The Wii U Speculation Thread V: The Final Frontier

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TheExplodingHead said:
Call me a asshole, but I'm not a fan of the idea of a Pokemon MMO. Not that I'm necessarily a fan of MMO's or even Pokemon in general, I just don't see that core concept working as a MMO. A Pokemon game with a heavy MP component sure, but not a conceptual MMO.
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Huh? Pokemon begs to be an MMO. They don't have the change the core premise or mechanics at all.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Of course they do. Theyre a business that makes billions of dollars in revenue every year. Its probably come up dozens of times, but concluded it wasnt worth it.

MMOs are expensive to develop and take years to make.

Kid centric f2p MMOs havent been big for very long. (how are numbers for the big disney and sony ones now a days?)

From interviews, it seems they feel it goes against what they see as the series portable focus.

And most important of all:

Like mario, it reduces the worth of owning/buying a system if the audience for Pokemon can get their fix elsewhere.

Giving them a game they can play indefinitely (in theory) would probably hurt sales of the protable remakes and sequels.
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Just a hunch, but I suspect that Nintendo would have more adults playing this MMO than most people would predict. I peeked in on a Pokemon forum a few months ago and was shocked at the number of adults there. Changed my view a bit.
 
Lonely1 said:
Huh? Pokemon begs to be an MMO. They don't have the change the premise or basic mechanics at all.
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Which type of MMO in practice does it beg to be? As a portable training/battle game it works fine, made even better with solid online components. But a full blown MMO?

Or maybe I'm just behind the times, the last Pokemon game I really completed was Pokemon Blue. :P
 
HylianTom said:
Just a hunch, but I suspect that Nintendo would have more adults playing this MMO than most people would predict. I peeked in on a Pokemon forum a few months ago and was shocked at the number of adults there. Changed my view a bit.
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Oh, totally. I know how big the adult pokemon fandom is because i am a part of it. The MMO crowd is a fickle bunch though and i would be curious to see how well the audience would transition.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Oh, totally. I know how big the adult pokemon fandom is because i am a part of it. The MMO crowd is a fickle bunch though and i would be curious to see how well the audience would transition.
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Oh - gotcha. You make a good point.. there have been attempts at MMOs that I swore up and down would be successful, but they flopped entirely. We just don't know, I guess.

The one thing Nintendo would have in its favor in this case? Pokemon fans are clinically insane, haha..
 
TheExplodingHead said:
Which type of MMO in practice does it beg to be? As a portable training/battle game it works fine, made even better with solid online components. But a full blown MMO?

Or maybe I'm just behind the times, the last Pokemon game I really completed was Pokemon Blue. :P
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Its own type. Just think of the whole game taking place in a persistent world interacting with hundred of players. You got tournaments, dungeons, crafting/breeding system, trading and the most important thing: a deep and obsessive phat loot system, directly inhered from the sp games.
 
HylianTom said:
Just a hunch, but I suspect that Nintendo would have more adults playing this MMO than most people would predict. I peeked in on a Pokemon forum a few months ago and was shocked at the number of adults there. Changed my view a bit.
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Personally anytime I think of a Pokemon MMO it would primarily be played by older gamers. In fact an idea I had thought of recently would be to have separate age groups. Of course some would not be honest with their age, but if you had age groups of maybe 6-12, 13-17, and 18 and up, or whatever people deem appropriate, it should help with separating user experience and making things more balanced.
 
pokemonworldadventurebox.png


It isn't an MMO, but it is multiplayer.
 
TheExplodingHead said:
Which type of MMO in practice does it beg to be? As a portable training/battle game it works fine, made even better with solid online components. But a full blown MMO?

Or maybe I'm just behind the times, the last Pokemon game I really completed was Pokemon Blue. :P
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I haven't played a Pokemon game since Red and I definitely feel the IP would do well as an MMO.

BurntPork said:
I don't care. I'm just sick of seeing Apple everywhere I go. :(
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Nintendo's done well in the past copying things from Apple.
 
bgassassin said:
Personally anytime I think of a Pokemon MMO it would primarily be played by older gamers. In fact an idea I had thought of recently would be to have separate age groups. Of course some would not be honest with their age, but if you had age groups of maybe 6-12, 13-17, and 18 and up, or whatever people deem appropriate, it should help with separating user experience and making things more balanced.
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Yeah, we old folks can't possibly be competitive with hordes of teens with practically unlimited free time, :(.

BurntPork said:
I don't care. I'm just sick of seeing Apple everywhere I go. :(
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Haven't you read all the analyst in the last few years? By 2020 Apple is going to be an omnipotent corporation owning all aspect of human life. In 2016 they will launch their own restaurant chain, killing immediately McDonalds and Tacobell, followed by their own designed car which is is going to be so awesome that it will shame Toyota into bankruptcy.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Of course they do. Theyre a business that makes billions of dollars in revenue every year. Its probably come up dozens of times, but concluded it wasnt worth it.

MMOs are expensive to develop and take years to make.

Kid centric f2p MMOs havent been big for very long. (how are numbers for the big disney and sony ones now a days?)

From interviews, it seems they feel it goes against what they see as the series portable focus.

And most important of all:

Like mario, it reduces the worth of owning/buying a system if the audience for Pokemon can get their fix elsewhere. They want to sell people more than just pokemon, but they need them to want the system first.

Giving them a game they can play indefinitely (in theory) would probably hurt sales of the protable remakes and sequels.
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I actually agree with you I think they wont make an MMO is because MMOs are played forever they might be thinking their sales would be cannibalized across the whole IP. Then again if the MMO becomes a extremely huge success they could milk the damn thing till it ran dry.
 
Sounds unimaginative, but I kinda wish we'd have a classic, archetypical MMO, with boring classes, races, skills, etc.

Classes: knight - archer - cleric - druid - paladin - sorcerer - thief - etc.
Races: human - elf - dwarf - goblin - etc.
Combat Skills: swords - bow - spear - axe - blunt weapons - etc.

Give me a giant world to get lost in, a basic alchemy system, a lot lot lot of caves/tombs/fortresses/etc to clear-out..

I could type this wish list all friggin' night. Just do a mix of Elder Scrolls, Might and Magic 6 through 9, and Dungeons & Dragons, and we'd have the basis for a fantastic game. If done right, I'd end-up obsessed with it all generation long.
 
HylianTom said:
Sounds unimaginative, but I kinda wish we'd have a classic, archetypical MMO, with boring classes, races, skills, etc.

Classes: knight - archer - cleric - druid - paladin - sorcerer - thief - etc.
Races: human - elf - dwarf - goblin - etc.
Combat Skills: swords - bow - spear - axe - blunt weapons - etc.

Give me a giant world to get lost in, a basic alchemy system, a lot lot lot of caves/tombs/fortresses/etc to clear-out..

I could type this wish list all friggin' night. Just do a mix of Elder Scrolls, Might and Magic 6 through 9, and Dungeons & Dragons, and we'd have the basis for a fantastic game. If done right, I'd end-up obsessed with it all generation long.
Click to expand...

I would play this.
 
Lonely1 said:
Its own type. Just think of the whole game taking place in a persistent world interacting with hundred of players. You got tournaments, dungeons, crafting/breeding system, trading and the most important thing: a deep and obsessive phat loot system, directly inhered from the sp games.
Click to expand...

I suppose that could work, just seems a lot different from what I remember a "Pokemon game" being. It'd be interesting to see how it would be received and supported long term. Because if we're talking about a Nintendo MMO, we're talking a massive investment of cash and support for the game (especially from fans). Nintendo isn't exactly well known for being intensely interested retroactive in their products, they drop old shit with a quickness. And what happens to those who have no INET, is the SP even worth it?

But yeah, for the people who are interested in the Pokemon MMO, great. I'd be interested if it kept the sprite art. But if I ever wanted to jump back in I'd be much more interested in classic Pokemon with solid and deep online components.

bgassassin said:
I haven't played a Pokemon game since Red and I definitely feel the IP would do well as an MMO.
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I mean, I can certainly see the obvious financial and critical potential, and even doing good things for the IP. I guess it just boils down to the type of Pokemon game I'd be interested in. Which frankly is just classic Pokemon with console-based online interactions, which I also think is 100x more likely to happen than a MMO.
 
TheExplodingHead said:
Call me a asshole, but I'm not a fan of the idea of a Pokemon MMO. Not that I'm necessarily a fan of MMO's or even Pokemon in general, I just don't see that core concept working as a MMO. A Pokemon game with a heavy MP component sure, but not a conceptual MMO.
Click to expand...

You're not an asshole for thinking this. I feel the same. I think they should leave Pokemon the same way it is.

It's not that I don't think an MMO Pokemon game would work but rather that I'm not a fan of MMO games.
 
HylianTom said:
Sounds unimaginative, but I kinda wish we'd have a classic, archetypical MMO, with boring classes, races, skills, etc.

Classes: knight - archer - cleric - druid - paladin - sorcerer - thief - etc.
Races: human - elf - dwarf - goblin - etc.
Combat Skills: swords - bow - spear - axe - blunt weapons - etc.

Give me a giant world to get lost in, a basic alchemy system, a lot lot lot of caves/tombs/fortresses/etc to clear-out..

I could type this wish list all friggin' night. Just do a mix of Elder Scrolls, Might and Magic 6 through 9, and Dungeons & Dragons, and we'd have the basis for a fantastic game. If done right, I'd end-up obsessed with it all generation long.
Click to expand...

Just do a proper first person Elder Scrolls MMO and steal Bethesda's abused fanbase.
 
TheExplodingHead said:
I suppose that could work, just seems a lot different from what I remember a "Pokemon game" being. It'd be interesting to see how it would be received and supported long term. Because if we're talking about a Nintendo MMO, we're talking a massive investment of cash and support for the game (especially from fans). Nintendo isn't exactly well known for being intensely interested retroactivity in their products, they drop old shit with a quickness. And what happens to those who have no INET, is the SP even worth it?

But yeah, for the people who are interested in the Pokemon MMO, great. I'd be interested if it kept the sprite art. But if I ever wanted to jump back in I'd be much more interested in classic Pokemon with solid and deep online components.



I mean, I can certainly see the obvious financial and critical potential, and even doing good things for the IP. I guess it just boils down to the type of Pokemon game I'd be interested in. Which frankly is just classic Pokemon with console-based online interactions, which I also think is 100x more likely to happen than a MMO.
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I understand where your coming from about the MMO not being a "pokemon game." The thing is the game even though its single player gives you the sense of competion by other trainers and stuff all the time.. like npcs saying stuff like, " I beat every trainer that Ive ever battle. Lets battle." When in fact your the only trainer in the game in all actuality your the only trainer they're ever gonna battle. The game just has this "everybody is in to win it" theme but really your only in to win it.
 
How about calling it the w.u.c.? Short for the Wii U Controller.
 
ViewtifulJC said:
I was replaying the game again on NDS for the first time in ages. It just...boggles my mind that this game hasn't been copied to death yet. It's like an answer to most of the complaints about JRPGs. It's fast-paced, there's no random battles, the fairy tale storytelling rises above the bad anime shit you usually get, absolutely no grinding necessary with a perfect difficulty curve, 20-25 hours of content no filler, incentives to replay, you can walk away from long-winded NPCs...

It's just so weird. CT is maybe one of gaming's most universally-loved creations, but its essentially been ignored going by influence, and I think the genre was worse for it.
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All of what you just said. I like to think of Chrono Trigger as the Star Wars of RPGs and it's rediculous it never got a proper Yuji Horii/Toriyama helmed sequel. Chrono Trigger is not just an incredible RPG, it has a permanent spot in my top three all time favorite SNES games along with Yoshi's Island and Super Metroid. The freedom of battle and exciting techs, the epic sci-fi/fantasy storyline, the unforgettable characters, the hand drawn visuals which still look beautiful today, the soundtrack, it's still just as fun and memorable after all these years.

Last year my brother got me a mint and complete copy of CT DS as a gift, so good to play it again. I love my SNES cart but the DS version is the perfect special edition and gets regular rotation in my 3DS. Can you imagine a Wii U sequel with hand drawn/cel shaded visuals and NFC support? Too bad Square apparently can't.

edit: Gone but not forgotten.

600full-chrono-trigger-screenshot.jpg
 
Lonely1 said:
Yeah, we old folks can't possibly be competitive with hordes of teens with practically unlimited free time, :(.
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This is true.

BurntPork said:
Lalalala, I can't hear you!
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LOL.

TheExplodingHead said:
I mean, I can certainly see the obvious financial and critical potential, and even doing good things for the IP. I guess it just boils down to the type of Pokemon game I'd be interested in. Which frankly is just classic Pokemon with console-based online interactions, which I also think is 100x more likely to happen than a MMO.
Click to expand...

I agree that would be 100x more likely than an MMO. But it's always nice to ponder the idea of it happening.
 
Mihael Mello Keehl said:
I understand where your coming from about the MMO not being a "pokemon game." The thing is the game even though its single player gives you the sense of competion by other trainers and stuff all the time.. like npcs saying stuff like, " I beat every trainer that Ive ever battle. Lets battle." When in fact your the only trainer in the game in all actuality your the only trainer they're ever gonna battle. The game just has this "everybody is in to win it" theme but really your only in to win it.
Click to expand...

What Pokemon could learn from Souls online systems! ;)

In all seriousness though, I really do think that type of idiosyncratic detached online atmosphere could work well for a modern console Pokemon. Where you trade, battle, no voice chat/etc, can only group up by certain means. And it also preserves the core concepts of the SP for those who don't want to bother, or go old school with connectivity to the 3DS/etc. Wouldn't that seem like the better more sustainable transition than a full blown MMO?
 
Regarding the Pokemon MMO talk.

Would you guys like to see WoW on Wii U ?.

I think the console MMO market is one of the most untapped markets in gaming.

If they released Vanilla WoW (play till level 60 for free) for $40 and then if you took on the monthly sub of say $5 per month you got the TBC, Wrath and Cata content unlocked (included on the original disc) i think it would sell very well for consoles.

A lot of console gamers like the idea of MMO's but don't want to try PC gaming, these will also be the first generation of consoles with enough Ram and buttons (tablet pad) to run them.

The only problem i could see for WoW and Wii U is the HDD, im sure the latest WoW client is up to around the 20GB mark now, altho im sure it could run off the disc if they optimised it for Wii U.

Would really start the Nintendo Network with a bang and show that Nintendo really are serious about online play next gen.
 
bgassassin said:
I agree that would be 100x more likely than an MMO. But it's always nice to ponder the idea of it happening.
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Agreed. I do think the idea of it could be appealing in the most optimistic sense, and if pulled off well I'd probably buy it. Truth be told though, the last real MMO I played was WoW, about a year and a half ago. So I guess it's hard for me to dream the MMO dream with so little to base it on.

But I must admit, if Nintendo did this, and did it well...it could cement their online platform and be a great way to market that service. Probably just as good if not better than Smash online.
 
After all this MMO talk I just remembered this patent Nintendo filed last year.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ninten...-single-player-patent-mentions-wii-3d-6328634

Hardware maker lays claim to idea of a virtual world devoid of direct player interaction, suggests implementation on "Wii 3D video game console."

When it comes to online gaming, Nintendo has always insisted it would not follow the competition but would rather wait to pursue things in its distinctive Nintendo way. In a US patent application filed in early 2010 and published last week, Nintendo is claiming dibs on the idea of a "Massively Single-Playing Online Game."
The patent doesn't mention specific titles, but the treatment is reminiscent of Animal Crossing.

The patent doesn't mention specific titles, but the treatment is reminiscent of Animal Crossing.

The patent gives a few examples of how such an idea could be implemented, starting with a single-player game in which the player's actions impact the characters and environment of other players enjoying the same single-player game. As the filing suggests, that would offer players some of the benefits of a traditional online world without a potential drawback inherent to massively multiplayer online games.

According to the patent application, "Those who want to play games that are more dynamic, not-based on Al and not-pre-scripted like multiplayer games, however, don't want to 'deal' with other people, appreciate the privacy it provides."

Nintendo offered more specific examples of the patent being put into use, such as a game with an economy affected by player demand for (and scarcity of) items. The company pointed to a purse in a fashion-centric game as one implementation of that, or perhaps oil in a global commodities trading game.

Another example given had one player spotting a pile of building materials in a virtual world and making a house out of it. Since the world is the same, the next player to happen along finds not a heap of lumber and tools, but a finished house (with the builder nowhere to be seen). Additionally, Nintendo's filing suggested that one player could gossip to a non-player character in the world, who would then pass it along to other players.

The application also covers one tweak to make the gameworld more traditionally multiplayer. If players have "friended" one another, they would be able to see each other and interact in the same environment.

The filing includes more eyebrow-raising information beyond the "massively single-player" concept. Specifically, it refers to an implementation of the idea on "a home video game system such as the Nintendo Wii 3D video game system, a Nintendo DS or other 3D capable interactive computer graphics display systems." While Nintendo has highly touted 3D in its 3DS handheld, the company publicly backed away from the idea of a 3D-capable successor to the Wii earlier this year, suggesting that the glasses currently required by 3D TVs would be a deal breaker for consumers.
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TheExplodingHead said:
Agreed. I do think the idea of it could be appealing in the most optimistic sense, and if pulled off well I'd probably buy it. Truth be told though, the last real MMO I played was WoW, about a year and a half ago. So I guess it's hard for me to dream the MMO dream with so little to base it on.

But I must admit, if Nintendo did this, and did it well...it could cement their online platform and be a great way to market that service. Probably just as good if not better than Smash online.
Click to expand...

Smash and Mario Kart are strong titles to push the online platform to a high, respectable level. Personally I've never played an MMO and DQX is on track to be my first one.

Going back to the Pokemon MMO, expansion packs would work similar to the handheld releases so that new Pokemon are introduced. Honestly I think Nintendo would need to start with with Blue/Red and work it's way through the handheld series as expansion packs. This way the handheld would get the new titles which should maintain interest in the handheld versions and the MMO would put a new spin on the older games and at the same time the foundation would already be there for Nintendo to work from when converting the older games to an MMO-style gameplay.
 
Agent Unknown said:
All of what you just said. I like to think of Chrono Trigger as the Star Wars of RPGs and it's rediculous it never got a proper Yuji Horii/Toriyama helmed sequel. Chrono Trigger is not just an incredible RPG, it has a permanent spot in my top three all time favorite SNES games along with Yoshi's Island and Super Metroid. The freedom of battle and exciting techs, the epic sci-fi/fantasy storyline, the unforgettable characters, the hand drawn visuals which still look beautiful today, the soundtrack, it's still just as fun and memorable after all these years.

Last year my brother got me a mint and complete copy of CT DS as a gift, so good to play it again. I love my SNES cart but the DS version is the perfect special edition and gets regular rotation in my 3DS. Can you imagine a Wii U sequel with hand drawn/cel shaded visuals and NFC support? Too bad Square apparently can't.
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Have you played Radiant Historia? It's probably the closest to a Chrono Trigger experience I've ever played since I played CT all those years ago.

And even if you don't find them in the same level, RH is still an amazing game in its own right.
 
Javier said:
Have you played Radiant Historia? It's probably the closest to a Chrono Trigger experience I've ever played since I played CT all those years ago.

And even if you don't find them in the same level, RH is still an amazing game in its own right.
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Cool, thanks for the recommendation, will definitely keep it in mind. I've also heard some folks feel Terranigma is similar to CT at least style wise?
 
bgassassin said:
Smash and Mario Kart are strong titles to push the online platform to a high, respectable level. Personally I've never played an MMO and DQX is on track to be my first one.

Going back to the Pokemon MMO, expansion packs would work similar to the handheld releases so that new Pokemon are introduced. Honestly I think Nintendo would need to start with with Blue/Red and work it's way through the handheld series as expansion packs. This way the handheld would get the new titles which should maintain interest in the handheld versions and the MMO would put a new spin on the older games and at the same time the foundation would already be there for Nintendo to work from when converting the older games to an MMO-style gameplay.
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Good ideas, and yeah MK and Smash will be huge online, no questions no problem. But for launch (sorry for not specifying) we probably won't see Smash/MK so the next biggest "Nintendo IP" to make a big online splash could potentially be Pokemon. It appeals to millions, wide age demo, new online components, at launch window could be a monster.

Here's one. How would Gaf react if Retro's new game at E3 was this new Pokemon?
 
Smiles and Cries said:
an Animal Crossing MMO would work better that a Pokemon one

I want to see games like Skyrim and other open worlds on WiiU not so much MMOs
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I fear for my free time if a Skyrim-like game ever came to the Wii U. My job, my family, my responsibilities - I can hear it all crumbling down already.

I wonder how long it would take for me to hit rock-bottom.. hmm..
 
Oh man, I almost missed out on CT talk. Chrono Trigger is my #1 RPG of all-time. Put me down for that kind of remake Agent.

TheExplodingHead said:
Good ideas, and yeah MK and Smash will be huge online, no questions no problem. But for launch (sorry for not specifying) we probably won't see Smash/MK so the next biggest "Nintendo IP" to make a big online splash could potentially be Pokemon. It appeals to millions, wide age demo, new online components, at launch window could be a monster.

Here's one. How would Gaf react if Retro's new game at E3 was this new Pokemon?
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I think that would be too overwhelming for launch, haha. I think it would be better served as a mid-gen title.

And I would seriously hate it if that was what Retro was working on. Save that IP for a different group and let Retro feed my inner dudebro.
 
HylianTom said:
I fear for my free time if a Skyrim-like game ever came to the Wii U. My job, my family, my responsibilities - I can hear it all crumbling down already.

I wonder how long it would take for me to hit rock-bottom.. hmm..
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I am so happy for people who have a life like you :P

but yeah I want a game like Skyrim with more adult themes too what I mean by that is The Witcher - that game is so dark
 
I know this is beyond the scope of this thread, but since most of everything here is rather pointless anyway, I may as well speak on it.

When Nintendo introduced the Wii-mote, it marked a revolution in control design. It took some of the most traditional features we've come to expect, along with all the new stuff, and put it in a modernized design. The Wii-mote can handle just about anything a standard controller can, while doing things literally impossible for them as well. The marriage of traditional + motion in some games is so hard to ignore for me at this point, and I would rather not go back to that style of control ever unless I have to.

Now we have the U-mote, which at the very least addresses issue I had just like the regular DS did. The second screen was so much more palatable for maps, inventory, etc that I simply couldn't stand going back to my console and having to constantly pause and whatnot. This doesn't even touch the innovative games that came from a touch display, which I won't really get into here. I mean, I tried to go back and play some of the older castle(metroid)vanias and wanted to pull my hair out. Not because they aren't good, but because I had been spoiled by convenience that didn't interfere with a game at all. I want the U-mote and I want it to stay forever, as a stand along screen on tabletop, or in the controller itself.

That said...now we have two controllers, Wii-mote and U-mote, that do two completely different things but ultimate exist together in unison if need be. Together, they can create something truly special, and I'm talking for traditional gaming in this sense. Now if traditional gaming sticks around, where do we go from the Wii/U-mote combination? More specifically, how do we bring these things together in the next generation of gaming(past Wii U, PS4, and 720)? I mean, assuming nintendo doesn't do something outrageous and begin the "I want gaming to go beyond the tv and encompass an entire room, free from a television" stage, what do they do? Make a new innovation free from both controllers, and then package three controllers with the next system?

I know this is batshit to even talk about right now, but it's the weekend. That's what weekends are for. Batshit.
 
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