, the scene in the mountain village, from the forced gait of drake, to the lack of weapons, emphasize the importance of soaking in the surroundings of the picturesque village. Furthermore that scene prepares the audience for the later fight through the village, now transfigured by war and death. It is precisely these moments, moments in which Uncharted incorporates that sort of variation, that leads me to call it a superb game. Does it do anything revolutionary in terms of the shooting of bad dudes? No. The question though is what is there that can be done in that arena? The controls and shooting were tight enough to satisfy on their own and the distribution and variation (there's that word again) of fighting, climbing, and puzzling although puzzling to a much lesser degree make for a balance that allows players to appreciate and enjoy each section as they move into the next without that Call of Duty weariness that I mentioned earlier creeping in.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

What the fuck?

...what?
I was pretty happy with how that post reflected my experience with UC2.

 

[plagiarize]

people who focus so much on saying any game 'isn't original' are generally people looking to bring down a good game.

the right reaction to that is just ignoring them. the wrong reaction is making some dumb case that the brilliant game is revolutionary.

it's not. but who cares?

the brilliant game is brilliant.

 

[Don]

You cannot have an objective subjective opinion. I don't like the games. I don't like the fact that they use cinematics to show off the cool stuff. I don't like the gun play and the platforming. I don't really think the story or writing is that great. I think they are pretty and not that difficult or overly long so they are easy to complete. I think Uncharted is a BAD video game and hurts VIDEO GAMES. I want less reliance on movies and I want game developers to quit being lazy and use the language of games to tell stories. I think the average TF2 game has better story telling than Uncharted.

But most of the cool bits in Uncharted don't happen in cutscenes.

The cat and mouse with the tank, the convoy and train sequences, and the Tibetan village chapter are the best parts of Uncharted 2 and none of them are cutscenes.

 

[alr1ght]

But most of the cool bits in Uncharted don't happen in cutscenes.

The cat and mouse with the tank, the convoy and train sequences, and the Tibetan village chapter are the best parts of Uncharted 2 and none of them are cutscenes.

pretty much. Remember the collapsing building...yeah all in game.

 

[Phonomezer]

As far as Uncharted 2 I truly enjoyed the game and the game world. In particular the scene in the mountain village where Drake slowly walks through is quite effective. In a Call of Duty title there is never a true moment of peace, only action interspersed by tension or suspense (the guns are always out and the next fight is always just over the hill or around the corner) leading to a sense of overall fatigue with the game's experience.

Perhaps I'm a bit off the mark, but comparing the pace of a CoD game to an Uncharted game is just ridiculous.

 

[commedieu]

Best != revolutionary

Good job reading 1 line.

I said its due to the chemistry of the characters performances. Which is above the normal quality standards for video games. It will be trumped, but that doesn't make it any less revolutionary. I also mention other titles that did this. They raise the bar beyond the norm. Without these things, we would be stuck with dreadful voice acting, bad animation, and unfortunate cut-scenes.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

it's not. but who cares?

The OP apparently.

 

[RustyNails]

Love can bloom on a battlefield

Admit it. Killing Sniper Wolf made you cry

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's plenty of great writers who have used it well in telling a story. Some stories simply cannot be conveyed without some level of exposition due to their scope or the restraints on the writer. It's inevitable that it comes in, but a good writer is able to hide it and make it feel integrated so that it doesn't stand out. To say it's a crutch is moronic considering every story by necessity includes it.

It's not the fault of the tool if there are writers who, due to the lack of their own ability, do not use it well.

I think what he was trying to get across is that it's the job of the writer to tell a story and have the story explain its world, rather than the writer just giving up and throwing in a laundry list of things which you need to know in order for the next scene to make sense.

Which is almost exactly what you're trying to say.

It's the reverse of not offering enough believable explanation for a plot point which requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. Of course both are faults of the author, not of storytelling as a medium.

In regards to games, he's trying to say that a cutscene is the equivalent of the aforementioned laundry list approach. It is a fault of the designer in not "hiding the exposition and integrating it" as you say, because they don't know how to explain something other than using a completely game-interrupting fragment.

I think both of you would agree that copping-out of a narrative to explain something you should let the narrative explain is bad storytelling, and his point is valid because technically in a game the gameplay is the narrative.

It isn't that exposition is bad, it's that inorganically tossed in explanations are bad, become intrusive, and are counter productive to making a believable world.

 

[jman2050]

Without these things, we would be stuck with dreadful voice acting, bad animation, and unfortunate cut-scenes.

Except we're still stuck on dreadful voice action, bad animation, and unfortunate cutscenes.

Uncharted 2 being a good game had little to do with its presentation, to me anyway.

 

[Lion Heart]

Once you've played something like Gears of War or Vanquish, it's tough playing something like Uncharted. The shooting mechanics are poor to average.

Disagree bigtime. You couldn't have Vanquish controls carry over to multiplayer, it would look retarded with everyone sliding around, probably why they didn't add it. Its restricted in that sense. Gears is way too tanky and clumsy close quarters. Also hold RT to win while you fill the sponges known as enemies are not my idea of fun. There is also no traversal like in Uncharted. Uncharted finds the perfect balance of these two games and its very versatile because of that, lending itself well for multi and SP.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Good job reading 1 line.

I said its due to the chemistry of the characters performances. Which is above the normal quality standards for video games. It will be trumped, but that doesn't make it any less revolutionary. I also mention other titles that did this. They raise the bar beyond the norm. Without these things, we would be stuck with dreadful voice acting, bad animation, and unfortunate cut-scenes.

But good voice acting, animation, and cut-scenes have all been done in games prior to UC, which is why I fail to see it being revolutionary at all. Some adventure games from the late 90s come to mind, like Grim Fandango for example.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Uncharted has plenty of choice for a game of its type. One part that stands out is the big courtyard surrounded by water in one of the later chapters of UC2. There's high ground you can get to to snipe from if you go right and climb the piers and ruins, you can directly enter the courtyard directly using cover for a Gears-style frontal assault, you can shimmy along the perimeter on the left and try to stealthily kill the turret guy without being detected, etc. I replayed that sequence about a dozen times on Crushing and each battle was different. There are many parts, like the snowy trainyard, where you can shoot everyone in a huge gun battle, or you can utilize the maze of traincars to kill everyone without alerting anyone.

Anyone who thinks Uncharted offers no interactivity must be playing it on easy and not even bothering to try the options that stealth and environmental traversal gives you. It's not an FPS.

I think you might be reading something into my observations that isn't there, but I haven't really explained them well so that's my fault really. First off, I haven't played the Uncharted games though I did enjoy watching the Let's Play of the first one over a weekend a little while back.

So, for the purposes of discussion let's talk about Half-Life 2. It's not exactly the same obviously because of the perspective and silent protagonist, but it's a decent example for what I'd like to illustrate.

Half-Life 2 always starts and finishes the same way. Player choice in the game is limited to choices about combat encounters like the one you described above, although HL2 primarily uses the wide variety of weapons to give the player choices about how to approach the combat.

What HL2 doesn't let me do is tell Alyx that she's a whiney daddy's girl, and go my own way. Or side with the Combine. Those are both extreme options, but the game doesn't even let me make less extreme decisions which might reflect my personal perspective on the world, such as playing as a pacifist Gordon.

To me those things are the reason I play video games. It's great to be able to decide how I go about killing a bunch of dudes, but I also want the option to not kill them at all. Games like Uncharted and HL2 are great, but to me they're a gateway experience that bridges the gap between cinema and gaming, although HL2 arguably uses more of the language of gaming to do so than Uncharted.

 

[RustyNails]

I love Gears of War, but no way you can pull off the moves in Uncharted with Gears' control scheme/camera. Besides, Gears' gameplay mechanics are ill-suited for a platformer and puzzler.

 

[test_account]

You cannot have an objective subjective opinion.

I know, but what you wrote could be understood more as a statement, that is why i wondered if you ment it in an objective way. It is possible to point out flaws in games objectively. Bugs is a good example of this. How much the bugs affects the player's experience might however be subjective (some care more about bugs than others).

I did kinda suspect that you were only talking about your opinion about the games though, but since you said "Uncharted isn't a very good video game" i just had to ask if you ment it in an objective way =)

I don't like the games. I don't like the fact that they use cinematics to show off the cool stuff. I don't like the gun play and the platforming. I don't really think the story or writing is that great. I think they are pretty and not that difficult or overly long so they are easy to complete. I think Uncharted is a BAD video game and hurts VIDEO GAMES. I want less reliance on movies and I want game developers to quit being lazy and use the language of games to tell stories. I think the average TF2 game has better story telling than Uncharted.

Much of the story telling does however happen through gameplay in Uncharted 1 and 2. If you want to make a game with a deep story like this, how could everything be done through gameplay? The way i see it, it is either cutscenes, dialog boxes or interactive "cutscenes" (like you can run around etc.) where you still have to wait to proceed further. I cant think of any other way to do it at least.

But fair enough if that is your opinion Personally i love the Uncharted games and love these types of games, but since it is about taste i cant really argue much against it.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Good job reading 1 line.

I said its due to the chemistry of the characters performances. Which is above the normal quality standards for video games. It will be trumped, but that doesn't make it any less revolutionary. I also mention other titles that did this. They raise the bar beyond the norm. Without these things, we would be stuck with dreadful voice acting, bad animation, and unfortunate cut-scenes.

I think you mean evolutionary. There's nothing revolutionary about having better animations, better dialog, better acting. They're just really good conventional cutscenes.

 

[commedieu]

But good voice acting, animation, and cut-scenes have all been done in games prior to UC, which is why I fail to see it being revolutionary at all. Some adventure games from the late 90s come to mind, like Grim Fandango for example.

I think you mean evolutionary. There's nothing revolutionary about having better animations, better dialog, better acting. They're just really good conventional cutscenes.

Good point.

 

[Red]

Admit it. Killing Sniper Wolf made you cry

Don't even remember what that was

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'd say it's almost always more interesting working around a story and coming to your own conclusions than it is to have things spelled out for you. It's the gaming equivalent of reading "Suzy felt sad" in a book. Almost always better to have emotion and meaning through behavior and action than it is through telling and indicating.

But we're moving away from Uncharted and gaming now and heading more toward general storytelling rules.

The subtle hand gesture in the cutscene on the last page is an example of good storytelling. It's still a cutscene, but it says a whole lot without saying anything at all.

That's exactly what I was getting at, I must have misunderstood the argument you guys were having there. My personal peeve is when I know really clearly what the director wants me to feel at a particular moment instead of them making me feel it.

 

[test_account]

But most of the cool bits in Uncharted don't happen in cutscenes.

The cat and mouse with the tank, the convoy and train sequences, and the Tibetan village chapter are the best parts of Uncharted 2 and none of them are cutscenes.

I agree Also the part where the

Spoiler

building collapses and you're in it

and when you enter

Spoiler

Shambala and get those monsters after you and the whole plateu slides down

. There are indeed many parts in Uncharted 1 and 2 where the gameplay stuff shows off some of the coolest stuff, at least in my opinion

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Before there was Uncharted, there was MGS (for PS1). I feel MGS revolutionized videogames, especially action adventure ones. Before MGS, you were just a buff dude and you blew up shit and saved bitches. Now you actually cared about everything.

You do know that there was MG and MG2 before MGS, right? While MG wasn't all that great story-wise (although it was different than "buff dude blowing shit and saving bitches"), MG2's story is pretty much on a MGS level... only in 2D.

 

[H_Prestige]

As someone who normally hates video game cutscenes, I agree 100% with the OP. I never felt like skipping the cutscenes in UC2. Everything felt so natural. Literally like a movie, but without real people. Perfect flow from movie to game. Only other game to do that was FFXII.

 

[Rewrite]

Love the cutscenes in the games and the overall story the series has along with the excellent voice acting. However, Uncharted 1's story will always be better than the second one for me. It flowed well together and it felt like a big mystery you were trying to solve on the island. I felt like I was a treasure hunter exploring for clues, you know? The closest I felt to that same feeling in Uncharted 2 is when you're exploring the cave with the blue flame.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

OP, you will look back at this post in a few years when gaming production values blow the Uncharted games out of the water, and you will wonder what the hell you were thinking when you wrote this.

 

[Grisby]

Admit it. Killing Sniper Wolf made you cry

You know, it didn't but I did feel pretty bad. I think that was one of the best character deaths I've ever seen. It had just the right amount of Metal Gear cheese.

 

[revolverjgw]

To me those things are the reason I play video games. It's great to be able to decide how I go about killing a bunch of dudes, but I also want the option to not kill them at all. Games like Uncharted and HL2 are great, but to me they're a gateway experience that bridges the gap between cinema and gaming, although HL2 arguably uses more of the language of gaming to do so than Uncharted.

Fair enough, but personally I have plenty of fun with both kinds of games and there's room in the industry for both the more linear and guided approach and the more open, always will be. Neither can ever achieve any sort of "ideal" expression of the VG medium, there is no one ideal. Uncharted 3 and Deus Ex are undoubtedly going to be 1A and 1B on my GOTY list.

Can't say I'm surprised that you haven't played Uncharted, though. That actually explains a lot. Seems like a LOT of people criticizing it for being an interactive movie haven't actually played it.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Don't even remember what that was

WHAAAAAtt?!?!?! That was like the best part!

 

[Phonomezer]

Love the cutscenes in the games and the overall story the series has along with the excellent voice acting. However, Uncharted 1's story will always be better than the second one for me. It flowed well together and it felt like a big mystery you were trying to solve on the island. I felt like I was a treasure hunter exploring for clues, you know? The closest I felt to that same feeling in Uncharted 2 is when you're exploring the cave with the blue flame.

Yep, I loved that part too. Closest U2 came to having any sense of exploration IMO, regardless of the scope.

It's a shame that from then onwards the game just coasted on press forward to win set-pieces and getting assaulted by an endless showers of grenades in various aesthetically appealing corridors.

Sorry if I sound negative, I loved U2 (finished it in 2 sittings), but there was a lot more room for improvement than people are willing to admit to ITT.

 

[dark_inferno]

LA Noire and...acting?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Seems like a LOT of people criticizing it for being an interactive movie haven't actually played it.

Doesn't discount all of us who HAVE played it and are still criticizing it. ;P

 

[Kinyou]

Huh?

Has nothing to do with elitism. Just a general lack of knowledge/common sense in the video.

Just thought that the 90% of pcs are weaker than the PS3 argument is probably true. Just keep in mind that most of the pcs are somewhere at our moms/grandmother house, and are very low tech.Also think of all the netbooks and laptops. Now if he had said weaker than 90% of all gaming pcs it would have been obliviously a different deal.

and the somewhat obligatory "why don't you love my crysis?" and "WTF, MW2 best pc game?!?!" felt very pc elitist to me

Edit:

LA Noire and...acting?

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7691/1310079231226.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
La noire is probably the only game that could recreate this facial expression ^^

 

[Red]

WHAAAAAtt?!?!?! That was like the best part!

Was it in the first game? The only bosses I remember in MGS are Psycho Mantis, some fat guy on rollerskates, the guy at the end of MGS2 with the eyepatch, and the Metal Gears themselves. Pretty much all of them from MGS3 though.

 

[bhlaab]

Uncharted is great at cutscenes and cinematic, tightly-scripted gameplay.

Which is why I would say it's de-evolutionary

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Fair enough, but personally I have plenty of fun with both kinds of games and there's room in the industry for both the more linear and guided approach and the more open, always will be. Neither can ever achieve any sort of "ideal" expression of the VG medium, there is no one ideal. Uncharted 3 and Deus Ex are undoubtedly going to be 1A and 1B on my GOTY list.

Can't say I'm surprised that you haven't played Uncharted, though. That actually explains a lot. Seems like a LOT of people criticizing it for being an interactive movie haven't actually played it.

Out of interest though, are you saying that you agree with the "revolutionary" label being applied to Uncharted?

 

[Zakkath]

I like Uncharted, but I completely disagree with you—game has pretty forgettable writing and performances, when compared to, say, a Tim Schafer game, something from Valve, or Deadly Premonition.

Funny guy. You were kidding... right ?

 

[SirButterstick]

Opinion on Uncharted: Average game is average. So there

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Love the cutscenes in the games and the overall story the series has along with the excellent voice acting. However, Uncharted 1's story will always be better than the second one for me. It flowed well together and it felt like a big mystery you were trying to solve on the island. I felt like I was a treasure hunter exploring for clues, you know? The closest I felt to that same feeling in Uncharted 2 is when you're exploring the cave with the blue flame.

Add me to the camp that prefers the first game to the second.

 

[RooMHM]

This could be written and true in almost all threads : Hyperbole Generation.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

I don't understand some people who hate cutscenes in games..... do they really think hating games cutscenes is cool? is that why they hate it?

remember guys.... it's VIDEO games, and they can make some great scenes that blow the biggest Hollywood movies away.

 

[LightOfTruth]

No reason for anyone to be offended. Some of my favorite games this generation weren't revolutionary at all (RDD, CoD4, MP3, etc...). Uncharted is a unique game and it is very polished. I agree it raised the bar in story-telling and it probably has the best animation in any game (U3 looks even better in that department). It doesnt have to be anything more than that.

 

[alr1ght]

Opinion on Uncharted: Average game is average. So there

it would help if you actually played them.

 

[bhlaab]

Except we're still stuck on dreadful voice action, bad animation, and unfortunate cutscenes.

Uncharted 2 being a good game had little to do with its presentation, to me anyway.

Uncharted 2 being good has everything to do with its presentation because the game is nothing but presentation.

Fun, but not much substance and not much revolutionary.